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Let's see how our modder friend who tried to convert Ultimate to Melee at the risk of bricking his Switch is doing.

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Woah, hey. You can beat quickplay Belmonts by using your shield button. Just play arenas if they make you that upset.

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"Why doesn't Ultimate have long combo chains and fast gameplay? I hate it."

"Pichu's combo chains are too long and he's too fast. I hate it"

At least he's finally being honest, though--but at the cost of a telling revelation:

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He says he plays Game and Watch, who is one of the worst characters in Melee. He's fun casually (or against low level players), but when you play serious players who actively try to bait you out, punish you, and space you, he's probably one of the least fun characters to play (for a variety of reasons--the biggest one being that his shield literally doesn't work). Say what you want as to how competitive play in essence removes a lot of the fun from the game because of that fact, but that's just how it is.

Which is substantial evidence to suggest that he doesn't actually play at a considerably high level. Which also means that both he and his opponents likewise don't play at a considerably high level. Which means that he's one of the 99% of Melee's fanbase who actually just watch tourneys rather than actually compete or place significantly. In other words, the quintessential stereotype of the Melee fan who goes to tourneys to spectate the same eight players play while they don't actually enter, and spend the rest of the tourney either booing other games, stinking up the place, or both.

Honestly, I kind of like how he checks every box in the "mindless Melee fanboy" criteria. More amusingly, his followers are somehow even more brainless and rabidly devoted to Melee than he is.
 
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I had to look up a Melee character list to find out who the fuck "gnw" is. What an autistic way to shorten Mr. Game & Watch.
 
Smash players don't play other games, there's no crossover. Also there's no such thing as "homey stocks" in the FGC. You take that round if your opponent pauses the game by accident. If your opponent stands up after round 2, thinking he won, you drop a 50 hit 100% anime combo on his ass before he can bury his head in his hands.

Had to look up what homie stocks are, and this showed up...

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Can someone explain what the hell this is in a non autistic way?:cringe:
 
It largely doesn't matter if some characters are played differently, the Top 8 is heavily dominated by the same few people playing the same few characters. I've singled out EVO but this is the same for all "smash majors".

Example

Evo 2018.
Leffen, Fox (1st), Armada, Fox (2nd), Plup, Shiek (3rd), Hungrybox, Jigglypuff (4th).

Evo 2017.
Armada, Peach/Fox (1st), Mango, Fox (2nd), Hungrybox, Jigglypuff (3rd), Mew2King, Shiek/Fox/Marth (4th)

Evo 2016.
Hungrybox, Jigglypuff (1st), Armada, Fox/Peach (2nd), Plup, Shiek/Fox (3rd), Mango, Fox/Falco (4th).

Evo 2015.
Armada, Fox/Peach (1st), Hungrybox, Jigglypuff (2nd), PPMD, Falco/Marth (3rd), Plup, Shiek/Samus (4th)

Evo 2014.
Mango, Fox (1st), Hungrybox, Jigglypuff (2nd), Armada, Peach (3rd), PPMD, Falco (4th).

Evo 2013.
Mango, Fox/Falco (1st), Wobbles, Ice Climbers (2nd), Hungrybox, Jigglypuff (3rd), Armada, Peach (4th).


That's top 4 for every recent Evo, just look how many fucking times you see the words "Fox", "Armada", "Hungrybox, Jigglypuff", "Plup", and "Mango". The biggest upset this game has had in a huge number of years was someone showing up to a tournament with some Ice Climbers bullshit in 2013 and they still couldn't beat Fox. The top 4 in SIX YEARS is occupied by EIGHT PEOPLE (and one of them, Wobbles, is a fluke). Fucking "Armada" is in the top 4 for ALL SIX YEARS STRAIGHT.

Comparing to 3S.

Evo 2003.
1st - KO
2nd - Daigo
3rd - KSK
4th - Ino

Evo 2004.
1st - KO
2nd - Diago
3rd - jwong
4th - Raoh

Evo 2005.
1st - Nuki
2nd - Jwong
3rd - Nitto
4th - Mester

Evo 2006.
1st - Nitto
2nd - Issei
3rd - Nuki
4th - Mester

Evo 2007.
1st - Nuki
2nd - Tokido
3rd - Calipower (Alex Valle)
4th - Makoto Mike

Evo 2008.
1st - Nuki
2nd - Jwong
3rd - Amir (Amirsaleh)
4th - Tokido

You don't have anything resembling the shenanigans in Melee here. Even though you have some repeats you have nearly 100% more diversity in the top 4 (15 top 4 in 3s vs Melee's 8 top 4s). This only gets worse as you go into Top 8, but I only have so much time.




Third Strike has features that should probably be in SF6 but these are very simple things to add. SF's current problem is the game is too offensively balanced (as in, Offensive/Rushdown has little risk and large reward) and that you don't have many (or any) defensive options when being attacked. This can easily be mitigated by adding in defensive options (parries are great, but you can also add moves with "armor", push blocks, or something entirely new). There's also the issue of input lag which is also very easy to fix (SF5 literally adds "online" lag to "offline" matches, so just turning this off would go a long way). These changes would add depth to the game and make it more offensive/defense balanced like 3S was.

