TASKFORCE ∅ - This is my swamp

[888Flux]

But you are still wrong

Yeah I definitely could be. There aren't many results for "Can a 20" barrel penetrate ceramic Level III plates" so I think this experiment will be for the benefit of Kiwi science. I think it should as it all works out on paper anyways.

RMA has two product lines, ones that are NIJ certified and ones that are just rated as Level III using their own internal testing.

The previous level ratings for NIJ certifications are a bit wack and they actually just replaced them with newer standards this year

You might see "Level III+" which isn't an actual rating but instead just a marketing term meaning it is intended to stop intermediate cartridges at high velocity.

 

[Drip Torch]

Skills > gear

 

[Boney]

Skills > gear

Well yes, but people who have skills typically use appropriate gear. I have and still do surround myself with shooters of every conceivable skill rating. The people at the top aren't using Bear Creek Arsenal shit rods and airsoft optics for a reason.

I have never, ever, seen an impressive shooter using a PSA or similar as their beater or go-to gun. I have however seen many start with that, and mature into refined and dependable platforms. Cheap things are good because they are often a piece of the refinement process for people seeking capability. Regular users of combat related tools seek quality and dependability.

 

[The Stranger]

For shooting at people, SBRs are the current and future meta.

And just owning one is a felony unless you apply for and register it with the ATF which includes giving them your fingerprints. Both registering an SBR and owning one illegally is incredibly stupid.

 

[Boney]

And just owning one is a felony unless you apply for and register it with the ATF which includes giving them your fingerprints. Both registering an SBR and owning one illegally is incredibly stupid.

No. And given your takes on things posted in this thread it's difficult to take your thoughts on the subject seriously.

 

[The Stranger]

No. And given your takes on things posted in this thread it's difficult to take your thoughts on the subject seriously.

Just because we disagree about .300blk doesn't change the law retard. Go ahead and pick up a felony charge when you have to use your SBR in self defense and police figure out it's not registered

 

[Boney]

Go ahead and pick up a felony charge when you have to use your SBR in self defense and police figure out it's not registered

Or just bite the bullet and register it. Yeah, you are the governments bitch, you might as well be the hardest target bitch you can be. Also contributing to the common use argument, though I find that shakey.

Btw, the only person who can ask to see your stamp is an ATF agent. Your local cops can not legally compel you to show them that unless you live in one of the few states do have laws that basically act as reflections to the NFA, explicitly stating you can only own an SBR if it is legally in compliance with the NFA.

Outside of being hemmed up for something else, merely seeing an SBR is not probable cause to assume it is out of compliance. You literally have nothing to fear from Local as far as an SBR is concered.

You SHOULD still register it though, despite no one ever, ever, ever, being prosecuted for an illegal SBR unless there were other more serious charges in the case.

Just because we disagree

Actually you are just wrong.

 

[The Stranger]

Actually you are just wrong.

The only thing I was wrong about was the muzzle velocity of a 24" 5.56 barrel but guess what: .300blk at 16" delivers more energy than even the 24" bolt-action 5.56 in the chart I posted. Just because your autistic ass thinks one mistake throws out the whole perspective doesn't make it so.

 

[Boney]

300blk at 16" delivers more energy than even the 24" bolt-action 5.56 in the chart I posted

And that makes it... good? What is the logic here? Bigger bullet makes them more deader? If we are looking for anti-material properties and range we are using 7.62/.308. If we are looking for tight holds and intermeiate cartridges you won't beat 5.56 practically. .300blk is a hyper specialized suppressed SBR round. It was developed as such and only delivers when used in that capacity.

 

[The Stranger]

And that makes it... good? What is the logic here? Bigger bullet makes them more deader?

It means you get the stopping power of a 7.62 (because it literally is a 7.62) on an AR platform without having the worse recoil, magazine capacity, ammo weight, etc like an AR-10 has.

.300blk is a hyper specialized suppressed SBR round. It was developed as such and only delivers when used in that capacity.

It is literally almost identical to an AK-47 round. Do you mean to tell me a ballistic profile that's almost the same as the most common rifle in the world only delivers as a suppressed SBR?

Also, I never made the claim .300blk is superior to 5.56 - just that it's a viable option with a few advantages. This "5.56 IS THE ONLY ROUND FOR SOFT TARGETS" mentality is autistic as fuck.

 

[Boney]

It means you get the stopping power of a 7.62 (because it literally is a 7.62) on an AR platform without having the worse recoil, magazine capacity, ammo weight, etc like an AR-10 has.

What exactly do you mean by stopping power? Bullets can't knock people over, and bigger wound channels aren't a reliable way to get a neurological kill. As far as bleedout is concerened, 300blk isn't delivering enough, if any, advantage over modern match grade hollowpoints and bonded ammo vs .223/5.56 in the terminal ballistics to be worth the loss of a tighter trajectory and lighter logistical load at the ranges where bleedout matters. If we are shootingbat those ranges for some reason .308 is clearly the better .30cal.

Accuracy and number of hits on target take priority over caliber size concerning lethality.

It is literally almost identical to an AK-47 round. Do you mean to tell me a ballistic profile that's almost the same as the most common rifle in the world only delivers as a suppressed SBR?

Yes.

 

[The Stranger]

Yes.

So you are literally mentally disabled. I wont be wasting any more of my time on you

 

[Boney]

I wont be wasting any more of my time on you

Shame. It's been a good opportunity to dispel some commonly held misconceptions and errors new gun owners make.

