Tabletop Roleplaying Games (D&D, Pathfinder, CoC, ETC.)

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I have a Dilemma, I have two characters I can play in an up coming campaign(5e, I am sorry), but can not tell which one will scale better (one member has munchkined a monster and has thus raised the difficult greatly) I have a battle master Fighter and a berserker Barbarian (Both Dex builds), what is more useful as a damange sponge and punishment giver in the 5-11 level range wizards who actually understand the rule book.
You're going to have a very bad time with a Dex Barbarian.

With a Dex Battlemaster you're going to be giving up damage if you want to damage sponge for your party members or be hanging back to shoot arrows to do any appreciable damage with sharpshooter.
 
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Could've sworn 5e got rid of the dex not doing damage thing last I checked. Either way you really don't need to be a sponge in 5e. It's actually extremely hard to geek a party in that game without being a complete bastard with your monster selections/spam them to shit and back.

Now tell me more about how this one retard felt the need to play a monster in the hardest to die edition of the game. There's literally no reason for this depending on what he picked unless you all get to be beasties.

See, Monster parties are fun, but you actually need to know the mechanics behind building and advancing them to make it reasonably fair for the party. I'd know, I learned how due to a short lived but fun All Monster party where we escaped from the dungeon to be free and murk people as is our want. It was fun but short.
 
Could've sworn 5e got rid of the dex not doing damage thing last I checked.
Sort of. Finesse weapons (Daggers, Darts, Rapiers, Scimitars, Shortswords and Whips) can use Dex for attack rolls and damage. Since a rapier deals the same damage as a one-handed longsword it's really not hard to make a Dex tank in studded leather and a shield, dealing essentially the same damage and with almost the same AC as a Str tank in full plate, without any of the downsides.

Much cheaper to equip, too.
 
Could've sworn 5e got rid of the dex not doing damage thing last I checked. Either way you really don't need to be a sponge in 5e. It's actually extremely hard to geek a party in that game without being a complete bastard with your monster selections/spam them to shit and back.
Dex adds damage to range/finesse weapons, but focusing on Dex means you're going to be doing less melee damage than you will with a bow because there are no two-handed finesse weapons that synergize with Great Weapon Mastery. As a result, he's going to have to choose between focusing on defense/tanking or focusing on damage. Add to the fact that once the melee Dex Battlemaster is out of superiority dice in the encounter, all he has left to do is swing his weapon because any other useful grapple/shove/pin/pull is going to require an Athletics check, which he will be terrible at because he's going to have a substandard Str. As for Dex Barbarians, they get no bonus damage from range, will be using a one-handed weapon, and will not benefit from the reckless attack feature, making this an even more terrible choice.
Sort of. Finesse weapons (Daggers, Darts, Rapiers, Scimitars, Shortswords and Whips) can use Dex for attack rolls and damage. Since a rapier deals the same damage as a one-handed longsword it's really not hard to make a Dex tank in studded leather and a shield, dealing essentially the same damage and with almost the same AC as a Str tank in full plate, without any of the downsides.
It sounds good on paper until the Str Fighter gets a belt of giant strength and Skill Experts his Athletics. I keep seeing this process repeat itself in my group. They go heavy defense Dex and it works at the low levels, but eventually it reaches a point in the game where the enemy attack bonuses outpace your AC unless you have a Monty Haul DM. And then later game you're doing subpar damage while taking large amounts of damage and you're essentially dead weight that absorbs cleric spell slots every turn. Dex is severely overrated in melee combat unless you're a rogue or eldritch knight.
 
@Jet Fuel Johnny If my DM ever gets his shit running, I'll drop your ass an invite. Party's already had to put up with my oldfag character's ass complaining every so often about how back in his day they had to ride horses instead of jetbikes to go places, and uphill both ways in the blazing hot desert sands. And they had muzzleloading flintlocks and they were thankful for them, none of these fancy "automatic rifles" and their "smokeless powder".
 
I’ve met 5e players who’ve demanded that I allow swapping of Athletics and Acrobatics. Or to allow Dex to be used with Athletics.
Why? Grapples and shoves can be contested with Athletics or Acrobatics. Unless they're trying to argue they should be able to do Rey Mysterio-style high-flying "grappling" moves with Acrobatics, swapping the two is pointless.
 
