Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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So there's an interview out about Discovery and how they're going to handle trek canon. Surprising no one at all, they're going to ignore it because they're in the future now. Fuck yo temporal prime directive nigga.

The canon is still where we come from. It is our foundation; it is our root. We still are who we are. Alex Kurtzman, our showrunner along with Michelle Paradise, he said earlier we are not going to take away anything that has been established. Everything is what it is, except now we basically carry the Star Trek that we all know into a future that we don’t know.
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trekmovie.com

‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Cast Talks About Going Beyond ‘Voyager’ And Canon In Season Three

Rebecca Romijn and Ethan Peck also preview upcoming 'Short Treks' set on the USS Enterprise.
trekmovie.com trekmovie.com
 
gobbogobb said:
Kate Mulgrew is a good actress but a shitty person.

Janeway was a Trainwreck that I'm still convinced was designed to fail. My autistic theory is they really wanted Russ for Captain, but not as Tuvok (cuz vulcan captains are boring), but someone with a corner office wanted that sweet 90s feminism cred.
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If Janeway was allowed to be a meaner bitch who made mistakes more often she'd have been awesome. People love it when women are absolute tyrants. They should have made her evil-but-efficient, someone the crew is always afraid to talk to but tries to make the descisions neccesary to get what she wants (and thus help them get home). Instead she was like some kind of weird and disturbing BDSM Mother figure than made the show embarassing to watch.

In some way this actually makes me think of your Tuvok theory, that maybe this Captain was supposed to be a vulcan and too logical and descison-oriented to actually see the bigger picture and take care of their crew. The USS Intrepid in TOS was an all-Vulcan crew killed by the space ameboa thing when they refused to believe their life was being drained by it. Voyager is Intrepid Class, and there were quite a few Vulcan episodes.
 
Kurtzman is such a big brain that he has not yet realised that he has now 2 of his shows set in the future. It's going to be fun keeping track of all of their shitty adventures.
 
Not to mention it's already been established in Voyager and Enterprise that time travel is very common in the future and the federation is very intent on not having the timeline fucked with in any way.

Season 3 of Discovery should start with a timeship showing up and being like "lol fuck no go home" and zipping them back to wherever the hell they started.
 
I know it's part of a bigger franchise obviously, but it's still weird in the year 2019 to see something that references a flop movie from 2002, as is the case of the reference in the Picard trailer to Data's sacrifice.
 
I gotta be real, I don't think Voyager's problem was that it abandoned the original premise, because whenever Maquis conflict came up it was just as awful as everything else.

Even of it were good, DS9's portrayal of the group was basically perfect and nothing was ever going to live up.
 
Julia Fortune said:
I don't think so, most Voyager episodes that I can actually remember are just rewrites of TNG episodes, but without any understanding of what makes them interesting. Janeway is just Lady Picard, with hardly any defining characteristics of her own.

I actually have no knowledge of the staff behind Voyager, but it's either the same writers from TNG running out of steam, the good writers being funneled into DS9 while the fillerfags worked on Voyager (might explain why Voyager became more watchable in its last couple seasons), or if it was an entirely new staff that just didn't have the same level of talent (not very likely)
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Jeri Taylor was one of the show producers at the time and she LOVED Janeway. She wrote an entire novel detailing Janeway's backstory
memory-alpha.fandom.com

Mosaic

Revealed at last, the untold story of Kathryn Janeway! Mosaic is a Pocket VOY novel – the first unnumbered novel – written by Jeri Taylor. Published by Pocket Books, it was first released in hardback in October 1996. The novel depicts the life of Captain Kathryn Janeway from early childhood...
memory-alpha.fandom.com memory-alpha.fandom.com
before she did a novel going over the rest of the crew.
memory-alpha.fandom.com

Pathways

The untold story of Captain Janeway's crew! Pathways is a Pocket VOY novel written by Jeri Taylor. Published by Pocket Books, it was first released in hardback in August 1998.
memory-alpha.fandom.com memory-alpha.fandom.com

And whenever you watch any episode helmed by Jeri Taylor her sheer love of Janeway shines through.

Star Trek (Voy): Coda

Star Trek Reviews
sfdebris.com

In other words, the same problem any time someone writes a woman: the writer avoids challenging them in any serious way. Well you can't get the glory of Frodo with the passivity of Bella. And if they wanted Janeway and Burnham to be recognized as equal as Kirk, Picard, or Sisko, then they need to take the hits, the challenges, and the failures those men did. Janeway was best in the later seasons because they finally let her suffer.
 
That's not true at all. Her fiance dumped her remember. And she had to delete her holodeck boyfriend. (Note that she got over both of those in literal seconds)

those are literally the only two times I can think of shitty things happening to Janeway that she didn't immediately fix because she was the magic space science wizard general superheroine.
 
gobbogobb said:
That's not true at all. Her fiance dumped her remember. And she had to delete her holodeck boyfriend. (Note that she got over both of those in literal seconds)

those are literally the only two times I can think of shitty things happening to Janeway that she didn't immediately fix because she was the magic space science wizard general superheroine.
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Well in the final episode she lost her pet Seven of Nine. (Year of Hell at least took most everything else from her.)
 
gobbogobb said:
Yet, she magic space wizard fixed both of those problems.
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True, but that was also when she was at her best.

(remember we are grading a severe curve of early season Janeway)
 
I honestly wouldn't have minded a plot where Seven of Nine somehow took over the Borg. It would have fit her perpetually torn character to assume some kind of role that is at its core conflicted between human and machine. Plus, maybe she wouldn't be 100% benevolent as ruler of the Borg. Maybe could have started making her own descisions and destroying civilizations she thought of as unfit while saving others. Have her show a twisted mess of what the Federation tried to teach her. They also could have turned her into a mechanical abomination and silenced all of the people who kept moaning about how she was only on the show for sex appeal. She doesn't neccesarily have to be a villain under this plot either, just a misguided ruler.
 
Ihavetinyweewee said:
I just never understood why the crew didn't mutiny her. Maroon her ass and call it a day....
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That was the best part of the Elite Force expansion - you could go to the ready room and shoot Janeway in the face with the hand-held photon torpedo launcher.

Neelix too.
 
gobbogobb said:
Oddly tuvix was (imo) a really underrated episode, and the writer understood what kind of situations could arise where the prime directive is basically toilet paper no matter how you come down on the issue.
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Tbqh disagree. The core premise of the episode was great, but the actual character writing was dogshit.
 
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