Tabletop Roleplaying Games (D&D, Pathfinder, CoC, ETC.)

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Snekposter said:
Minus the orders, isn't that just payday weekend in the military? And how long did they argue over hitting the PX or the liquor store first? All about priorities.

Also, all your game is missing is Animal Mother, then it would be *chef's kiss*.
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The argument took about ten minutes real time, but I just stated that everyone argued for like a half hour.

For some of these players, it's an entire shock that they're all "OK, I'm a partial conversion cyborg, I'm going to grab the railgun off the tripod." and I just shrug and go "OK. You only suffer a -2 to hip fire it." They just stare for a second. "Wait, I can do this?"

Dude, you have a guy in a power armor that has a fucking cannon that does 4d6 to 6d6x10 depending on the type of rounds he's using. I'm not worried about your 1d4x10 hip fired fucking railgun.

Had another guy wanted to jump off the top of a 4 story barracks building and PLF. He wanted to know how much damage. Uh... you're in a fucking Silver Eagle with a blown thruster, but still a fucking suit of POWER ARMOR. NONE! Do a goddamn superhero pose when you hit.

"The aliens duck behind a brick wall, obviously trying to reload their missile launcher."
"Damn, can't hit them."
"Wait, is the wall SDC?"
>Yes
"Can we shoot through the wall with our MDC weapons?"
>Yes
"We can? For like, what, half damage?"
>-2 to your damage. Total. The wall has 150 SDC. They have full cover, so -4 to your roll.
"I got a 17."
>The wall explodes. Roll your damage. 1d4x10-2 MDC.
"THIS SHIT ROCKS!"

"Wait, I can dump the entire mag into it from my rifle?"
>Well, it does take 2 attacks and you expend your ammo. You do x7 damage, IIRC. Lemme look it up.
"I have three attacks. I can dump mag and reload!"
>Yes
"FUCK YOU, ALIEN SCUM!"
BRRRRRRRRT

"All four of us will push the truck."
>Why? Two of you are cyborgs, you have 2 Silver Eagles and a Chromium Guardsman.
"How many of us will it take to push the truck."
>The partial conversion can do it.
"Really? OK."

"Wait, we can HAVE the fly-by-wire and the smart missiles?"
>Yes
"But..."
>Yes?
"They're really cool."
>Yup
"And we can have the mortars?"
>Yes.
"And we can have ammo for the tank?"
>Sure.
"Why?"
>Because we're playing a game where you have a guy with a BOOM GUN. I'm not worried about mortar rounds.
"But what if you run out of enemies for us?"
>Then I'll open a rift and have more come through.
"Wait, what if we put auto-turrets around the rifts and fighting positions so when it opens we chop whatever comes through to hamburger?"
>OK.
"You'll let us do that?"
>Well, not you, that sounds like enlisted work. You have cool shit to do.
"You're not mad?"
>Nope.
"Then we can attack the bugs building the hive in the housing area."
>Yup
"Are you sure this is how the game is played?"
>Absolutely.

I've never played 5E, but I've been getting the weird feeling that for all the "PLAYERS DO WHAT THEY WANT!!!! SQUEEEE!" bullshit, they're actually kind of limited in what they can actually do.
 
Jet Fuel Johnny said:
I've never played 5E, but I've been getting the weird feeling that for all the "PLAYERS DO WHAT THEY WANT!!!! SQUEEEE!" bullshit, they're actually kind of limited in what they can actually do.
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The rules are so vague in 5e for so much stuff that pretty everything you described comes down to DM fiat. So if you know the DM and he's cool, yeah you do cool stuff and it's no big deal. If he's new or a rules stickler, there's no point in doing cool stuff since you're probably going to get penalized for trying.

Ran a one shot for some guys once where the idea was "it's a modern day heist with almost zero rules". One of them said jokingly, "I call my contact in Russia and get him to send me a truck of old RPGs." He didn't know what to do next when I told him the truck was parked 2 blocks over, now what are you doing? The concept of actually freeform gameplay scares and befuddled most players in my experience.
 
Jet Fuel Johnny said:
I've never played 5E, but I've been getting the weird feeling that for all the "PLAYERS DO WHAT THEY WANT!!!! SQUEEEE!" bullshit, they're actually kind of limited in what they can actually do.
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But see there are no rules about being a furry or inverting your cock, and probably no reminders in the rule books about the slave trade being wrong. Advantage: 5E.
 
