Tabletop Community Watch

  • Want to keep track of this thread?
    Accounts can bookmark posts, watch threads for updates, and jump back to where you stopped reading.
    Create account
This is something that's been sort of puzzling me recently. 4e got a huge amount of backlash for trying to force players to play on a grid, sure. But now everybody and their dog familiar plays on Roll20 or some other virtual tabletop service, with grid maps and tokens (which are basically minis with stolen DeviantArt assets). I would not be surprised if they tried another push towards grid-exclusivity, including selling more grid-related merch and tools. Modular cardboard dungeon tiles, shit like that.
It's the mass combat and grinding nature of combat of 4e combined with making most classes play about the same due to their special abilities that really did it IMO. Earlier editions did use grids, since it was kind of the only way to cast spells correctly, given you need to have certain dimensions for things like cones, cubes, spheres, and lines.

Also there's a world of difference between having single token or figure to represent your character and in having to have a bunch of them to represent your retinue. Actually bringing your lordly retinue you'd gain in older DnD into a fight would turn a simple encounter into a big old slog.

4e mostly got shit on because they changed way too much and changed the playstyle to be closer to Chainmail. And cool, there's players that like that, we see them here. But the clear majority did not want a Minis game where enemies took forever to kill.
 
https://youtube.com/watch?v=CNiQO2RhWpI
The theological autism of the OSR has come to a head. Autistic screeching was had and if you find that shit as funny as I do you may like this video.

In the OSR there are two main camps to this debate. Essentially based around what version of DnD you prefer and how you want to play it. On the one hand you have B/X and BECMI style of play. Rules are looser. GM is expected to get shit done and should be respected for doing so, you can fudge rules if you like. So on. I came into the OSR through B/X derived games like Lamentations of the Flame Princess. So at first I had a bias towards this style of play.

On the other side you have "The BrOSR" who prefer AD&D 1st edition. Specifically they prefer the game played RAW (Rules as Written, it has nothing to do with Vince McMahon.). This includes using rules that a lot of GMs would object to nowadays despite being in black and white on the page with advice from Gygax himself on how to use them. This includes rules such as a 1:1 timescale. They can be incredibly autistic and obnoxious about how they feel their way is the only correct way to play DnD and no one else is really playing DnD at all.

There's a lot to go over and I'm simply not smart enough to do it. Suffice to say, AD&D 1st ed if you look at the rules as they were written was clearly trying to shepard people back to wargaming. It''s right there in both the player book and DMG that eventually players start to run kingdoms at 9th level and have these giant almost grand strategy games. The rules are there. It's up to you to use them. The problem is RPG Pundit, Venger and the other guy just scream over and over at the BrOSR guy when he's trying to explain exactly where his opinions come from with the correct citations. He points to things Arneson and Gygax have said in interviews and above all what they said in the Rulebook. But Pundit just can't seem to get his head out of his ass and engage with the other autist.

If you want some examples of BrOSR style of play then look at this
https://youtube.com/watch?v=fjiRrzxynPQThis twitter thread
And this post informing on what the BrOSR actually is.

There is a lot of autism involved here. Which may turn some off. But I personally am really starting to clock on to the BrOSR style of gaming. And want to see if I can do the sort of living world thing they are.
Holy fucking shit those comments.
Dem Comments.png

Also, I've heard people describing a "NuSR", ie games that are part of the OSR fold but are descended from it philosophically rather than mechanically. Stuff like Mörk Borg.
 
Holy fucking shit those comments.
View attachment 3171894
Also, I've heard people describing a "NuSR", ie games that are part of the OSR fold but are descended from it philosophically rather than mechanically. Stuff like Mörk Borg.
Forgive me the retardation, but are these guys talking about what I think they're talking about when they praise 1:1 time?
 
I get what the BrOSR guys are doing, and that if you're doing what they're doing properly everyone shouldn't need to put in more than 15 minutes a day into responses, but jesus christ I want to play a game not have another job. Being a virgin is a hobby, not a fucking career holy shit.
But if that's what they like, I guess more power to them.

There's a lot to go over and I'm simply not smart enough to do it. Suffice to say, AD&D 1st ed if you look at the rules as they were written was clearly trying to shepard people back to wargaming. It''s right there in both the player book and DMG that eventually players start to run kingdoms at 9th level and have these giant almost grand strategy games. The rules are there. It's up to you to use them.

While B/X and BECMI are mostly used interchangeably, this is one of the cases where they differ. B/X ruleset, that is D&D Basic (because for the starter set/basic set Basic and Expert rules were combined) stops at lvl 9-14 depending on class; your GM was supposed to have killed you before then, and doesn't give rules or suggestions for "what next" (beyond building a base and attracting followers, but gives no mechanics for following that up, because that was covered in the 3rd book).

