Tabletop Roleplaying Games (D&D, Pathfinder, CoC, ETC.)

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Yaoi Huntress Earth said:
[*]There's no more Dark Powers Checks. Which is a downward spiral that your PCs can fall into if they commit acts of evil to the point they could become tragic villains (or even darklords) themselves. I guess that would be too triggering for SJW players. (Insanity checks are also gone.)
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Jesus fucking Christ, I expected them to completely gut the setting's themes, but I somehow missed that they could fuck up the mechanics as well.

This is truly just Scooby Doo, Forgotten Realms Edition now.
 
Jet Fuel Johnny said:
I knew they were going to get rid of Dark Powers checks in the name of player agency. Knew they were going to get rid of insanity checks too.

Did they ditch fear and horror checks and does Ravenloft still modify standard spells?
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Horror checks have been gotten rid of, but fear hasn't (and there's a new option for stress). And there's no modifying of standard spells. As for getting rid of dark powers checks, we can't let the players know that their actions have consequences, can we?

Corn Flakes said:
Jesus fucking Christ, I expected them to completely gut the setting's themes, but I somehow missed that they could fuck up the mechanics as well.

This is truly just Scooby Doo, Forgotten Realms Edition now.
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I know what you mean.
 
The big thing about Ravenloft WAS the player disempowerment.

Spells don't work right. Abilities don't work right. You've got an inhuman judge, juror, and executioner standing over you. You suffer more fear and horror and insanity.

But, ooooh, they still have fear checks and stress? Fucking stress?

Fuck it, why even play Ravenloft any more? Anything that made it cool, unique, challenging, and fun has been stripped away.

"Don't use tropes, except these tropes we like!"
"No Horror checks, although your character might get anxious or stressed!"
"All of your spells still work perfectly!"
"All your abilities still work perfectly!"
"You don't have consequences for your actions!"
"No sexism, racism, bigotry, ableism, or any other ism!"
"We gender swapped and added gay stuff to make it so you like this setting!"

Welcome to Butt Bandits on Vacation to Gothic Theme Park #42562
 
Jet Fuel Johnny said:
The big thing about Ravenloft WAS the player disempowerment.

Spells don't work right. Abilities don't work right. You've got an inhuman judge, juror, and executioner standing over you. You suffer more fear and horror and insanity.

But, ooooh, they still have fear checks and stress? Fucking stress?

Fuck it, why even play Ravenloft any more? Anything that made it cool, unique, challenging, and fun has been stripped away.

"Don't use tropes, except these tropes we like!"
"No Horror checks, although your character might get anxious or stressed!"
"All of your spells still work perfectly!"
"All your abilities still work perfectly!"
"You don't have consequences for your actions!"
"No sexism, racism, bigotry, ableism, or any other ism!"
"We gender swapped and added gay stuff to make it so you like this setting!"

Welcome to Butt Bandits on Vacation to Gothic Theme Park #42562
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That's a good way of explaining a theme in Ravenloft (disempowerment). I was wrong, there is some magical side effects for certain spell actions, but only in Hazlan (the rest of the domains don't really have a problem).

There's even rules about not using cliché accents (especially for marginalized characters) or basing stuff on stock characters from fiction.
 
While I had problems with the way Dark Powers checks were handled at times, I didn't want them fucking gone for crissake.
 
Capsaicin Addict said:
While I had problems with the way Dark Powers checks were handled at times, I didn't want them fucking gone for crissake.
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Most of the time it was DM who was either too lenient or too eager.

I had a DM try to give me a power's check (we ALWAYS failed them, he never even rolled) for having my Paladin draw his sword when a bunch of villagers yanked out their weapons and claimed we were all going to be burned at the stake for the glory of Azalin.

I quit that game pretty damn quick after that.
 
Jet Fuel Johnny said:
Most of the time it was DM who was either too lenient or too eager.

I had a DM try to give me a power's check (we ALWAYS failed them, he never even rolled) for having my Paladin draw his sword when a bunch of villagers yanked out their weapons and claimed we were all going to be burned at the stake for the glory of Azalin.

I quit that game pretty damn quick after that.
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Of all D&D settings out there, Ravenloft is definitely the poster child for "just because you can ask for a roll, doesn't mean you should ask for a roll". It really needs a GM who knows what they're doing.
 
Corn Flakes said:
Of all D&D settings out there, Ravenloft is definitely the poster child for "just because you can ask for a roll, doesn't mean you should ask for a roll". It really needs a GM who knows what they're doing.
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It's not an easy game to GM, especially for beginners. (I learned that the hard way.) But it is rewarding if you can do it right. (Which I also learned years later.)
 
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Yaoi Huntress Earth said:
It's not an easy game to GM, especially for beginners. (I learned that the hard way.) But it is rewarding if you can do it right. (Which I also learned years later.)
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It's not easy to get used to, either as a GM or a player.

The biggest thing it relies on is player trust in the GM and GM trust in the players being honest.

It's also that the GM HAS to be an antagonistic GM according to modern gaming theory, and adjudicate powers that are actually out to get the player characters. The players have to know it isn't personal, it isn't the GM out to get them, it's the very setting out to get their characters.

If you can't have that kind of maturity at the table, it's never going to work, because at times, with certain foes, it feels almost like the PC's are getting picked on.
 
Jet Fuel Johnny said:
It's not easy to get used to, either as a GM or a player.

The biggest thing it relies on is player trust in the GM and GM trust in the players being honest.

