Tabletop Roleplaying Games (D&D, Pathfinder, CoC, ETC.)

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The first TPK was R&D, you know, the Paranoia division that gives you items in the beginning,
And that's why most pre-written missions send them to the briefing first, to minimise their odds of dying due to R&D related PC behaviour.
I had a rule that the Computer was so dumb and insane it didn't realize the commie traitor mutants it had just executed were the same people as the clones.
Pretty certain that's standardised, following the "logic" that the Computer would never do something like create a clone that's a commie mutant traitor.

On the Paranoia topic the newest version also makes character generation adversarial. Players take it runs to pick a skill to start at +1. The player clockwise to them now has that skill at -1 and then picks another which they get at +1 and the next player gets at -1. No-one gets to replace a skill they have a minus in with a positive modifier.
After a circuit then a new player is picked to start and pick a skill at +2. Clockwise player to them gets it at -2 and then picks a skill and so on.
This goes all the way to +/-5, with rules in place for if a skill already has minuses (moving to the next skill down on the sheet instead). So you can be thwarted in your desire to have a stealth capable character by the actions of another player for example. Something the GM is encouraged to make clear and potentially bring up after someone fails rolls because of their penalties.
 
It's extremely easy to kill the entire party in the mission briefing. Just have one of the players say even a mildly suspect thing to the Friend Computer, and there we go. Everybody dead, deploying clones.
That was the second TPK in the mission briefing.

The first was I had R&D give them a number of "useful" devices including one shaped like a grenade with a big red button on it and a label on it saying "DO NOT PUSH BIG RED BUTTON." I think you can figure out how that went.

Seriously creating absolutely bullshit R&D items was great. I'd usually throw in one that was incredibly useful and actually necessary to win, like I'd let anyone get to the end and win.

Most TPKs were one party member would denounce another as a commie mutant traitor, and then the other one would accuse the first back, and then everyone would accuse each other. It was always like a full retard version of prisoner's dilemma.
 
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I haven't done anything Tabletop in what feels like decades, I'm hesitant to ask but is there's anything I should know or do to really get back into attempting to run a game (GM or player)? I've kept up with some of the shenanigans either from this thread or general research so I know what to avoid but actually running something is a bridge too far for various personal reasons, but I've been able to find more time these days.
 
I haven't done anything Tabletop in what feels like decades, I'm hesitant to ask but is there's anything I should know or do to really get back into attempting to run a game (GM or player)? I've kept up with some of the shenanigans either from this thread or general research so I know what to avoid but actually running something is a bridge too far for various personal reasons, but I've been able to find more time these days.
I might be misunderstanding your question, are you looking to DM or just play? Because you seem to be asking about both, but then you said that running a game was too much for you...or maybe it isn't. I dunno. I'm just going to answer both to the best of my ability.

Regardless of whether you're DMing or not, the hardest part remains the same as ever: finding enough warm bodies to get a game going. If you've got a decent-sized friend group that is open to the idea, you've cleared the first hurdle. If not, you're going to have to start looking, and that can be one hell of a crapshoot. Your best bet might be to check out your local tabletop gaming stores and see if you can find some likeminded individuals, maybe even find a game that's looking for another player. But beware of weirdos, you'll need to do some vetting for sure. And there are always online games you can try, but that's its own can of worms.

Assuming you have gotten a group together, odds are pretty good that they're gonna want to run D&D 5e and probably nothing else. Maybe some of them are still vehemently against it post-OGL debacle, but even then they'll likely only want to run PF. Getting people to run other systems is like pulling teeth. Not an issue if that's what you want to play too, but if not...well, hope you like D&D or a copy of it.

Ideally you can also find someone to DM, but if no one else is interested, then it will probably fall on your shoulders as the one who's trying to organize this in the first place. If that's the case, know that it really isn't all that hard. It seems daunting at first, but it actually is a lot of fun being the one behind the screen and torturing your players building a world for your players to explore. Start with a pre-written adventure to get your feet wet, make sure you have a good working knowledge of mechanics, and go nuts. If you do your job right, your players won't know you were flying by the seat of your pants.

Can't really think of much else in the way of advice. Like I said, getting a group together is often the toughest part of running tabletop. The second toughest is scheduling.
 
