- Joined
- Sep 7, 2019
you both are reading way too much into what was basically conceived via a /d/M's femdom/BDSM fetishes
Tabletop Roleplaying Games (D&D, Pathfinder, CoC, ETC.)
- Thread starter Surtur
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- Joined
- Sep 3, 2014
So I'm looking at said Pugilist and all I can say is it's hands down one of the worst written things I've seen yet. You desperately need to use RAI to get any idea on how it works.
One of the issues when they can't be arsed to give you tables or use at least one more example of a higher level character in play.
One of the issues when they can't be arsed to give you tables or use at least one more example of a higher level character in play.
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2020
Seriously. The Drow aren't meant to make sense, they're just antagonists. If you try to read too much into them, you end up with this old comic by Phil Folgio:
Just take them at face value and move on. Letting players play as drows was a mistake.
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2019
Basically. It's like Dragon said "here's an idea!" Yeah, like no one's ever homebrewed an idea like this before. The homebrew is probably MUCH more clearly defined, hell. If it's going to come from a source deemed official (or official ENOUGH, anyway) it needs way better RAW than that. That shit is just Ideas-Guy tier crap.
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2013
Looking over it by RAW you can have up to 4 attacks all at +17 (The way its worded pretty much states you can only take the ability for every extra attack you get from high BAB)
Buy by RAI you were most likely supposed to average the unmodified BAB values of any adjacent attack, so at level 20. It would be +17/+17/+12/+7, sacrificing 3 from your first attack to get +2 to each of your secondary attacks, since you always round down in D&D 3.5
Buy by RAI you were most likely supposed to average the unmodified BAB values of any adjacent attack, so at level 20. It would be +17/+17/+12/+7, sacrificing 3 from your first attack to get +2 to each of your secondary attacks, since you always round down in D&D 3.5
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2020
That is just kinda how most D&D races go. In its dungeon crawler days all you needed was "These guys are all bad shoot on sight", so that is all you got.
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2019
Makes sense, and means you can probably get away with what is basically a 4-level dip in Pugilist spaced out at the appropriate levels. Fill the rest with interesting stuff like Barbarian for Pounce and Rage, maybe Ranger for TWF and Magic Claw. Maybe make it 8 levels of Pugilist to load in Dungeoncrasher as well, and just do an Unarmed pounce-charger. Maybe a touch of Warblade and a couple levels of Bloodclaw Master for Superior TWF, or Fist of the Forest and add some natural attacks (and ditch armor).
(Kind of sad that even when they come up with a variant it STILL ends up being only REALLY suitable as a dip.)
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2018
It's like how every Pathfinder monk guide says 'use either Unchained or qinggong monk'.
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2019
D&D Drow go well beyond that. They are canonically incestuous at times, usually have heavy "corruption" themes (one of the War of the Spider Queen books establishes that Drow Matron Mothers like getting railed by glabrezu demons and birthing hideous monstrosities, and they consider these things to be blessings from Lolth), pregnant Drow women get incredible orgasms from having one fetus MURDER the other in the womb, a lot of their cities have booming prostitution operations where slaves of various species and genders are held in brothels after having their tongues cut out and sometimes being magically lobotomized... I shit you not when I tell you the Drow are a /d/M's wet-dream brought to full realization.
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2019
I read the conversation from a few pages ago regarding villains teleporting away and that got me wondering what would be a good escape plan for a BBEG? Something that doesn't make it feel like a huge middle finger to the players. Dimension door is obvious, maybe an item that anytime it is used it opens a doorway to certain planes except the location you land on is randomized? I feel I need less ideas that are 100% reliant on a spell or magic item.
If it helps, I play D&D 5e.
If it helps, I play D&D 5e.
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2019
Consider the obvious potential of minions. No self-respecting BBEG should enter the field without a contingent of soldiers backing them up, and maybe a backup mage to dispel snare spells. If the villain reaches the damage threshold, have them signal their retreat and send in some of those soldier to provide a meat shield as they make their getaway.
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2019
By now, @RomanesEuntDomus and the other players have probably figured out that the BBEG will do that. I would recommend (if DM allows) for him and the other players to "pass notes" about strategy for the next encounter to thwart any potential getaway. For someone going into a fight with the BBEG or a BBEG for the first time, it might serve them well to engage in info-gathering about their target. Outthink the DM. Coordinate with other players via notes if allowed. A little applied spying, perhaps baiting the BBEG into a situation where his avenues of escape are going to fail or at least make the DM really think on his feet, that kind of thing. Obviously try to make it make sense with your character and your party, maybe some in-character schmoozing with people connected to the BBEG. It really depends on your DM, for a lot of reasons - if he wants to railroad your ass you're probably getting railroaded.
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2014
I'd say one of the best ways to make a BBEG teleporting away not feel like a dick punch is to firmly establish that this isn't a "lol you thought you could defeat me HAW" dick move on Lord BadyGuy's part, but a an actual act of desperation. The BBEG was NOT expecting the party to get this far, and ends up expending valuable resources just to escape with his skin intact. Have whatever smug facade or persona he normally puts on completely breaks down, as he's reduced to flinging waves of his best men to their deaths to buy a few more seconds. Firmly making it feel like the players have struck a blow against the BBEG will at least help mitigate the feelings that the DM cheaped out.
