Tabletop Roleplaying Games (D&D, Pathfinder, CoC, ETC.)

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Candela Obscura is even funnier than that; the base setting you're in is actually effectively an integralist fascist "republic" whose religion would be far more filled with hate and pogroms against extramarital affairs and homosexuality. They actually made a religion that is more restrictive than even the strictest salafist view of Islam.

They don't realize that this is what they made, but that's what the faith they created for the main setting, focused around a Father, Mother, and Child, would result in. They don't realize that things like brothels and gay marriage would be cardinal sins due to the basic construct of their faith. They also accidentally made blood a big deal when ripping off Bloodborne for this shit, so no, this isn't metaphorical.

OOPS THE SOCIETY IS SO BASED IT COULD BE USED TO MELT FUCKING BODIES!

The problem is despite that it's still boring as shit.
 
RPGs are social
>introverted nerds
>gamestores that have to tell people to take a fucking shower
>convention randoms
:stress:

Simply slapping down an X card on the table means nothing gets discussed and nobody has learned.
so if someone storms out, then her SO follows to check up on her, how much do you think gets discussed? how much game happens that session? how much fun does the rest have afterwards? "what have we learned?"

seriously, I get the impression some people here think the x-card is some reverse uno card players suddenly spring on the GM to blow up games or some shit. obviously you don't use that shit with you group that played together for years.
you put that upfront on the table, tell people to use it if they want/need, ask if there's anything they have issue with and that's it. 99.999% of games no one will touch it, usually because they don't have to, but since you simply don't have the time to always properly vet people and it only takes one joker going into detail how he's abusing that halfling prostitute he hired (ironically of course) in a fucking public game I much rather have people point at that card before sitting there and say nothing. not everyone is outspoken or outright confrontational, especially when it comes to strangers. this has fuck all to do with "gatekeeping the hobby" or other retarded shit, but comes down to your table. as if everybody immediately starts out at that super extroverted roleplayer that perfectly fits into every group, jfc...
it also filters any other retard that immediately goes "hurr sjw gm" that hasn't even been sitting at the fucking table for 1 minute before they get even more retarded an hour in, plus all the other tards trying to abuse it.

for people that are all about "I can use whatever at my table", being this overly sensitive over a fucking card is hilarious. :story:

TLDR: it's a tool that requires the right situation and use case like any other fucking tool.
 
Oh, but Corn Flakes, you bowl of amaizeing unfrosted wisdom! Do we just leave these people out?
[Nordic guy saying "Yes."]
TL;DR - Lorraine Williams concocted a scheme where the TSR entity borrowed money to pay her cash royalties on a product that was never intended to sell.
And some people say bitches aren't good at math.
 
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Lorraine Williams was smart. She was an accountant, so she understood that what matters is whose balance sheet debt is on, and who gets paid in cash. When she understood the deal TSR had with Random House, she figured out the play. Since she was both owner & CEO of TSR and the Buck Rogers property, she could write contracts with herself ensuring that the liabilities stayed with TSR, while cash went to her, personally.
  1. Random House paid TSR cash advances on books delivered. This money had to be paid back if the books didn't sell. In other words, deliver $1000 of books, get $1000 cash plus a $1000 liability.
  2. Williams wrote a contract with herself to have TSR pay her a royalty on all Buck Rogers material printed, not sold. This was a royalty, not a cash advance, so Williams did not incur a liability. IOW, no refunds.
  3. Williams then had TSR print as much D&D material as it could, with minimal quality testing, defer as many invoices as possible (e.g. not paying their printer), and print tons of Buck Rogers shit, so that it could max out cash on hand in order to pay herself her salary, bonuses, and Buck Rogers royalties.
  4. When the financial house of cards collapsed in the late 1990s, all the liabilities were on TSR's and Random House's balance sheets. All the cash was in Williams' personal bank account.
TL;DR - Lorraine Williams concocted a scheme where the TSR entity borrowed money to pay her cash royalties on a product that was never intended to sell.
That's a good point. Williams' reign is viewed through TSR's eventual failure and the massive bad vibes that surrounded the company, but this scheme was incredibly profitable, especially due to the peripherals. TSR was a pioneering transmedia company which leveraged its gaming property into all kinds of other stuff, and struck gold with them. For a while, TSR's novel lines were a recipe to print money. There were something over 100 Dragonlance novels (just scrolling through the list takes a while), and R.A. Salvatore's Drizzt stories sold like hotcakes. These were often New York Times bestsellers, so for a while, the Random House deal was not just a personal get rich scheme.

