Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

[Aqua Panda]

I actually kinda love the Ipod style of TMP and wished we saw more of it, although they were a real bitch to wear according to everybody. Not easy to go to the bathroom either.

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Yes I see your point, its not easy to designate rank, and the auxiliary uniforms look kinda shit. But Shatner looks so good in white and blue. I do wonder what the lore for the belts are.



https://youtube.com/watch?v=yKKD26OOoT8:29
https://youtube.com/watch?v=OmR6PqV4x0c:693
I just have such an appreciation for all the fat they trimmed from the directors cut. There's no pointless reaction shots and distracting effects. The new scenes previously cut out actually add to the tension and mystery elements too. There's much more focus on the danger of this thing and how utterly screwed they are if they have to fight it.


Plus There's a lot of little things I like such the enterprise's warp nacelles in window shots. They put in a lot of effort to make it feel more tight and concise.

I'm really looking forward to the Director's Edition finally getting an HD/UHD release next year. It's so God damn superior to the theatrical cut It's not funny.

 

[Flexo]

Yeah and quite extensively at that, I've read through most of them and theres a lot of interesting stuff in there regarding production and their overall intent and direction for the show.
It's also fun to laugh at some of the hilariously stupid questions/opinions thrown his way, this one from 1997 would be right at home on 2021 twitter.
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THANK YOU! As I've gone on about more than once it bugs me this whole, "DS9 should have had more of teh gays!" it's like - Odo wasn't enough? Bitch he doesn't even have a gender so what do you call his relationships? Where does that go on your LGBT flag?

That's the biggest difference between classic and nu Trek. Classic Trek was always about expanding the possibilities - challenging your imagination. "What if we meet people that not only disagree with us, but CANNOT EVER agree with us because our existences are so different?" Nu-Trek? All about being as "safe" as possible. "Look at how awesome our minorities are! Things would be just so great if you'd shut up and listen to us already." Why bother exploring the galaxy when you already know the answer to everything?

My impression was that some writers and producers treated him as an annoying but very rich grandpa and had to work around his rules to create something interesting for then-modern audience, which they eventually did, especially after Mr Roddenberry had passed away. My impression may be completely wrong though (I only read these production notes from Memory Alpha) and I would love to hear more.

Chuck goes into a lot in this episode review.

Star Trek (TNG): The Bonding

Star Trek Reviews

sfdebris.com

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

Bitch he doesn't even have a gender so what do you call his relationships? Where does that go on your LGBT flag?

I guess you could call him... agender fluid.

That's the biggest difference between classic and nu Trek. Classic Trek was always about expanding the possibilities - challenging your imagination. "What if we meet people that not only disagree with us, but CANNOT EVER agree with us because our existences are so different?"

There can't be any kind of unbridgable conflict between two parties on opposite end of some kind of issue. Love conquers all, believe women and all that jazz, so Burnham or whatever chucklefuck femtard Picard is dragging around will solve the issue with their superior feminine wits, superior feminie empathy and superior feminine morals. If push comes to shove, some genderspecial snowflake will pull a Steven Universe solution out of their ass.
Even the kind of conflict will be lame, since it won't be a philosophical issue with equally valid points of view at odds with each other, it'll be a petty kindergarten slapfight perpetuated by UGH....MEN!, that can be overcome by telling the one side that's clearly in the wrong to just "let go of their aggression" or some equally harebrained carebear bullshit.

The infantilization of mass media to soapbox about CURRENT YEAR politics in the most asinine and vapid manner is pissing me off so goddamned much.

 

[Starscreams Cape]

THANK YOU! As I've gone on about more than once it bugs me this whole, "DS9 should have had more of teh gays!" it's like - Odo wasn't enough? Bitch he doesn't even have a gender so what do you call his relationships? Where does that go on your LGBT flag?

That's the biggest difference between classic and nu Trek. Classic Trek was always about expanding the possibilities - challenging your imagination. "What if we meet people that not only disagree with us, but CANNOT EVER agree with us because our existences are so different?" Nu-Trek? All about being as "safe" as possible. "Look at how awesome our minorities are! Things would be just so great if you'd shut up and listen to us already." Why bother exploring the galaxy when you already know the answer to everything?

Nu-Trek thinks it has to fight battles that were long won in every other iteration of the show AND 95% WON IN REAL LIFE RIGHT NOW.

 

[Captain Syrup]

Nu-Trek thinks it has to fight battles that were long won in every other iteration of the show AND 95% WON IN REAL LIFE RIGHT NOW.

Nu Trek would take the side of Cardassians against the "terrorists". I'm sure of it.

