Sperg about comic books here

[Registration]

Just imagine a live action TV series based on Crossed. It is impossible, but I would love to see the insanity,

 

[Red Hood]

Has DC actually made a successful new character in the last few years? It feels like Marvel managed to churn out at least a few. They might not be pillars of the comic universe, but they're at least mainstream enough so people are aware of them. The best I can really say about DC is they took Harley and boosted her to Trinity level status, and even that I think relied largely on show nostalgia, with most people not knowing anything about the "new" Harley. Maybe Batman Who Laughs? They act like he's popular at the very least, but I've never heard anyone who really likes the character. Oh, I guess there's Jonathan Kent, but it feels like Bendis sort of killed the excitement for that character.

Jon Kent might really be it. He was pretty well liked in the Super Sons comics IIRC. That's about as hype as it gets. Other than that there have been half a dozen aborted Batfam members, a new Wonder Girl no one gives a shit about, soon to be forgotten.

 

[Cyber Bowling]

Jon Kent might really be it. He was pretty well liked in the Super Sons comics IIRC. That's about as hype as it gets. Other than that there have been half a dozen aborted Batfam members, a new Wonder Girl no one gives a shit about, soon to be forgotten.

Oh yeah, I completely forgot about the new Wonder Girl. I was going to be extra generous and say Naomi solely because she's getting her own TV show, but I really don't think anyone beyond Bendis cares about her. But, as long as he's with DC, I imagine he'll at least keep her prominent by shoving her into whatever titles he's working on.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

I think some other people mentioned here how they could have made Duke gay and nobody would really get upset/it'd be an opportunity to try and introduce him into the Bat family proper and do something with him.

I think the biggest failing of Simon Baz is making him a Green Lantern. It was clear the style of stories they wanted to do with him, given his whole introduction is him being a suspected terrorist and all that. They wanted to do the "racist against Muslim" thing with him. But, trying to do that with your intergalactic character is bound to fail because nobody cares about Earth religions in space. You can maybe do a few heavy handed allegory style stories, but eh, I think it works way better with a grounded character. Well, in practice, at least, in reality, I don't think it works at all. Even with Marvel's successful Muslim character in the form of Ms. Marvel, her being Muslim is usually treated as a quirky background thing to show the writer took a few seconds to go on Wikipedia and look up a Muslim phrase or food to mention.

Has DC actually made a successful new character in the last few years? It feels like Marvel managed to churn out at least a few. They might not be pillars of the comic universe, but they're at least mainstream enough so people are aware of them. The best I can really say about DC is they took Harley and boosted her to Trinity level status, and even that I think relied largely on show nostalgia, with most people not knowing anything about the "new" Harley. Maybe Batman Who Laughs? They act like he's popular at the very least, but I've never heard anyone who really likes the character. Oh, I guess there's Jonathan Kent, but it feels like Bendis sort of killed the excitement for that character.

the Jessica Cruz Green Lantern, Jon Kent, the chinese Super-man, and possibly Naomi and Leviathan but those two are Bendis things.

the new Yera Flor Wonder Woman may also count but that depends on how DC handles her. She seems like a potentially fun character.


i'm not keen on counting new batfam members tbh. sometimes they last, other times they're not around for too long.

 

[GranDuke]

I think the biggest failing of Simon Baz is making him a Green Lantern. It was clear the style of stories they wanted to do with him, given his whole introduction is him being a suspected terrorist and all that. They wanted to do the "racist against Muslim" thing with him. But, trying to do that with your intergalactic character is bound to fail because nobody cares about Earth religions in space. You can maybe do a few heavy handed allegory style stories, but eh, I think it works way better with a grounded character. Well, in practice, at least, in reality, I don't think it works at all. Even with Marvel's successful Muslim character in the form of Ms. Marvel, her being Muslim is usually treated as a quirky background thing to show the writer took a few seconds to go on Wikipedia and look up a Muslim phrase or food to mention.

I have a pet theory that Johns had big plans for Simon and they all got aborted when Fialkov left GLC book due to DC asking him to kill John. Johns likely wanted to push his own character as "not white" GL and get all the benefits attached without any negatives, like actually killing John. So since John wasn't killed then Simon was left without a purpose.

Tynion is leaving DC so it doesn't really matter in the end, but I feel like similar thing happened with Tim. He pushed for it, but another writer ended up writing that story. Was Tynion really that busy that he couldn't write few Urban Legends pages for his favourite character? Nah, he let someone else do it so that if there is backlash he would be clean. And if there wasn't then he'd take credit since he was main Batman writer.