Their entry into computer games was enormously successful. Baldur's Gate is still going, but the earlier titles also had very good sales. Novels and computer games probably outstripped tabletop sales even back then. This didn't last forever, since in tabletop and novels, they saturated their market with junk and drove away a lot of customers; while in computer games, the game studios eventually realized they didn't really need the AD&D brand anymore to generate sales once they were big enough. From the mid 90s, you can see them trying and failing to recapture their earlier successes with products that were innovative on the surface, but shitty in the execution. The Dragonstrike video is a typical example in its supreme lameness. (Note the names at the start. Flint Dille is Lorraine's close relative, and another Buck Rogers heir who went into TV instead of the game industry.) Spellfire was Magic, but shitty. Dragon Dice was Magic, but with dice and shitty.

Was it a soulless content mill? Fuck yes, TSR's stuff was rightfully seen as lame in the 90s. Were they assholes? LOL, they had online fan materials taken down and lawfared much smaller companies they saw as intruding on their turf (including an early, pre Magic Wizards of the Coast). Did Williams have contempt for gamers? She was a rich socialite, so probably. Was it unsustainable? Eventually, but the Williams era made a lot of money for about a decade. From a corporate standpoint, sinking your fangs into that and keeping the dollars pumping for that long into your personal bank account is a success story. She must have retired richer than ever after she sold out to WotC.
 
and it only takes one joker going into detail how he's abusing that halfling prostitute he hired (ironically of course) in a fucking public game I much rather have people point at that card before sitting there and say nothing.
And it only takes one me to tell that guy to knock it the fuck off or GTFO. By comparison, all the X card faggot has to do to disrupt the entire game is flip over a card without even justifying whatever he's bitching about.
 
That's a good point. Williams' reign is viewed through TSR's eventual failure and the massive bad vibes that surrounded the company, but this scheme was incredibly profitable, especially due to the peripherals.

And on that note, criticism of Williams tends to revolve around the (IMO) mild bowldlerization of AD&D and other things she did with the content that gamers found personally annoying. What they largely don't realize is the financial angle, that she ruined the company by turning it into a debt vehicle used to rotate money out from creditors into her personal bank account.

What she did is highly unethical but, unfortunately, entirely legal. The board should have never approved the Buck Rogers deal. Since TSR, she's acted in a similarly slimy way. The recent lawsuits surrounding the Dille estate reveal a family that exists as little more than a nepotism-for-profit operation.

Their entry into computer games was enormously successful.

Baldur's Gate was post-WotC buyout. Williams took over in '86, and by 1997, she'd run it into the ground. And this is also very important - the entire D&D operation was profitable just one year after WotC took it over.

The myth is that AD&D 2e was a failure, because TSR went bankrupt. It was not; it was quite successful. TSR failed because Lorraine Williams ran a financial bust-out operation on it.
 
>introverted nerds
>gamestores that have to tell people to take a fucking shower
>convention randoms
:stress:
Yep. The bar is that fucking low, and yet some people fail to match it.

so if someone storms out, then her SO follows to check up on her, how much do you think gets discussed? how much game happens that session? how much fun does the rest have afterwards? "what have we learned?"
We have learned that that person has no business playing RPG, at least not until they go through therapy to sort out whatever hangup caused them to run away from a game of make believe. I don't want someone like that anywhere near my game, much less helping dictate trends in RPGs.

it only takes one joker going into detail how he's abusing that halfling prostitute he hired (ironically of course) in a fucking public game I much rather have people point at that card before sitting there and say nothing. not everyone is outspoken or outright confrontational, especially when it comes to strangers.
The GM needs to have a firm grip on the game. It's on the GM to keep the tone of their game appropriate to what they want to do. The solution to that situation isn't an X card, it's the GM telling the player in question to cut it out or leave the table. If other players also felt uncomfortable, they're free to speak up and speak to the GM about it as well. Nothing about this requires an additional tool, it's all shit players have been doing for 50 fucking years now.