Can someone explain to me why 5E tourists and fake geek fans hate Greyhawk so much? Greyhawk is the setting that helps inspire He-man. Fake geek hipsters and SJWs types still worships the 80s, the fact that the pop culture 80s couldn't exist without Ronald Reagan's de-regulations. I get them hating Dark Sun, Oriental Adventures and Birthright. But what's up with all the anti-Greyhawk faggots? Ignoring the damage of controlling Hasbro/WOTC, and shilling woke politics, I find the easiest way to tell if a YouTube channel asshole cancer or not if they hate Dark Sun or Greyhawk. Is it all because Greyhawk was Gary Gygax's baby? It's trendy to hate anything Gary Gygax cared about like we saw with Walt Disney.

Besides what already been said, Greyhawk is, ironically, not DnD enough in their eyes.

At some point, probably during 3.0, DnD had become completely incestous, divorsed from fantasy at large, and reduced to endlessly regurgiating its own tropes. Furthermore, people not content with that fucked off to Pathfinder, which at least promised to rekindle the kitchen sink megacrossover spirit of early DnD (but IMO did not deliver due to being too tied to Paizo's staple adventure structure), or elsewhere. 5E, on the other hand, explicitly tried to be the most DnDest edition of DnD which ever DnDed. Ditching deviations from the formula introduced by 4E was one of its major selling points (and though 4E's mechanics sucked donkey balls to the point it is the one edition of DnD I absolutely refuse to play, I'd say setting-wise it was a step in the right direction). Those among its fanbase who have actual thought processes, instead of mere consoomer reflexes, have liked it for this exact reason.

But Greyhawk is far too different with DnD as it became codified over time. If only, as mentioned, it had not been updated for decades. For an average 5E player it probably feels only a bit less foreign than Dark Sun.
 
Apparently in 5.5e you can start with a feat on top of a bunch of other things that just seem to feed into 5e being where you can make your characters superheroes.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=0TmWjJxEF5Q

But DnD characters had always been superheroes...

As for myself, these changes strike me as directionless fiddling for the sake of fiddling. On a casual glance it seems to be a tabletop equivalent of a "rebalance" (aka your meta character is now obsolete) patch.
 
But DnD characters had always been superheroes...

As for myself, these changes strike me as directionless fiddling for the sake of fiddling. On a casual glance it seems to be a tabletop equivalent of a "rebalance" (aka your meta character is now obsolete) patch.
That reminds me of the videos of DnD content creators on youtube shorts and tiktok going full soyjak over some kind of character build they saw on reddit that’s just meta building. I remember someone bringing one to my table and showing me the video on his phone. It was a variant human tempest cleric with elemental adept and I’m like haha, black slime.
 
If you want a good tabletop gaming Youtube channel, Lord of Iron covers mech Fiction, miniature games and AD&D. His Dark Sun video wasn't even that political beyond pointing out the left eating their own and far-left white knights for corporations. A Twitter tranny tried to attack him in the comments, yet he never brought about transgenderism once in his dark Sun video.
 
That reminds me of the videos of DnD content creators on youtube shorts and tiktok going full soyjak over some kind of character build they saw on reddit that’s just meta building. I remember someone bringing one to my table and showing me the video on his phone. It was a variant human tempest cleric with elemental adept and I’m like haha, black slime.
A lot of minmaxing and metagaming comes down to purely theoretical scenarios that probably won't come up in most games. Sure, you have the potential to one-hit-kill a tough monster, but probably not until higher levels that your party won't even reach before the campaign fizzles out. Even if you do somehow reach the level to make your OP build you found on Reddit work, you still have to actually get the dice to work in your favor. And all of that is assuming that your DM goes along with your build, especially if you're pulling something ridiculous like a two- or three-way multiclass (or God forbid, more).

Or put another way, no plan survives contact with the enemy, and in this case, the enemy is both in-game and out.

Personally, I do think that putting some thought into your character's build is important because you want to be able to perform well to help your party. And I know that some people really do like obsessing over eking out every possible bit of potential from their characters. But at the end of the day, it's all about what you think is going to be the most fun, so roll with whatever you like (as long as the DM approves).
 
So dumb question I have to ask, right? For those of you who played D&D BX/BECMI and AD&D 1e/2e, did you guys really play D&D the way the OSR movement says it was meant to be played? I keep hearing about how their way is the right way to play D&D, yet I also hear people from Dragonsfoot claiming that’s BS.
 
Besides what already been said, Greyhawk is, ironically, not DnD enough in their eyes.
Heresy. To this day I still think of Greyhawk and Blackmoor when I think of D&D and beyond. In fact I had the brown cover 60 or so page books for both as well as Eldritch Wizardry. Greyhawk, I believe, introduced the original psionics system that was totally broken, which I replaced with one based on the Deryni from the Katherine Kurtz series of the same name, and I believe came from Dragon Magazine.
 