 

[jspit2.0]

I think some other people mentioned here how they could have made Duke gay and nobody would really get upset/it'd be an opportunity to try and introduce him into the Bat family proper and do something with him.

I absolutely did. I wouldn't have given a a fuck if they made Duke gay. Hell, they kindof implied Harper Row is if I remember correctly. (Scott Snyder's Batman work isn't memorable enough for me to recall).

I think the biggest failing of Simon Baz is making him a Green Lantern. It was clear the style of stories they wanted to do with him, given his whole introduction is him being a suspected terrorist and all that.

Don't get me started. The hoops you have to go through to make Simon Baz a suspected terrorist. He was associating with terrorists, was in a car with a bomb going to blow something up. But he was innocent guys! Its so bizarre.

I'm not going to pretend there isn't anti-islamic sentiment. Not like after 9/11, still some exists. But the cartoonish level of it combined with just how ridiculous Johns went with that origin ruined what should have been the final arc of Hal Jordan's story.

As a side complaint, how much more interesting would Simon have been if he was a former radicalized Muslim? They do exist and seeing Simon come to terms with how small he is in the universe and changing would have been so much more powerful than his victimhood narrative.

Even with Marvel's successful Muslim character in the form of Ms. Marvel, her being Muslim is usually treated as a quirky background thing to show the writer took a few seconds to go on Wikipedia and look up a Muslim phrase or food to mention.

I'm not sure how successful Kamala really is. We're in this weird time where success is measured by what we're told is successful by corporations. I don't know allot of little kids that actually love Ms. Marvel.

Has DC actually made a successful new character in the last few years?

Not really. Margot Robbie in Suicide Squad took Harley, who was always extremely popular with comic book fans, and made her popular with non-readers. As to new creations it's more a chicken and the egg.

I don't feel either DC or Marvel have had a big success creatively in the last ten years.

Just imagine a live action TV series based on Crossed. It is impossible, but I would love to see the insanity,

I can't even.

the Jessica Cruz Green Lantern, Jon Kent, the chinese Super-man, and possibly Naomi and Leviathan but those two are Bendis things.

the new Yera Flor Wonder Woman may also count but that depends on how DC handles her. She seems like a potentially fun character.


i'm not keen on counting new batfam members tbh. sometimes they last, other times they're not around for too long.

Jessica Cruz is good, but she's a knock off Lantern. I wouldn't call Bendis and commie Superman a success plus commie superman is a rip off of a popular brand.

New characters, DC has created a bunch. Sideways, Silencer, and some Morrison creations from Multiversity are all very interesting. They just haven't landed unfortunately.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

I absolutely did. I wouldn't have given a a fuck if they made Duke gay. Hell, they kindof implied Harper Row is if I remember correctly. (Scott Snyder's Batman work isn't memorable enough for me to recall).



Don't get me started. The hoops you have to go through to make Simon Baz a suspected terrorist. He was associating with terrorists, was in a car with a bomb going to blow something up. But he was innocent guys! Its so bizarre.

I'm not going to pretend there isn't anti-islamic sentiment. Not like after 9/11, still some exists. But the cartoonish level of it combined with just how ridiculous Johns went with that origin ruined what should have been the final arc of Hal Jordan's story.

As a side complaint, how much more interesting would Simon have been if he was a former radicalized Muslim? They do exist and seeing Simon come to terms with how small he is in the universe and changing would have been so much more powerful than his victimhood narrative.



I'm not sure how successful Kamala really is. We're in this weird time where success is measured by what we're told is successful by corporations. I don't know allot of little kids that actually love Ms. Marvel.



Not really. Margot Robbie in Suicide Squad took Harley, who was always extremely popular with comic book fans, and made her popular with non-readers. As to new creations it's more a chicken and the egg.

I don't feel either DC or Marvel have had a big success creatively in the last ten years.



I can't even.



Jessica Cruz is good, but she's a knock off Lantern. I wouldn't call Bendis and commie Superman a success plus commie superman is a rip off of a popular brand.

New characters, DC has created a bunch. Sideways, Silencer, and some Morrison creations from Multiversity are all very interesting. They just haven't landed unfortunately.

ccp Superman isn't a bad idea per se but yeah.

Jessica Cruz was an EVS creation iirc. She's fun.


I wish they did more with the Immortal Men and Damage from that wave of stuff. They had some fun ideas that could have led to interesting things. I know The Terrifics has been a decent bit of fun and shows that you can frame Mr. Terrific without directly tying him to JSA.