Melee's features aren't "balance" oriented, they're re-inserting glitches into the game. Wavedashing is nonsense that is unfun to do or play against. It negates tons of penalties and gives already mobile characters even huger mobility.

Want to dash throw and not be vulnerable if you miss? Wavedash.
Want to attack and not be vulnerable to follow up? Wavedash.
Want to instant edge grab? Wavedash.
Want to move forward while still having access to standing normals and smashes? Wavedash.
Want to jump onto platforms without losing any mobility? Wavedash.
Want to land from a jump and negate all landing lag? Wavedash.

These are all specific situations that are supposed to generate an opening for your opponent if you do them incorrectly (missing a throw, whiffing an attack, trying to ledge position, changing position via jumping) or to be a trade off (your moves change while moving) that are all negated by wavedashing. This does not increase the depth of the game at all and makes wavedashing the most absurd, mega useful tool that you could ever have in Melee and is a pretty core skill to have.

A great solution that actually added depth to smash is putting Parry/PerfectShield into Ultimate. It's a very good risk/reward option at a high level of play, compared to Wavedashing that is very little risk and super huge reward.
You aren't wrong. Wavedashing essentially turns smash neutral into a game of joust (the arcade game), except two characters (fox and falco) can win from below. It's the most fundamental reason that fox and falco will always be dominant in this old ass game.
 
Had to look up what homie stocks are, and this showed up...


Can someone explain what the hell this is in a non autistic way?:cringe:
If your opponent accidentally kills themselves and loses a life, a "homie stock" is when you also kill yourself but on purpose to make the game even. I don't know why this justifies five paragraphs of explanation.
 
If your opponent accidentally kills themselves and loses a life, a "homie stock" is when you also kill yourself but on purpose to make the game even. I don't know why this justifies five paragraphs of explanation.
Didn’t that happen in the Smash 4 finals with two Bayonetta players and everyone got mad at them?
 
To be fair that was Evo grand finals. Not that I find home stocks to be a big deal like some did.
There was also some other stuff going on. The two Bayo players were kinda getting shit on the entire time for playing Bayo, and they were both friends, so they spent the first minute of the final match just charging their guns at each other as a kind of “fuck you” to the crowd that had been booing both of them the entire time(again, for playing Bayo).
 
There was also some other stuff going on. The two Bayo players were kinda getting shit on the entire time for playing Bayo, and they were both friends, so they spent the first minute of the final match just charging their guns at each other as a kind of “fuck you” to the crowd that had been booing both of them the entire time(again, for playing Bayo).
This is the kind of autism that sets the smash community apart from the greater FGC I think. I can't imagine two players taking what I'm imagining to be top tier characters (I don't know for sure, because I don't know shit about Smash's tierlists) to the grand finals at EVO, only to be booed for daring to use OP/top-tier characters.

Is that actually what happened?
 
This is the kind of autism that sets the smash community apart from the greater FGC I think. I can't imagine two players taking what I'm imagining to be top tier characters (I don't know for sure, because I don't know shit about Smash's tierlists) to the grand finals at EVO, only to be booed for daring to use OP/top-tier characters.

Is that actually what happened?
From what I understand Bayonetta was extremely OP in Smash 4 due to her combo ability and damage output, so less-talented Smash players could take on top contenders with her and win.

As for if it actually happened...
14:50 for when the players essentially decided to say “fuck it” and troll the audience.
 
This is the kind of autism that sets the smash community apart from the greater FGC I think. I can't imagine two players taking what I'm imagining to be top tier characters (I don't know for sure, because I don't know shit about Smash's tierlists) to the grand finals at EVO, only to be booed for daring to use OP/top-tier characters.

Is that actually what happened?
Bayo was considered unfun to watch and play against for various reasons, and there was a lot of negativity surrounding her for a while. The fact that grand finals was 2 Bayos already upset a ton of people. The 2 players aren’t exactly popular either. Both are highschool aged and are kind of dicks. They also aren’t as high profile as some other players and many claim they are carried by Bayo. While I believe that the community is largely at fault here, those two didn’t help the situation and made it worse.

This was smash 4’s last major tournament and it really left a bad taste for a lot of people. After that people just gave up on smash 4 and waited for ultimate. It’s disappointing that the attitudes in the community were never addressed but instead swept under the rug hoping the new game will fix everything. I feel like in a few years once the hype has died down the same shit will happen to ultimate too.
 
Bayo was considered unfun to watch and play against for various reasons, and there was a lot of negativity surrounding her for a while. The fact that grand finals was 2 Bayos already upset a ton of people. The 2 players aren’t exactly popular either. Both are highschool aged and are kind of dicks. They also aren’t as high profile as some other players and many claim they are carried by Bayo. While I believe that the community is largely at fault here, those two didn’t help the situation and made it worse.

This was smash 4’s last major tournament and it really left a bad taste for a lot of people. After that people just gave up on smash 4 and waited for ultimate. It’s disappointing that the attitudes in the community were never addressed but instead swept under the rug hoping the new game will fix everything. I feel like in a few years once the hype has died down the same shit will happen to ultimate too.
Definitely wasn’t a great thing to do, but I can’t blame the guys too much after dealing with all that the entire tournament.
 
