Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

[Flexo]

I watched one of my favorite TNG (2-part) episodes tonight. "Chain of Command." I have some thoughts...

-Admiral Nechayev pisses me off. I can't decide whether to call her Admiral Bitchayev, or Admiral Betrayev, but both are accurate. Fuck that bitch.

-I have heard some cucks try to defend Captain Jellico before, but he's just terrible. The dude clearly cares more about waving his dick around in front of a crew that (for all he knows) he wont even be leading for that long, than actually being an effective leader. He makes arbitrary changes to a crew used to doing things one way for 5+ years, and is blatantly shown to not even make the minimal effort of giving the crew the resources to make those changes happen. Literally only one of those changes (Making Troy wearing an actual uniform) was an actual good order. Fuck that douche.

-This is one of the *best* looks into Cardassians Trek ever gave us, even compared to DS9. (Which I generally prefer to TNG) The scene between Gul Madred and his daughter, in front of a tortured Picard was particularly great.

-Both Picard and Madred were wrong, there weren't 4 lights, there weren't even 5 lights, there were like a couple hundred mini leds behind the 4 main ones.

-I like the scene where Jellico and Riker tell each other how much they both suck... Both were right. Riker was a *tad* smug, but frankly he deserved it at that point due to how shitty Jellico had been before that.

-Finally, I don't think Riker being "tha best pilot evar" had been established before this episode. The only thing even *hinting* at this that I remember is him "manually docking" the two halves of the Enterprise in the pilot episode, which was directly stated by Picard to be a "routine maneuver". (Though admittedly, they had the transporter chief at the con at the time, so that's probably more impressive than it would usually be.)

Obligatory: https://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/t236.php

Apparently David Warner was brought in at the last minute and was literally doing his scenes while reading cue cards. THAT is how good of an actor that man is. This episode did do a lot right by the cardassians.

That episode was also supposed to cross over with DS9.

Again, EU isn't canon. But it's funny... I didn't even mention this, But I was actually ok with a lot of Jellico's early shit. He was ok having a different commanding style from Picard, he was just a dick for asking for the crew to completely change everything on his whim in a matter of hours just because he said so, it was particularly dickish for him to give engineering a strict time table for an arbitrary change that was technically feasible with a full staff, and then switching a large chunk of them to security.

I won't repeat any of the defenses SFDebris made except for the "no reason" or "whim" part. Like @Stab You in the Back said above, Jellico believed that a war could break out any moment so a lot of his changes actually make sense if you think about trying to have a ship ready for combat at a moment's notice. (i.e. the shift change? shorter shifts = keeps the crew from getting exhausted = more rested and less likely to make mistakes in combat)

Had this been done nowadays it would have been interesting to seen that stretched out over a whole season with Jellico in charge of the Enterprise and aiming to rescue Picard. Chain of Command is everything in TNG done right.

 

[XYZpdq]

Bitcheyev a shit.
Also didn't Riker use the joystick to control the Enterprise in whichever movie?

 

[drtoboggan]

Bitcheyev a shit.
Also didn't Riker use the joystick to control the Enterprise in whichever movie?

Yes. It was Insurrection. Even the cast hates that movie and Nemesis.

 

[UnKillFill]

edit: If you're going to criticize Chain of Command for anything, how about the Federation sending two geriatrics and a Klingon (the least stealthy race in the galaxy) on a black ops mission together.

Oh man, how did I forget to mention that? (I was definitely thinking it, I swear.) Yeah that was not good...

They gave some lip service about how Picard was the "only" person who knew enough about the bio weapons or whatever, but he and Beverly could have (should have) been support staff in communication with a team of younger/less important officers. If for no other reason than that the captain of the Federation's flagship is clearly too important to be captured.

Even though he's not particularly stealthy, I actually think Worf was a good choice for the mission. If it went belly up (like it did) he's probably the best member of the crew to be there aside from maybe Data. Case in point, he got himself and Beverly out. (Unless the Cardassians have plastic barrels on their side, those are like kryptonite for Klingons.)

Obligatory: https://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/t236.php

Apparently David Warner was brought in at the last minute and was literally doing his scenes while reading cue cards. THAT is how good of an actor that man is. This episode did do a lot right by the cardassians.

That episode was also supposed to cross over with DS9.

