Tabletop Roleplaying Games (D&D, Pathfinder, CoC, ETC.)

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Just more reasons to not play Beast.
I'm going to say that the real problem with Beast is and will be the presentation. Making a crossover focused gameline was never going to be easy but they shot themselves in the foot early on and the LGBTQ subtext to Beasts in the early drafts was never fully dragged out and exorcised. As antagonists, Beasts are fantastic, and in the right group I can see them as a good NPC friend for a group of vampires, or changelings, or werewolves or whatever. It's when you try and make Beasts a stand alone game that things get bad because you realize that there's no real reason for Beasts to adhere to their codes in a vacuum. This makes it harder to think about Beasts as a thing that could survive in the World of Darkness because solo Beasts are things that nearly every game line has a reason to destroy on sight.
 
Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of living Nightmares, but it was done so wrong. Then you add in all the bullshit the creator added to make certain people happy it just ruined what could have been a good game.

If you remove the fluff and just take the crunch of the books you can have a good game, but I find theses "beasts" make better NPC villains for Hunter characters. I would prefer playing something like Wraith or even Orpheus instead.
 
I'm going to say that the real problem with Beast is and will be the presentation. Making a crossover focused gameline was never going to be easy but they shot themselves in the foot early on and the LGBTQ subtext to Beasts in the early drafts was never fully dragged out and exorcised. As antagonists, Beasts are fantastic, and in the right group I can see them as a good NPC friend for a group of vampires, or changelings, or werewolves or whatever. It's when you try and make Beasts a stand alone game that things get bad because you realize that there's no real reason for Beasts to adhere to their codes in a vacuum. This makes it harder to think about Beasts as a thing that could survive in the World of Darkness because solo Beasts are things that nearly every game line has a reason to destroy on sight.

I really hated how the original sourcebook villianized "Heroes" (aka the normal people who just wanted to kill these living nightmares) by comparing them to Gaston from Beauty & the Beast and implying that they're all cishet white manpigs who hate trannies.
 
I really hated how the original sourcebook villianized "Heroes" (aka the normal people who just wanted to kill these living nightmares) by comparing them to Gaston from Beauty & the Beast and implying that they're all cishet white manpigs who hate trannies.
Heroes aren't normal though, they're basically Beasts that didn't get Devoured or dream as deep.
 
See, I didn't get that. I might've been basing it off of an older edition or something. I do remember another thinly veiled reference to GamerGate though
They had something something "they're like MRA's" something something. I ignored it.
 
Beast is one of the myriad reasons why I don't use any Second Edition New World of Darkness/Chronicles of Darkness material whatsoever and just stick to 1e NWOD with modified fluff (as well as 1e and 2e Classic WoD, depending on what mood I'm in)

White Wolf used to be cool in the 90's, but when Justin Achilli and Satyros Brucato rose to prominence around 1999 or so, everything went to shit. Metaplot went off the rails, specific themes and narratives were shoved down the fandom's throat, and everything became a hell of a lot more pretentious.

Onyx Path has been an SJW shitshow from the beginning and the new White Wolf is an edgelord-fest that is twenty years too late, to say nothing of the fact that Martin Ericsson is an edgelord sperg and the worst kind of WoD fan. He's pretentious, edgy, controversial for the sake of controversy, and a Goth burnout. It's like he's every bad stereotype of the WoD fandom rolled into one Steven Segal look-alike.

Paradox making Martin Ericsson the head of White Wolf is a lot like if Sega put Chris in charge of the Sonic franchise.
 
Speaking of opp, a few of the devs that were recently released by the company are complaining on social media about getting severely short short changed by the company.

Being lolopp, they have stated that the devs never turned in paperwork to get payment for services rendered.


Paradox making Martin Ericsson the head of White Wolf is a lot like if Sega put Chris in charge of the Sonic franchise.

At least the arms would stay the same color...
 
Speaking of opp, a few of the devs that were recently released by the company are complaining on social media about getting severely short short changed by the company.

Being lolopp, they have stated that the devs never turned in paperwork to get payment for services rendered.




At least the arms would stay the same color...


Is there a list of people removed?
 
Is there a list of people removed?

No, but the two exalted writers/devs Holden and Hatewheel. Changeling the lost 2ed writer/Dev David Hill are the ones making the complaints.

Hill's is interesting in the fact that he says opp held his game up in development since August so they could find someone to replace him. (granted he quit opp over NuWw hiring Zack). Also he wrote the bulk of the game (which is under going rewrites) but won't be paid for his efforts (some 20k worth of words) and since it was contract work he can't call it something else and just publish it himself.
 
