Stargirl - So Harlequin finished but I still had my subscription...

[Polyboros2]

It going to CW may as well fucking ruin it. From what I’ve heard Supergirl didn’t really start going to shit until it was moved to the CW.

It may well have gotten worse, but Supergirl was garbage on CBS. If anything kills the show on CW, it'll be the 20ish episode seasons. Flash and Arrow would of been greatly improved by having shorter season and less filler.

I originally was interested because I thought Joel McHale was a regular.....boy was I wrong

I liked Joel JcHale in Community, but he does not work as a super hero. Maybe it was cause it was such a bit part they didn't try to make him fit, but he looked awful.

So far I'm 2 episodes in and enjoying it. It's not great, but it's perfectly passable for me to throw on the background while doing something. I need to see more but it's at least as good as Flash at it's best probably(I'm an exceptional for my forgiveness of Flash though)

 

[Overly Serious]

So far I'm 2 episodes in and enjoying it. It's not great, but it's perfectly passable for me to throw on the background while doing something. I need to see more but it's at least as good as Flash at it's best probably(I'm an exceptional for my forgiveness of Flash though)

We have a two-parter still to go for the season finale, first part of which airs tomorrow. I know what you mean about Flash - first Season of Flash was good and after that it was a real mix of good and bad. Stargirl is very consistent though - it maintains an even tone, isn't subject to the problems of Flash, Arrow, etc. where they seem never to know how many episodes they'll have and have to keep doing filler episodes. The difference that makes to pacing is dramatic. Stargirl is also a lot less steeped in self-awareness and genre-nodding. I really like that about it - I'm so ready for shows to actually start not being ironically self-aware again.

 

[Polyboros2]

We have a two-parter still to go for the season finale, first part of which airs tomorrow. I know what you mean about Flash - first Season of Flash was good and after that it was a real mix of good and bad. Stargirl is very consistent though - it maintains an even tone, isn't subject to the problems of Flash, Arrow, etc. where they seem never to know how many episodes they'll have and have to keep doing filler episodes. The difference that makes to pacing is dramatic. Stargirl is also a lot less steeped in self-awareness and genre-nodding. I really like that about it - I'm so ready for shows to actually start not being ironically self-aware again.

Honestly I think Flash got into a good groove after the first season. What I like about the Flash, what few comic book shows get, is that it feels like a comic book. The Netflix Defender shows were varying levels of good (mostly), but they were never super hero shows. They were dramas of people with super powers(and this got worse as they went on). Flash you have an episode where a shark man fights a psychic gorilla. The super scientist is talking to alternate reality versions of himself, including one who ate his friend in his universe. Like they do stupid crazy things and really don't limit themselves by being in live fiction.

 

[Overly Serious]

Honestly I think Flash got into a good groove after the first season. What I like about the Flash, what few comic book shows get, is that it feels like a comic book. The Netflix Defender shows were varying levels of good (mostly), but they were never super hero shows. They were dramas of people with super powers(and this got worse as they went on). Flash you have an episode where a shark man fights a psychic gorilla. The super scientist is talking to alternate reality versions of himself, including one who ate his friend in his universe. Like they do stupid crazy things and really don't limit themselves by being in live fiction.

Then I can see why you're enjoying Stargirl. It is unapologetic about being a comic book show and I really enjoy that aspect of it.

 

[Overly Serious]

So finale of S1 aired tonight. This and the last episode were fantastic and I care about these characters so much by this point that I genuinely feel anxiety when they're in danger. I seem to be the only one here watching this show but it's seriously the best comic book show out, now. For me, it's eclipsed Arrow and Flash at their height.

A significant part of that is watching the DC Universe version which unlike the CW doesn't have ads crammed into it yanking you out every seven minutes and even better, doesn't have the stupid breaks written into the script for where the ads are supposed to go and the dumb repetition of what's going on every ten minutes to deal with people who channel hopped in the ads or forgot during them. The episode actually flows smoothly like a movie.

