Sperg about comic books here

[Francis York Morgan]

One of the big issues I had with 5G when it was announced and one that I don't recall being brought up anywhere is the absurdity of trying to build an event around a new generation of heroes after the complete squandering of the previous ones.

A good snapshot of that is just looking at the state of the Flash - Jay was retconned out of existence and his status as the "patriarch" thanks to nu52, Wally was also retconned out of existence and replaced with an black kid for diversity points, and Bart I really don't even fucking recall his status in the nu52 but he was treated like garbage in anything outside of Young Justice/Teen Titans because Didio didn't like him. It's just Barry Allen, a character whose peak was in the 80s and despite how hard he's pushed by the Silver Age fanboy crew in the company, he's never really won over the people who became fans with Wally West. And that's not even getting into Flash adjacent characters like the Tornado Twins, Max Mercury, and Johnny and Jessie Quick.

Look at all of Batman's various Robins - how many of them really felt like they had their time in the sun as a prominent member of the superhero community? It's really just Dick - he's the one who got to have his time under the cowl (too brief of a time if you ask me), he's the one who has found real success as his own solo act, and he's in-universe regarded as highly among the various generations of heroes as Superman. Of course, he's also the one Didio always wanted dead for some (likely stupid) reason.

And don't even get me started on Wonder Woman and how completely wasted Donna Troy has been.

 

[Moguro Fukuzou]

Well, they're two different characters almost. But Nu52 Harley and Conner/Palmiotti Harley are different too.

Fun is the goal and do what you need to. I'm abnormal. I can still love allot of Alan Moore or Dave Sims work while being open eyed to them being awful people.

My only reason for reading n52 Harley in the first place was because I heard it was related somewhat to the rebirth release. Still iffy if I'm checking out suicide squad though.

I will give n52 a point for having a pretty fun mini arc with Harley and Power Girl partnering up, but overall it's just been okay mostly. It still weirds me out seeing Harley with black hair, I get what they were going for with her color scheme, but non-blonde Harley is wack. Glad they changed it back for Rebirth.

Horrifying, just horrifying. Especially because she did real Harley right in SS before that.

Slightly ashamed to admit I had fun with Birds of Prey, it had a lot of flaws and being generous it'd get 7/10, but I had fun with it. Really should have been marketed as a Harley Quinn movie since it's largely about her and the actually Birds of Prey only become a thing at the very end. Stand out for me was definitely Margot Robbie as Harley, she seems to have a lot of fun and plays an enjoyable (if different) kind of Harley. Never seen Suicide Squad but I've heard she was one of the best parts in that. Fight scenes were also pretty cool.

Can see why people didn't like it, wouldn't pick defending Birds of Prey as my hill to die on, but I personally found it to be a fun enough romp.

Neat, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the material. Millar did a short three issue run with Texiara around 2000.

From what I've read it seems like Vampirella can't catch a break, just constant getting thrown around or tormented by her enemies. Most of it has been around Vampirella fighting against powerful big bads but I'm curious if there's other more relaxed(?) works where it's just her tracking down random vampires to kill. They touched on it a bit in (I think) monthly with an opening of her fighting vampire confederate soldiers that hid out in a cemetery and I'd like to see more of that kind of stuff. I also enjoyed it when she had some kind of partner going around with her, though they seem on and off about writing one for her. Was also kind of weird that they had Nyx built to be this big bad and then she just kind of disappears? Unless she comes back later it's weird, I don't remember Vampirella killing her, just kind of moved on to vampire mob guys.

Really understand what you meant by that 90s edge, very enjoyable and reminds me a lot of Devilman which is a series I hold very dear. Thinking about it, I think one of the reasons I'm enjoying Vampirella a lot is how much it reminds me of Devilman and more specifically Hellsing (still has yet to reach the craziness of that series though).

Ooooo. I know it's off topic but I'm the opposite. I discovered manga and am loving it. I even don't mind Isekai because for all the bad a new one comes out like Shield Hero.