TLDR: it's a tool that requires the right situation and use case like any other fucking tool.
I'm arguing it's a bad tool that's not necessary if everybody acts like an adult. And I'm also stating that you need to be an adult in order to be a good RPG player.

Everybody talks about trauma and all that shit, but the vast majority of people have never had any trauma more intense than losing a loved one during childhood. And if you did go through a situation that left you with PTSD, you gotta get that looked at and worked on. The rest of the table isn't to blame for one player breaking into tears whenever spiders, rape or beef stroganoff are mentioned.

So, fuck off with that entryist nonsense. We've done demos for literally hundreds of randos these past 15 years, and nobody stormed out in a way X cards could have helped. You're far more likely to lose a random player to a roll-related ragequit, loss of interest when they're not allowed to play a catgirl, or an interpersonal problem with another player instead.
 
Copium and delusions. There's a few viable options that COULD break DnD, but Daggerhearts ain't fuckin' it. It legitimately requires you to use cards in constructing your character, and that's something that WILL crater sales.

More than just cratering sales, this causes the 4e Issue of having to commit real money & resources to see if you even like the game and people saying "...that's a lot of effort, I'll pass". Zero lessons from 3.5/5e/pf learned.

[unironic simping for the X card]
I'm X carding your support for X card.
 
Probably an unnecessary nit-pick, but after seeing some games held by /tg/ users. Has anyone else that most /tg/ ttrpg games are usually some variant of: "Piece of Media made popular by the Algorithm and YouTubers", "GM literally either ripping it off with serial numbers filed off or asking for a system to emulate said setting". I get the feeling that some people are too uncreative to make their own setting.
I get what you mean but I haven't browsed /tg/ consistently in years, last time I did they were interested in jojo games, so I don't know how bad it currently is. You're gonna always have those people who see a piece of media and become OBSESSED over it before jumping to the next thing (had a DM like that and it was annoying since he would kept trying to tack on shit he saw on a videogame or anime to the ongoing campaign) but there will also be those who create their own epic fantasy worlds where they go out of their way to detail what foods people eat during a certain season in a given region or those who just wanna have fun and make shit up as they go.
There's nothing wrong with ripping things off as long as the group is having fun, over time they might start modifying the piece of media they're ripping off into something more personal or even make their own setting.

I think the concept within reason could be interesting like a zombie PC or something, but it would definitely need to be something that you’d have to run by the DM.
I've been wanting to play a skeleton paladin in pathfinder 2e but the rules for undead PCs make them seem like a massive pain in the ass for the other party members. Definitively something I would have to talk with the other players beforehand.
 
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What she did is highly unethical but, unfortunately, entirely legal. The board should have never approved the Buck Rogers deal.
Not really if she had fraudulent intent. Then it was a breach of fiduciary duty at the very least. The problem is the board also approved it and so they can all hide behind the so-called "business judgment rule." While in principle it isn't supposed to protect actual fraud and self-dealing, in practice it is probably a nearly unassailable hurdle to get past without something almost as blatant as just openly admitting she deliberately defrauded the company out of millions while knowing it was going to collapse as a result.
 
Everybody talks about trauma and all that shit, but the vast majority of people have never had any trauma more intense than losing a loved one during childhood. And if you did go through a situation that left you with PTSD, you gotta get that looked at and worked on.
And if you have an edgy GM who is just throwing rape, torture and murder into a game that it isn't about plus is coming across as an utter Whizzard, then leave or if you can't manage a confrontation, get the rest of the group to tard smack that perv.

And if it's something like Call of Cthulhu or Stormbringer, they get into some pretty dark content. For instance, the boxed campaign Masks of Nyarlathotep has an NPC presumably raped and impregnated by a Great Old One with a monstrous pregnancy that ultimately kills her, plus of course, she's completely insane by that time.