A lot of minmaxing and metagaming comes down to purely theoretical scenarios that probably won't come up in most games. Sure, you have the potential to one-hit-kill a tough monster, but probably not until higher levels that your party won't even reach before the campaign fizzles out. Even if you do somehow reach the level to make your OP build you found on Reddit work, you still have to actually get the dice to work in your favor. And all of that is assuming that your DM goes along with your build, especially if you're pulling something ridiculous like a two- or three-way multiclass (or God forbid, more).

Or put another way, no plan survives contact with the enemy, and in this case, the enemy is both in-game and out.

Personally, I do think that putting some thought into your character's build is important because you want to be able to perform well to help your party. And I know that some people really do like obsessing over eking out every possible bit of potential from their characters. But at the end of the day, it's all about what you think is going to be the most fun, so roll with whatever you like (as long as the DM approves).
That’s why I like to talk with the players beforehand and get an idea of what they’re bringing to the table. You don’t want to bring a terrible character that’s not going to be any help to the party, but bringing something that’s going to spoil the fun for everyone else is also just as bad.
 
So dumb question I have to ask, right? For those of you who played D&D BX/BECMI and AD&D 1e/2e, did you guys really play D&D the way the OSR movement says it was meant to be played? I keep hearing about how their way is the right way to play D&D, yet I also hear people from Dragonsfoot claiming that’s BS.
No, because home games were a lot more muddled and piecemeal. You'd get a lot of your gaming practices through playing with other people and reading the sources you had available to you. Everyone had the same AD&D core books (kids would play some Basic, but mostly move on to AD&D because that was the "real" game for grownups), but the rest would be based on what you'd pick up from a game store, a magazine, or someone giving you his game books once he left the hobby. Your table would be different from the other five tables in your town, and they could be very different from tables across the country. The great unifier of the Internet wasn't there. Sometimes, someone in your circles would get exposed to something utterly new and different by going to a con or visiting relatives, and sometimes those ideas would spread as people would pick it up. It was local and organic.

The OSR is a best of collection of these practices. It has less cultural variety, but a more coherent core and a more conscious decision about "this is cool" and "this sucks". It resembles the better AD&D games we used to play, but those often didn't have much conscious thought behind them, they just sort of happened. They were more irregular. And there were a lot of really crappy games that were probably "legit", but which would be rejected by the OSR people with good reason. People also gradually stopped playing OSR style games as the hobby changed. The OSR is all hindsight, which we didn't have.

IDK though. As I understand, the OSR itself became contaminated by all kinds of Caltech freakshit and troonery, so this may no longer be true.
 
So dumb question I have to ask, right? For those of you who played D&D BX/BECMI and AD&D 1e/2e, did you guys really play D&D the way the OSR movement says it was meant to be played? I keep hearing about how their way is the right way to play D&D, yet I also hear people from Dragonsfoot claiming that’s BS.

The idea that these games are meant to be played a certain way only exists because of the internet. It never occurred to a bunch of 15 year olds in the late 80's that DnD was meant to be played a certain way. We just played. Our 2e group liked hack and slash dungeon crawling. We handwaved everything else, because tracking time or material spell components was too boring for a 15 year old to care about.
 
So dumb question I have to ask, right? For those of you who played D&D BX/BECMI and AD&D 1e/2e, did you guys really play D&D the way the OSR movement says it was meant to be played? I keep hearing about how their way is the right way to play D&D, yet I also hear people from Dragonsfoot claiming that’s BS.
I don't even know what their right way is because I don't care about the opinions of terminally online faggots that weren't even a fluid back when I played.
 
I am getting out of this hobby. For two years I've been attempting to run games and now face the conclusion that there are no functional adult human beings in the hobby. Or more fairly, there are but they are scattered around the world in such sparse numbers that getting several of them together to play is nigh impossible.

I can find younger people who will maybe play and are only mildly insane as everybody is below the age of twenty. But anybody I've found over that age that still plays has either such major personality dysfunctions or sits there like a giant fucking lump waiting for their skill check to come up giving every impression they're there because they literally have nothing else to do in life, that I give up.

It's a fun hobby. It's creative, it engages the brain, it is a source of endless humour and can even stir some genuine emotion when done well and with people who are engaged. It is also like trying to bake a cake with no eggs. I have all the recipes but no ingredients. I give up, I'm done. No cake.

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You killed the players? Not the characters? Big difference. LOL
TBF, I'm close to that point.
 