So I might write up a proper review / my thoughts with spoilers later on. There was some absolutely great stuff in this and (very, very mild spoilers) we finally get to see Grundy. Without doubt the best non-cartoon version of him we've ever had.

The cast, both heroes and villains, are faultless. Not a word I use often. You can tell good writing when a show has a little kid character and he's NOT annoying. And I have to give special shoutout to Brec Bassinger who's great in both the action scenes and the emotional character moments. I said it before but I LOVE how they do her fighting style. She's a gymnast so they actually work with that and they really show how effective an animated staff can be - the way she'll anchor it in space and use it for leverage or have it loop around behind someone while their focused on her in front. She and her staff fight like a team and it's great to see. I wish I could think of a better analogy than a flying sentient stripper pole but honestly, that's how she fights.

Anyway, it maintains its wholesomeness of character though it's starting to get a bit more bloody and violent as it goes on. There's a few particularly nasty incidents in the finale which I am certain would not have been permitted on CW. "Power drill" is a word that will be involved when I do my spoiler review.

Anyway, this has overtaken Doom Patrol as my favourite comic show now. Whilst Doom Patrol is more "adult" and has some great characters and ideas, there's something to be said for good old fashioned, two-fisted tales of Good and Evil.

There's also a twist in the last episode that I'm certain many Kiwifarmers will get a major kick out of. I'll spoiler, spoiler, spoiler it when I write this up. But it's so on the nose in its implications I would have been laughing my arse off if I wasn't so terrified.

Love this show.

 

[BOONES]

Unironically love this show. I'm glad my pals here are enjoying it too.

 

[Overly Serious]

Unironically love this show. I'm glad my pals here are enjoying it too.

I'm so glad someone else here is enjoying this as well. I don't know if you've seen the finale or not yet? The greatest strength of this show is also its only weakness - which is that it is unashamedly comic book. But to me that's far, far more of a good thing than it is bad. Frankly, give me grandiose villainous schemes, I'm fine with it.

Yes, this show completely won me over. There's blood and violence and darkness. But not the cynical deconstructionism of most superhero media these days. I love it for that.

 

[Overly Serious]

So Season 2 started a few weeks ago and we've just had the fourth episode. Going to reiterate, that this has some genuinely good twists, not crappy usual "oh, so and so is a villain after all" twists. So if you've any interest in this series at all, watch S1 spoiler free and then come back.

Okay, so always a worry how S2 will be. Especially with the show being bought by CW and merged into their CW-verse. I dreaded and continue to dread any kind of cross-over with the other shows. Stargirl has its own aesthetic. And indeed, it's already suffered from such a cross-over because they inserted their new "Green Lantern" character into this show. Who, incidentally, is obnoxious as fuck and also benefits from the usual privilege of being treated as oh so stunning and brave despite acting like a complete ass to the main character. In fact, given how un-woke much of Stargirl was in S1, I can't help wonder if this wasn't Geoff Johns sneaking a meta-take on such stuff under the radar. Anyway, two whole episodes we lose momentum from the real story shoe-horning her in but she finally goes. I was afraid she was going to be a regular and after that we're back to the tightly written plotting that S1 had so much of.

Ysa Penarejo as Green Lantern - she's just better than you.

There's not much to talk about in plot by episode 4. It's there, it just doesn't sound super-remarkable when you put it on paper because a lot of this is about setting up the characters and the events. We get Shade as a new villain. Eclipso (v. nasty character). That we get these two is not really a spoiler as both were set up at the end of S1. We've had actual character development in Hourman and others. I don't know yet that I feel quite as strongly about this show as I did in S1. The messing around with Green Lantern started things off by reaffirming my fears about the show being tainted by cross-overs. Still, it's picking up.

Jonathan Crake as "The Shade". He's called that, 'cause he throws it.

And of course survivors from the old season are still around.

Stargirl tv show - not afraid to have boob armour!