BECMI is the full pathway from being a 1HD cannon fodder to being a literal god, and covers how you engage in campaigns all the way to god-hood, but this stuff is meant to be fairly abstracted. All the books ore more or less thrown into a blender and run through a seive to create AD&D.

AD&D was not so much about wargaming but a general injection of sperg-tier logistics and additional class options (The sperg-tier logistics could then be scaled up to war gaming). The dungeon masters guide is more about giving probability advice to a prospective GM and Gygax explaining the game's intent than anything about rules.

This includes using rules that a lot of GMs would object to nowadays despite being in black and white on the page with advice from Gygax himself [ ... ]This includes rules such as a 1:1 timescale.

Hold up, homeslice. If anyone said Gygax intended for 1:1 time, they are sorely and sadly mistaken. Gygax DID say, and I've come to agree with him more and more, that rigorous time keeping is important in games (That is, things happen at set times and you need to have the journey to the next town take 3 days, 3 hours, and 12 minutes instead of just "You arrive after plot days of travel") because it creates a sense of danger, urgency, and generally to make your players feel like what they are doing is important*.He also says its important to keep track of what everyone is doing, and for how long so everyone's time lines sync up. (this being to account for players who may not attend every session).
Its also important to have characters age (and die of old age) in proper time.

But no where does he say that you be running games in real time. If fact I generally got the opposite impression with the sliding time scales for fighting, exploring, and traveling.

The BrOSR guy isn't wrong that you shouldn't go from scrub to god in 3 weeks of game time, but that also doesn't mean that you're supposed to be running 1 day = 1 day. When you send a guy on a 40-day journey to the Ruins of Yur So'shal Ife, it should be resolved as soon as 40 days of in-game time have ellapsed, not "we'll find out in a month!".

edit: just re-read my 1eADMG, the only time Gygax implies 1:1 time is in combat where its suggested players be penalized for dithering by saying they did nothing for the round, and otherwise taking player hesitation as character hesitation. That's not 1:1 time, that's "decide quick this is combat". Other than that, you just need to make sure everyone is tracking where their characters are and what they are doing.

*Properly tuning that timing is rather difficult


This is something that's been sort of puzzling me recently. 4e got a huge amount of backlash for trying to force players to play on a grid, sure. But now everybody and their dog familiar plays on Roll20 or some other virtual tabletop service, with grid maps and tokens (which are basically minis with stolen DeviantArt assets). I would not be surprised if they tried another push towards grid-exclusivity, including selling more grid-related merch and tools. Modular cardboard dungeon tiles, shit like that.

Already done my friend.

I generally liked dungeon tiles, except that they didn't like to stay put and you needed to use like some sticky tack to get them to stay put, but then they weren't level. They should have printed them on a ferrous/magnetic material so you could at least get them to hold still on a magnet board or something. Good idea, good art, but just didn't work

To respond to both you and @Adamska
I like map gaming just as a case of keeping everyone on the same page with location. For B/X sort of things where its just "Melee/Close/Far" and movement is going up or down one increment, its less important and theater of the mind can easily just have chaotic battles shift around the room.
With any D&D over 3.x where spells have ranges that sometimes go up and down on 5 foot increments based on modifiers/level, you need to keep fairly rigorous tracking, and you're on a grid.
I guess I view grid gaming as a necessary & tolerable evil, and its nice in digital table tops when you can auto-set distances so people don't have to count.
 
Last edited:
I do use grids and maps, I'm just pointing out that I tend to enjoy full on big battles and grinding fights far less. Give me an abandoned ruin, an ancient temple, a planar pocket dimension to run, and I'm happy as hell. I love designing dungeons and road trips over set piece battles.
 
While his videos are sometimes entertaining and undeniably provide helpful advice and tips, especially for people who are just getting into the hobby, I have always thought there was something off about Guy from Midwinter Minis. There's just something about the man that makes him seem deeply unlikable - he just seems sort of smug and all too pleased with himself and his 'nicey-nicey' persona strikes me as really insincere and slimy. It doesn't help that he reeks of Mummy and Daddy's money, even before all the Patreon cucksbucks are factored into the equation.


I think it was his pathetic attempt to try and get Henry Cavill to play Warhammer with him that changed my opinion from finding him somewhat annoying to actively disliking him. That shit was fucking embarrassing and came off as really manipulative. "Hey, internationally known and recognised star of multibillion dollar Hollywood movies, I am some fuck with a YouTube channel, do you want to play Warhammer with me, please? It'll be great! We'll do it for charidee, so it's fine if you refuse, it just clearly means you hate sick children."
 