I'm not big on "trigger warnings" but especially if I knew someone weren't familiar with Lovecraft or might not be okay with it, I'd warn in advance that this gets seriously ugly and that there's rape, body horror and insanity in it, not to mention numerous opportunities for TPKs as it is a generally brutal campaign. In fact it beats out Tomb of Horrors as being one of the campaigns that killed every party I ran it with in its pure form.

It is possible to make it winnable by making it easy to recruit good guy NPCs already in the campaign to replace PCs as they inevitably die or go insane, which they will, or in the event of an entirely possible TPK, to leave behind some NPC who has been keeping records, so you can continue the campaign where it left off. That said, there are also ways of fucking it up so that not only do you lose the party, but the world ends.

tl;dr there are campaigns that feature disturbing content and I'm not going to change them for some shrinking violet. They can leave if they don't like it. This is why in current year I would never even consider playing or GMing a drop-in game at some cancerous troon-infested venue like a con.
 
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Lorraine Williams was smart. She was an accountant, so she understood that what matters is whose balance sheet debt is on, and who gets paid in cash. When she understood the deal TSR had with Random House, she figured out the play. Since she was both owner & CEO of TSR and the Buck Rogers property, she could write contracts with herself ensuring that the liabilities stayed with TSR, while cash went to her, personally.
  1. Random House paid TSR cash advances on books delivered. This money had to be paid back if the books didn't sell. In other words, deliver $1000 of books, get $1000 cash plus a $1000 liability.
  2. Williams wrote a contract with herself to have TSR pay her a royalty on all Buck Rogers material printed, not sold. This was a royalty, not a cash advance, so Williams did not incur a liability. IOW, no refunds.
  3. Williams then had TSR print as much D&D material as it could, with minimal quality testing, defer as many invoices as possible (e.g. not paying their printer), and print tons of Buck Rogers shit, so that it could max out cash on hand in order to pay herself her salary, bonuses, and Buck Rogers royalties.
  4. When the financial house of cards collapsed in the late 1990s, all the liabilities were on TSR's and Random House's balance sheets. All the cash was in Williams' personal bank account.
TL;DR - Lorraine Williams concocted a scheme where the TSR entity borrowed money to pay her cash royalties on a product that was never intended to sell.
Countdown to Doomsday and Matrix Cubed are still kino video games though. The best part is the adventurers journal in the first one that outlines a pretty cool universe. I don't know much about Buck Rogers but I'm pretty sure it's all just some guy's homebrew setting. I imagine the SSI team were handed this scam property no one cared about and just said fuck it then made a space game. I'm also pretty sure SSI shuttered shortly after those games came out which is a shame.

I ran a short lived raygun gothic style campaign that used that guy's vision of the solar system to outline what humanity looked like. The setting from the video game was set in the solar system and any playable races were just genetically engineered humans designed to adapt to the planet they were on. The idea behind the game itself was if this idealized 1940s vision of humanity made first contact and every other species went on a modern idea of what tech advancement would look like. The general idea is that yes, this future is actually the only idolized one in the galaxy and time and time again 1940s future humans proved to just be better than the aliens they were dealing with, with a few exceptions to keep things interesting.

Alien computers were all digital, humanity used punch cards which made their computers near impossible to hack or disable. Aliens went straight to nuclear fusion where humanity perfected fission to the point where the party boasted about humanity's grasp on the power of the atom. They were right most of the time because I purposely designed the ATOMIC CANNON, the main weapon of their ship The Zenith, to be one of the best ship combat weapons in the galactic theater from session 1. The party worked for Goodyear that had obtained one of the first FTL drives and the party's mission to greet aliens and gather info. All the other aliens had unified their species long ago so the party also boasted about healthy competition a lot. They also had jet packs and bubble helmets which were pretty cool.

I should run that shit again now that I think of it.
 
And if you have an edgy GM who is just throwing rape, torture and murder into a game that it isn't about plus is coming across as an utter Whizzard, then leave or if you can't manage a confrontation, get the rest of the group to tard smack that perv.
Yeah. I wrote my posts with the assumption that the GM is reasonable. If the GM is the one being a tard, it falls on the players to either tell him to cut it out, or just dump the chump outright. Half the times you see a would-be GM bitching about how they keep losing players, it's because they were being retarded and the players didn't want to put up with it.

