Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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Grand Wizard Wakka said:
Its funny, in the Star Wars thread they talk about how good Star Trek fans have it and how it hasn't been ruined like Star Wars. As a fan of both, I couldn't disagree more. Peak ignorance.
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Don't get me wrong, Disney Wars is also a big steaming pile of shit, but there's at least this sense of "Oh, the fans hated that so let's kinda ignore it and not reference it anymore, the fans liked this, let's try to do more of that." Whereas the abomination that is modern Trek is like, "What if we made the Vulcans war criminals to make a point about punching Nazis? Fans hated that? Let's do a five episode arc focusing on it."
 
Grand Wizard Wakka said:
Its funny, in the Star Wars thread they talk about how good Star Trek fans have it and how it hasn't been ruined like Star Wars. As a fan of both, I couldn't disagree more. Peak ignorance.
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As I've said before, it's a real tragedy that the modern day Trek vs. Wars fights are all about whose canon is being raped harder. Gone are the days of Trekkies making fun of space wizards and Wars fans mocking technobabble, now it's just a mutual grieving session where we mourn the deaths of our favorite series and argue about which one is going downhill faster.

In reality, the fight is pointless, much like any nerd slapfight. Both series are being managed by talentless hack frauds who hire talentless hack fraud writers to produce garbage scripts and stories, and both have been dying a slow and painful death for a decade or more. The only bright side is that there's still plenty of material to enjoy from before JJ and Disney got their tendrils into them.
 
Grand Wizard Wakka said:

Picard season 3 is supposed to change canon and the Trek universe in massive ways and affect the Kirk era...
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I was too lazy to overlay images of Kirk, Kurtzman et al to this. But its the same basic thing that's happening.
 
King Dead said:
As I've said before, it's a real tragedy that the modern day Trek vs. Wars fights are all about whose canon is being raped harder. Gone are the days of Trekkies making fun of space wizards and Wars fans mocking technobabble, now it's just a mutual grieving session where we mourn the deaths of our favorite series and argue about which one is going downhill faster.

In reality, the fight is pointless, much like any nerd slapfight. Both series are being managed by talentless hack frauds who hire talentless hack fraud writers to produce garbage scripts and stories, and both have been dying a slow and painful death for a decade or more. The only bright side is that there's still plenty of material to enjoy from before JJ and Disney got their tendrils into them.
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One struggle. No more brother wars.

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King Dead said:
As I've said before, it's a real tragedy that the modern day Trek vs. Wars fights are all about whose canon is being raped harder. Gone are the days of Trekkies making fun of space wizards and Wars fans mocking technobabble, now it's just a mutual grieving session where we mourn the deaths of our favorite series and argue about which one is going downhill faster.

In reality, the fight is pointless, much like any nerd slapfight. Both series are being managed by talentless hack frauds who hire talentless hack fraud writers to produce garbage scripts and stories, and both have been dying a slow and painful death for a decade or more. The only bright side is that there's still plenty of material to enjoy from before JJ and Disney got their tendrils into them.
Click to expand...
I dunno. I enjoyed Mando seasons 1 and 2 more than the prequels. Star Wars has ups and downs. Its had trash worse than the sequels mixed in since the originals (Holiday Special, a lot of EU, etc) and I still think the prequels are worse than the sequels (the prequels just had great EU media), and it still has SOME good stuff today. There's still potential and some joy here and there to be found in Star Wars. People still consoom Star Wars, even if some bitch about it. Nobody but me seems to watch NuTrek - and I find 0 redeeming value in any aspect of it.
 
Grand Wizard Wakka said:
I dunno. I enjoyed Mando seasons 1 and 2 more than the prequels. Star Wars has ups and downs. Its had trash worse than the sequels mixed in since the originals (Holiday Special, a lot of EU, etc) and I still think the prequels are worse than the sequels (the prequels just had great EU media), and it still has SOME good stuff today. There's still potential and some joy here and there to be found in Star Wars. People still consoom Star Wars, even if some bitch about it. Nobody but me seems to watch NuTrek - and I find 0 redeeming value in any aspect of it.
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As trash as a lot of nu wars is at least there is an attempt to expand and build on the original canon, even if the majority of it is fanwank. On the other hand nu trek has no interest in engaging with the canon at all and the writers feelings on the original shows range from disinterest to outright contempt. The funny part about this is of the two franchises trek should be the easiest to build on, it had multiple good iterations unlike star wars which has never been able to live up to the original trilogy and never will.
It must take effort to fuck it up this bad over and over again.
 