I've overcome my burnout nowadays and I'm back to enjoying stuff, but I've just become more strict on myself when it comes to what I watch. No longer force myself to watch stuff just because it's popular or to keep up with online discussion. I watch whatever I want at whatever pace I feel like and if I'm not enjoying something I drop it.

My main problem with most isekai, to put it briefly, is just frustration over how few of them try and do something interesting with their setting. Little thought is put into making the fantasy world feel lived in or unique, many are just carbon copies of each other.

Fun is definitely the key. But that's just it. I didn't become burnt out. American comics stopped looking and acting like they did when I fell in love with them. If they put out comics like they did even ten years ago, I would be buying modern DC and Marvel.

I can understand that, sometimes I feel similar when it comes to modern anime or even sometimes modern movies.

Absolutely. I've got so much got stuff to read comic book wise. Let the mainstream rest for a couple of years.

One of the reasons I like to divide my time between multiple hobbies is that when one is waning I can just swap my focus to another until my interest rekindles. Also allows for a backlog of content.

It depends. Animegate definitely helps to disengage. But most CG stuff has nothing to say about modern mainstream comics. They mostly just fight with one another and talk about twitter/creators being assholes. The ones that do, Richard Meyers, Perth, seem to review comics fairly enough. I think they have bad tastes sometimes.

I remember when comicgate first broke I was somewhat interested since there seemed to be legitimate grievances, but now it just seems like a bunch of slapfights and making a mountain out of a mole hill for clicks.

Fun is the goal and do what you need to. I'm abnormal. I can still love allot of Alan Moore or Dave Sims work while being open eyed to them being awful people.

I'm a big fan of old movies, think Golden Age of Hollywood, which sometimes features a lot of problematic content by modern standards. Lots of "Um yikes, let's unpack how racist/homophobic/sexist/etc. this old movie/actor is" whenever people stumble upon them on places like twitter. I've stopped caring at this point, most of the people that complain don't even watch old movies and just want to get mad at something.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

My only reason for reading n52 Harley in the first place was because I heard it was related somewhat to the rebirth release. Still iffy if I'm checking out suicide squad though.

I will give n52 a point for having a pretty fun mini arc with Harley and Power Girl partnering up, but overall it's just been okay mostly. It still weirds me out seeing Harley with black hair, I get what they were going for with her color scheme, but non-blonde Harley is wack. Glad they changed it back for Rebirth.

Slightly ashamed to admit I had fun with Birds of Prey, it had a lot of flaws and being generous it'd get 7/10, but I had fun with it. Really should have been marketed as a Harley Quinn movie since it's largely about her and the actually Birds of Prey only become a thing at the very end. Stand out for me was definitely Margot Robbie as Harley, she seems to have a lot of fun and plays an enjoyable (if different) kind of Harley. Never seen Suicide Squad but I've heard she was one of the best parts in that. Fight scenes were also pretty cool.

Can see why people didn't like it, wouldn't pick defending Birds of Prey as my hill to die on, but I personally found it to be a fun enough romp.

From what I've read it seems like Vampirella can't catch a break, just constant getting thrown around or tormented by her enemies. Most of it has been around Vampirella fighting against powerful big bads but I'm curious if there's other more relaxed(?) works where it's just her tracking down random vampires to kill. They touched on it a bit in (I think) monthly with an opening of her fighting vampire confederate soldiers that hid out in a cemetery and I'd like to see more of that kind of stuff. I also enjoyed it when she had some kind of partner going around with her, though they seem on and off about writing one for her. Was also kind of weird that they had Nyx built to be this big bad and then she just kind of disappears? Unless she comes back later it's weird, I don't remember Vampirella killing her, just kind of moved on to vampire mob guys.

Really understand what you meant by that 90s edge, very enjoyable and reminds me a lot of Devilman which is a series I hold very dear. Thinking about it, I think one of the reasons I'm enjoying Vampirella a lot is how much it reminds me of Devilman and more specifically Hellsing (still has yet to reach the craziness of that series though).

