Tabletop Community Watch

[SiccDicc]

They could tell? I did some research for unrelated reasons and plenty of youtubers even admit it's all the same shit but Citadel has funny names for their paints.

They probably have a specific light that makes their special paint glow and when they find out yours doesn't they screech at you and everything goes dark.

 

[Inquisitor_BadAss]

They could tell? I did some research for unrelated reasons and plenty of youtubers even admit it's all the same shit but Citadel has funny names for their paints.

Its not that they can tell as your effectively advertising another brand. Their whole store is one big advertisement for the game. People painting at tables and playing games of 40K, Sigmar etc are again advertising it to everyone who comes into the store.
When GW opened the Warhammer cafe in Texas the store was meme’d hardcore with people asking on Facebook if they were allowed to play models painted or based with other companies brands and GW foolish as they are took the bait, said no to each time but eventually just took down the posts.

 

[NerdShamer]

I guess this is just as good of a place to ask. I know very little about Warhammer 40k or its culture but I'm aware of the stereotype that fans pay out the ass for miniatures and it gave me the impression that you can't just use placeholders. Is there any real reason for this?

You could always get yourself an 3D printer, considering how expensive some of the Titans are.

But seriously, it's mostly an matter of people burning paycheck after paycheck for the ever-changing meta and they have every right to get angry at the guy who "pirates" his shit.

 

[Jet Fuel Johnny]

Got proof? ...or are you just making shit up?

Hellhound is M. Jason Parent. He's a decent game designer. It would be tragic if what you're saying is true. The world should be made aware of the truth whatever it may be.

I know who fucking Hellhound was. Good ol' M. Jason "Hellhound" Parent did jail time in Canada for child related crimes and was an avid supporter of NAMBLA in the early 2000's. He went to jail sometime after Ambient folded into ENPublishing, it was the hot topic on Nutkinland for a couple of months. Everyone knew about it back then. It was a major topic of discussion on the ENWorld IRC channel too. That, and if you were published through Ambien before they were absorbed by ENPublishing you couldn't get paid because the agreement was with Denise and Jason, not with ENPublishing even though ENPublishing had the books still for sale on RPGNow.

He was notorious for not paying contributors to Ambient or ENPublishing and hiding the sales numbers while with both, although some said it was his wife that did the majority of the hiding. A lot of the guys who helped get Ambient off the ground didn't get paid at all and some got paid almost nothing, which was another scandal that erupted after he went to jail and his wife stopped answering any and all emails from contributors. IIRC he started with "Portable Hole Full of Beer" and branched out from there in the early days.

 

[Inquisitor_BadAss]

You could always get yourself an 3D printer, considering how expensive some of the Titans are.

But seriously, it's mostly an matter of people burning paycheck after paycheck for the ever-changing meta and they have every right to get angry at the guy who "pirates" his shit.

Can’t wait to see all those Harlequin armies on eBay next week.

 

[Second Missing Primarch]

Can’t wait to see all those Harlequin armies on eBay next week.

Honestly, it was funny as hell to read that Warhammer Community article that said, basically, "Oh shit, we didn't expect Harlequins to be this good, time to get out the big nerf bat." And of course all the new Tyranid stuff drops this weekend.

 

[Ghostse]

They could tell? I did some research for unrelated reasons and plenty of youtubers even admit it's all the same shit but Citadel has funny names for their paints.

I think the difference used to be more pronounced, but some of the shades are slightly different and I guess on the table you can tell when it is up against "official" color. Mainly people got got for having the VERBOTTEN! third-party paint pots in their craft setups when pulling out armies. I guess at tourneys they encourage the refs to be completely anal and if there is any metal plastic showing to require it get painted before you can place it. So you need to be ready to to touchups (or ready new models) and they will kick you out if you aren't using OFFICIAL CITADEL paints.
My GW employee friend said there was a guy who had the right paints, but had moved them from the citadel pots to dropper bottles. Event Ref made him go buy new pots.