(The other half is usually just being inexperienced and/or trying a setting/scenario/system that was just too advanced or difficult for them.)

And if it's something like Call of Cthulhu or Stormbringer, they get into some pretty dark content. For instance, the boxed campaign Masks of Nyarlathotep has an NPC presumably raped and impregnated by a Great Old One with a monstrous pregnancy that ultimately kills her, plus of course, she's completely insane by that time.

I'm not big on "trigger warnings" but especially if I knew someone weren't familiar with Lovecraft or might not be okay with it, I'd warn in advance that this gets seriously ugly and that there's rape, body horror and insanity in it, not to mention numerous opportunities for TPKs as it is a generally brutal campaign. In fact it beats out Tomb of Horrors as being one of the campaigns that killed every party I ran it with in its pure form.
Working as intended for CoC, then?

Anyway... trigger warnings are dumb as hell, because they assume the contents are all "triggering" for some kind of trauma. It's a small difference, but I prefer content warnings. Those tend to work better because not everybody is going to want to experience the same themes, and in most cases it's not because of "triggers". It's because they just plain don't like the themes in question. Those things should all be set up and divulged by the GM ahead of time, and any player going in should be mindful of it.

If the GM says "this is going to be pretty hard on the horror, including body horror and rape", everybody signing up for it should be assumed to be fine with it. And if they aren't, it's on them to either put up with it, or excuse themselves. You don't start yelling for people to shut off the projector if you're at the theaters and the horror movie you bought tickets to ended up too scary for you. You get up, walk away, and regain your composure outside.

"What if the GM doesn't warn people ahead of time?"

See above: second verse, same as the first. If you're consuming a piece of media or playing a game that features something so heinous or frightening that it ruins your experience, you turn off the TV, close the game, and disengage with it. Same with RPGs. It may be 100% the GM's fault for being a sperg, but the biggest punishment for a GM is to lose a player (or a whole group if they fuck up hard enough). Getting up and walking away is going to upset a stupid or controlling GM far more than trying to argue with them or putting up with their spergery.

This whole notion that people are too fragile to be civilized when faced with things they don't like in a game of make-believe is just insane. It's not like they're watching a snuff video, the images are literally all in their heads.

tl;dr there are campaigns that feature disturbing content and I'm not going to change them for some shrinking violet. They can leave if they don't like it. This is why in current year I would never even consider playing or GMing a drop-in game at some cancerous troon-infested venue like a con.
Yeah, if you're doing anything with randos, be it a demo, a drop-in game, or organizing a game in a community you're not already very familiar with, you should be extremely mindful of the content you feature. Treat every player like they're a beginner: introduce them to your style of GMing (or playing) with something relatively inoffensive, and once you have a feel for the players you should be able to tell just what they are and are not fine with.

It varies from player to player, too. On my second group (still on hiatus, RIP), back when we were playing Hunter, one of the player characters lost an eye to a small worm creature trying to bury its way through to his brain. One of the other players got a little green around the gills (he hates eye gore), but the player controlling the character was pretty ecstatic at the end because his character got to wear a cool eyepatch. One player was mildly inconvenienced but was pretty much over it the next session, another other player had a lot of fun with the scene and ended up with a good memory.

You can't make everybody happy, so trying to prevent all discomfort is pointless. All you can do is, once you're aware of a pain point, to communicate with the players so nothing goes so far past the line that they're willing to quit over it. For example, the GM on my second group now keeps any descriptions of unfortunate things happening to eyes fairly vague when that player is in attendance. But he doesn't avoid it completely if it's called for by the setting or the situation. If there are crows pecking at corpses, the eyes are gone. Sorry, bud.

That's why I keep saying RPGs are social games: they work much better when people are actually talking to each other.
 
Treat every player like they're a beginner: introduce them to your style of GMing (or playing) with something relatively inoffensive, and once you have a feel for the players you should be able to tell just what they are and are not fine with.
The problem is these X card people literally live to ruin everyone's fun. That's their idea of fun, to complain about literally anything. Even if I tried to be as inoffensive as possible I'd let something slip and then we have some faggot sperging instead of just deciding they don't like it and would rather do something else. There are people for whom bitching is their sole reason for existence. If anyone else is having fun, they are mad.