I've overcome my burnout nowadays and I'm back to enjoying stuff, but I've just become more strict on myself when it comes to what I watch. No longer force myself to watch stuff just because it's popular or to keep up with online discussion. I watch whatever I want at whatever pace I feel like and if I'm not enjoying something I drop it.

My main problem with most isekai, to put it briefly, is just frustration over how few of them try and do something interesting with their setting. Little thought is put into making the fantasy world feel lived in or unique, many are just carbon copies of each other.

I can understand that, sometimes I feel similar when it comes to modern anime or even sometimes modern movies.

One of the reasons I like to divide my time between multiple hobbies is that when one is waning I can just swap my focus to another until my interest rekindles. Also allows for a backlog of content.

I remember when comicgate first broke I was somewhat interested since there seemed to be legitimate grievances, but now it just seems like a bunch of slapfights and making a mountain out of a mole hill for clicks.

I'm a big fan of old movies, think Golden Age of Hollywood, which sometimes features a lot of problematic content by modern standards. Lots of "Um yikes, let's unpack how racist/homophobic/sexist/etc. this old movie/actor is" whenever people stumble upon them on places like twitter. I've stopped caring at this point, most of the people that complain don't even watch old movies and just want to get mad at something.

i was raised with a lot of members of the greatest and silent generations around me and 90% of my movie and entertainment intake would be considered problematic.

I mean geez fellas, whats wrong with Song of the South.

 

[jspit2.0]

wasn't Luke fox just kinda thrown in there as a semi-connection to Lucas Fox and as the African Hero Batwing? He's the least offensively asspulled n52 batman family member imo.

Isn't that a statement in and of itself.

Anyways Kyle got the least screwed but in exchange he seems to be drifting about since there's nothing to do with Space Jesus after he's done it all.

Yeah, he's not Hal, Not Jon, and not diversity Muslim lantern I don't give a shit about. Sucks but what can you do.

n52 harley and the solo-book harley sort of exist as almost different characters.

Yeah, and I actually thought NuHarley had some potential. But they made her Deadpool with tits.

My only reason for reading n52 Harley in the first place was because I heard it was related somewhat to the rebirth release. Still iffy if I'm checking out suicide squad though.

Rebirth SS is solid and just like you like BoP knowing its bad, I liked NuSquad. I know its edgy and broken and I shouldn't.

Slightly ashamed to admit I had fun with Birds of Prey,

Hey, we all like horrible, broken messes. Me, it's suicide squad movie because they got the characters right.

From what I've read it seems like Vampirella can't catch a break, just constant getting thrown around or tormented by her enemies.

Yeah, part of that was the editorial mess in the 90s.

but I'm curious if there's other more relaxed(?) works where it's just her tracking down random vampires to kill.

Yes and no? There's Vampi which is a futuristic Vampirella that melds her with manga influence and some other runs on the main.

Really understand what you meant by that 90s edge, very enjoyable and reminds me a lot of Devilman which is a series I hold very dear. Thinking about it, I think one of the reasons I'm enjoying Vampirella a lot is how much it reminds me of Devilman and more specifically Hellsing (still has yet to reach the craziness of that series though).

Ah Hellsing. There's an oldie but a goodie. Hopefully he gets Drifters done sooner rather than later.

My main problem with most isekai, to put it briefly, is just frustration over how few of them try and do something interesting with their setting. Little thought is put into making the fantasy world feel lived in or unique, many are just carbon copies of each other.

I can see that. I just skipped over four Isekai that looked unimaginative recently while thumbing through the catalogue.

I remember when comicgate first broke I was somewhat interested since there seemed to be legitimate grievances, but now it just seems like a bunch of slapfights and making a mountain out of a mole hill for clicks.

Pretty much. You aren't missing much except twenty five dollar comics and drama. I still enjoy watching and laughing. Occasionally there's good YouTube videos. But no, it's not worth your time as a comic book fan.

I'm a big fan of old movies, think Golden Age of Hollywood, which sometimes features a lot of problematic content by modern standards. Lots of "Um yikes, let's unpack how racist/homophobic/sexist/etc. this old movie/actor is" whenever people stumble upon them on places like twitter. I've stopped caring at this point, most of the people that complain don't even watch old movies and just want to get mad at something.