Anyway, I figured four episodes in to the new seasons, might as well give this a wee bump and add my thoughts. If you liked S1 then you'll enjoy S2. It hasn't dropped the ball yet (touch wood) and picked up after the first two episodes. Man, I really hated Green Lantern cross-over stuff.

 

[Devilish Jack o Lantern]

Literally I watch this on the CW app just because i want it to do good . that's how much I love this show . I always urge people to watch it . first thing I show them is the OG JSA. literally I don't think this show would be half as good without Goeff Johns at the helm of the project. i guess being head of DC media has it's perks

 

[Polyboros2]

I completely missed that this has started up again, not to keen to hear my exact concerns about it moving to the CW have arisen. I'm guessing they are doing too many episodes as well(20+ season rather than season 1's 10[?])

 

[Devilish Jack o Lantern]

I completely missed that this has started up again, not to keen to hear my exact concerns about it moving to the CW have arisen. I'm guessing they are doing too many episodes as well(20+ season rather than season 1's 10[?])

actually the only thing that has changed is that the budget has been slashed / it's still only 12 episodes a season . still same crew and cast

 

[Morethanabitfoolish]

I'm mostly enjoying it so far, my sole concern is that it feels like we are getting a lot of episodic content that's not actually fleshing much out. On the one hand I don't really want a load of cast additions. As is it's not a small group and it does feel like quite a few things are being set to simmer which they may not have time for with what's left. On the other hand if these are appearances of other heroes is something that's only going to pay off in the finale say I do not know if they'll be worth the time spent on them.

Very brief episode remarks, all made with the assumption people have seen season 1

Spoiler: 1-4

1 - I probably liked the most. They put a lot of groundwork in for various things the teen cast have upcoming (Courtney's fixation with being a hero to the point that it's affected her regular life, Beth's parents having problems and her fixation with Chuck/Dr. Midnite following the damage to his glasses, Rick having issues in school still and trying to follow up on Grundy who's hiding in the woods near the town and Yolanda is pretty damn traumatised from last season. A lot of seeds were planted and, unlike the CW shows that feature older cast acting like dumb teenagers, I am fine with the many mistakes being made by them. These are immature people, the obvious bad choices they are making in terms of their problems fit because that is what happens.

2 - Overly Serious covered a lot what was needed to be said here, the episode is dedicated largely to Gren Lantern's daughter and her interactions. I did not dislike the character but as mentioned, her here for a minute and gone again feels like it did not really do much for the story, though it may play a part down the line since it included Pat reminding Courtney of her willingness to give others a chance despite her suspicions.
What I did enjoy in this episode is the ongoing downward spiral Cindy has set herself on by buddying with Eclipso. The stuff with her and her stepmother was pretty good and I'd have liked to see more of it. It would be hard to ask for any sort of emotional bond there, given Bobbie was 100% out of that door but the eventual outcome was still suitable and should have been a warning sign for Cindy. But again, see remarks about teens.

3- probably my least favourite so far despite having some of the best Shade stuff. I don't dislike the Thunderbolt but it was always going to be a little jarring and the way of removing it from play felt forced but necessary. In addition another case of seemingly setting up a hero for down the line and devoting time to that that could be spent elsewhere.

For what little I saw of him I liked the original Johnny Thunder performance, not so sure about the actual successor in comparison to his comic origin but too little to judge.

4 - I do like seeing Sportsmaster and Tigress again, the episode still felt a little light on content but it's hard to criticise it for that alone. I'm simply concerned there's going to be plot dumps in the future.

Current predictions.

Spoiler: Upcoming

Some of this will depend on what reasoning they go with for the Shade's disposal of Midnite. This incarnation of the Shade does not feel the right flavour to drop someone into a shadowy dimension for years without a good reason so there's probably going to be more too that. I'm personally leaning towards Eclipso having messed with Midnite and that was the only method the Shade had of taking him out of things.