So dumb question I have to ask, right? For those of you who played D&D BX/BECMI and AD&D 1e/2e, did you guys really play D&D the way the OSR movement says it was meant to be played? I keep hearing about how their way is the right way to play D&D, yet I also hear people from Dragonsfoot claiming that’s BS.

The short answer is "no".

The long answer:

(1)There were wildly different approaches in these editions, which we did not even realize back then, on the virtue of being teens with limited access to game books (Internet already existed, but you couldn't get the entire DnD library on demand for free yet), who scarcely understood the differences between various editions available. The Slavelords adventure series which was intended to be a stage for a tabletop sport, with parties competing for the best final score at conventions and the Dragon Lance adventure series, which involved characters more or less following the script, defined by the books' plot, could not be farther apart in terms of design philosophy, despite being published roughly at the same timeframe. The former is more associated with BX/BECMI, the latter with AD&D, but again, they existed in parallel for a time, even if with AD&D2e the latter became more prominent, and most of the publications catered to it.

My early RPG experiences were more informed by the latter, story/narrative-focuses approach.

(2)That said, the general course I observed was green GMs running things entirely by the book at first, with PCs dying to random encounter tables and whatever. Then everyone found that not fun, because running games with emergent stories that challenge players rather than character stats required better DMs and players than dumb teens whom we were, as well as following unspoken assumptions, which were in effect at the designers' tables, but weren't effectively translated into actual game design. Then groups gravitated towards the "telling heroic fantasy stories" side of DnD. Which early editions enabled better out of the box - characters with a few levels under their belt and optional rules which everyone I knew used (like death at -10 hp) could do a tolerable job running through most fantasy plots. The best, if imperfect, cure for the game turning into "guess DM's script" we found back then was making the DM's seat rotating for the same party.

(3)I note, though, that OSR fanboys don't seem to ever recognize the fact that early editions were by no means monolythic. At least their manifesto articles do not, I haven't engaged in personal discussions with them. Together with their unhealthy attachment to legacy game mechanics, they impress me as a "old good new bad" crowd in the same vein as dumb nostalgiafags who lap up heavily pixelated graphics in modern indie games.

In fact, a lot of their statements also are just fucking retarded and betray either lack of in-depth knowledge of older editions, or wilfull blindness to many aspects of them. Case in point, the first OSR-hyping article that Google provides.

"The world isn’t split into levels for you to work through, and dragons are truly dangerous - if you find one in a dungeon, it will likely kill you."

Given that OD&D had explicit rules for slapping dragons and making them your bitches (sure, it wasn't an easy task, but not outlandishly difficult either, the trend of making dragons Cooler Than You only began with AD&D monster manual), I question how authentic their old-schoolness is.

"You’re not medieval superheroes, which is what a lot of OSR fans felt D&D was turning into. Instead, you’re regular folk brave or stupid enough to make your living through looting long-lost tombs and labyrinths."

Nothing says "regular folk" like level progression in itself, and supplments extending it basically to high heaven, and combar rules for gods, and an actual adventure where you kill Lolth and take her stuff.

"Firstly, old-school games are much more loose and free with rulings. There aren’t rules for every encounter of move - and that’s okay. Rather than looking up how to fight underwater or if your climbing speed would allow you to make a specific jump, DMs just rule in the moment."

Having rules for fairly common situations, like fighting underwater or making long jumps is the reason to run DnD, instead of freeform, you fuckwit. I am saying this as someone who had been mostly DMing for decades. Having good rules for a given situation offers consistency to my judgment and offers players a framework to encourage their creativity, because they won't have to guess whether I'm going to reward them for their unconventional approach or punish them for their stupidity. Yes, there always will be edge cases, and bad rules can be worse than no rules, but that's why you should strive to make your rules good.
 
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I am getting out of this hobby. For two years I've been attempting to run games and now face the conclusion that there are no functional adult human beings in the hobby. Or more fairly, there are but they are scattered around the world in such sparse numbers that getting several of them together to play is nigh impossible.
They exist in bigger numbers than you think, but because they're functional adults they either don't need more people in their group or they know better than to recruit random people from their FLGS.

I've been having a similar issue where my long running group has lost people over the years due to work, unrelated drama, or the rest of us realizing someone was a worthless bum and now we can't actually find anyone to fill the gaps because the vast majority of people at nearby gaming shops are unwashed wargamers or have critical role induced brain rot. I would tell you it gets better if you keep trying, but it's just pure luck.
 
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