I never cared. Different time, different people. I'm not their God. If something's entertaining have fun, if it isn't then move on.

Judging John Wayne by our standards today is lunacy.

 

[Newman's Lovechild]

wHeRe ArE hEr OrGaNs!?

It's perfectly possible to criticise a professional artist for their ineptitude in basic figure drawing without being a fully paid up subscriber to The Mary Sue, ya know. I doubt that it was that artist's attempt to sex up Supergirl that made him draw her with dislocated shoulders and no ass.

Lastly, the 'Complete Collection' volume that collects Born also has a forward from Garth Ennis. It explains something I was talking about earlier in the thread: how different his early Marvel Knights Punisher stories are compared to his Punisher MAX work. Here it is, for those interested:
View attachment 1830063

The incomparable Goran Parlov, indeed. If anyone feels like defending men who draw cartoon women, there's one who gives the impression he's seen the real article beforehand.

Spoiler

Link for no-embeddy-imagey

 

[Lucifer's Rectum]

It's perfectly possible to criticise a professional artist for their ineptitude in basic figure drawing without being a fully paid up subscriber to The Mary Sue, ya know. I doubt that it was that artist's attempt to sex up Supergirl that made him draw her with dislocated shoulders and no ass.

Nothing takes me out of a comic faster than bad art that's trying to be sexy. Like if you're going to have sexy characters, that's fine but do it well and tastefully. I'd rather not have what's basically a Batgirl strip tease in something like Heroes in Crisis where the whole book is trying (and failing) to be a serious story about trauma.

Also completely totally unrelated, but fuck Tom King. That writer has singlehandedly screwed up more shit I loved at DC over 4 years than Marvel's editorial staff could fuck up with Spidey over 20.

 

[kaien]

The incomparable Goran Parlov, indeed. If anyone feels like defending men who draw cartoon women, there's one who gives the impression he's seen the real article beforehand.

Parlov doesn't draw my favorite Frank (that's probably Leandro Fernandez) but he definitely does my favorite Nick Fury.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

Isn't that a statement in and of itself.

Yeah, he's not Hal, Not Jon, and not diversity Muslim lantern I don't give a shit about. Sucks but what can you do.

Yeah, and I actually thought NuHarley had some potential. But they made her Deadpool with tits.


Rebirth SS is solid and just like you like BoP knowing its bad, I liked NuSquad. I know its edgy and broken and I shouldn't.

Hey, we all like horrible, broken messes. Me, it's suicide squad movie because they got the characters right.

Yeah, part of that was the editorial mess in the 90s.

Yes and no? There's Vampi which is a futuristic Vampirella that melds her with manga influence and some other runs on the main.

Ah Hellsing. There's an oldie but a goodie. Hopefully he gets Drifters done sooner rather than later.

I can see that. I just skipped over four Isekai that looked unimaginative recently while thumbing through the catalogue.

Pretty much. You aren't missing much except twenty five dollar comics and drama. I still enjoy watching and laughing. Occasionally there's good YouTube videos. But no, it's not worth your time as a comic book fan.


I never cared. Different time, different people. I'm not their God. If something's entertaining have fun, if it isn't then move on.

Judging John Wayne by our standards today is lunacy.

they haven't done anything with Simon Baz, the muslim lantern.

 

[Francis York Morgan]

they haven't done anything with Simon Baz, the muslim lantern.

I keep forgetting that Simon even exists. There's already way too many human Lanterns and they keep adding to the pile. Even when it was just the four (well, five including Alan Scott), they were struggling for story spots. I don't even know why since the only one that gets significant use is Hal Jordan (the worst one but at least he has a proto-lolcow fanbase).

 

[Alexander Thaut]

I keep forgetting that Simon even exists. There's already way too many human Lanterns and they keep adding to the pile. Even when it was just the four (well, five including Alan Scott), they were struggling for story spots. I don't even know why since the only one that gets significant use is Hal Jordan (the worst one but at least he has a proto-lolcow fanbase).