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I’ve met 5e players who’ve demanded that I allow swapping of Athletics and Acrobatics. Or to allow Dex to be used with Athletics.

If players pitch me a good reason, I'll let them swap a skill's base stat on a one-off. Want to argue that keeping balance in armor is more about working your core than light fingers? Sounds reasonable, tell me how you're using that.
Want to lay out a case that by discussing philosophy with the king you're using INT instead of CHA on diplomacy? I'll hear you out.
Just don't expect it, and you gotta put in some effort. I'm not going to let you search the library for information with STR.

If you had the biggest munchkin you're looking at a +6 at most, and usually its a +2 or +1; I give out +1 session tokens for good RP and I'd probably give them a +2 circumstance if they just have a clever plan and lay it out."
And just "I use athletics with Dex instead" doesn't fly, you gotta lay this shit out. I want some descriptions and adjectives, I want a reasonable answer and not just a string of bullshit.

I'll also hear out skill swaps, but you gotta be really good with the reasoning and not just be trying to min-max to the one they're trained in (and also have a record of not being a pouty shit when told "No") but usually I shut that down by asking if they'd let me ask them for a athletics check to stay up on the rope.
 
If players pitch me a good reason, I'll let them swap a skill's base stat on a one-off. Want to argue that keeping balance in armor is more about working your core than light fingers? Sounds reasonable, tell me how you're using that.
Want to lay out a case that by discussing philosophy with the king you're using INT instead of CHA on diplomacy? I'll hear you out.
Just don't expect it, and you gotta put in some effort. I'm not going to let you search the library for information with STR.

If you had the biggest munchkin you're looking at a +6 at most, and usually its a +2 or +1; I give out +1 session tokens for good RP and I'd probably give them a +2 circumstance if they just have a clever plan and lay it out."
And just "I use athletics with Dex instead" doesn't fly, you gotta lay this shit out. I want some descriptions and adjectives, I want a reasonable answer and not just a string of bullshit.

I'll also hear out skill swaps, but you gotta be really good with the reasoning and not just be trying to min-max to the one they're trained in (and also have a record of not being a pouty shit when told "No") but usually I shut that down by asking if they'd let me ask them for a athletics check to stay up on the rope.
I search the library for information with STR because the gnome wizards are too short to reach the good books on the top shelf. (OK, this would probably never fly. Even in this case, you'd still have to be able to read them.)
Congratulations, you proved that a dedicated ranged build beats a completely vanilla Wizard at damage per turn with cantrips only at level 11.

It doesn't account for the fact the Wizard didn't need any kind of specialization to get those 3d10 at level 11, or the 16 spell slots the Wizard gets per long rest, or all the damage/utility effects of at least four other cantrips they get to use at-will. And the Wizard can still deal all that magical damage while disarmed, and never runs out of ammo.


Absolutely. Martials need to be able to do more than just roll for attack, miss, and then stand there sucking their thumb for the rest of the turn. 3.5e at least gave you a few more options in terms of maneuvers, and Attacks of Opportunity were easier to trigger.

Battlemaster was a step in the right direction, but with Power Attack and Cleave (now costing a Bonus Action) being limited to Great Weapon Master, and with the "interesting" melee options being heavily limited by resources (superiority dice, ki, etc), and with how 5e combat drags on, it's still very easy to just spend multiple turns doing the "swing, miss, wait" dance. I help with demo games a lot, and a ton of newbies we've introduced to the game talked about how frustrating it was to be limited to just saying "I attack", getting a string of bad luck on the d20, and spending three combat encounters being used as a punching bag with zero kills to their name.

Anyway, I'm actually quite happy with casters in 5e as far as their actual level 1 to 9 spells go. They're pretty balanced. My problems with cantrips are that 1 - they're as powerful as ranged weapons up to level 5, and still competitive past that; and 2 - they're completely free and require nothing but their voice and their fingertips. A fighter can be disarmed, a rogue can be caught by surprise without her daggers, a ranger can run out of arrows, but as long as they're above 0HP a spellcaster can keep chucking cantrips around without any kind of limit or requirement. And it's all magical damage, which is rarely if ever resisted and automatically grows with level (while non-cantrip spells require you to upcast), and many of them don't need attack rolls so they don't even care about being Restrained.