Great President of McHell said:
As trash as a lot of nu wars is at least there is an attempt to expand and build on the original canon, even if the majority of it is fanwank. On the other hand nu trek has no interest in engaging with the canon at all and the writers feelings on the original shows range from disinterest to outright contempt. The funny part about this is of the two franchises trek should be the easiest to build on, it had multiple good iterations unlike star wars which has never been able to live up to the original trilogy and never will.
It must take effort to fuck it up this bad over and over again.
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i can agree with you there, nu wars sucks really bad but they are trying to keep the old lore going, nu trek is actively trying to destroy the old lore.
Grand Wizard Wakka said:
I dunno. I enjoyed Mando seasons 1 and 2 more than the prequels. Star Wars has ups and downs. Its had trash worse than the sequels mixed in since the originals (Holiday Special, a lot of EU, etc) and I still think the prequels are worse than the sequels (the prequels just had great EU media), and it still has SOME good stuff today. There's still potential and some joy here and there to be found in Star Wars. People still consoom Star Wars, even if some bitch about it. Nobody but me seems to watch NuTrek - and I find 0 redeeming value in any aspect of it.
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i have a difficult time choosing which is worse, prequels or sequels. the sequels had much better EU and they are way more fun to complain about. complaining about nu wars is just so morbid to me.

as both a star wars fan and a star trek fan, nu trek is a million times more painful to me that star wars stuff. when i see stupid star wars stuff i jsut complain and then move on, i guess it's due to being accustomed my entire life to seeing really dumb EU stuff. but with star trek, every time i see how bad the new stuff is it hurts and i feel i die a little bit inside. i guess star trek jsut has meaning ot me as a franchise whereas star wars was always just a space action movie to me.
 
I haven’t read any trek eu since the days of Q and Trelaine fighting each other through the great barrier and Picard dealing with the Mirror Universe though I remember something about some mega supernova that destroyed most of the alpha and beta quadrants even before the events of the 2009 movie so I dunno I think it had to do with the Borg and Kirk and…Zephram Cochrane and the Starfleet logo? I feel like I’m mashing up my books here. Very not optimal.
 
Doctor Placebo said:
"What if we made the Vulcans war criminals to make a point about punching Nazis? Fans hated that? Let's do a five episode arc focusing on it."
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I get the sense that they would be better off writing screenplays for dark sci-fi like Blade Runner, because their style is not suited for Star Trek, and the actors aren't suited for hard drama.

I’m not a fan of how they inserted their own personal beliefs onto Captain Picard.

The criticism was disrespectful. You work toward a character's strengths, not write them into the ground:

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Grand Wizard Wakka said:
Its funny, in the Star Wars thread they talk about how good Star Trek fans have it. Peak ignorance.
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Great President of McHell said:
It must take effort to fuck it up this bad over and over again.
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>Eric Saward has entered the chat

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They've made so many stupid mistakes that it can be easily seen as sabotage.
 
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amateur professional lurk said:
im not sure if they will make kirk trans or not, but they def will make sulu gay even though the original series clearly shows he is attracted to women, particularly uhura. im sure they will further retcon the original cast to be more in line with current year.


sounds like the greatest book of all time to me.
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Don't worry, they'll make Uhura trans so it all works out.
 
TheSockiestSock said:
I haven’t read any trek eu since the days of Q and Trelaine fighting each other through the great barrier and Picard dealing with the Mirror Universe though I remember something about some mega supernova that destroyed most of the alpha and beta quadrants even before the events of the 2009 movie so I dunno I think it had to do with the Borg and Kirk and…Zephram Cochrane and the Starfleet logo? I feel like I’m mashing up my books here. Very not optimal.
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Q Squared , Dark Mirror , The Return , and Federation.

All good fun and some of the standouts of the novels.

Mid Eighties to Mid Nineties was a wonderful time for the books.
 
Great President of McHell said:
They would never do that because it would make gender inconsequential (as it probably would be in the 32nd century) meaning they would be unable to milk trans narratives for woke points.
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If anything, I would think it would create more opportunities to do just that, as they could create the idea that "ANYONE CAN BE TRANS~!"
 
amateur professional lurk said:
i can agree with you there, nu wars sucks really bad but they are trying to keep the old lore going, nu trek is actively trying to destroy the old lore...
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I tend to agree that Trek fans are being raped by a psychopath with a knife in a back alley while Wars is being raped by a couple of frat boys at a drunken party (at least on a bed). But let's not entirely dismiss what they did to Luke Skywalker in TFA. The hero and Savior of the galaxy is portrayed as a lazy, self-loathing, miserable hermit who almost, IN COLD BLOOD, murdered his nephew.

Nu-Trek has not yet done something like that to Kirk. Not yet.
 
Preferred Penne said:
If anything, I would think it would create more opportunities to do just that, as they could create the idea that "ANYONE CAN BE TRANS~!"
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I think it's a great opportunity to piss off Nu Trek fans.
Just tell them that in the 24th century people are enlightened and the concept of "trans" and the need to point it out simply doesn't exist anymore. Anyone feeling transgender can fully and completely change and it would be fully accepted. There would be no need to say "trans women are women", because, well, there are just men and women.
"Trans" would be fully accepted and treated as equal to the point where the concept doesn't exist anymore.
But the troon activists don't want that. They want to be special.

I couldn't bring myself to watch more than a few episodes of Discovery. It is just painfully bad. Made worse by every single character being intensely unlikeable, and the whole thing being shot with awful cinematography. And I guess the characters get worse with ongoing seasons?
Star Wars got it bad now, but the utter contempt Nu Trek writers have for what Star Trek used to be about and the people who liked it is honestly sickening.
God I hope there's gonna be another season of The Orville soon...
 
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