 

[NerdShamer]

I think the difference used to be more pronounced, but some of the shades are slightly different and I guess on the table you can tell when it is up against "official" color. Mainly people got got for having the VERBOTTEN! third-party paint pots in their craft setups when pulling out armies. I guess at tourneys they encourage the refs to be completely anal and if there is any metal plastic showing to require it get painted before you can place it. So you need to be ready to to touchups (or ready new models) and they will kick you out if you aren't using OFFICIAL CITADEL paints.
My GW employee friend said there was a guy who had the right paints, but had moved them from the citadel pots to dropper bottles. Event Ref made him go buy new pots.

Dude, I don't even play 40K and this is an good way to scare people away from their tournaments.

 

[Jet Fuel Johnny]

Saying all of that is informative, but after looking it all up I can find no actual proof of any of your statements. Do you have any actual proof? It isn't that I don't believe you, I just want to be able to prove it to others before I say anything about it to them.

I don't have the old chat logs and stuff, no. Nor do I have the old Nutkinland threads archived that had the information.

As for ripping people off, you can always ask the people who originally published with him.

 

[Jet Fuel Johnny]

What about police records or news clippings. There must be something...or does Canada hide that shit? Don't they have a pedo watch list?

I never looked it up. I just tried to find out why he wasn't paying anyone and got told flat out he'd gone to jail, asked a few people at Nutkinland and got the skinny on it.

 

[Wormy]

I think the difference used to be more pronounced, but some of the shades are slightly different and I guess on the table you can tell when it is up against "official" color. Mainly people got got for having the VERBOTTEN! third-party paint pots in their craft setups when pulling out armies. I guess at tourneys they encourage the refs to be completely anal and if there is any metal plastic showing to require it get painted before you can place it. So you need to be ready to to touchups (or ready new models) and they will kick you out if you aren't using OFFICIAL CITADEL paints.
My GW employee friend said there was a guy who had the right paints, but had moved them from the citadel pots to dropper bottles. Event Ref made him go buy new pots.

Christ on a Waffle, if they saw the mass of Apple Barrel and Folkart in my supply trays, they'd probably shit kittens.

 

[I'mma real anime gurl]

I think the difference used to be more pronounced, but some of the shades are slightly different and I guess on the table you can tell when it is up against "official" color. Mainly people got got for having the VERBOTTEN! third-party paint pots in their craft setups when pulling out armies. I guess at tourneys they encourage the refs to be completely anal and if there is any metal plastic showing to require it get painted before you can place it. So you need to be ready to to touchups (or ready new models) and they will kick you out if you aren't using OFFICIAL CITADEL paints.
My GW employee friend said there was a guy who had the right paints, but had moved them from the citadel pots to dropper bottles. Event Ref made him go buy new pots.

Is the Event Ref fucking special. I hope to god he's retarded so that it can possibly excuse his retardation.

 

[Ghostse]

Is the Event Ref fucking special. I hope to god he's retarded so that it can possibly excuse his retardation.

So source:
I have friend who worked for GW. They have nothing good to say about the company.
Now this was GW in Cuckistan (Europe) so maybe it is different in the US, their knowledge might also be dated, and it is also possible that the store they worked at was uniquely fucked up, but they said their experiences matched with other people they talked to and continued after they left.

Anyway every employee at GW is given "store rules" which amount to "Sell anything you can to anyone who walks in the store, keep out anything that isn't GW: materials, words, ideas.". They literally were given cringey sample scripts from corporate on how to turn nerds talking about The world's most popular roleplaying game to topics related to GW properties like Warhams and Mordheim.
You were either helping interacting with customers, organizing/cleaning, or you were visibly performing some sort of GW task like building/painting minis. After release of new models/rules (I think Chaos?): two employees were playing warhams: onewith the Hot New Models and dominating the other guy with the old & busted previous meta darling. Another employee, paid but in street clothes, had his Hot New Army set up to bait other people into playing(army composition mandated by corporate, with instructions on how to use new rules/units to stomp any other army that rolled up). A fourth employee, paid but also in street clothes, was building and painting the cool new units at the painting bench. All this to advertise the new plastic and get the WAAC crowd to drop more money so they can keep being King Autist.