The bottom line is all bullets kill people, but only a small handful are both optimal and viable. Which is why people who take this stuff seriously are boringly vanilla in their choices. The most popular and common calibers persist despite the myriad of options for a reason.

 

[Muskie]

It means you get the stopping power of a 7.62 (because it literally is a 7.62) on an AR platform without having the worse recoil, magazine capacity, ammo weight, etc like an AR-10 has.

It is literally almost identical to an AK-47 round. Do you mean to tell me a ballistic profile that's almost the same as the most common rifle in the world only delivers as a suppressed SBR?

Also, I never made the claim .300blk is superior to 5.56 - just that it's a viable option with a few advantages. This "5.56 IS THE ONLY ROUND FOR SOFT TARGETS" mentality is autistic as fuck.

A larger bullet doesn't necessarily mean more powerful when it comes to rifle projectiles at high velocity. In handgun cartridges or anything below about 2000 fps wounds are only caused by the path the bullet takes. At low speeds the bigger the bullet the greater the effect. At high velocities the bullet creates enough hydrostatic shock to tear flesh and the higher the velocity the greater the effect, to a point. Too much velocity and the bullet will disintegrate causing poor penenitration. A larger bullet will still have more effect then a smaller one IF velocities are the same but a slower and larger projectile may not be as powerful as a smaller faster one. Diffrent cartridge and bullet designs ooffer different levels of expansion and penetration depending on the intended use. 7.62x51 is a full power cartrage and will outperform an intermediate cartridge always unless the barrel is super short. I witnessed deer shot with both cartridges and my experience confirms this.

7.62x39 is a good round but the Russians replaced it for a reason 5.45 is lighter, has a flatter trajectory, and better balistic performance. It's success has more to do with the ubiquity of its host weapon then the characteristics of the round itself. In particular with fmj projectiles it tends to overpenitrate on people causing shallow wound tracks.

300blk is great in sbrs/braced pistols because it burns through its powder supply very quickly. A 10in in 300blk will drastically outperform a 10in 5.56 gun but the gap closses as the barrel gets longer. With 300blk projectile choice is important as at lower velocities it needs an expanding or fragmenting projectile to be most effective. The results are usually pretty good.

As for not registering sbrs I understand why someone wouldn't want to deal with the hassle but I don't think is as big a deal people make it out to be. If your sperging out on a lowcow fourm about guns with fellow retards my guess is your search history, youtube recommend, and credit card info are all full of gun shit. If all guns are banned tomorrow you are probably not much better off than everyone else. I am of the opinion that the more people that own and bring awareness to nfa stuff the better. $0 tax stamps would never have been possible 10 or 15 years ago because there weren't enough people who cared.

 

[Boney]

One note about hydrastatic shock is that that giant temporary wound cavity is only as good as the hollow space it closes into. Bigger, slower bullets are going to be pushing away more mass on contact, but with their lower speed less likey to actually be tearing that tissue apart, even if they make a big temporary wound cavity. Ideally of course it would be a very fast bullet making as big a hole as possible. Thats where your hollowpoints shine.

Put more stock into the deformation, fragmentation, and expansion of the round then the hydrastatic shock.

 

[The Stranger]

A larger bullet doesn't necessarily mean more powerful when it comes to rifle projectiles at high velocity. In handgun cartridges or anything below about 2000 fps wounds are only caused by the path the bullet takes.

110gr V-MAX stays over 2,000 fps out to just over 100 yards. 300blk beats the breaks off 5.56 at close ranges and pretending it doesn't is just fanboying for 5.56

 

[Boney]

110gr V-MAX stays over 2,000 fps out to just over 100 yards. 300blk beats the breaks off 5.56 at close ranges and pretending it doesn't is just fanboying for 5.56

You really just don't know what you are talking about. VMAX is a polymer ballistic tipped bullet. As long as it stays above its expansion threshold, you are going to get similar results in terminal ballistics. And the wound cavity it makes is going to be only marginal gains over say, 77gr TMKs.

 

[Muskie]

110gr V-MAX stays over 2,000 fps out to just over 100 yards. 300blk beats the breaks off 5.56 at close ranges and pretending it doesn't is just fanboying for 5.56

From Hornady,

300 Blackout 110 gr V‑MAX® Hornady BLACK®
Muzzle velocity: 2375 fps
Energy: 1378 ft/lbs

5.56 NATO 75 gr BTHP Match™ T2 Frontier®
Muzzle velocity: 2910 fps
Energy: 1410 ft/lbs

I know energy calcs aren't the whole story but I would hardly call this "beats the bricks". 5.56 is fine, 300blk is fine, at close ranges with comparable ammunition choices the difference is trivial.

 

[The Stranger]

5.56 is fine, 300blk is fine, at close ranges with comparable ammunition choices the difference is trivial.

All I've been arguing from the beginning is 300blk is perfectly viable so I'm glad we agree

similar results in terminal ballistics

>5.56 barrel is more than twice as long as 300blk barrel

 

[Boney]

All I've been arguing from the beginning is 300blk is perfectly viable so I'm glad we agree

Except the 5.56 is cheaper, with a flatter tragectory, lighter to carry, more readily available among peers, has more information put out on it, more optics with BDC options for it, and has more advanced ammo developed for it.

Its a no brainer.