It might have been a better idea to just fucking have major JSA characters guest star in titles for a few months to reintegrate them. I know they've incorporated Jay Garrick (and Max Mercury to a lesser extent) into the Flash books. Why not give Alan Scott some time as a guest star in the Lantern books. I've noticed it seems like they fucking flat-out revived some of the other formerly dead JSA OGs at the end of Doomsday Clock. Why not toss them across different books for guest-starring stories? They're all pretty beloved characters with a shitload of potential for stories.

The Legion's been weird. Bendis is really hit or miss and this time he's kinda mostly missed bc unlike the Marvel "classic C/B tier heroes" he worked with like Luke Cage and Jessica Drew.

I also don't like this slow buildup of whatever Leviathan's up to, and whatever Brainiac 5 is leading up to, and whatever the fuck is Naomi's deal.

It's all too slow and clunky, hindered by Bendis' propensity for slowing shit down with text.

 

[Smaug's Smokey Hole]

Sort of on the topic of making characters gay(and trans, just wait), imagine if they did the Psylocke "yeah I'm asian now" thing in this day and age.

 

[jspit2.0]

ccp Superman isn't a bad idea per se but yeah.

Still bad outside of something ala Red Son Superman. Unless you want to brilliantly deconstruct China in a master piece with subtlety it just doesn't work. That's not what they did and it went about as well as I expected.

Jessica Cruz was an EVS creation iirc. She's fun.

At best he designed her. Which, hey, I like the design. I like the initial concept in Justice League. Its one of a million ideas Geoff introduced and discarded. She's just another diversity Lantern now. Which sucks because she's got the third best story personality of a GL after Hal and Guy.

I wish they did more with the Immortal Men and Damage from that wave of stuff. They had some fun ideas that could have led to interesting things. I know The Terrifics has been a decent bit of fun and shows that you can frame Mr. Terrific without directly tying him to JSA.

It was certainly interesting. Terrifics fell flat for me after the first year and Immortal Men disappointed as I wanted more and Tynion, following type, delivered less.

It might have been a better idea to just fucking have major JSA characters guest star in titles for a few months to reintegrate them. I know they've incorporated Jay Garrick (and Max Mercury to a lesser extent) into the Flash books. Why not give Alan Scott some time as a guest star in the Lantern books. I've noticed it seems like they fucking flat-out revived some of the other formerly dead JSA OGs at the end of Doomsday Clock. Why not toss them across different books for guest-starring stories? They're all pretty beloved characters with a shitload of potential for stories.

JSA has about three ways it has worked in the past and hundred it has failed. We aren't going without a map here.

1. Authentic parallel universe 70 or so years in our past. They are fighting Hitler. A period piece. Your dealing with characters created in the 1930s and 40s in a genre that was predominately straight, white, and somewhat male. Every time DC has tried to revisit this they've screwed with it by including cringe virtue signaling. (Roy Thomas All Star Squadron is an example).

2. A parallel universe where heroes existed since WWII and aged since. Equally successful, this provides the ability to diversify and virtue signal without changing things you didn't create. As bad as Roy Thomas' social commentary got (I don't want my pro America comic about robots punching Nazi werewolves to lecture me on the Klan/sexism/Japanese whatever) Infinity Inc was a vibrant, diverse breath of air that was fun if wordy.

3. Have heroes exist since WWII in main universe. Undermines Superman as first hero since he'd be old. Currently trying to make Wondy the first hero. Which is terrible for multiple reasons.

DC has zero interest in following any of successful routes because agenda and ego.

The Legion's been weird.

You don't say. Bendis being on it means its shit for me. I'm an actual Legion and everything I've heard has been its bad. Which didn't surprise me because I've yet to read good Bendis.

Sort of on the topic of making characters gay(and trans, just wait), imagine if they did the Psylocke "yeah I'm asian now" thing in this day and age.

They tried to undo that in the 90s after Jim Lee left. It was a shit show. The whole big brain, deep, mediative thing Claremont and Jim Lee were doing with her just goes completely over SJWs heads.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

Still bad outside of something ala Red Son Superman. Unless you want to brilliantly deconstruct China in a master piece with subtlety it just doesn't work. That's not what they did and it went about as well as I expected.

yeah it just went down some westernized mangling of Chinese mysticism or powers and then fizzled out.

At best he designed her. Which, hey, I like the design. I like the initial concept in Justice League. Its one of a million ideas Geoff introduced and discarded. She's just another diversity Lantern now. Which sucks because she's got the third best story personality of a GL after Hal and Guy.