Again, all of this was rigorously enforced by store management because they had regional management up their ass; Friend's first boss was punishment transfered to a store in a worse market an hour away because while he'd hit his total sales numbers, he hadn't moved enough of the newly released books and minis, so he was out.

Anyway, tl;dr: Rules about pushing GW product are enforced by management who's jobs and bonuses are determined by how much inventory they move.

So the Event Ref is usually a GW employee voluntold to be Event Ref. On normal "Come and meet the other people who wasted hundreds of dollars on plastic spacemen" days, the Refs might be a little more lax because management isn't breathing down their necks - let you get away with unpainted minis, weird kitbash, etc.

At official tourney events, the Ref is told be anal and usually a manager and/or GW corpo rep is there watching the Ref ensuring they are. There were hardcore anal rules like minis had to be painted with minimum of three different colors, and they had to be built with ONLY official GW components/components from their sprue - Orks got leeway as long as the extra kit was "decorative". For the higher-level "this will influence lore" tourneys, you not only had to have your minis painted but they had to be painted with a GW approved official color scheme, which resulted in a Chaos Marines player playing with wet minis because he'd borrowed some units for the tourney and they weren't a KHORNE color scheme, and had been told he had 30 minutes to fix it or he'd forfeit the match.

 

[Flaming Insignias]

So source:
I have friend who worked for GW. They have nothing good to say about the company.
Now this was GW in Cuckistan (Europe) so maybe it is different in the US, their knowledge might also be dated, and it is also possible that the store they worked at was uniquely fucked up, but they said their experiences matched with other people they talked to and continued after they left.

Anyway every employee at GW is given "store rules" which amount to "Sell anything you can to anyone who walks in the store, keep out anything that isn't GW: materials, words, ideas.". They literally were given cringey sample scripts from corporate on how to turn nerds talking about The world's most popular roleplaying game to topics related to GW properties like Warhams and Mordheim.
You were either helping interacting with customers, organizing/cleaning, or you were visibly performing some sort of GW task like building/painting minis. After release of new models/rules (I think Chaos?): two employees were playing warhams: onewith the Hot New Models and dominating the other guy with the old & busted previous meta darling. Another employee, paid but in street clothes, had his Hot New Army set up to bait other people into playing(army composition mandated by corporate, with instructions on how to use new rules/units to stomp any other army that rolled up). A fourth employee, paid but also in street clothes, was building and painting the cool new units at the painting bench. All this to advertise the new plastic and get the WAAC crowd to drop more money so they can keep being King Autist.

Again, all of this was rigorously enforced by store management because they had regional management up their ass; Friend's first boss was punishment transfered to a store in a worse market an hour away because while he'd hit his total sales numbers, he hadn't moved enough of the newly released books and minis, so he was out.

Anyway, tl;dr: Rules about pushing GW product are enforced by management who's jobs and bonuses are determined by how much inventory they move.

So the Event Ref is usually a GW employee voluntold to be Event Ref. On normal "Come and meet the other people who wasted hundreds of dollars on plastic spacemen" days, the Refs might be a little more lax because management isn't breathing down their necks - let you get away with unpainted minis, weird kitbash, etc.

At official tourney events, the Ref is told be anal and usually a manager and/or GW corpo rep is there watching the Ref ensuring they are. There were hardcore anal rules like minis had to be painted with minimum of three different colors, and they had to be built with ONLY official GW components/components from their sprue - Orks got leeway as long as the extra kit was "decorative". For the higher-level "this will influence lore" tourneys, you not only had to have your minis painted but they had to be painted with a GW approved official color scheme, which resulted in a Chaos Marines player playing with wet minis because he'd borrowed some units for the tourney and they weren't a KHORNE color scheme, and had been told he had 30 minutes to fix it or he'd forfeit the match.