From what I understand Bayonetta was extremely OP in Smash 4 due to her combo ability and damage output, so less-talented Smash players could take on top contenders with her and win.

As for if it actually happened...
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Q0Ee4FDDjOE14:50 for when the players essentially decided to say “fuck it” and troll the audience.
So it's about the way I imagined. Ouch.
You know what? Good for them. It's such a dick move, but I can't imagine how great it felt to troll all those people like that.
Bayo was considered unfun to watch and play against for various reasons, and there was a lot of negativity surrounding her for a while. The fact that grand finals was 2 Bayos already upset a ton of people. The 2 players aren’t exactly popular either. Both are highschool aged and are kind of dicks. They also aren’t as high profile as some other players and many claim they are carried by Bayo. While I believe that the community is largely at fault here, those two didn’t help the situation and made it worse.

This was smash 4’s last major tournament and it really left a bad taste for a lot of people. After that people just gave up on smash 4 and waited for ultimate. It’s disappointing that the attitudes in the community were never addressed but instead swept under the rug hoping the new game will fix everything. I feel like in a few years once the hype has died down the same shit will happen to ultimate too.
I think you're right. Dead on. Maybe a bit harsh towards the kids in my opinion as it mostly sounds like poor community management, but I don't know the full situation.

I think that if the character was a problem, then it should have been banned. If that had happened, these players (dicks or not) wouldn't have been an issue. There wouldn't have been any antagonism from the crowd, and this moment wouldn't have happened. I mean you can't really blame someone (especially some teens) for saying "fuck it, let's pick the broken option", when they know there's absolutely nothing stopping them.

Ultimately, it's hard not to blame to community for failing to address the issue in a adequate way that would've prevented this kind of problem from happening. And seeing their lack of a reaction, it's also hard not to think it could (and likely will) happen again. I think you're spot on there too.
Definitely wasn’t a great thing to do, but I can’t blame the guys too much after dealing with all that the entire tournament.

My thoughts exactly.
 
Another reason why Smash isn't FGC. You don't see the whole community collectively crying about an OP character, you watch it for what it is and enjoy how players play the OP characters differently. Hell when the Smash community was crying about Wobbles wobbling, the FGC embraced it and encouraged it.
I don't recall too much bitching about SF3S: Chun Li and Ken. SF4AE: Yun and MvC2: MSS/etc.
Off the top of my head I can only think of one banned character, and he was a secret character, Akuma in ST.
 
It's worth noting that at this point in the meta, up until evo, Cloud was considered slightly better than Bayo, and many pro players also put Diddy above her too. It's not like Bayo was heads and shoulders above the rest, people just hate fighting her, and by extension grow to hate the character. Her whole shtick is that she does a lot of reliable chip damage for almost free from neutral, and she's basically built to play bait and punish. If you whiff a smash or a long aerial against her she puts you into witch time, and smashes the everloving shit out of you. The combination of these two things (forcing you to be aggressive + being great at punishing failed attacks) causes an unbelievable amount of salt.
 
Bayo was considered unfun to watch

Smash Bros is a unfun game to watch, lol.

The game is broken beyond repair, but they're blaming some based trolls in the event for its lack of fun. Nanco (the developer of smash, if anyone doesn't know) is notorious for creating the "on-disc DLC" approach. Of course, they would sell a broken, over-powered character for some bucks, that's all they have been doing for years. Nintendo doesn't care, just like they release horrible pokémon games that run at 14 frames per second because kids are retar.ds who will buy any shit with a fucking pikachu on the boxart, smash players are no different.

The game sucks, it's broken and badly programmed, but these suckers still think it can be considered some e-sport game. It isn't.

I have a lot of respect by these two trolls though, well played. Smash deserves ridicule and nothing else.

Cloud was considered slightly better than Bayo

Two DLC characters, what a fucking coincidence!
 
Two DLC characters, what a fucking coincidence!
On one hand, sure. On the other hand, Corrin and Ryu are slightly above average, Roy is garbo, Lucas means paying money for an unarguably worse version Ness, and Mewtwo was high but never a tournament stomper.

People actually paid money for Lucas though, that's the real tragedy here.
 
Smash Bros is a unfun game to watch, lol.

The game is broken beyond repair, but they're blaming some based trolls in the event for its lack of fun. Nanco (the developer of smash, if anyone doesn't know) is notorious for creating the "on-disc DLC" approach. Of course, they would sell a broken, over-powered character for some bucks, that's all they have been doing for years. Nintendo doesn't care, just like they release horrible pokémon games that run at 14 frames per second because kids are retar.ds who will buy any shit with a fucking pikachu on the boxart, smash players are no different.

The game sucks, it's broken and badly programmed, but these suckers still think it can be considered some e-sport game. It isn't.

I have a lot of respect by these two trolls though, well played. Smash deserves ridicule and nothing else.



Two DLC characters, what a fucking coincidence!
How many times have you gotten the "mad at the internet" rating from this thread now?
If you get this angry over a party game, I think you should probably leave this thread. Just saying.
 
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