She could work, but I think the entire issue is having too many lanterns.

lol Sojourner got fucked by the covid things so she's had no real traction outside of twitterites squeeling.

It was certainly interesting. Terrifics fell flat for me after the first year and Immortal Men disappointed as I wanted more and Tynion, following type, delivered less.

Terrifics was interesting, then it got too much into the comic book dimensional shenanigans.

Immortal Men could have been so interesting considering they have a hundred or so golden age heroes they could have just reused the names of.

JSA has about three ways it has worked in the past and hundred it has failed. We aren't going without a map here.

1. Authentic parallel universe 70 or so years in our past. They are fighting Hitler. A period piece. Your dealing with characters created in the 1930s and 40s in a genre that was predominately straight, white, and somewhat male. Every time DC has tried to revisit this they've screwed with it by including cringe virtue signaling. (Roy Thomas All Star Squadron is an example).

2. A parallel universe where heroes existed since WWII and aged since. Equally successful, this provides the ability to diversify and virtue signal without changing things you didn't create. As bad as Roy Thomas' social commentary got (I don't want my pro America comic about robots punching Nazi werewolves to lecture me on the Klan/sexism/Japanese whatever) Infinity Inc was a vibrant, diverse breath of air that was fun if wordy.

3. Have heroes exist since WWII in main universe. Undermines Superman as first hero since he'd be old. Currently trying to make Wondy the first hero. Which is terrible for multiple reasons.

DC has zero interest in following any of successful routes because agenda and ego.

We're at the point where Roy Thomas would be far more preferable to the majority of DC/Marvel writers.

I enjoyed his All Star Squadron stuff, but I think he handled Amazing Man and Tsunami a little too ham-fistedly. But, I'll admit it had that comic book corniness that made me just take it as it was.

1. Earth-2 Works but if and only if they set it up properly. I think it can work, but a problem I had with the All-Star Squadron was just a lack of compelling villains. Sure, we had Baron Blitzkrieg and the Dragon Lord or w/e the big Japanese baddie was called. It just needs compelling villains. The early golden age supervillains were incorporated but Roy Thomas kinda autistically tried to work them into their IRL chronological appearances. IMO, a lot of what he did was fun but the major flaw was the lackluster use of villains. I didn't even mind the creation of more "ethnic" heroes like Amazing Man, Tsunami, and Flying Fox. Perhaps they could try combining elements of the Roy Thomas stuff with James Robinson's Golden Age, Cooke's New Frontier, and the post OG Crisis-Pre Final Crisis stuff regarding the 30s-40s.
   1. I'll be the first to say that Roy Thomas' had a ton of fun ideas. I just wish he had better villains. His villains for the Invaders were better and he barely tried lmfao.
2. This idea sorta works well. Hell, Superman/Wonder Woman don't age like normal people so the only weird thing would be the Batman family itself. I could see this being fun, but it'd take a little time to setup.
3. Wondy being the first hero doesn't work too well. I could buy Sandman or the Crimson Avenger or even Dr. Occult. I mean it could be fun, but she's not exactly a rallying point. Her entire thing in the golden age was starting off as a hopeful and naive young heroine going into the world. This doesn't work too well. However, I can easily see them writing her into. . .the JSA origin story.
   1. This gets funnier if we remember DCs old narrative that there were a lot of adventurers and masked vigilantes before the "real" superheroes appeared.

DC is going to get shafted and fucking embarrassed. They'll be relegated to just publishing Batman books and whatever remains of the AAA titles soon enough. People want the heroes as they've grown attached. We're at the nth Aquaman book and he's still just not that interesting. I think a King of the Oceans type hero like Aquaman/Namor works best as a major supporting character and not necessarily as a protagonist of a book.

Alternatively, DC doesn't learn and turns the JSA into strawmen representing Boomers.

You don't say. Bendis being on it means its shit for me. I'm an actual Legion and everything I've heard has been its bad. Which didn't surprise me because I've yet to read good Bendis.



They tried to undo that in the 90s after Jim Lee left. It was a shit show. The whole big brain, deep, mediative thing Claremont and Jim Lee were doing with her just goes completely over SJWs heads.

I liked the old Legion stuff, but it just kinda fucked up after 3 reboots and DC repeatedly pulling the plug.

lol making Psylocke suddenly back in her OG body is funny because explaining that to people is going to be confusing.

Sure, make her a Captain Britain. Hey, anyone remember the other Captain Britain-related heroine they were shilling right before Vision blew up the Avengers mansion?