While his videos are sometimes entertaining and undeniably provide helpful advice and tips, especially for people who are just getting into the hobby, I have always thought there was something off about Guy from Midwinter Minis. There's just something about the man that makes him seem deeply unlikable - he just seems sort of smug and all too pleased with himself and his 'nicey-nicey' persona strikes me as really insincere and slimy. It doesn't help that he reeks of Mummy and Daddy's money, even before all the Patreon cucksbucks are factored into the equation.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=7JwdV8C7QRU
I think it was his pathetic attempt to try and get Henry Cavill to play Warhammer with him that changed my opinion from finding him somewhat annoying to actively disliking him. That shit was fucking embarrassing and came off as really manipulative. "Hey, internationally known and recognised star of multibillion dollar Hollywood movies, I am some fuck with a YouTube channel, do you want to play Warhammer with me, please? It'll be great! We'll do it for charidee, so it's fine if you refuse, it just clearly means you hate sick children."
He's a standard boiler plate middle class wanker. He thinks he's a good person due to a combination of his background and politics. Instead of any actual actions he has done. Everything is an excuse to look down on and discriminate against people he deems lesser. These are not nice people. They are smug bastards. This idiot probably voted Remain as well the shitter.
 
I know who fucking Hellhound was. Good ol' M. Jason "Hellhound" Parent did jail time in Canada for child related crimes and was an avid supporter of NAMBLA in the early 2000's. He went to jail sometime after Ambient folded into ENPublishing, it was the hot topic on Nutkinland for a couple of months. Everyone knew about it back then. It was a major topic of discussion on the ENWorld IRC channel too. That, and if you were published through Ambien before they were absorbed by ENPublishing you couldn't get paid because the agreement was with Denise and Jason, not with ENPublishing even though ENPublishing had the books still for sale on RPGNow.

He was notorious for not paying contributors to Ambient or ENPublishing and hiding the sales numbers while with both, although some said it was his wife that did the majority of the hiding. A lot of the guys who helped get Ambient off the ground didn't get paid at all and some got paid almost nothing, which was another scandal that erupted after he went to jail and his wife stopped answering any and all emails from contributors. IIRC he started with "Portable Hole Full of Beer" and branched out from there in the early days.
I remember hearing about that. I didn't know about the child crimes but I do know that guy was basically scamming people. They may have been incompetent or amateurs, but damn it, you don't screw people over that way. Fuck that guy in particular. (cast finger of death)
And Venger? His real name is Darrick, I genuinely don't bother with his nomme de plume he stole from a kid's show, and he has a thread that goes into his idiocy. He's also openly admitted on more than one occasion he thinks his setting's real in another universe, wants the Dimensional Merge to happen. Oh, and recently has advocated lobotomizing everyone below the poverty line too.
We can give him an award for that last bit another time, lol.

Jokes aside, I've seen faggots trying to stir shit up with him on Pundit's place and he's like 'lolwatever, gonna go run a con'. He may be a dipshit but maybe he's learned it's best to, as the Sinatra song goes, do it his way.
 
We can give him an award for that last bit another time, lol.

Jokes aside, I've seen faggots trying to stir shit up with him on Pundit's place and he's like 'lolwatever, gonna go run a con'. He may be a dipshit but maybe he's learned it's best to, as the Sinatra song goes, do it his way.
lol no he doesn't. He still lashes out if you criticize his works, just not as often since he hides in a hugbox and mostly just does it to fans who ask questions or at sniping game stores who banned his books due to his lack of filter. He threw a fit over being asked to tweak his terrible BASIC clone and did it reluctantly and with much bitching after years of asking for rebalancing.

He tried to brigade people who bought OSE recently too. He only has learned to be better about it because he spent years and years throwing fits at people who criticize him.
 
Last edited:
We can give him an award for that last bit another time, lol.

Jokes aside, I've seen faggots trying to stir shit up with him on Pundit's place and he's like 'lolwatever, gonna go run a con'. He may be a dipshit but maybe he's learned it's best to, as the Sinatra song goes, do it his way.
Darrick is a cow, but he's: 1 - pathetic, and; 2 - easy to lose among the mooing of far louder and more earnest cows in the tabletop RPG sphere.

As @Adamska said, every now and then Darrick pokes his head out to say or do something stupid but he mostly sticks to his echo chamber.
 
While his videos are sometimes entertaining and undeniably provide helpful advice and tips, especially for people who are just getting into the hobby, I have always thought there was something off about Guy from Midwinter Minis. There's just something about the man that makes him seem deeply unlikable - he just seems sort of smug and all too pleased with himself and his 'nicey-nicey' persona strikes me as really insincere and slimy. It doesn't help that he reeks of Mummy and Daddy's money, even before all the Patreon cucksbucks are factored into the equation.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=7JwdV8C7QRU
I think it was his pathetic attempt to try and get Henry Cavill to play Warhammer with him that changed my opinion from finding him somewhat annoying to actively disliking him. That shit was fucking embarrassing and came off as really manipulative. "Hey, internationally known and recognised star of multibillion dollar Hollywood movies, I am some fuck with a YouTube channel, do you want to play Warhammer with me, please? It'll be great! We'll do it for charidee, so it's fine if you refuse, it just clearly means you hate sick children."