Sounds like the GW everyone knows and “loves.” They love selling their plastic crack and pushing new metas to force more spending, and then they top off this obsessive behavior at the table by also deploying their copyright armies against fanmade content to make sure they are the sole provider of Warhams to the public. There's a reason they have become known as the EA of Tabletop Gaming, and I know they will somehow top this shifty behavior in a few years once people have started to forget the ruination of Alfabusa.

 

[Second Missing Primarch]

On normal "Come and meet the other people who wasted hundreds of dollars on plastic spacemen" days, the Refs might be a little more lax because management isn't breathing down their necks - let you get away with unpainted minis, weird kitbash, etc.

That was more or less my experience at the Warhammer store I used to frequent here in the States. The manager was gonna sell you stuff if he could, but if some people came in for a pickup match or whatever, he didn't fuss about unpainted minis or the three-color rule. I saw plenty of casual matches at the store where guys fielded an unpainted army or one with a basecoat and nothing else.

 

[NerdShamer]

Come to think of it, has there ever been an Chapter that unintentionally violates the "three color" rule? I know that an lot of them has either an black, gold, or white trim on their pauldrons; or their badge is either gold or silver for their specialists and officers.

It feels like that it's an easy rule that should be impossible to violate if you're just sticking with the 9 main loyal chapters; but either the Iron Hands or the Raven Guard would be the one getting screwed over by it.

 

[Ghostse]

Come to think of it, has there ever been an Chapter that unintentionally violates the "three color" rule? I know that an lot of them has either an black, gold, or white trim on their pauldrons; or their badge is either gold or silver for their specialists and officers.

It feels like that it's an easy rule that should be impossible to violate if you're just sticking with the 9 main loyal chapters; but either the Iron Hands or the Raven Guard would be the one getting screwed over by it.

Then it'd be Basecoat/Highlight/metalic on the weapon.

That was more or less my experience at the Warhammer store I used to frequent here in the States. The manager was gonna sell you stuff if he could, but if some people came in for a pickup match or whatever, he didn't fuss about unpainted minis or the three-color rule. I saw plenty of casual matches at the store where guys fielded an unpainted army or one with a basecoat and nothing else.

They were very lax if booked a table (not even caring you used *gasp* proxies; as long as the proxies were generic shit like dice/bottlecaps/empty bases/other GW minis) because they didn't supply a Ref so anything went as long as it wasn't another company's minis.
When you came to an official store weekly "come and play with other paypigs" day, there was at least one employee dedicated to watching the proceedings and resolving disputes and giving an "official" score. At those times you just needed GW minis with a shot of primer, and if both players agreed on using minis to proxy other minis, the ref would usually just let it go. They would get pissy, but not toss you out, for non-GW paints as long as you didn't paint things in store with them.
But if there was a special event, i.e. new minis out!, since there was some sort of give away involved the refs were more anal about making sure there was no proxying and minis had at least basecoat + highlight. If you were found with non-GW paints in your box, they'd look at your minis and would DQ you if your colors didn't look right, or unless you could fix it.

When it was a tourney, it was full anal retension autism. See: Khorne guy having to throw paint on minis that weren't the right color scheme

 

[Steinercard]

The theological autism of the OSR has come to a head. Autistic screeching was had and if you find that shit as funny as I do you may like this video.

In the OSR there are two main camps to this debate. Essentially based around what version of DnD you prefer and how you want to play it. On the one hand you have B/X and BECMI style of play. Rules are looser. GM is expected to get shit done and should be respected for doing so, you can fudge rules if you like. So on. I came into the OSR through B/X derived games like Lamentations of the Flame Princess. So at first I had a bias towards this style of play.