Yeah, that's right. Noone does.

People probably remember Silverclaw more because she popped up in the Perez run and had a few Civil War era scenes.

Yeah the. . .Indigenous Hispanic Heroine? I forget her deal but it involved shapeshifting.

 

[Water-T]

I get the feeling this "Tim is bi" thing will come and go like the dumb switch to his "Drake" identity that barely lasted a year and then got explained away with "Yeah, he just dropped it for reasons. Stop asking questions about it"

 

[Boston Brand]

Yeah, DC hasn't really had any of thier attempts at new characters take off, have they?

The Green Lanterns, as mentioned, are a great example. We already had issues figuring out what to do with the four extant Green Lanterns, and they went and introduced four more in under a decade!

You had Geoff Johns get his glorified self-insert Simon Baz, that NK Jemison created one from the Far Sector miniseries I don't think I even see Jemison bother trying to hype up, the 5G Green Lantern I can't be bothered to remember, and Jeasica Cruz... Cruz is maybe the only one to pick up because they keep shoehorning her in everything, but even she was redundant... you ever want to know how hard DC editorial hates Kyle Raynor, they hyped Jessica as the first Hispanic Lantern, when Raynor has been Mexican-American since the 90s.

Hell, even Harley Quinn, for all her hype, doesn't seem to be selling a lot of movie tickets... 1 oit 3 movies with her didn't bomb at the box office, and unless they've sold $600 million worth of Harley Quinn costumes, she's lost WB/DC more money than she's ever made.

The baffling thing is, from the 90s until the New 52, DC was prettt great at selling new characters. Go back and look at the characters that were popular in the 90s or 2000s. Steel, the Milestone characters, Lobo, Zauriel, Plastic Man, Zatanna, Constantine, Booster Gold, you had some real interesting stuff there... and they were doing interesting stuff with the core characters.

Then they tossed that all out so Dido/Johns and the rest could redo thier version of the Silver Age.

Now? I can't think of a DC characters post-New 52 whose push has been successful... forget the new characters, they couldn't get Cyborg to do anything meaningful in a decade of pushing him as the League's token black because Johns would kill himself if John Stewart got to be the lead Lantern instead of Hal.

Now they can't even get Aquaman and The Flash to have successful solo titles, much less have a prayer of Naomi ever catching on.

DC Comics is a company that literally had the playbook for success in its hands... and then this past decade only used it as tinder to burn the company down.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

Yeah, DC hasn't really had any of thier attempts at new characters take off, have they?

The Green Lanterns, as mentioned, are a great example. We already had issues figuring out what to do with the four extant Green Lanterns, and they went and introduced four more in under a decade!

You had Geoff Johns get his glorified self-insert Simon Baz, that NK Jemison created one from the Far Sector miniseries I don't think I even see Jemison bother trying to hype up, the 5G Green Lantern I can't be bothered to remember, and Jeasica Cruz... Cruz is maybe the only one to pick up because they keep shoehorning her in everything, but even she was redundant... you ever want to know how hard DC editorial hates Kyle Raynor, they hyped Jessica as the first Hispanic Lantern, when Raynor has been Mexican-American since the 90s.

Hell, even Harley Quinn, for all her hype, doesn't seem to be selling a lot of movie tickets... 1 oit 3 movies with her didn't bomb at the box office, and unless they've sold $600 million worth of Harley Quinn costumes, she's lost WB/DC more money than she's ever made.

The baffling thing is, from the 90s until the New 52, DC was prettt great at selling new characters. Go back and look at the characters that were popular in the 90s or 2000s. Steel, the Milestone characters, Lobo, Zauriel, Plastic Man, Zatanna, Constantine, Booster Gold, you had some real interesting stuff there... and they were doing interesting stuff with the core characters.

Then they tossed that all out so Dido/Johns and the rest could redo thier version of the Silver Age.

Now? I can't think of a DC characters post-New 52 whose push has been successful... forget the new characters, they couldn't get Cyborg to do anything meaningful in a decade of pushing him as the League's token black because Johns would kill himself if John Stewart got to be the lead Lantern instead of Hal.

Now they can't even get Aquaman and The Flash to have successful solo titles, much less have a prayer of Naomi ever catching on.

DC Comics is a company that literally had the playbook for success in its hands... and then this past decade only used it as tinder to burn the company down.

