Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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YankeeTrader said:
I dunno, they tried in Into Darkness with half naked Carol Marcus.
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For five seconds, in underwear. Compared to four seasons of skin tight catsuit. Well actually eight seasons, counting Enterprise. To me, far worse.

YankeeTrader said:
Regarding the finale, I believe Berman and Braga had a deal that let them do 'these are the voyages', and as a FU, Cota did Terra Prime which works perfectly as a season or a series finale. Tack on the 'space the final frontier' bit at the very end and rack it, it's done.
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Actually, "These Are The Voyages" was apparently planned for the third season in case it was cancelled, but moved to the forth when it was actually cancelled. To me it comes off as trying to capture the whole glory of TNG, which while still a popular show, is really silly given that the show was 11 years off the air by the time the episode aired. And probably as a fuck you to Manny Coto, trying to steal the spotlight with All Good Things 2.0. Ironically that kind of cameo fan service stuff is mainstream nowadays, though it's pretty flat with the aged actors and thin plot.

Braga has been far more open in recent years in acknowledging his flaws, and he's even said the fourth season should have been the first season. Berman on the other hand, is such an asshole even Braga hates him now.
 
projecteddrama said:
For five seconds, in underwear. Compared to four seasons of skin tight catsuit. Well actually eight seasons, counting Enterprise. To me, far worse.
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I object more to the timing the the act. Seemed to just break the pace visually, and that movie didn't need anything else screwing with it. I won't even get into how much I hate that movie. Rewatched the third yesterday though.... I hate to admit it, I'm slowly warming to it.

projecteddrama said:
Actually, "These Are The Voyages" was apparently planned for the third season in case it was cancelled, but moved to the forth when it was actually cancelled. To me it comes off as trying to capture the whole glory of TNG, which while still a popular show, is really silly given that the show was 11 years off the air by the time the episode aired.
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I didn't know that. Wish they had done it like that. The change of context makes all the difference in the world. It just seems petty to rob the cast of a proper sendoff.
 
YankeeTrader said:
I object more to the timing the the act. Seemed to just break the pace visually, and that movie didn't need anything else screwing with it. I won't even get into how much I hate that movie. Rewatched the third yesterday though.... I hate to admit it, I'm slowly warming to it.
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Well I don't like any AbramsTrek, but I don't find the scene objectionable. Stupid, yeah, but most of the film is stupid, so eh.

Skin tight catsuit as uniform is theoretically more cringy to me, though I forget about it after five minutes of watching Enterprise or Voyager.

YankeeTrader said:
I didn't know that. Wish they had done it like that. The change of context makes all the difference in the world. It just seems petty to rob the cast of a proper sendoff.
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Bakula was angry about it apparently. Frakes and Sirtis have since called it crap. It was basically B and B saying to the cast "fuck off, you're not good enough".

Though its probably better than the original series finale idea, which was a crazy Voyager episode, featuring the EMH treating a crazy Scott Bakula.
 
projecteddrama said:
Tbf, in the Temporal Cold War's case, it was executive meddling. They demanded a "futuristic" edge and so Brannon Braga in his infinite wisdom decided to take an idea from a TV pitch in the mid 90s that had nothing to do with Star Trek and insert it into Enterprise. Even he has since said it was a terrible idea. That doesn't excuse the shoddy writing, but just some clarity.
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The good news is that the Department of Temporal Investigations novel series tries so hard to make some sense of this little plot arc. Amusingly, even they find it confusing as hell, though they do try to flesh out the Suliban and provide some actual context to make that plot arc have some relevance to the series canon.

The DTI books take those amusing X-files shoutouts from the DS9 "Trials and Tribbleations" episode and expanded the whole thing into a side series based on all sorts of time travel and temporal incidents based on ST stuff.
 
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Cynical said:
The good news is that the Department of Temporal Investigations novel series tries so hard to make some sense of this little plot arc. Amusingly, even they find it confusing as hell, though they do try to flesh out the Suliban and provide some actual context to make that plot arc have some relevance to the series canon.
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Interesting, I've actually never read a Star Trek novel, I assumed they were all crap. I should probably try some out.

On a funny aside, the Enterprise writing staff did intend to give an explanation on why the Suliban do not appear or are ever named in any of the other series, I guess as a way to make it fit the "canon". They never seemed to care about explaining all kinds of other things, like the Denobulans. I'm one of those Star Trek fans that doesn't even care about this canon stuff, but I find it amusing they felt the need to say this. Why nothing came of it, I imagine because the Suliban were just thrown away after season two.

The Temporal Cold War was really just another sign of Star Trek's addiction to time travel. Give it a rest already...
 
projecteddrama said:
Well I don't like any AbramsTrek, but I don't find the scene objectionable. Stupid, yeah, but most of the film is stupid, so eh.

Skin tight catsuit as uniform is theoretically more cringy to me, though I forget about it after five minutes of watching Enterprise or Voyager.



Bakula was angry about it apparently. Frakes and Sirtis have since called it crap. It was basically B and B saying to the cast "fuck off, you're not good enough".

Though its probably better than the original series finale idea, which was a crazy Voyager episode, featuring the EMH treating a crazy Scott Bakula.
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Yeah, I never understood why in story T'Pol even after joining Starfleet never wore a proper uniform. Except in that one alternate timeline ep, which by the way, I don't know if you caught it, but the human survivors settled on the fifth planet of the Ceti Alpha system. When I caught that I just smiled. That was a nice touch.

I've heard about the crazy original finale.. I'm torn. On one hand it sound terrible, and on the other, I love the EMH character.


projecteddrama said:
Interesting, I've actually never read a Star Trek novel, I assumed they were all crap. I should probably try some out.