Alan at least had the JSA as a vehicle. Guy had his time in the sun and is forever the JLI GL. John had the DCAU.
Kyle was the GL for an entire generation and is sort of just worfed these days.



Jessica makes sense from a story point of view and is interesting. Simon is????

 

[Lucifer's Rectum]

Alan at least had the JSA as a vehicle. Guy had his time in the sun and is forever the JLI GL. John had the DCAU.
Kyle was the GL for an entire generation and is sort of just worfed these days.

Jessica makes sense from a story point of view and is interesting. Simon is????

I never really understood why they bothered introducing Simon so quickly after Jessica. They didn't even do anything with him, what was the point?

 

[Newman's Lovechild]

To give muslims a pat on the head after a decade of kicking the shit out of them? Their very own face in a green crowd.

 

[jspit2.0]

I never really understood why they bothered introducing Simon so quickly after Jessica. They didn't even do anything with him, what was the point?

He got introduced first. Literally Geoffs grand finale and wasted half the final arc on Simon. No one cared.

Jessica, on the other hand, people loved.

Might be due to Simon's origin being shit virtue signal. Geoff pushed him hard. Put him in Forever Evil (no one cared), shoved him into every GL miniseries (no one cared), and finally teaming up with Jessica in a GLs containment book. The last one kindof worked and now Jessica has him stuck to her like an unwanted parasite.

To give muslims a pat on the head after a decade of kicking the shit out of them? Their very own face in a green crowd.

I'd agree except even after 9/11, comics were going out of there way to kiss islam's ass. It was fucking weak.

Alan at least had the JSA as a vehicle. Guy had his time in the sun and is forever the JLI GL. John had the DCAU.
Kyle was the GL for an entire generation and is sort of just worfed these days.



Jessica makes sense from a story point of view and is interesting. Simon is????

Alan isn't even the same, he's magic and the others are science. Guy's fanbase is...divided. John was interesting in the animated universe because Hal never got a chance.

Kyle, look man, real talk. Kyle's probably the least interesting of the four. Plus if you're a fan of any lantern material prior to Emerald Dawn, his stuff leaves a bad taste in your mouth. Not the characters fault. But Ron Marz really did a disservice by not respecting what came before.

 

[Lucifer's Rectum]

He got introduced first. Literally Geoffs grand finale and wasted half the final arc on Simon. No one cared.

Jessica, on the other hand, people loved.

Might be due to Simon's origin being shit virtue signal. Geoff pushed him hard. Put him in Forever Evil (no one cared), shoved him into every GL miniseries (no one cared), and finally teaming up with Jessica in a GLs containment book. The last one kindof worked and now Jessica has him stuck to her like an unwanted parasite.

Alan isn't even the same, he's magic and the others are science. Guy's fanbase is...divided. John was interesting in the animated universe because Hal never got a chance.

Kyle, look man, real talk. Kyle's probably the least interesting of the four. Plus if you're a fan of any lantern material prior to Emerald Dawn, his stuff leaves a bad taste in your mouth. Not the characters fault. But Ron Marz really did a disservice by not respecting what came before.

Shit I didn't know Simon was introduced first. I remember really enjoying the Jessica stuff but Simon always seemed bland to me.

The thing I've noticed with John is that he's got a lot of potential in the comics, but they never really do enough with him. The animated series took all those ideas from the comics though and fleshed them out big time, giving him the time he needed to grow into an interesting character. Shame they haven't really bothered to do the same for him in the comics of late.

I recently read everything from emerald twilight to about when Marz was taken off the book. I never really cared for Hal before then but even reading through that stuff gives the impression that Marz is trying to actively shove Kyle in your face while telling you how much better he is than Hal. In fairness Kyle does get some pretty interesting and unique characterization, and there's some moments farther into the run where it starts to really highlight how big of a legacy Green Lantern really has. But fuck they definitely did Hal dirty in that era. I don't even really care for him as a character and I can still tell you that.