SouthernBitchBob said:
Oh yay! Today I learned that Mike "women can't do math" Mearls the turbo SJW is leaving WOTC.

His replacement's Twitter

Ah. Replaced by another Social Justice lunatic. I expected as much, but we always live in hope. Here's to more years of troonacy and racebaiting to laugh at in the D&D books I don't buy at the bookstore. :drink:
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It'll take a very public change of heart in the company for someone high-up to be replaced by anyone who's not at least as woke as they are. Don't hold your breath, kids.
 
Jet Fuel Johnny said:
I've never played 5E, but I've been getting the weird feeling that for all the "PLAYERS DO WHAT THEY WANT!!!! SQUEEEE!" bullshit, they're actually kind of limited in what they can actually do.
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I'm in the same boat. I hear it's all about "total freedom to do what you want!", but I think back to the 2nd and 3rd ed days of eeeeeeeevil caster supremacy, then I look at 5th ed's incredibly video gamey restrictive rules in their magic system with KONSENTRASHUN and ATOONMENT so you can never ever ever do wicked buff layering or wear dirty enchanted equipment and I have to wonder if someone with a wizard staff bumper sticker ran over Mike Mearls' dog when he was a kid. "Freedom"? Can't wait for sixth edition where the haste spell requires cutting one of your fingers off as a material component, standing in one spot while you "concentrate", it only affects one target and lasts two rounds. Wizards in modern D&D look more like sparkle archers than reality warpers.
 
Jet Fuel Johnny said:
The argument took about ten minutes real time, but I just stated that everyone argued for like a half hour.

For some of these players, it's an entire shock that they're all "OK, I'm a partial conversion cyborg, I'm going to grab the railgun off the tripod." and I just shrug and go "OK. You only suffer a -2 to hip fire it." They just stare for a second. "Wait, I can do this?"

Dude, you have a guy in a power armor that has a fucking cannon that does 4d6 to 6d6x10 depending on the type of rounds he's using. I'm not worried about your 1d4x10 hip fired fucking railgun.

Had another guy wanted to jump off the top of a 4 story barracks building and PLF. He wanted to know how much damage. Uh... you're in a fucking Silver Eagle with a blown thruster, but still a fucking suit of POWER ARMOR. NONE! Do a goddamn superhero pose when you hit.

"The aliens duck behind a brick wall, obviously trying to reload their missile launcher."
"Damn, can't hit them."
"Wait, is the wall SDC?"
>Yes
"Can we shoot through the wall with our MDC weapons?"
>Yes
"We can? For like, what, half damage?"
>-2 to your damage. Total. The wall has 150 SDC. They have full cover, so -4 to your roll.
"I got a 17."
>The wall explodes. Roll your damage. 1d4x10-2 MDC.
"THIS SHIT ROCKS!"

"Wait, I can dump the entire mag into it from my rifle?"
>Well, it does take 2 attacks and you expend your ammo. You do x7 damage, IIRC. Lemme look it up.
"I have three attacks. I can dump mag and reload!"
>Yes
"FUCK YOU, ALIEN SCUM!"
BRRRRRRRRT

"All four of us will push the truck."
>Why? Two of you are cyborgs, you have 2 Silver Eagles and a Chromium Guardsman.
"How many of us will it take to push the truck."
>The partial conversion can do it.
"Really? OK."

"Wait, we can HAVE the fly-by-wire and the smart missiles?"
>Yes
"But..."
>Yes?
"They're really cool."
>Yup
"And we can have the mortars?"
>Yes.
"And we can have ammo for the tank?"
>Sure.
"Why?"
>Because we're playing a game where you have a guy with a BOOM GUN. I'm not worried about mortar rounds.
"But what if you run out of enemies for us?"
>Then I'll open a rift and have more come through.
"Wait, what if we put auto-turrets around the rifts and fighting positions so when it opens we chop whatever comes through to hamburger?"
>OK.
"You'll let us do that?"
>Well, not you, that sounds like enlisted work. You have cool shit to do.
"You're not mad?"
>Nope.
"Then we can attack the bugs building the hive in the housing area."
>Yup
"Are you sure this is how the game is played?"
>Absolutely.

I've never played 5E, but I've been getting the weird feeling that for all the "PLAYERS DO WHAT THEY WANT!!!! SQUEEEE!" bullshit, they're actually kind of limited in what they can actually do.
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Damn it Johnny, you've made me jealous.
 
Jet Fuel Johnny said:
The argument took about ten minutes real time, but I just stated that everyone argued for like a half hour.

