Sperg about comic books here

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Martys_not_smarty said:
From my understanding comics were an extension of the older formats of hero/idol worship and mythology hell Batman is just a repackaged Zorro and Superman has it's origins in a pulp short story called The Gladiator.
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I'd argue that Batman is a bit more Spring Heeled Jack than Zorro. (He was inspired by both admittedly)

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Martys_not_smarty said:
From my understanding comics were an extension of the older formats of hero/idol worship and mythology hell Batman is just a repackaged Zorro and Superman has it's origins in a pulp short story called The Gladiator.
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The idea that superheroes spring out of mythology, and not - let us say - folk hero type things and pulp fiction, is one of the most idiotic things I’ve ever heard repeated about them.
 
Steamboat_Bill said:
The idea that superheroes spring out of mythology, and not - let us say - folk hero type things and pulp fiction, is one of the most idiotic things I’ve ever heard repeated about them.
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Where does it rank with "The X-Men have always been about the civil rights movement!" when the first 100 issues or so kept implying it was related to nuclear power and Stan Lee clearly being too lazy for origins for the book? That meme only really stuck because "omg minorities" and it makes it seem deeper then it is.
 
Steamboat_Bill said:
The idea that superheroes spring out of mythology, and not - let us say - folk hero type things and pulp fiction, is one of the most idiotic things I’ve ever heard repeated about them.
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There's an air of pretentious snobbery to it I agree, but it's not entirely wrong either. Mythology, folk heroes & pulp fiction are more closely intertwined than you might admit.
 
Ebonic Tutor said:
I'd argue that Batman is a bit more Spring Heeled Jack than Zorro. (He was inspired by both admittedly)

Jack6.jpg
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That's true what I was getting at with Zorro was that they were both wealthy playboys moonlighting as do gooders clad in black one sticking it to the corrupt Mexican government and bandits the other gangsters and supervillains. Also little farther back you could say Zorro got it's influence from the Scarlet Pimpernel so there's that it's all a rather interesting mish-mash.
 
Martys_not_smarty said:
That's true what I was getting at with Zorro was that they were both wealthy playboys moonlighting as do gooders clad in black one sticking it to the corrupt Mexican government and bandits the other gangsters and supervillains. Also little farther back you could say Zorro got it's influence from the Scarlet Pimpernel so there's that it's all a rather interesting mish-mash.
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Totally, it makes more sense on the Bruce Wayne end of things while SHJ is more the costume and gadgets.
 
neural said:
I don't want to sperg too much, but soft reboots are actually far worse than hard ones, with hard ones you at least have a very definite definition for what happened and what didn't.

Soft reboots instead fuzzy the process by picking and choosing what actually happened and what didn't.

I personally agree with @Emperor Julian here, blaming SJWs alone for ruining comics isn't correct, there are various reasons that comics are failing right now, manga for example is one, young people are increasingly going for manga ahead of American comics, for various storytelling and business model reasons.

SJWs only landed the last stab to Julius Caesar's body, we need to look at the other 20 stab wounds on his body if we are to properly diagnose why he died.
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I can see why someone would say this and I rather have no reboots but soft reboots prevent "Aw, this is bullshit" reactions from people who invested time in continuity that is now gone. Yes, it makes the whole thing more fuzzy but that's the purpose of it. DC is set up in a way where it all counts. All those pre-1986 stories are absolutely valid adventures of DC characters even if you have to fudge it a bit to fit the modern narrative. You have to tweak them a bit in your head but they still "happened" as opposed to having multiple hard reboots where we attempt to carve up Batman continuity.

Legit though, Crisis on Infinite Earths was a mistake and "New Earth" didn't really become workable until the 2000s. The New 52 would've resulted in an equally big mess had they not did whatever you want to call the reverse of a reboot.
 
RockVolnutt said:
I can see why someone would say this and I rather have no reboots but soft reboots prevent "Aw, this is bullshit" reactions from people who invested time in continuity that is now gone. Yes, it makes the whole thing more fuzzy but that's the purpose of it. DC is set up in a way where it all counts. All those pre-1986 stories are absolutely valid adventures of DC characters even if you have to fudge it a bit to fit the modern narrative. You have to tweak them a bit in your head but they still "happened" as opposed to having multiple hard reboots where we attempt to carve up Batman continuity.

Legit though, Crisis on Infinite Earths was a mistake and "New Earth" didn't really become workable until the 2000s. The New 52 would've resulted in an equally big mess had they not did whatever you want to call the reverse of a reboot.
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If you do it once every decade or two, it's gonna be fine because you're dealing with a new generation of readers.

But DC, and to a lesser extent, Marvel has been extremely reboot happy the past few years, it's gotten to the point where I just got done with Comics, and only read comics that are standalone (for the superhero variety, this means stuff like Earth One for example). Both have been crossover happy as well, and it's got to the point where

Manga is far, far better about this, retcons are extremely rare, and the only actual manga reboot that I can think of is the ending of JoJo's Bizarre Adventure part 6. Every series is self-contained, so it's easy to follow with minimal crossovers, even if this can result in long-ass series. Now manga has its own problems from a business-perspective, primarily to do with the way labor is treated, but those are far easier to fix than US Comics' issues.
 
neural said:
If you do it once every decade or two, it's gonna be fine because you're dealing with a new generation of readers.