I get they were trying to give spellcasters something to do when they're not casting something that costs a spell slot, but they've gone too far with it. I'd much rather spellcasters got more weapon proficiencies (as I said, my 3.5e Sorcerer could still contribute with his crossbow), or simply focused more on wands as a source of damage for them. A Wand of Fire Bolt with 10-20 charges (regaining them after a long rest) is a perfectly fine source of ranged damage for a spellcaster. You can even do the +1/+2/+3 thing with them by having each improvement add 1d10 damage, just like cantrips currently do with levels.

Simply solving the problem of spellcasters not having anything to do while not casting magic with "more magic" was just really fucking lazy.
That's not the problem. Pathfinder has this completely solved. Anything 5e does wrong, just play Pathfinder 1e. If you just want to chuck damage all day like 5e cantrips do, play a Kineticist, which is also a psychic class and doesn't have to shout magic words all the time. If you want to be a sorcerer with a crossbow, you can do that. If you want to be a sorcerer who would never use a crossbow and uses cantrips, that's valid too, and they'll do less damage other than against things with vulnerabilities. You can even be a sorcerer who goes into melee like Gandalf. Builds make thematic sense in Pathfinder, so you can just enjoy the fantasy. 5e is just trying to be a simplified as possible, which is good for trying to get people hooked on My First TTRPG™ and horrible for pretty much anything else. As soon as you decide you want to do anything besides cast cantrips or hit something with your rapier four times you will have a bad time in 5e, and the average 5e DM will probably think you're cheating when your build is still bad at some things, just good at what they expected you to be bad at. The big online Pathfinder 1e servers tend to be great in my experience, you can make your time mage, your mind mage, your Hercules barbarian, your Brünnhilde paladin, and not have the DM hate you.
 
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I have a new story from a D&D game I was in just yesterday on a Westmarch server.

Long story short we met with an elf who was claiming there to be cultist activity in a nearby city. We go there, look around, and the entire party ends up getting framed as criminals for asking questions and meeting the elf. The elf before giving us all the info tries to flee in a panic as he realizes we were followed, however knowing we still need info, and that he will die on his own if we don’t protect him, my character decides to knock him out non lethally instead. A very suspiciously placed couple on the DM’s part sees this as well and I knock them out as well. Now the party and our captives make camp outside the city to interrogate the captives and hide from the law.

While camping out site is approached by a harpie… who my character promptly shit in the head because harpies are evil monsters known for tricking travelers and it was likely a spy. Turned out to be an illusion made by a tiefling bard, another player just joining. I sneak up on them as they are unwilling to get closer to our camp and reveal that I am unarmed at which point the bard attack makes with shatter and promptly gets beaten unconscious for her trouble. I drag her to camp and we wake her with some healing around which time a huge monster Eldritch abomination thing which the DM heavily hints was lured here by her Shatter attacks us. The bard runs while myself and just one other party member are left to fight it since the other two not including the new bard are busy releasing our captives without telling anyone. We almost die fighting the monster and narrowly escape after leading it away from camp only to find the bard has since returned and been mauled by our wizards pet winter wolf. We heal her again despite protest. Two halves of party fight over if it’s morally justified to knock those people out. I get called a violent criminals my character is a fully deputized guardsman by the way and the only one in the party regarded as a hero in our main city because I caught a very prolific serial killer. I’m the bad guy for knocking out three people to save potentially countless lives.

Not only that but these psychos defended the bard’s horrible behavior and actions and mind you the bard has been acting like a completely hateful cunt since we met.

By the end of this the bard got herself killed in town after stealing from a church unrelated to the cult and insulting their god and clergy. The wizard and her winter wolf ran away. The one who was helping me fight the monster died to a zombie beholder owned by the cult and I made 1000gp for selling them out to the cult because fuck those assholes
 
I’m trying to run a low level campaign but my players have been complaining that I want to cap the player level at 5. am I being unreasonable with this?
 