On the other side you have "The BrOSR" who prefer AD&D 1st edition. Specifically they prefer the game played RAW (Rules as Written, it has nothing to do with Vince McMahon.). This includes using rules that a lot of GMs would object to nowadays despite being in black and white on the page with advice from Gygax himself on how to use them. This includes rules such as a 1:1 timescale. They can be incredibly autistic and obnoxious about how they feel their way is the only correct way to play DnD and no one else is really playing DnD at all.

There's a lot to go over and I'm simply not smart enough to do it. Suffice to say, AD&D 1st ed if you look at the rules as they were written was clearly trying to shepard people back to wargaming. It''s right there in both the player book and DMG that eventually players start to run kingdoms at 9th level and have these giant almost grand strategy games. The rules are there. It's up to you to use them. The problem is RPG Pundit, Venger and the other guy just scream over and over at the BrOSR guy when he's trying to explain exactly where his opinions come from with the correct citations. He points to things Arneson and Gygax have said in interviews and above all what they said in the Rulebook. But Pundit just can't seem to get his head out of his ass and engage with the other autist.

If you want some examples of BrOSR style of play then look at this

This twitter thread
And this post informing on what the BrOSR actually is.

There is a lot of autism involved here. Which may turn some off. But I personally am really starting to clock on to the BrOSR style of gaming. And want to see if I can do the sort of living world thing they are.

 

[Adamska]

Yeah no both sides are retarded.

I don't like minis gaming, and it's pretty demonstrable the majority of tabletop gamers hated the attempt to force the system back that way with 4e, despite it being looked at with some fondness here nowadays. I'd have disliked 1e ADnD played RaW because I like exploring dungeons, travelling lands, or resolving power struggles. I don't want to spam and paint minis, and I don't want my wallet to bleed over plastic or metal. I don't want to have to play big ass fight grinds; they don't interest me in the slightest. I'm already not a fan of BrOSR for that already.

Then throw in their smug superiority and true scotsman fuckery over being a minority of a minority, even more than PvP gamers in MMOs. So what if the rules are black and white on paper and Gygax wrote them? Rule 0 exists for a reason, and it's not like the creator of a system's rulings can't be changed either.

As for the Basics people, they run the gamut. And in that podcast's case, both of them are grifting idiots. Pundit, or John since it tilts him when you call him by his real tax name, is also a true scotsman style asshole. One who by the way insulted his other grifting buddy a bit earlier on an earlier stream by saying he's only beaten him on something once. Way to treat your grifting buddy there Tarnowski.

And Venger? His real name is Darrick, I genuinely don't bother with his nomme de plume he stole from a kid's show, and he has a thread that goes into his idiocy. He's also openly admitted on more than one occasion he thinks his setting's real in another universe, wants the Dimensional Merge to happen. Oh, and recently has advocated lobotomizing everyone below the poverty line too.

 

[Corn Flakes]

Yeah no both sides are retarded.

I don't like minis gaming, and it's pretty demonstrable the majority of tabletop gamers hated the attempt to force the system back that way with 4e, despite it being looked at with some fondness here nowadays. I'd have disliked 1e ADnD played RaW because I like exploring dungeons, travelling lands, or resolving power struggles. I don't want to spam and paint minis, and I don't want my wallet to bleed over plastic or metal. I don't want to have to play big ass fight grinds; they don't interest me in the slightest. I'm already not a fan of BrOSR for that already.

This is something that's been sort of puzzling me recently. 4e got a huge amount of backlash for trying to force players to play on a grid, sure. But now everybody and their dog familiar plays on Roll20 or some other virtual tabletop service, with grid maps and tokens (which are basically minis with stolen DeviantArt assets). I would not be surprised if they tried another push towards grid-exclusivity, including selling more grid-related merch and tools. Modular cardboard dungeon tiles, shit like that.