 

[Jean Lafitte 1812]

There is this "DS9 relaunch" series of books, is it worth reading?

I was reading them for a while due to wanting more DS9. Got up through the Worlds of DS9 series, but never finished that sub series.

They're okay, Nowhere near the highs of the show like In the Pale Moonlight but some good stories to pass the time with ebooks on your phone. They also completely take advantage of being unchained from budget and actor availability. For example they wrote in Ro Laren from TNG as DS9's chief of security. [DS9 show finale spoiler] There are a lot worse ways to spend your time if you liked DS9.

 

[Captain Syrup]

For example they wrote in Ro Laren from TNG as DS9's chief of security

Now I'm curious. Does she interact with Quark at all?

 

[Flaming Carrot]

Rewatching the original series recently really makes me question the "post scarcity utopia" shit, at least for Trek's original vision. I keep catching mentions of and inferences to money existing. One crewman stating that he would bet credits, and Kirk asking Spock rhetorically if he knew how much Starfleet had invested in him and Spock begins to reply with a number before Kirk cuts him off.

And I'm starting to get skeptical of the anti-religion angle the show was allegedly supposed to have given that they ouright have an episode about a parallel Earth where the Roman Empire never fell and there were a bunch of Sun Worshipers, except they were actually Son Worshipers. As in Jesus Christ, whom Kirk mentions by name.

Looks like most of the more truly woke gay space communism shit came from TNG and beyond rather than TOS which essentially seems to be Murica in Space,

I believe in Trouble With Tribbles, Uhura mentions being on a shopping trip, and in some of the early Star Trek novels, earth is portrayed as having a capitalist society.

I think where the socialist utopia thing came in was from Star Trek 4, when Kirk doesn't know what money is. It was sort of a joke that future writers took deadly seriously, even though it's never really been seriously explored or explained. They don't have money anymore, but somehow Picard is able to inherit a vineyard and Sisko's dad has a restaurant.

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

I believe in Trouble With Tribbles, Uhura mentions being on a shopping trip, and in some of the early Star Trek novels, earth is portrayed as having a capitalist society.

I think where the socialist utopia thing came in was from Star Trek 4, when Kirk doesn't know what money is. It was sort of a joke that future writers took deadly seriously, even though it's never really been seriously explored or explained. They don't have money anymore, but somehow Picard is able to inherit a vineyard and Sisko's dad has a restaurant.

At the time, I assumed Kirk meant that he didn't have 20th century money. If I went back in time with my wallet, it's all useless because it hasn't be actually minted yet. How would I use a five dollar bill in the 18th century?

 

[Jean Lafitte 1812]

Now I'm curious. Does she interact with Quark at all?

Oh yeah. They end up dating for quite a while, bonding over both of them being outsiders in Federation culture. It sounds ridiculous, but it was pretty well written. In Worlds of Deep Space 9: Ferenginar Ro, Quark, and Rom have to undermine a plot from Ferenegi traditionalists who want to undo Rom and Moogie's reforms. Out of the ones I read it's probably the best of the sub series, but I always was fascinated at the lore behind Ferenginar and Trill while watching DS9.

I believe in Trouble With Tribbles, Uhura mentions being on a shopping trip, and in some of the early Star Trek novels, earth is portrayed as having a capitalist society.

I think where the socialist utopia thing came in was from Star Trek 4, when Kirk doesn't know what money is. It was sort of a joke that future writers took deadly seriously, even though it's never really been seriously explored or explained. They don't have money anymore, but somehow Picard is able to inherit a vineyard and Sisko's dad has a restaurant.

While on the topics of the books they show the Sisko family restaurant as cashless. You just go in and eat, no payment, and the elder Sisko cooks for the love of it because there's no need to pursue material wealth in the Federation. I assume it's meant to be a cultural thing: food is important to the culture of New Orleans and vineyards are important to France's culture. Sure you could be a holodeck coomer, but what you see of Fed culture implies that people are raised to indulge their interests in a constructive way that adds to Fed culture rather than self destructive overindulgence.

At least that's how I see it working on Earth, the Federation shows some strong deference to individual cultures, with planets like Trill having full on caste systems.

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

I believe in Trouble With Tribbles, Uhura mentions being on a shopping trip, and in some of the early Star Trek novels, earth is portrayed as having a capitalist society.

I think where the socialist utopia thing came in was from Star Trek 4, when Kirk doesn't know what money is. It was sort of a joke that future writers took deadly seriously, even though it's never really been seriously explored or explained. They don't have money anymore, but somehow Picard is able to inherit a vineyard and Sisko's dad has a restaurant.