I'm predicting Cindy's Injustice Society goes ahead, I'm currently veering towards her taking out that Shade as part of that likely because he's not willing to murder her. I suspect it'll fall apart around her since Artemis at least I can see turning on her and Mike if recruited is either going to need to be whammied somehow or planning to turn on her.

A part of me is concerned they're going to have the assorted heroic spares they're piling up, possibly along with Grundy, be the cavalry in the finale. It may not be awful but with a 12 episode run I don't know if I want time spent on such things when there's stuff for the main four cast members to be dealing with.

I also think the original Starman might turn out to be a villain of some flavour, though that might not be relevant this season.

 

[Overly Serious]

So S2 of this show just wrapped up and whilst it wasn't quite as perfectly composed as S1 it was still very good. I'm going to leave this spoiler free - I really think this show is some of the best of its genre, especially if you have older kids and want to watch something with them. It's mature without confusing that with overly sexual. And importantly, it has a clear and solid morality. It's also a lot of Old School comic book fun with real comic book villains. Eclipso has his authentic comic book look like a washed up, roided-up jester for example. Not for this show the human with magic drugs Solomon Grundy of the Flash show. No, this is proper 14' tall albino Frankenstain Grundy.

Anyway, the actor playing the child form of Eclipso is really, really good. It would be easy to just go full "Evil Child" stereotype which he is... but he really gets some menace in. Kudos to both the child actor and the director for that.

We get to see more of some other characters this time around, such as Artemis Crock. We get Thunderbolt who was teased in the end of S1 and they balance the considerable power of that character with some good limitations and personality quirks. Going to be really interesting to see more of that character in S3.

Eclipso is a very effective villain with some genuinely creepy moments. As with S1 of Stargirl, the show doesn't twist itself into a pretzel trying to be "original" or "sudden twist". It just does traditional storytelling very, very well. And I love it for that.

I also love that characters are allowed to develop. This show is not "and then everything back to the Status Quo" which plagues modern comics and their adaptations. That's a big plus. Yollanda, Mike (Courney's brother) and Cindy all benefit in particular.

Shade treads nimbly between helpful and a bit of a shit without seeming inconsistent, which is nice and a credit to the actor. Promises to become a favourite character though it will be hard to top Sportsmaster who is bonkers insane yet strangely relatable.

We've also seen the teasing of S3 villains which promises to be very interesting. Okay, one spoiler - though not really. S3 villain looks to be Director Bones. We get a brief glimpse of him at the Season end.

All in all, good use of my limited TV watching time. It's actually edged out Doom Patrol (just) as my favourite show. Though Star Girl is a lot more young-audience targeted than Doom Patrol I still enjoy it.

 

[jorgoth]

So I'm just getting into Stargirl now, and this might just be autism speaking, but I think there's a clear cultural/political subtext to this show, basically that of America vs. the EU. Obviously the JSA would represent the USA, and the ISA would represent the EU.

That the JSA represents the US is obvious and is really put in-your-face by how Pat's robot armor is made out of Detroit automotive parts. Have American automakers even sourced auto parts from Detroit since the 60's?

The ISA represents the EU for two reasons:

1. All the members aside from the Asian woman are obvious European archetypes, and unlike with the whte JSA characters, you can easily tell from their features which part of Europe they're from. Brainwave is Irish, Icicle is Nordic, Wizard is Eastern European/Jewish like Harry' Houdini, etc.
2. The New American Dream, with its obsession with a post-racial world, mirrors the EU's "melting pot" ideology.

 

[Overly Serious]

So I'm just getting into Stargirl now, and this might just be autism speaking, but I think there's a clear cultural/political subtext to this show, basically that of America vs. the EU. Obviously the JSA would represent the USA, and the ISA would represent the EU.

That the JSA represents the US is obvious and is really put in-your-face by how Pat's robot armor is made out of Detroit automotive parts. Have American automakers even sourced auto parts from Detroit since the 60's?