For some of these players, it's an entire shock that they're all "OK, I'm a partial conversion cyborg, I'm going to grab the railgun off the tripod." and I just shrug and go "OK. You only suffer a -2 to hip fire it." They just stare for a second. "Wait, I can do this?"

Dude, you have a guy in a power armor that has a fucking cannon that does 4d6 to 6d6x10 depending on the type of rounds he's using. I'm not worried about your 1d4x10 hip fired fucking railgun.

Had another guy wanted to jump off the top of a 4 story barracks building and PLF. He wanted to know how much damage. Uh... you're in a fucking Silver Eagle with a blown thruster, but still a fucking suit of POWER ARMOR. NONE! Do a goddamn superhero pose when you hit.

"The aliens duck behind a brick wall, obviously trying to reload their missile launcher."
"Damn, can't hit them."
"Wait, is the wall SDC?"
>Yes
"Can we shoot through the wall with our MDC weapons?"
>Yes
"We can? For like, what, half damage?"
>-2 to your damage. Total. The wall has 150 SDC. They have full cover, so -4 to your roll.
"I got a 17."
>The wall explodes. Roll your damage. 1d4x10-2 MDC.
"THIS SHIT ROCKS!"

"Wait, I can dump the entire mag into it from my rifle?"
>Well, it does take 2 attacks and you expend your ammo. You do x7 damage, IIRC. Lemme look it up.
"I have three attacks. I can dump mag and reload!"
>Yes
"FUCK YOU, ALIEN SCUM!"
BRRRRRRRRT

"All four of us will push the truck."
>Why? Two of you are cyborgs, you have 2 Silver Eagles and a Chromium Guardsman.
"How many of us will it take to push the truck."
>The partial conversion can do it.
"Really? OK."

"Wait, we can HAVE the fly-by-wire and the smart missiles?"
>Yes
"But..."
>Yes?
"They're really cool."
>Yup
"And we can have the mortars?"
>Yes.
"And we can have ammo for the tank?"
>Sure.
"Why?"
>Because we're playing a game where you have a guy with a BOOM GUN. I'm not worried about mortar rounds.
"But what if you run out of enemies for us?"
>Then I'll open a rift and have more come through.
"Wait, what if we put auto-turrets around the rifts and fighting positions so when it opens we chop whatever comes through to hamburger?"
>OK.
"You'll let us do that?"
>Well, not you, that sounds like enlisted work. You have cool shit to do.
"You're not mad?"
>Nope.
"Then we can attack the bugs building the hive in the housing area."
>Yup
"Are you sure this is how the game is played?"
>Absolutely.

I've never played 5E, but I've been getting the weird feeling that for all the "PLAYERS DO WHAT THEY WANT!!!! SQUEEEE!" bullshit, they're actually kind of limited in what they can actually do.
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Oh yeah, the Palladium ruleset allows for a shitton of fun stuff with a good GM. In a game a buddy was running for a bit before COVID fucked everything I had a half-borg elf (arms and legs) running around with PP and Spd in the mid twenties. He also brought in the Martial Arts rules from Ninjas and Superspies with a few tweaks so I nabbed that one Yakuza MA about John Woo style shit so was blasting fuckers left and right with twin DEagles. 4 attacks per round, could fire both guns as one attack. Had to split my attack bonuses between them, but at 25 PP and the DM applying those bonuses to firearms to targets within 10m, so with the +8 to hit from general WP and the MA training plus the ridiculous +7 from my PP... "So, yeah, okay, splitting my +15 to hit I'm at a... +8 with my main hand and +7 with my offhand, and I've jumped so high up I'm technically in an elevated position over him that negates his cover bonus, so can I just roll for damage against this mook?"
 
Any one know anything about Meta Zoo? The creator is showing some real lolcow typical behavior in banning anyone that disagrees with him. He also bans anyone that associates with this one discord he treats as a boogie man called the "Black Border Society"? Could be something there.
 
Love Machine said:
Any one know anything about Meta Zoo? The creator is showing some real lolcow typical behavior in banning anyone that disagrees with him. He also bans anyone that associates with this one discord he treats as a boogie man called the "Black Border Society"? Could be something there.
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Heard of it. A few of my dudes bought in a while ago but I've never seen it played. Where's the dude doing this stuff, his forums?
 