But DC, and to a lesser extent, Marvel has been extremely reboot happy the past few years, it's gotten to the point where I just got done with Comics, and only read comics that are standalone (for the superhero variety, this means stuff like Earth One for example). Both have been crossover happy as well, and it's got to the point where

Manga is far, far better about this, retcons are extremely rare, and the only actual manga reboot that I can think of is the ending of JoJo's Bizarre Adventure part 6. Every series is self-contained, so it's easy to follow with minimal crossovers, even if this can result in long-ass series. Now manga has its own problems from a business-perspective, primarily to do with the way labor is treated, but those are far easier to fix than US Comics' issues.
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To add to what you said, there have been multiple adaptations to the comics in television, animation, and film thus there are generations of fans whose love of Marvel/DC character comes from Superfriends, Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends, and the entirety of the DCAU. Additionally, with the rise of legacy characters it has fragmented the fandom between fans of different incarnations of the character and Green Lantern suffered from this after "Emerald Twilight" turned Hal Jordan into a super villain and put Kyle Rayner in the role. Hoo boy, and then there are the John Stewart fanboys who have to stake their claim.

Case in point, there was this guy I have mentioned before. An obscure journalist/critic from Virginia that I have sparred with on another forum who has a massive hate boner for the DCEU, Geoff Johns, and anything Silver Age. It is clear that he is a fan of the DCAU's Justice League because he never stopped complaining about how boring Hal Jordan/Barry Allen were and how much John Stewart/Wally West were more "fun." It really never really occurred to him that A) the comics and DCAU were different entities, and B) that Hal/Barry had their own fans as well. He would go on about much better things were when John and Kyle were the only GLs with Hal nipping at their heels. When I pressed him on what issues he was talking about, he would refuse to answer the question or make some excuse that he had the issues in a longbox.

FLASH FACT: John Stewart was reduced to a powerless supporting character from "Emerald Twilight" in 1994 to around 2003, when Kyle left for space. Similarly, Hal Jordan was only active as Parallax for a few months until he "died" in Zero Hour, and reappeared in Final Night to die again. If you look at Hal's history from 1994 to 2004, he spent more time as the Spectre than he ever did as Parallax.

Basically, his arguments came down to "muh childhood" and appeals to his own authority as a journalist. The comic book community is infested with fans like who like to act as gatekeepers or taste-makers.
 
Quick question:

How bad are Marvel comics in general right now?
 
Iwasamwillbe said:
Quick question:

How bad are Marvel comics in general right now?
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A lot of their big titles have rebranded as #1's, so there's a lot of boring stuff that's already been established dozens of times already being reestablished once again. A lot of stuff with the Infinity Gems to cash in on the movie. Couple of decent titles and miniseries here or there. I've pretty much dropped all things Marvel, but I'm a sucker for Spider-man, so I guess I'd recommend that?
 
Iwasamwillbe said:
How bad are Marvel comics in general right now?
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Most of it is pretty bad. Venom is apparently pretty good, Daredevil is generally okay, I know a couple people who are really into the current Moon Knight series, the recent Cosmic Ghost Rider miniseries has been so hilariously silly I kind of love it. Everything else is forgettable or bad.
 
[Insert Meme Here] said:
Most of it is pretty bad. Venom is apparently pretty good, Daredevil is generally okay, I know a couple people who are really into the current Moon Knight series, the recent Cosmic Ghost Rider miniseries has been so hilariously silly I kind of love it. Everything else is forgettable or bad.
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Daredevil is OK, it's charmless and bland but it isn't anywhere near as bad as some of marvels worst right about now. It does bring a few new things to the table too, namely a really cool new villian and a new supporting character; blindspot.
Its also one of like two marvel comics to treat Steve rodgers with any respect right now, which deserves some credit.
 
Judge Dredd said:
I assume this has been said earlier in the thread, but how can they seriously complain about "comics literacy" or the "shrinking market" when for the last few years manga has been growing in popularity? It's a medium that you have to read backwards, have complex stories, and you have figure out cultural idiosyncrasies in order to get the most out of them, and yet mainstream comics are acting like 'man in spandex punches criminal' is too hard to grasp?
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But how can Batman have a biological son when I watched a Batman movie and he has no son? Plus that contradicts the cartoon where he's an old man. I can't keep up with this!
 
Ebonic Tutor said:
If I remember right it turns out Terry is basically his kid in Batman Beyond.
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He was but still not Damian Wayne. I'm just mocking the comic literacy thing since while I can understand continuity being a mess at times, people seem to have an issue separating different mediums in their head. It's all just "Batman" instead of comic Batman being a separate thing from any movie or cartoon or mascot on a box of cereal.
 
RockVolnutt said:
He was but still not Damian Wayne. I'm just mocking the comic literacy thing since while I can understand continuity being a mess at times, people seem to have an issue separating different mediums in their head. It's all just "Batman" instead of comic Batman being a separate thing from any movie or cartoon or mascot on a box of cereal.
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FYI, Damian (not me) is in Batman Beyond-verse, he’s the current leader of the leagues of assassins. Not really sure how in continuity they intend to keep this book in but:
9C9695F9-FEF0-4018-B2BF-D7B73F38A1CE.jpeg
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Batman-Beyond-2016/Issue-8?id=112945
 
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