The ISA represents the EU for two reasons:

1. All the members aside from the Asian woman are obvious European archetypes, and unlike with the whte JSA characters, you can easily tell from their features which part of Europe they're from. Brainwave is Irish, Icicle is Nordic, Wizard is Eastern European/Jewish like Harry' Houdini, etc.
2. The New American Dream, with its obsession with a post-racial world, mirrors the EU's "melting pot" ideology.

That's a really interesting take that hadn't occurred to me. Sportsmaster doesn't fit the European stereotype and, imo, the Gambler is much closer to an American stereotype. That said, Sportsmaster isn't really a believer in the plan and the Gambler looks to be very much just in it for the money. So that doesn't wholly detract from your take.

You've obviously completed S1 as you know what their ultimate plan is. I found the whole series pretty damn positive, honestly. Good, moral characters. Well drawn characters. Hope you enjoy S2 as well. It's different from S1 but still very enjoyable. I like how it is unashamed of its comic book roots unlike most of the Arrow-verse stuff. The latter can actually be good but it obviously tries to add realism to it in a way that Star Girl doesn't.

What European Stereotype do you think Grundy represents.

 

[Polyboros2]

unlike most of the Arrow-verse stuff.

The one thing I give Flash credit for(beside that I think Grant Gustin does a good job, especially compared to the turbohomo from the movies) is that it's the most comic book show ever. With all the dumb shit that comes with it. I think that if the crew didn't have to make so many damn episodes a year it'd be actually good, rather than watchable.

 

[Morethanabitfoolish]

Finally got around to finishing this season. Decent one, I'd compare it as superior to any of the CW ones, though being only a bit over a dozen episodes that helps. I would have liked one more or some slightly tighter story telling on a lot of points. A lot of things needed more fleshing out to improve the whole but it was still good.

Anyway, the actor playing the child form of Eclipso is really, really good. It would be easy to just go full "Evil Child" stereotype which he is... but he really gets some menace in. Kudos to both the child actor and the director for that.

We get to see more of some other characters this time around, such as Artemis Crock. We get Thunderbolt who was teased in the end of S1 and they balance the considerable power of that character with some good limitations and personality quirks. Going to be really interesting to see more of that character in S3.

I was very hesitant when the child was just being the littlest racist for his scenes with Beth but overall pretty good for a child actor. I honestly think they picked that child just for his creepy smiles alone. Young Cindy was also quite well done, I do wonder if being surrounded by other youngish actors helps them out compared to productions where they are the lone child involved.

The Crocks finale I'm torn on, their appearance for Eclipso's ending was unnecessary and the fact that the exploding puck was not used on him is a wasted chance. Their appearance as the new neighbours was great though, especially since I was convinced it would be the Shade until the door opened.

Eclipso is a very effective villain with some genuinely creepy moments. As with S1 of Stargirl, the show doesn't twist itself into a pretzel trying to be "original" or "sudden twist". It just does traditional storytelling very, very well. And I love it for that.

I also love that characters are allowed to develop. This show is not "and then everything back to the Status Quo" which plagues modern comics and their adaptations. That's a big plus. Yollanda, Mike (Courney's brother) and Cindy all benefit in particular.

Given Eclipso reminds me of Ivan Ooze from the Power Rangers movie I'm impressed they played him fairly straight. Having the child be his stand in most of the time worked since it stopped the costumed form being on screen too much. I do think they could have gotten away with a little more with him, ramped up the horror elements of some of his stuff, but this is aimed at a younger audience.

I give them some genuine credit for the stuff with Yollanda. They touched on some pretty serious stuff with her and despite that at no point did her reactions come across as the unlikable whining I hear from 90% of the CW cast to far lesser trauma.

Shade treads nimbly between helpful and a bit of a shit without seeming inconsistent, which is nice and a credit to the actor. Promises to become a favourite character though it will be hard to top Sportsmaster who is bonkers insane yet strangely relatable.