I won't repeat any of the defenses SFDebris made except for the "no reason" or "whim" part. Like @Stab You in the Back said above, Jellico believed that a war could break out any moment so a lot of his changes actually make sense if you think about trying to have a ship ready for combat at a moment's notice. (i.e. the shift change? shorter shifts = keeps the crew from getting exhausted = more rested and less likely to make mistakes in combat)

Had this been done nowadays it would have been interesting to seen that stretched out over a whole season with Jellico in charge of the Enterprise and aiming to rescue Picard. Chain of Command is everything in TNG done right.

I've seen the SFDebris episode before. I watched it again today for the first time in a while, and don't particularly disagree with anything he said. (He didn't say Jellico was right, he just praised the episode for making it ambiguous.) David Warner did a great job, and it's a shame they never got Madred back for DS9

So I'm trying to re-watch Enterprise (A series I've never particularly loved, but one that I wanted to give another chance to, particularly seeing how bad it's gotten since then.) Except I'm quickly getting bored with it. Any thoughts as to when it gets "good"? (Don't say season 3/Season 4 etc, give me a specific good episode to watch- The earlier in the show's run, the better.)

 

[ToroidalBoat]

Except I'm quickly getting bored with it.

There sure are a lot of "multipart episodes" that aren't really such.

Spoiler

Like the series of episodes where they go into some crazy space where the Xindi live.

 

[UnKillFill]

There sure are a lot of "multipart episodes" that aren't really such.

Spoiler

Like the series of episodes where they go into some crazy space where the Xindi live.

I don't think you understood what I was looking for @_@. I specifically want a good single episode, preferably in the first 2 seasons (but I'll settle for a single good episode later). I've heard that the show as a whole gets better in season 3, and especially in season 4, but I'm hoping for this show to win me over as a whole so I want to see it at its best.

 

[Flexo]

I don't think you understood what I was looking for @_@. I specifically want a good single episode, preferably in the first 2 seasons (but I'll settle for a single good episode later). I've heard that the show as a whole gets better in season 3, and especially in season 4, but I'm hoping for this show to win me over as a whole so I want to see it at its best.

Man that's going to be tough. I know I tried to stick out Enterprise when it was first airing but just couldn't do it. Glancing at SFDebris' rating list, "Minefield" seems to be the highest rated one from the first 2 seasons and that's just a 7. (I still can't believe that with a prequel series the show runners never gave us the Federation/Romulan war.)
https://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/e129.php

 

[drtoboggan]

Man that's going to be tough. I know I tried to stick out Enterprise when it was first airing but just couldn't do it. Glancing at SFDebris' rating list, "Minefield" seems to be the highest rated one from the first 2 seasons and that's just a 7. (I still can't believe that with a prequel series the show runners never gave us the Federation/Romulan war.)
https://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/e129.php

They wanted to but the series was cut short. Enterprise had a lot of potential that Berman and Braga screwed up with their inconsistent writing.

 

[Flexo]

They wanted to but the series was cut short. Enterprise had a lot of potential that Berman and Braga screwed up with their inconsistent writing.

Well yeah but we got a whole season of the Xindi thing which could have been the Romulan conflict.

Before that the conflict between Vulcans and Andorians I thought had some potential as we know both of them will eventually join the Federation. But they had to go and do... nothing with it. Despite one of the Andorians being Jeffery freakin' Combs, man!

 

[Miller]

Well yeah but we got a whole season of the Xindi thing which could have been the Romulan conflict.

I've heard that Manny Coto wanted to do more Romulan episodes in the 5th season and it would've lead to the Romulan war in season 6.

Man that's going to be tough. I know I tried to stick out Enterprise when it was first airing but just couldn't do it. Glancing at SFDebris' rating list, "Minefield" seems to be the highest rated one from the first 2 seasons and that's just a 7. (I still can't believe that with a prequel series the show runners never gave us the Federation/Romulan war.)
https://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/e129.php

I wouldn't trust SFDebris. He seems to enjoy STD.

 

[Flexo]

I wouldn't trust SFDebris. He seems to enjoy STD.

Well if you compare him to Doomcock... sure. But then I don't think anybody on earth can hate Discovery as much as he can. Still SFDebris raked Discovery over the coals a few times. His bit about Lurka's (don't care enough to spell the name right) execution is hilarious and on point.