I’m trying to run a low level campaign but my players have been complaining that I want to cap the player level at 5. am I being unreasonable with this?
If you advertised the campaign as such and they accepted it, then you're not being unreasonable. If you sprung it on them, then you're the asshole.

Personally, if I'm going for a 5-level spread campaign I'd go from level 3 to level 8. Levels 1 and 2 are basically just padding to let newbies come to grips with simplified versions of their characters.
 
Our group's next game is going to be another Mutants and Masterminds, but we just got told to create PL8 100 point "Men and women of science". Didn't get told what for initially. Just found out that it's going to be a Godzilla style kaiju centric setting. I am nervous at how this is going to work, but also quite fascinated....
 
I’m trying to run a low level campaign but my players have been complaining that I want to cap the player level at 5. am I being unreasonable with this?

Its been said so I'll join the chorus: If you said this was a low-level campaign, if they are bitching about a low level cap, tuff nookies. If you're changing course in mid-stream, they have a right to be miffed.

My only real experience with 5e has been some oneshots, I think all at lvl 5, and lvl 5 seemed plenty fine.

I did a low-level 5-capped 4e campaign and it was pretty fun. But I let players know just because the lvl was capped at 5 didn't mean player progression was.

So in the world of the game, progressing to lvl 6 required a divine blessing (lvl 6 gave a +1 to attack/all def and a utility). You needed to have enough pull with your church and god, and perform a great deed in your God(dess)'s name (This was advertised at the beginning of the game and one of the more euphoric players started bitching around lvl 4.5 because he had been treating his deity as a blank on his character sheet. He was more or less shut down by the other players who HAD been tithing to their religious organizations.).
You could technically level to 6 at any point during lvl 5, and once you had enough XP to reach lvl 6, whether or not you leveled, you got a feat and a stat boost. Once you had the XP for lvl 7 (I dialed it back some, I think 80% of it) you got another stat boost.

I also gave out modified feats based on adventure performance, as well as better gear, and you could get blessings from your diety as well.
So players didn't level up normally, but they still incrementally progressed.
 
Fucking reply bug. Directed to @Sorlock

That's not the problem. Pathfinder has this completely solved. Anything 5e does wrong, just play Pathfinder 1e. If you just want to chuck damage all day like 5e cantrips do, play a Kineticist, which is also a psychic class and doesn't have to shout magic words all the time. If you want to be a sorcerer with a crossbow, you can do that. If you want to be a sorcerer who would never use a crossbow and uses cantrips, that's valid too, and they'll do less damage other than against things with vulnerabilities. You can even be a sorcerer who goes into melee like Gandalf. Builds make thematic sense in Pathfinder, so you can just enjoy the fantasy. 5e is just trying to be a simplified as possible, which is good for trying to get people hooked on My First TTRPG™ and horrible for pretty much anything else. As soon as you decide you want to do anything besides cast cantrips or hit something with your rapier four times you will have a bad time in 5e, and the average 5e DM will probably think you're cheating when your build is still bad at some things, just good at what they expected you to be bad at. The big online Pathfinder 1e servers tend to be great in my experience, you can make your time mage, your mind mage, your Hercules barbarian, your Brünnhilde paladin, and not have the DM hate you.
And say what you will about Paizo, but PF2E takes this 'build what you want' style up to fucking eleven. Seriously, you can construct damned near ANYTHING from what I've seen of 2E, and the builds can be gonzo, hilarious, and effective to boot.
 
So with my TTRPG group I'm going to start running Starfinder. Anyone else run it? Any issues with the system? I've played 3.5 and Pathfinder first edition alot so i think I can get it down.
 
I’m trying to run a low level campaign but my players have been complaining that I want to cap the player level at 5. am I being unreasonable with this?
What system? Did you let your players know you wanted to stay at low levels before they started to play?
 
So with my TTRPG group I'm going to start running Starfinder. Anyone else run it? Any issues with the system? I've played 3.5 and Pathfinder first edition alot so i think I can get it down.

Publisher, yes, Paizo fully pozzed.
System, other than woke injection from Paizo, nothing really bad provided you like Pathfinder and want to deal with the warts of D&D in space.
 
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