Edit: I just remembered why Kyle's been so boring of late. They sanded his sleezy hornball personality down to the point that it's completely gone.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

He got introduced first. Literally Geoffs grand finale and wasted half the final arc on Simon. No one cared.

Jessica, on the other hand, people loved.

Might be due to Simon's origin being shit virtue signal. Geoff pushed him hard. Put him in Forever Evil (no one cared), shoved him into every GL miniseries (no one cared), and finally teaming up with Jessica in a GLs containment book. The last one kindof worked and now Jessica has him stuck to her like an unwanted parasite.



I'd agree except even after 9/11, comics were going out of there way to kiss islam's ass. It was fucking weak.


Alan isn't even the same, he's magic and the others are science. Guy's fanbase is...divided. John was interesting in the animated universe because Hal never got a chance.

Kyle, look man, real talk. Kyle's probably the least interesting of the four. Plus if you're a fan of any lantern material prior to Emerald Dawn, his stuff leaves a bad taste in your mouth. Not the characters fault. But Ron Marz really did a disservice by not respecting what came before.

I'd say the issue with Kyle is that we've kinda run down his "Torchbearer"/Space Jesus shit and they don't have the balls to kill him or do anything interesting.

Shit I didn't know Simon was introduced first. I remember really enjoying the Jessica stuff but Simon always seemed bland to me.

The thing I've noticed with John is that he's got a lot of potential in the comics, but they never really do enough with him. The animated series took all those ideas from the comics though and fleshed them out big time, giving him the time he needed to grow into an interesting character. Shame they haven't really bothered to do the same for him in the comics of late.

I recently read everything from emerald twilight to about when Marz was taken off the book. I never really cared for Hal before then but even reading through that stuff gives the impression that Marz is trying to actively shove Kyle in your face while telling you how much better he is than Hal. In fairness Kyle does get some pretty interesting and unique characterization, and there's some moments farther into the run where it starts to really highlight how big of a legacy Green Lantern really has. But fuck they definitely did Hal dirty in that era. I don't even really care for him as a character and I can still tell you that.

Edit: I just remembered why Kyle's been so boring of late. They sanded his sleezy hornball personality down to the point that it's completely gone.

you can't have sleaze or hornballs in current year because they get strawmanned as bad guys no matter what.

 

[Lucifer's Rectum]

you can't have sleaze or hornballs in current year because they get strawmanned as bad guys no matter what.

That's the problem, yeah. It's a shame too because I kind of liked Kyle as a sleezy horny 20-something. It was a really interesting contrast when compared to the other lanterns we've got. Besides, it's not like the book ever really made it out to be a good thing that he was like that, in fact pretty much at every turn it would bite him in the ass. It was an interesting character trait that differentiated him from other heroes and doubled as a flaw that resulted in some pretty entertaining situations imo.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

That's the problem, yeah. It's a shame too because I kind of liked Kyle as a sleezy horny 20-something. It was a really interesting contrast when compared to the other lanterns we've got. Besides, it's not like the book ever really made it out to be a good thing that he was like that, in fact pretty much at every turn it would bite him in the ass. It was an interesting character trait that differentiated him from other heroes and doubled as a flaw that resulted in some pretty entertaining situations imo.

i know that it's sort of balanced by his long list of dead girlfriends.

 

[Creep3r]

Surely RWBY will save DC...

http://web.archive.org/web/20210115193026/https://bleedingcool.com/comics/remnant-batman-superman-wonder-woman-in-rwby-justice-league/

 

[jspit2.0]

Surely RWBY will save DC...

http://web.archive.org/web/20210115193026/https://bleedingcool.com/comics/remnant-batman-superman-wonder-woman-in-rwby-justice-league/

View attachment 1862301

That's truly the future. Having ruined a century old legacy and American iconoclast, they now move to destroy Japanese icons.

 

[Newman's Lovechild]

RWBY was never japanese. Made in the US by Roosterteeth, currently a subsidiary of Warner Media. Which makes the attempt to siphon some weeb bucks seem just a little bit more lazy and pathetic.