It's also that the GM HAS to be an antagonistic GM according to modern gaming theory, and adjudicate powers that are actually out to get the player characters. The players have to know it isn't personal, it isn't the GM out to get them, it's the very setting out to get their characters.

If you can't have that kind of maturity at the table, it's never going to work, because at times, with certain foes, it feels almost like the PC's are getting picked on.
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I fondly remember when I did a Taroka deck reading for my PCs and the reading told them that honesty was the best policy. So when they decided to lie to this woman about the fate of her daughter to spare her feelings, I had it bite them in the ass.
 
Yaoi Huntress Earth said:
I fondly remember when I did a Taroka deck reading for my PCs and the reading told them that honesty was the best policy. So when they decided to lie to this woman about the fate of her daughter to spare her feelings, I had it bite them in the ass.
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"Well, well, well, if it isn't the consequences of my own actions!" said no SJW, ever.

That said, I really can't overstate the importance of DM trust with these adversarial situations. There's a game where I am in one of those situations by my choice as a player thanks to taking some background traits for my character, and yeah, the DM does roll whenever my character does things to attract unwanted attention since you know, robbing a space casino that may or may not have been in bed with the space mafia (wink wink) tends to make certain people angry, and yeah, he's on the ass end of space now, but word will get back to them sooner or later the more grandstanding he does. Fortunately since we're good friends I'm looking forwards to the showdown since I know it will be justified, winnable (well, for a certain definition of that word given how the character operates), and have opportunities for character advancement, and I don't mean just XP there.
 
Jet Fuel Johnny said:
Most of the time it was DM who was either too lenient or too eager.

I had a DM try to give me a power's check (we ALWAYS failed them, he never even rolled) for having my Paladin draw his sword when a bunch of villagers yanked out their weapons and claimed we were all going to be burned at the stake for the glory of Azalin.

I quit that game pretty damn quick after that.
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The 3E Ravenloft Campaign Setting lays out pretty good requirements for powers checks, eliminating the whole 'fighters make powers checks every time they level' in favor of active deeds of commission for the most part.

A bunch of villagers yank out their weapons and declare you're going to be burned at the stake for the glory of Azalin? Well, let's see. They've just declared their fealty to a Darklord, an undead lich-king to be specific. Drawing a sword in response shouldn't even qualify. Self defense does not warrant a powers check either (Ravenloft Campaign Setting, p84).

The same book notes:
Use them wisely and where they serve the game. If overused, powers checks can slow the game to a crawl, as the DM meticulously rolls dice every time someone swats a fly or coughs in the vague direction of an old woman. Use the guidelines below to determine when you should incorporate them into the game.
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Your DM was a faggot.
 
What do you guys think of Ravenloft alternatives? And what's the best way to play the setting without going back to old (ie. broken) rules?

The only alt I know of are Paizo's Carrion Crown campaign for Pathfinder 1, but I've never read it.

Rippers (for Savage Worlds) has some gothic horror stuff in it, but it's a very different game. More about grafting monster parts onto yourself to gain their powers at a price.

I don't know how easy Ravenloft is to port to other systems like 5e or Labyrinth Lord.
 
Judge Dredd said:
What do you guys think of Ravenloft alternatives? And what's the best way to play the setting without going back to old (ie. broken) rules?

The only alt I know of are Paizo's Carrion Crown campaign for Pathfinder 1, but I've never read it.

Rippers (for Savage Worlds) has some gothic horror stuff in it, but it's a very different game. More about grafting monster parts onto yourself to gain their powers at a price.

I don't know how easy Ravenloft is to port to other systems like 5e or Labyrinth Lord.
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I haven't found the 3.5e to 5e conversion to be that hard to make, to be honest. I haven't done any full modules, and I haven't done it on the fly, but when my GM asked for a hand re-statting some monsters or traps it was usually pretty quick. Since you know what level the content is meant for, you get a feel for what 3.5e DC corresponds to what 5e bounded-accuracy-DC very quickly, and most monsters have an equivalent between editions you can use as reference.

I know I'm naturally inclined to these things (I've been the GM's assistant for a long time now), but I think anyone with even just an average head for numbers could pull it off. The main hassle is finding a way to keep these notes easily accessible so you can flip through the book and still have the new rules at hand. We just keep printouts shoved between the pages of the books.

The conversion that really sucked was AD&D to 3e, though. My GM tried doing that one for Spelljammer way back in the day (before I met him, actually), and according to him it was like pulling teeth.
 
Judge Dredd said:
What do you guys think of Ravenloft alternatives? And what's the best way to play the setting without going back to old (ie. broken) rules?
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Old broken rules are best.

BUT...

You can use Pathfinder's "Horror Adventures" (Not to be confused with Anthony Valterra's Whore Adventures) and the "Occult Adventures", then just do a little tweaking here and there.

But to be honest, even with the broken rules, updating or going back to the old Ravenloft rules is the best bet if you really want to do it. But that's just me.
 
Jet Fuel Johnny said:
Old broken rules are best.

BUT...

You can use Pathfinder's "Horror Adventures" (Not to be confused with Anthony Valterra's Whore Adventures) and the "Occult Adventures", then just do a little tweaking here and there.

But to be honest, even with the broken rules, updating or going back to the old Ravenloft rules is the best bet if you really want to do it. But that's just me.
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Horror Adventures actually covers fear, horror, madness, and corruption pretty darn well. Credit where it's due.

Although I think aberrant bloodline sorcerers should be less fazed by insanity effects than some. The bloodline has enough problems as is; throw it a damn bone.
 
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