On a funny aside, the Enterprise writing staff did intend to give an explanation on why the Suliban do not appear or are ever named in any of the other series, I guess as a way to make it fit the "canon". They never seemed to care about explaining all kinds of other things, like the Denobulans. I'm one of those Star Trek fans that doesn't even care about this canon stuff, but I find it amusing they felt the need to say this. Why nothing came of it, I imagine because the Suliban were just thrown away after season two.
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If you want to go for general Trek, look for novels by Peter David. He's a great writer and a lot of his books I've read have great pacing. It's like reading an episode but with much better exposition.
 
YankeeTrader said:
Yeah, I never understood why in story T'Pol even after joining Starfleet never wore a proper uniform.
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Seems every Trek after TOS has this. Troi of course did this until Ronny Cox told her to stop hanging her boobs out on the bridge of a ship. Was there ever an explanation given for why she didn't wear a uniform?

YankeeTrader said:
Except in that one alternate timeline ep, which by the way, I don't know if you caught it, but the human survivors settled on the fifth planet of the Ceti Alpha system. When I caught that I just smiled. That was a nice touch.
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Twilight and I did catch that, and Mutara sector as well :P It's actually a good episode, and for whatever reason T'Pol looks sexier in uniform and with long hair.

Also yeah I do like the EMH far more than Riker or Troi, so I actually agree I'd prob have rather seen that.

If you want to go for general Trek, look for novels by Peter David. He's a great writer and a lot of his books I've read have great pacing. It's like reading an episode but with much better exposition.
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I'll check them out. I've heard there's a fair deal of good TOS novels
 
projecteddrama said:
Seems every Trek after TOS has this. Troi of course did this until Ronny Cox told her to stop hanging her boobs out on the bridge of a ship. Was there ever an explanation given for why she didn't wear a uniform?
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In story, no. Production story, sex appeal.

projecteddrama said:
Twilight and I did catch that, and Mutara sector as well :P It's actually a good episode, and for whatever reason T'Pol looks sexier in uniform and with long hair.

Also yeah I do like the EMH far more than Riker or Troi, so I actually agree I'd prob have rather seen that.
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Mirror T'Pol even sexier.

projecteddrama said:
I'll check them out. I've heard there's a fair deal of good TOS novels
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All you can eat.
 
Yeah Q-Squared is about as good as you could hope for from Q vs Trelane. Some Trek books can be pretty fun. I liked the Starfleet Corps of Engineers stories. Sorta pulp space adventure with a task force of engineers.
 
XYZpdq said:
Yeah Q-Squared is about as good as you could hope for from Q vs Trelane. Some Trek books can be pretty fun. I liked the Starfleet Corps of Engineers stories. Sorta pulp space adventure with a task force of engineers.
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I picked up the Enterprise novel Kobayashi Maru a couple of weeks ago. Haven't had a chance to read it yet, but I like the idea.
 
YankeeTrader said:
Never saw the ending coming. Was a hell of a twist.
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Captures the mood of the original Mirror, Mirror episode.

YankeeTrader said:
It's never been added to the canon, but it's a wide held theory and belief and books and such has sorta ran with it.
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I figure production wise he was. A lot of TNG stuff originates as stuff that couldn't be in TOS but was planned, like the Holodecks.
 
I watched a few TNG episodes including The Pegasus again.
Does anyone care to possibly explain why the Federation would sign a treaty that specifically forbids them from developing cloaking technology? I cannot think of a single reason why they would agree to that, especially since the Romulans have been the most hostile motherfuckers in the series.
 
GeorgeDaMoose said:
I watched a few TNG episodes including The Pegasus again.
Does anyone care to possibly explain why the Federation would sign a treaty that specifically forbids them from developing cloaking technology? I cannot think of a single reason why they would agree to that, especially since the Romulans have been the most hostile motherfuckers in the series.
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Unless what the Federation gained as a concession by the Romulans made it worth while for them to sign it. Maybe they gave up that in order to establish a network of listening posts along the neutral zone. Or made the zone wider or something. I don't know what, but I'd guess they got something out of the deal. I bet there is a book or two that covers the whole "Treaty of Algeron" and what led up to it.

projecteddrama said:
Yeah for whatever reason, T'Pol was mandated to have that terrible bowl cut hair outside a few episodes.
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Rick Berman was a big Moe fan.
 
GeorgeDaMoose said:
I watched a few TNG episodes including The Pegasus again.
Does anyone care to possibly explain why the Federation would sign a treaty that specifically forbids them from developing cloaking technology? I cannot think of a single reason why they would agree to that, especially since the Romulans have been the most hostile motherfuckers in the series.
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To me the only way it makes sense (entirely based on the episode) is if the Federation only put it in there to so that it would give the impression that the Federation doesn't have anything like Section 31.

Like, we are 100% peaceful.
but we actually have what might be the most ruthless secret organizations in the galaxy
 
GeorgeDaMoose said:
I watched a few TNG episodes including The Pegasus again.
Does anyone care to possibly explain why the Federation would sign a treaty that specifically forbids them from developing cloaking technology? I cannot think of a single reason why they would agree to that, especially since the Romulans have been the most hostile motherfuckers in the series.
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Because it triggers the Federation's enemies
 
YankeeTrader said:
Unless what the Federation gained as a concession by the Romulans made it worth while for them to sign it. Maybe they gave up that in order to establish a network of listening posts along the neutral zone. Or made the zone wider or something. I don't know what, but I'd guess they got something out of the deal. I bet there is a book or two that covers the whole "Treaty of Algeron" and what led up to it.
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It's explained here:

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Treaty_of_Algeron
 
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