Shade is one of the big ones I think needed more to round him out. He was good and this is a fairly well done adaptation of him especially given the role they needed him to play in the plot but there's a lot of holes with his stuff and a lot of moments where within the existing runtime scenes could have been strengthened.

We've also seen the teasing of S3 villains which promises to be very interesting. Okay, one spoiler - though not really. S3 villain looks to be Director Bones. We get a brief glimpse of him at the Season end.

The glimpse also confirmed that the voice actor is Keith David. Who I've got to say may well be a perfect fit for the role.
I don't think he'll be the villain exactly though I am curious who will be if it isn't him.

Spoiler

OG Starman's little "superheroes don't need school" combined with the presence of Director Bones makes me think we're going to have responsibility be a theme of the next series. The casting of Starman might make a bit more sense from that perspective, if he's going to be pushing Courtney to basically focus on super heroing at the expense of her schoolwork. I think that runs the risk of retreading stuff from this season but we'll see.

I also imagine the Crock's freedom is more than just a breakout if they've bought a house, so that might tie back to Bones and it might be there's something in the vein of Suicide Squad he;s involved with that gives villains chance to rehabilitate via work for the government. ALl just speculation for now.

The one thing I give Flash credit for(beside that I think Grant Gustin does a good job, especially compared to the turbohomo from the movies) is that it's the most comic book show ever.

Of the various CW ones it does feel the most like a comic book. I'd say Doom Patrol feels more like the comic book it is based off but that's not quite the same.

 

[Overly Serious]

@Morethanabitfoolish Can't quote you but agree with pretty much everything you say. But apparently SG had a big cut in its budget this season and also Covid restrictions. That might be the reason for the "summer school" plot, in fact. They did pretty well all things considered. Honestly, you may be right about the Crocks but I love that family so much it makes me happy just to know they'll be a big part of S3.

Also, Yollanda - yes, vivid contrast from most of the CW shows where you get weeks of angst about someone wondering whether to tell their partner about their son or not, then you have Yollanda go through that and it's played subtly, convincingly and the actress carried it great.

 

[Morethanabitfoolish]

@Morethanabitfoolish Can't quote you but agree with pretty much everything you say. But apparently SG had a big cut in its budget this season and also Covid restrictions. That might be the reason for the "summer school" plot, in fact. They did pretty well all things considered. Honestly, you may be right about the Crocks but I love that family so much it makes me happy just to know they'll be a big part of S3.

Also, Yollanda - yes, vivid contrast from most of the CW shows where you get weeks of angst about someone wondering whether to tell their partner about their son or not, then you have Yollanda go through that and it's played subtly, convincingly and the actress carried it great.

From what I can tell the budget drop was not a major one, more what you'd expect for a second season (and of course some of it is justified for a lot of superhero ones since your main cast's costume were handled in the first seasons). The Covid restrictions however I could see as being a major factor, especially for more bit roles like the Shade, preventing additional fleshing out for various parts I wanted to see. If you're getting all your scenes shot over a few days based off what's in the script bringing people in to do extra scenes you realise could help is not so easy, same for cutting scenes when you have a runtime to hit.

And agree on the Crocks. All three of those actors have some solid presence in and out of costume and the episode focusing on them was a solid example of using their existing cast and giving the highlight on different characters to let them shine.

I do think part of what makes Yollanda and indeed the show as a whole work is it is a younger cast so you allow them more leeway than the adult children that populate the average CW one. But then I remember how they handled her plotline this season and go "no, actually it is better as well!"

I know you are aware of the old Infinity Inc. stuff better than I am and various chunks of the older JSA stuff I'm not, Director Bones I suspect will be them using even more of that next season so that'll be interesting to see.

 

[6thRanger]

Overall I just found Stargirl very pleasant and positive. At no point did I feel like I was being preached to, emotionally manipulated or my intelligence disrespected. Everything was solid and wholesome, which is shocking in 2021.