EnemyStand said:
Heard of it. A few of my dudes bought in a while ago but I've never seen it played. Where's the dude doing this stuff, his forums?
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The meta zoo discord I think. He is also pulling allocations for LGS owners. Here are some videos that made me conscious on the whole situation.
A quick tldr of the situation from my understang
>Meta Zoo is a card game propped up by investor fags
>They over print last set
>LGS owners lose a lot of money
>People lose faith
>Investor fags lose money
>They announce they are printing 200,000 boxes of their next set(LOL)
>People start talking about how there obviously isnt that much demand for it
>People already starting to purge allocations at $80 a box
>Meta Zoo starts to sperg out, Oh they are also trying to force LGSs to sell at MSRP (like $120 per box)

 
Ghostse said:
I consider that a feature though. Broken munchkin builds are fun for about 10 minutes for everyone else.
Inb4 crossbow expert.
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It's absolutely a feature. Broken combos are fun to brew, but they tend to make the game boring. Either to the player doing it, to the other players who don't get to do much, or to the GM who has to start designing every encounter to account for that combo in order to give the party any kind of challenge.

But RPGs being social games there are always arguments about it. And in the end it's much easier for a player, even a munchkin, to swallow a "the rules don't allow it" when they roll up to the table with a broken build, than it is for them to accept the GM saying "I don't want that sort of combo in my game". Even though the GM has the final word, munchkins live and die by the book.
 
SouthernBitchBob said:
Oh yay! Today I learned that Mike "women can't do math" Mearls the turbo SJW is leaving WOTC.
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As one of the few remaining 4e fans I'm just glad this man will no longer associated with D&D. He actively killed 4e by making Essentials that was universally reviled because he wanted the edition gone so he could make his own dream edition. Damn it feels good to watch his baby taken from him before it could run its course. Of course 5e will continue being bland pandering garbage and 6e will most likely be worse but at least I got my release, if 10 years too late.
 
Ghostse said:
I consider that a feature though. Broken munchkin builds are fun for about 10 minutes for everyone else.
Inb4 crossbow expert.
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Yes, though on some level that's also my point. "No rules! You can do anything!" "So anyway here are a bunch of rules hamstringing casters because I don't like them when they do anything more than cast one buff spell and concentrate on it." "Wish? Not Wish! We'll make the spell practically kill you if you even try doing something with a spell that allows some creativity instead of the 9000th casting of magic missile!"

I'm having much more fun with systems that actually have fewer rules and low restrictions, where the munchkining somehow manages to be less of a problem. But that's a D&D thing: it's always been a highly combat-focused game with a ton of rules.
 
SouthernBitchBob said:
I'm having much more fun with systems that actually have fewer rules and low restrictions, where the munchkining somehow manages to be less of a problem.
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Its less of a problem for the same reason Paranoia never has a munchkin problem: If you start to munchkin, the GM just kills you in the most violent way possible, new (non-munchkin) character/clone.
 
Ghostse said:
Its less of a problem for the same reason Paranoia never has a munchkin problem: If you start to munchkin, the GM just kills you in the most violent way possible, new (non-munchkin) character/clone.
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Eh, if I go back to D&D I'd stick to an older edition. Not just for troon gatekeeping, but because I like my casters without video gamey "the designer of this system is an assmad Fighter player who hates that casters could have more than one spell going at a time" rules. "You can't wear these boots you just found, your necklace and ring have taken up your attunement slots! Oh but swords don't count toward attunement for arbitrary videogame reasons because I only hate mages, not fighters."🤷‍♂️
 
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SouthernBitchBob said:
I'm having much more fun with systems that actually have fewer rules and low restrictions, where the munchkining somehow manages to be less of a problem. But that's a D&D thing: it's always been a highly combat-focused game with a ton of rules.
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One of the great things about this Rifts game is Rifts practically comes with a Munchkin Society Platinum Membership.

Dude has 700+ MDC for his main body. He takes half from lasers.

Rules for combat. Rules for spells. Rules for psionics.

THOUSANDS of pages for munchkin gear, OCC's, RCC's.

"I'll grab the Balrog by the neck and shoot him in the face with the Boom Gun!"
 
Don't know about 5e but dnd 3.5 does have a lot of 'gm-may-I?' moments. How available are consumables, spells, downtime? How does the gm interpret various ambiguously worded rules? Can you bring some animals with you like dogs or donkeys? (almost every gm will say yes, when in actuality no, no you can't).

I think a lot of it stems from the original dnd having a much stronger focus on dungeoncrawling. Might have helped ground some of the more ambiguous stuff.
 
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