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2020
I've always thought that the higher the level (and therefore the danger presented) by the adventurers in the party, the less likely the BBEG would be to want to engage them directly. After all, why risk your life when you have powerful lieutenants to do the dirty work for you?
Anyway, if the BBEG has to be present in some way for the donnybrook but also has to survive it... there are a few options. Even more so since NPCs don't need to use the same spells and abilities as the players. Tricks I've seen GMs using included:
- clones;
- possessing a minion and acting through them;
- astrally projecting into the field;
- phylactery-style items that allow for respawning;
- faking their own death;
- diving through some sort of damaging/debilitating field the BBEG is immune to but not the players (black dragon lairs with acid pools with hidden exits, for example);
- decoys/mirror images/physical illusions;
- drawing the party into a trap and then escaping;
- diving into another dimension (Hell is a popular option);
- summoning a quick horde of minions to distract the party; and,
- the classic: triggering the self-destruction of the villainous lair and escaping in the chaos.
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2019
If you really want to drive the point home: next time the BBEG shows up, there's something different about him. He seems to flinch and cringe a bit at certain stimuli, or seems to be a bit more desperate and reckless to really clobber you. Like maybe his failure to eliminate you last time had a price. One he really doesn't want to pay again.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2016
We knew before and prepared accordingly.
The attack happened in the dead of night, when we knew the guy was asleep, snuck into his lair and opened the combat literally with waking him up via an AoE damage and snare spell that filled the entire room.
I was barely able to get involved in the fight, once it went into melee, cause I was the target of DnD's patented bullshit "make a dumpstat saving-throw or become useless for at least an entire round"-abilities a few times.
We did everything we could as smartly as we could and the BBEG taunted us and poofed out of the room nonetheless cause we couldn't actually stop him from doing that. This wasn't a case of poor performance by the group, it was an instance of a DM making two poor decisions:
1) The DM should have set up the situation in such a way that it is a satisfying victory, even when the BBEG escapes. Like, we rescue a dungeon full of kids and virgins about to be sacrificed in the morning or taking away an important, irreplacable stronghold/set of equippement/bunch of servants. The BBEG is very good at charming people and putting them under his control, so even if he lost a neat little dwelling, all he has to do is look for another sugar-daddy to charm and then set up shop in his basement for whatever the fuck it is he does.
2) Making it look like the BBEG was (at best) mildly amused by our efforts to stop him and thus making it look like we weren't even a mild inconvenience to him. What better way to undermine the group's efforts than to make them feel like their hard fought battle was essentially just a ding-dong-ditch to the BBEG. I assume the DM wants to make that guy look cool and reserved, dominant. Like some sophisticated Bond villain, that never loses his calm and always has some awesome line on his lips about how strong he is. Too bad it has the opposite effect here and makes the group feel stupid for wasting their time on even trying to stop him.
Result: Next time BBEG raises his ugly mug, I'm going to ignore him and his shenanigans, unless there is a quest and a very large bag of money involved. Maybe I'll ignore him even then.
Frankly, I don't even know if it would feel satisfactory to kill this clown now, since it might not even feel earned then, if you know what I mean. Like, we as a group won't have done anything to earn killing him, it'll just be the next stop on the railroad for the BBEG to go into the forever box. The suspension of disbelief is severely cracked in my case.
The ironic thing is that you don't need this with a DM that would allow it and act accordingly. A DM that you have to "outthink", where you actually play against him, will just do whatever he wants. when he really wants to.
If the DM really wants his BBEG to escape, he won't be stopped by a smart strategy, as long as fudging numbers is enough to overcome that.
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2019
you're not wrong, but if you have a dick/dumb DM at some point it becomes a prerogative to say "fuck Rule 0" and get the DM to flip the table or chuck the DMG at you
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2014
Honestly I'd just walk out if he has the gall to use that BBEG again. Openly state what's the point since you'll just bullshit an escape to keep using him too, since it's clear you hate this and you will want to be open on that. That you coup de grace'd him in his bed should've murked him tbh, since that's an auto crit.
He should've figured by then that the dude's time was up. It ain't hard to come up with a new plot or arc Jesus Christ.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2016
Thankfully, the rest of the game is a lot smoother and a lot of fun, so it might seem worse than it is. This was just a massively bad call on the DM's part and I'll have a little chitchat with him about it.
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2018
My group is so annoyingly genre-savvy about this crap, I usually don't dare let them face the BBEG unless he's ready to fight to the death or has at LEAST three plans to escape ready to go.
Seriously. This group will shoot BBEGs in the face as soon as the monologue starts. They're not interested in his motives, or why he turned to evil. They're there to stop him and possibly take his stuff as punishment.
Seriously. This group will shoot BBEGs in the face as soon as the monologue starts. They're not interested in his motives, or why he turned to evil. They're there to stop him and possibly take his stuff as punishment.