 

[drtoboggan]

Well yeah but we got a whole season of the Xindi thing which could have been the Romulan conflict.

Before that the conflict between Vulcans and Andorians I thought had some potential as we know both of them will eventually join the Federation. But they had to go and do... nothing with it. Despite one of the Andorians being Jeffery freakin' Combs, man!

I agree. The Vulcan/Andorian conflict should have gone somewhere. The Xindi were interesting but a whole season on them was overkill. I also feel the Temporal Cold War wasn't used properly.

 

[Miller]

Well if you compare him to Doomcock... sure. But then I don't think anybody on earth can hate Discovery as much as he can.

True but I wish more people would speak out against Discovery. Every Trek fansites (like Trekmovie) or forums are avoiding the problems with Discovery, they all act like it's the best thing ever made.

 

[Flexo]

True but I wish more people would speak out against Discovery. Every Trek fansites (like Trekmovie) or forums are avoiding the problems with Discovery, they all act like it's the best thing ever made.

Well now chuck definitely doesn't think it's that great.

Here maybe this will help.

 

[Stab You in the Back]

Enterprise was painfully sterile, but I think it also recycled a lot of TNG and Voyager plots which added to the overall dullness of the show. Good early season episodes.... I dunno. Maybe Acquisition, the Ferengi episode. Its a tolerable bottle episode that gives the characters something to do besides drone on and on at each other. Only downside is that Tucker's cock and balls are on full display for most of the episode.

Before that the conflict between Vulcans and Andorians I thought had some potential as we know both of them will eventually join the Federation. But they had to go and do... nothing with it. Despite one of the Andorians being Jeffery freakin' Combs, man!

One of the rumors I heard about Enterprise is that they were going to make Shran a permanent crewmember in Season 5. Probably bullshit, but its one of the long list of proposed Enterprise storylines and changes falling under the "Why didn't they do this in season 2?" category.

 

[Miller]

One of the rumors I heard about Enterprise is that they were going to make Shran a permanent crewmember in Season 5.

Rumors said that he would've been a crewmember on the NX-01 but I doubt he would've accepted to be among pink-skins. Maybe they would've gave him his own NX ship and crew.

 

[Flexo]

One of the rumors I heard about Enterprise is that they were going to make Shran a permanent crewmember in Season 5. Probably bullshit, but its one of the long list of proposed Enterprise storylines and changes falling under the "Why didn't they do this in season 2?" category.

Exactly. There's so much wasted time in those first two seasons. Hell you could have started most of these ideas in the first season.

I mean if they wanted to really ensure some kind of longevity then planning out 7 seasons, B&B should have thought about each season being how a particular species joined the federation. Make one or two seasons the Romulan war then use backstory like augments as filler and there ya go: a hit.

I still object to an official explanation for the Klingon foreheads though.

 

[Miller]

I think it was Doug Drexler who said that in the original concept for Enterprise they wouldn't have left Earth until the second season. It would've been the equivalent of Apollo 13.

 

[Flexo]

I think it was Doug Drexler who said that in the original concept for Enterprise they wouldn't have left Earth until the second season. It would've been the equivalent of Apollo 13.

I remember that.

And yeah, TWO SEASONS? And we're not talking about 10-13 episode short seasons, these are the big seasons with 26 episodes each. That would have bee 52 EPISODES on earth with a series named STAR TREK!

Damn that series was doomed from the start.

 

[Tookie]

I don't think you understood what I was looking for @_@. I specifically want a good single episode, preferably in the first 2 seasons (but I'll settle for a single good episode later). I've heard that the show as a whole gets better in season 3, and especially in season 4, but I'm hoping for this show to win me over as a whole so I want to see it at its best.

"Minefield" and "Dead Stop" were early in Season 2 and were pretty good. Dead Stop was one of the more memorable episodes of the series IMO. They take place in order but are episodic and standalone, just having a bit of light continuity where the Enterprise gets mangled in Minefield and is still damaged in Dead Stop. Season 2 also had "Cogenitor" which was a more TNG-style episode where they encounter a species with three genders and one of the crew gets entangled with them and fucks everything up royally, I recall they actually did a pretty good job with the issue.

I'm sure there is some OK stuff in Season 1, but I recall it being pretty lousy overall like the first season of all post-TOS trek shows have been.