I frankly don't even want to play with people who are just there to fuck everything up. They're like the passive-aggressive faggy version of griefers.
 
The inventor of the X card is a fucking moron. They created a way for blue mana players in MtG to suck all the fun out of other games and didn't monetize it.
 
I get what you mean but I haven't browsed /tg/ consistently in years, last time I did they were interested in jojo games, so I don't know how bad it currently is. You're gonna always have those people who see a piece of media and become OBSESSED over it before jumping to the next thing (had a DM like that and it was annoying since he would kept trying to tack on shit he saw on a videogame or anime to the ongoing campaign)
That's exactly what I mean, you have no idea how many games I saw that will straight copy+paste whatever flavor of the month anime is currently airing, like that one dungeon eating show.
 
That's exactly what I mean, you have no idea how many games I saw that will straight copy+paste whatever flavor of the month anime is currently airing, like that one dungeon eating show.
So basically this:
1711025853021796.png
 
Lorraine Williams was smart. She was an accountant, so she understood that what matters is whose balance sheet debt is on, and who gets paid in cash. When she understood the deal TSR had with Random House, she figured out the play. Since she was both owner & CEO of TSR and the Buck Rogers property, she could write contracts with herself ensuring that the liabilities stayed with TSR, while cash went to her, personally.
  1. Random House paid TSR cash advances on books delivered. This money had to be paid back if the books didn't sell. In other words, deliver $1000 of books, get $1000 cash plus a $1000 liability.
  2. Williams wrote a contract with herself to have TSR pay her a royalty on all Buck Rogers material printed, not sold. This was a royalty, not a cash advance, so Williams did not incur a liability. IOW, no refunds.
  3. Williams then had TSR print as much D&D material as it could, with minimal quality testing, defer as many invoices as possible (e.g. not paying their printer), and print tons of Buck Rogers shit, so that it could max out cash on hand in order to pay herself her salary, bonuses, and Buck Rogers royalties.
  4. When the financial house of cards collapsed in the late 1990s, all the liabilities were on TSR's and Random House's balance sheets. All the cash was in Williams' personal bank account.
TL;DR - Lorraine Williams concocted a scheme where the TSR entity borrowed money to pay her cash royalties on a product that was never intended to sell.
None of this sounds remotely legal.

That's a good point. Williams' reign is viewed through TSR's eventual failure and the massive bad vibes that surrounded the company, but this scheme was incredibly profitable,
It was profitable for Lorraine. Nobody else really benefited in the long or short term.
 
The problem is these X card people literally live to ruin everyone's fun. That's their idea of fun, to complain about literally anything. Even if I tried to be as inoffensive as possible I'd let something slip and then we have some faggot sperging instead of just deciding they don't like it and would rather do something else. There are people for whom bitching is their sole reason for existence. If anyone else is having fun, they are mad.

I frankly don't even want to play with people who are just there to fuck everything up. They're like the passive-aggressive faggy version of griefers.
I was speaking from the basic premise that X cards were being used "as intended" and how dumb and counterproductive their actual purpose is, because that's (presumably) what ZMOT was talking about. I would hope everybody in this thread already knows just how easy to abuse these things are, and how some people have only gotten into the hobby so they self-insert, power-trip and ruin the fun for everybody else. And no, I don't just mean the wokescolds. Anyone can abuse X cards, because the whole purpose of the system is to force a change without recourse. If someone plays the X card for something you as a player or a GM did, and you try to argue about it, as far as the X card system is concerned, you're doing it wrong.

And if anyone doesn't know these people, just... I don't know, go back to the OP and highlight-surf a while. Between all the edition sperging and session anecdotes, this should give you a good idea of the breed of assholes that's been trying to take over tabletop RPGs for the longest time now.
 
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Fuck, I just remembered the time I ran an arabian nights campaign for which I did a lot of research (read the al qadim books, poetry and consumed some other related media). This one fucker complained and said he didn't liked it, ok fair enough but he's also the same fucker who complained about the previous campaign being "generic european fantasy", there are people you just can't please.
Now excuse me while I go to the angry dome.
 
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