Calling it a socialist society might be overdoing it, it's a shorthand to refer to a kind of futuristic society where money, labour and economic value work differently than what we know and striving for profits is not necessarily the most common motivation for people. You still have your Harry Mudds who just want some sexy green Gynoid thighs within grabbing distance, you still got a bunch of people who are idealistic and just want to explore space and serve mankind. I mean it's like saying "They have money, therefore it's capitalist".

Picard's vineyard and Sisko's restaurant aren't much of a mystery though. Moneyless society doesn't imply "no personal belongings", that's not even the case in socialism (where you're still allowed to own certain things).

 

[Tasty Tatty]

Both of them are professional actors and therefore exceptional people, but Shatner has a good sense of humor and has done a lot more with his life than Star Track while Takei is still seething about not getting enough lines on a low budget TV show that was cancelled 52 years ago.

I think Takei was in Heroes. It wasn't ST, but it was a big deal. I remember I recognized him from ST and many of my friends have no idea but became of fans of the show either way.

 

[Sexual Chocolate]

I think Takei was in Heroes. It wasn't ST, but it was a big deal. I remember I recognized him from ST and many of my friends have no idea but became of fans of the show either way.

I remember when that came out and it was pretty good until the end of S1

He was also in Command and Conquer Red Alert 3

 

[Sexual Chocolate]

While on the topics of the books they show the Sisko family restaurant as cashless

This is one of the undercooked things about Trekonomics. It's a lot easier to imagine a post-scarcity future with FTL and magic teleportation beams than it is to imagine people willingly sweating their nuts off, night after night, in a busy restaurant to feed complete strangers for free.

Dumbass hu-mons.

 

[Flexo]

This is one of the undercooked things about Trekonomics. It's a lot easier to imagine a post-scarcity future with FTL and magic teleportation beams than it is to imagine people willingly sweating their nuts off, night after night, in a busy restaurant to feed complete strangers for free.

Dumbass hu-mons.

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Then DS9 went and did a comedy episode that ended up being a treatise on how great capitalism is.

Star Trek (DS9): In The Cards

Star Trek Reviews

sfdebris.com

(Oh Chuck has a lot of fun with that one.)

 

[The Nothingness]

Nu Trek would take the side of Cardassians against the "terrorists". I'm sure of it.

I don't know. Cardassians were the closest Nazi allegory in Star Trek (aside from that TOS episode with the Nazi planet) and Nu Trek doesn't want to side with Nazis. Unless they make a genocidal, female Cardassian into a "badass" character (like Michelle Yeoh's Mirrorverse counterpart).

 

[BIG BILL HELL'S]

"William Shatner should have been the first person we ever sent into space, and I’m glad we finally got around to it." - Neil DeGrasse Tyson

"Neil DeGrasse Tyson should have been the second person we ever shot into space, and I regret that we didn't leave him thiere." --Big Bill

 

[Exceptionally Exceptional]

"Neil DeGrasse Tyson should have been the second person we ever shot into space, and I regret that we didn't leave him thiere." --Big Bill

It actually seems like more of a compliment than a dig. The full quote:
"I would say, just walk on the ship and enjoy the ride. Look out the window; look at space. It’s not the final frontier, it’s the next frontier. He’s going to feel that. In retrospect, William Shatner should have been the first person we ever sent into space, and I’m glad we finally got around to it."

William Shatner, as Captain Kirk, made the idea of interstellar exploration cool in a way that would go on to inspire shit like Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon. How many people grew up wanting to become astronauts because of him?

 

[Raoul_Duke]

It actually seems like more of a compliment than a dig. The full quote:
"I would say, just walk on the ship and enjoy the ride. Look out the window; look at space. It’s not the final frontier, it’s the next frontier. He’s going to feel that. In retrospect, William Shatner should have been the first person we ever sent into space, and I’m glad we finally got around to it."

William Shatner, as Captain Kirk, made the idea of interstellar exploration cool in a way that would go on to inspire shit like Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon. How many people grew up wanting to become astronauts because of him?

Erm, I hate to correct you on this, but Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon pre-dated Star Trek by at least thirty years. But yes, Star Trek did help popularize the exploration of space, among many other things.

 

[Exceptionally Exceptional]

Erm, I hate to correct you on this, but Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon pre-dated Star Trek by at least thirty years. But yes, Star Trek did help popularize the exploration of space, among many other things.

See, I fucking knew it but all I could find at first was the 1960s Buck Rogers series and the 1980s Flash Gordon movie and thought I got shit wrong thinking those series were older.

Either way, Kirk is right up there with Gordon and Rogers when you think of space captains.