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Well least we have other companies out there. I haven't seen WotC fuck up this much, or Paizo. Seems like it's the content creators nobody really cared about though making the complaints so could it just be an ego thing? That's been creeping into the business over the past decade or so.
 
I've heard Shadowrun releases of late have been pretty error prone rush jobs.

A lot of it though lies in opp's habit of kickstaring everything under the sun, when you raise to a quarter to half a million on your big name projects and then word leaks out that your short changing people you gotta ask where the money goes.
 
I've heard Shadowrun releases of late have been pretty error prone rush jobs.

A lot of it though lies in opp's habit of kickstaring everything under the sun, when you raise to a quarter to half a million on your big name projects and then word leaks out that your short changing people you gotta ask where the money goes.

After the core book I really stopped bothering with their books. Quality just wasn't there in terms of rules for me or quality of the physical book. I swear it was printed in India.

Sometimes you hear about some companies short changing people and it's just a lie made bu devs who got ass hurt because of some shake up in the company, other times it's real because the company doesn't know how to handle funds. Look at how the people behind CryEngine are doing. There's always news about them not paying people for months.
 
. I swear it was printed in India
That's why I've gotten very careful about ordering off drive thru rpg, a lot of the old books are just scans and they don't do anything to touch up or balance the pages before they send then off to a third party printer.
 
I've seen some current RPG books where pages will fall out after the first year, but I've had Paizo books that are still in good shape after five years. Obvious the Chinese perfect binding book binding company knows what they're doing. Same goes with the company WotC had for 3.5 books.
 
Finally finished reading beast the primordial and the whole thing feels like a misfire, as though someone missed the entire point of beuty and the beast's Gaston vs Beast as a clever subversion of the cosmetic aspect of heroes vs monsters, completly failing to not that if you ignore the cosmetic Beast is obviously the protagonist on the road back to humanity/heroism and gaston the monster
It really does feel like their should have been a book about Heroes in the classical sense as a mythical heroes with a onyx path spin with the beasts being the antagonist and this shitty book is the supplementy antagonist book. Which would have been a far more interesting venue for exploration than CoD/WoD 'inhuman predator as protagonist' has already explored multiple times. At the very least the beasts should be spawned by the heroes due to some sort of failure on the heroes behalf-a beowulf type creating a Tyrant dragon when he aquires and abuses his secular power, Batman spawning the Ravenger Joker due to his neglect of everything but his war Which would ad a far more tragic undercurrent to the proceedings especially if the monster was once a loved one. Imagine the pain generated by a lover turned devil or a child turned fiend. You could even takes this a step further as the heroes negative traits build up he becomes more a villain than the villain while the beast gradually assumes more and more noble traits, perhaps reaching the point after some titanic struggle where the Beast usurps the role of hero and the Hero assumes the mantle of the beast he once created by accident- aformentioned Gaston and the beast being the obvious example. Angels Daniel Holtz vs the now redemed protagonist for another.

It also doesnt help pretty much everything the beasts do is done elsewhere. These damned things bring nothing new to the table.
 
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Finally finished reading beast the primordial and the whole thing feels like a misfire, as though someone missed the entire point of beuty and the beast's Gaston vs Beast as a clever subversion of the cosmetic aspect of heroes vs monsters, completly failing to not that if you ignore the cosmetic Beast is obviously the protagonist on the road back to humanity/heroism and gaston the monster
It really does feel like their should have been a book about Heroes in the classical sense as a mythical heroes with a onyx path spin with the beasts being the antagonist and this shitty book is the supplementy antagonist book. Which would have been a far more interesting venue for exploration than CoD/WoD 'inhuman predator as protagonist' has already explored multiple times. At the very least the beasts should be spawned by the heroes due to some sort of failure on the heroes behalf-a beowulf type creating a Tyrant dragon when he aquires and abuses his secular power, Batman spawning the Ravenger Joker due to his neglect of everything but his war Which would ad a far more tragic undercurrent to the proceedings especially if the monster was once a loved one. Imagine the pain generated by a lover turned devil or a child turned fiend. You could even takes this a step further as the heroes negative traits build up he becomes more a villain than the villain while the beast gradually assumes more and more noble traits, perhaps reaching the point after some titanic struggle where the Beast usurps the role of hero and the Hero assumes the mantle of the beast he once created by accident- aformentioned Gaston and the beast being the obvious example. Angels Daniel Holtz vs the now redemed protagonist for another.

It also doesnt help pretty much everything the beasts do is done elsewhere. These damned things bring nothing new to the table.

Well Scion exists still even if no one is working on any material and Part Time Gods.
 
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