DC had the playbook for success and could have turned B list staples like Zatanna and Constantine into A listers, but fucked it up.

they fuck up by inconsistently pushing the B and C list faves in a meaningful way, like Booster Gold, Plastic Man, Steel, Lobo; all of these dudes were popular enough to get solo books in the 2000s and then suddenly it's all gone.

N52 sucked because it tore out all of the framework and then denied it existed outside of the big silver age staple JL characters and some other major sidekicks. Still fucked the Titans for no reason tho.



this sucks because DC right before the N52 was on the road to some fun shit. James Robinson's last issue of his JLA run was a compressed map of shit he'd planned that just took fun stuff from all across DC history into the stories.


Now DC can barely sell Batman books.

 

[Water-T]

Now they can't even get Aquaman and The Flash to have successful solo titles, much less have a prayer of Naomi ever catching on.

Naomi is another case of DC hyping up a shit character simply because she is Bendis' pet.

The first issue and the cover hyped it up as NAOMI BLOWS OPEN A HUGE SECRET IN THE DCU (THAT MIGHT INVOLVE SUPERMAN. NO REALLY, THIS ISN'Y BAIT AND SWITCH WE SWEAR!)

...only for the secret being that she's from another dimension. Supes has fuck-all to do with it.

Then they wedged her in Young Justice, where she did nothing.

Now she's in the JLA because BENDIS' PET.

Can someone give her actual code name? VILLAINS BEWARE! HERE COMES NAOMI!

 

[Jonah Hill poster]

Invincible Compendium Volumes 1, 2 and 3 are back on the market after being sold out early in the year due to the popularity of the animated series on Amazon Prime.

I think I might pick up a copy during the beginning of the Fall season.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

Naomi is another case of DC hyping up a shit character simply because she is Bendis' pet.

The first issue and the cover hyped it up as NAOMI BLOWS OPEN A HUGE SECRET IN THE DCU (THAT MIGHT INVOLVE SUPERMAN. NO REALLY, THIS ISN'Y BAIT AND SWITCH WE SWEAR!)

...only for the secret being that she's from another dimension. Supes has fuck-all to do with it.

Then they wedged her in Young Justice, where she did nothing.

Now she's in the JLA because BENDIS' PET.

Can someone give her actual code name? VILLAINS BEWARE! HERE COMES NAOMI!

i can't wait for us to find out she takes up the mantle of the ray or sth.

 

[Muppet Molester]

Do yourself a favor and check out Requiem: Vampire Knight. It's got that over the top METAL aesthetic that just hits right. It gets so over the top its hilarious

Spoiler: 40k wishes it was this good

 

[Red Hood]

DC had the playbook for success and could have turned B list staples like Zatanna and Constantine into A listers, but fucked it up.

they fuck up by inconsistently pushing the B and C list faves in a meaningful way, like Booster Gold, Plastic Man, Steel, Lobo; all of these dudes were popular enough to get solo books in the 2000s and then suddenly it's all gone.

N52 sucked because it tore out all of the framework and then denied it existed outside of the big silver age staple JL characters and some other major sidekicks. Still fucked the Titans for no reason tho.



this sucks because DC right before the N52 was on the road to some fun shit. James Robinson's last issue of his JLA run was a compressed map of shit he'd planned that just took fun stuff from all across DC history into the stories.


Now DC can barely sell Batman books.

Honestly, unpopular opinion here but DC had some of the best Batfam ever right before N52. Specifically before Bruce came back. The Batfamily essentially pared down to Dick, Barbara, Steph, and Damian had a fantastic dynamic and weren't clogged with as many extraneous characters.

Honestly you could pose them as an almost nuclear family, with crazy uncle Jason and grumpy grandpa Bruce dropping by once in a while. It sounds like a sitcom when I talk about it like that.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

Honestly, unpopular opinion here but DC had some of the best Batfam ever right before N52. Specifically before Bruce came back. The Batfamily essentially pared down to Dick, Barbara, Steph, and Damian had a fantastic dynamic and weren't clogged with as many extraneous characters.

Honestly you could pose them as an almost nuclear family, with crazy uncle Jason and grumpy grandpa Bruce dropping by once in a while. It sounds like a sitcom when I talk about it like that.

don't forget that Tim, pre n52, was doing his Red Robin schtick and he didn't do too badly.

He did go around with mostly titans iirc.

 

[Red Hood]

don't forget that Tim, pre n52, was doing his Red Robin schtick and he didn't do too badly.

He did go around with mostly titans iirc.

It was a pretty good time IMO. I felt like characters were actually maturing and moving forward in ways they hadn't in years. But they wanted to go back to the status quo.