The guy actually makes some good points [shared home town, etc], but he's just too favor-grovelling (being really obsequious while also asking for a favor). He's laying out how little is needed, and logistic details - things that SHOULD be hammered out with Cavill's handlers, not used to try to guilt him into complying.
"Fellow Jersey Native Henry, I see you're into Warhammer 40K. Let's do a charity battle! We can talk about good times at the Little Shop and being from a tiny island while playing 40K. We'll play any edition you're familiar with,or teach you 9th. We're in london, so if you're interested we'll work out details!" - AKA we'll schedule shit with your assistant, and we'll grovel privately to them.
Also, even if you did meet him, you didn't have a meaningful enough encounter to remember his name. So he sure as shit doesn't remember yours (and if he did, it wouldn't be for a good reason) so stop trying to bring that up.

If you want to do these things and not be a faggot:
First way, would be to build your brand of "Famous People Charity Stream". Do a stream with local/small celebrities. You will demonstrate your ability to work with real talent and not be clout chasing annoying fanboy. Once you've got a few episodes in the bag, you should have contacts with publicists, and leverage those into getting Superman to boost your channel to the moon.

Second way would be to try to start a Charity tourny. Advertise it, get some buzz, and then as part of the publicity push challenge Cavill to something silly like a "God Emperor of Jersey" battle to determine who's the better player from Jersey.

Hell, reach out to GW and say "Hey fags, big channel here. I have a hertiage-in with Henry Cavill. Can you help me get Superman on my channel? Think of how many new paypigs you'll get."
 
Last edited:
Jersey as an island is only famous for tax avoidance schemes and paedophile sex rings (presumably that's what he means by 'slightly dodgy' in that part of the video) so if it were me, I wouldn't be going around bragging about coming from there, personally.

I can't say I'm especially fond of his missus, Penny, either. Whenever she pops up in his videos, she seems an insufferable whinging Scottish harridan. I rather suspect Guy forced her to be a part of his YouTube videos to be honest - most likely as an attempt to seem more 'normal'. "You think Warhammer's for creepy nerdy men? Ha ha, don't be silly. I'm Guy from Midwinter Minis and I'm non-threateningly nice, largely well groomed and even have a real life girlfriend!"

She expresses no interest or knowledge of the hobby, and a lot of the time, is quite openly contemptuous and disrespectful of her husband's manchildy interest in stupid overpriced plastic soldiers. To be fair to her, I suppose, she is a doctor, so she actually works for a living doing something useful, while her spouse twats around with nerd shit on YouTube as his full time job.
 
Last edited:
You could always get yourself an 3D printer, considering how expensive some of the Titans are.

But seriously, it's mostly an matter of people burning paycheck after paycheck for the ever-changing meta and they have every right to get angry at the guy who "pirates" his shit.
I will say as someone who is actually 3D printing a Titan it's not easy and it will be expensive. Just not as expensive as buying one from GW. I'm building mine from a combination of resin and PLA and I think I've spent about £150 worth of materials so far. With at least another £100 to £150 to go.
 
Holy fucking shit those comments.
View attachment 3171894
Also, I've heard people describing a "NuSR", ie games that are part of the OSR fold but are descended from it philosophically rather than mechanically. Stuff like Mörk Borg.
Wait... Jeffro as in Jeffro Johnson of the Appendix N book? (Which I have)
So weird the people I run into here. I quite enjoyed that book as an examination of why some things in D&D are the way they are.
 
Wait... Jeffro as in Jeffro Johnson of the Appendix N book? (Which I have)
So weird the people I run into here. I quite enjoyed that book as an examination of why some things in D&D are the way they are.

Jeffro is weird as fuck on Twitter. He practically treats old school D&D like a religion, and he's a hardshell pastor of it. I honestly can't tell if it's a goof or not, but he sure seems sincere.
 
I remember the AD&D grognards bitching that Wizards of the Coast was going to do just that back when they bought up TSR and 3e was announced.

Missed it by two editions, I guess.
I bet their fans will eat that shit up though. Can you imagine how many greasy 40 year old men will buy MLP trading cards and play an MLP roleplaying game in 5th edition?
 
Look morty! I'm D&D Canon now! I'm D&D Canon Rick!
I got bad news...
(2018!)

I bet their fans will eat that shit up though. Can you imagine how many greasy 40 year old men will buy MLP trading cards and play an MLP roleplaying game in 5th edition?
The CCG and RPG of MLP has been out for years now. You can even get MLP minis.
 
Back
Top Bottom