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Yeah, I got why Robinson made the Earth 2 Alan gay in the first place but it should have never been the main trait of the character. I do agree with you that it would have made a lot more sense if they took a more obscure hero to make into the 40's gay character. There are so many minor characters that DC has that could get elevated like James Gunn did for Peacemaker.

Did you guys see that Jermany Adams and Travis Mercer are teasing a team book with Spoiler, the West Twins, Animal Girl, Fair Play and Quiz Kid?

the thing is, the n52 Alan was kinda meant to be its own thing and resolve on its own. Some woke DEI retard decided that version should be merged with the classic one just for brownie points.

The West twins? Sure, they're due to be their own characters. Animal Girl? It's a workable idea and she does adore her dad. Any Bat-family member could use time outside of Gotham. Mister Terrific (Holt) has been steadily gaining a slow push over the years and I'd be down with Quiz Kid and co. being the little smartasses.
 
I’d have Steel and Eradicator become a positive mirror of Lex and Brainiac, with the Kryptonian matrix in his head, I’d have John start acting like Bradley Cooper in “Limitless” the whole “I was blind but now I see” as with Steelworks at the helm, Metropolis becomes the city of tomorrow, raygun gothic with groundbreaking technology commonplace. The comic would be buddycop action with utopian ideals and waking the dangerous path of using Kryptonian science to uplift humanity.

The drawback would be the bond, he’d call Clark “Kal-El” one too many times and would dream of a red star, a doomed planet and the voices of a dead race would be growing ever louder. It’s not intentional on Eradicator’s part but their bond saved John and now it’s adding him to the matrix, like a Crysis nanosuit.

They’d have adventures and the run would end with John snapping out of it, choosing to sever the bond, even though it will cause him to eventually just….. die, once the energies run out.

John chooses to die a man and imparts some wisdom on E, tells him to look out for what they’ve built and to be there for Lana and Natasha.

The last the reader sees of John is him and Lana setting sail, to spend his last days happy, with the woman he loves.

The reader doesn’t need to see that morning where John didn’t wake up, what they do need to see is Eradicator honoring it’s word, watching over Clark and John’s families long after both men are gone and becoming the “spirit” of Metropolis.

Boom, Superfamily is pruned a little more and Steel gets some respect and his own version of All-star, where you work with the cards you’re dealt.
 
Yeah, I got why Robinson made the Earth 2 Alan gay in the first place but it should have never been the main trait of the character.
the thing is, the n52 Alan was kinda meant to be its own thing and resolve on its own. Some woke DEI retard decided that version should be merged with the classic one just for brownie points.
With very rare exceptions*, once a character has a gay alt version, it's a matter of time until the main one is gay too. And once they're gay, that's all they can be.
Also, if a character has ever rejected advances from a gay, it's also a matter of time until they're made gay.

The best you can ever hope for is they go bi instead of gay.

*The only one I can think of is Wolverine, who had a gay version in one Exiles or Exiles-like book. He's too mainstream and popular to fag him directly.
But you know they want to, oh how they want to.
 
I’d have Steel and Eradicator become a positive mirror of Lex and Brainiac, with the Kryptonian matrix in his head, I’d have John start acting like Bradley Cooper in “Limitless” the whole “I was blind but now I see” as with Steelworks at the helm, Metropolis becomes the city of tomorrow, raygun gothic with groundbreaking technology commonplace. The comic would be buddycop action with utopian ideals and waking the dangerous path of using Kryptonian science to uplift humanity.

The drawback would be the bond, he’d call Clark “Kal-El” one too many times and would dream of a red star, a doomed planet and the voices of a dead race would be growing ever louder. It’s not intentional on Eradicator’s part but their bond saved John and now it’s adding him to the matrix, like a Crysis nanosuit.

They’d have adventures and the run would end with John snapping out of it, choosing to sever the bond, even though it will cause him to eventually just….. die, once the energies run out.

John chooses to die a man and imparts some wisdom on E, tells him to look out for what they’ve built and to be there for Lana and Natasha.

The last the reader sees of John is him and Lana setting sail, to spend his last days happy, with the woman he loves.

The reader doesn’t need to see that morning where John didn’t wake up, what they do need to see is Eradicator honoring it’s word, watching over Clark and John’s families long after both men are gone and becoming the “spirit” of Metropolis.

Boom, Superfamily is pruned a little more and Steel gets some respect and his own version of All-star, where you work with the cards you’re dealt.
I'd want Louise Simonson to write that run.

Or even Geoff Johns. Just give me someone that isn't going to be a DEI hire.
With very rare exceptions*, once a character has a gay alt version, it's a matter of time until the main one is gay too. And once they're gay, that's all they can be.
Also, if a character has ever rejected advances from a gay, it's also a matter of time until they're made gay.

The best you can ever hope for is they go bi instead of gay.

*The only one I can think of is Wolverine, who had a gay version in one Exiles or Exiles-like book. He's too mainstream and popular to fag him directly.
But you know they want to, oh how they want to.
I don't think there were a lot of gay alt versions of characters. Like, Wolverine and Hercules were gay version'd in an Exiles book. We had some lesbian Amazons somewhere. And we had Alan Scott from n52 Earth 2.

I sincerely hope we just get Alan's marriage to the original Harlequin back and have it tossed under the bed that "yeah, he could be bisexual, but he's content with his wife that was his Catwoman."

ngl if they really wanted to be spicy, making Billy Batson gay would be pretty out there, considering he's been homeless and on the streets.

Which, uh, would be an implication that being sexually abused leads to higher rates of turning gay, wouldn't it.
 
I don't think there were a lot of gay alt versions of characters
Despite having written that, I'm drawing a blank right now, at least on comics, just Wolverine and Alan Scott. But I meant it also including adaptations, in which case you can add Negasonic Teenage Warhead (not that she was much of a character before her DP1 debut), or Harley Quinn's and Poison Ivy's gradual and steady dykeification.

My point is, someone introduces a gay version of the character in an alternate universe or adaptation, you can start the countdown until the character is gay in main continuity too. They'll say "it's just this version, not the main guy, calm down", knowing full well they'll do it eventually.
 
Despite having written that, I'm drawing a blank right now, at least on comics, just Wolverine and Alan Scott. But I meant it also including adaptations, in which case you can add Negasonic Teenage Warhead (not that she was much of a character before her DP1 debut), or Harley Quinn's and Poison Ivy's gradual and steady dykeification.

My point is, someone introduces a gay version of the character in an alternate universe or adaptation, you can start the countdown until the character is gay in main continuity too. They'll say "it's just this version, not the main guy, calm down", knowing full well they'll do it eventually.
Warhead was known for the ludicrously stupid name.

Harley/Ivy is just a dysfunctional psychotic relationship, but I do see the point.

In that case, I'd love for them to try and turn Static gay. The twitter spergouts between fags and black twitter would be amazing.
 
Warhead was known for the ludicrously stupid name.

Harley/Ivy is just a dysfunctional psychotic relationship, but I do see the point.

In that case, I'd love for them to try and turn Static gay. The twitter spergouts between fags and black twitter would be amazing.
I've never really bought Ivy as really being romantically interested in Harley. I think you could make the Harley/Ivy relationship just as toxic as Harley/Joker was. Ivy needs to be brought back to her femme fatale roots
 
I've never really bought Ivy as really being romantically interested in Harley. I think you could make the Harley/Ivy relationship just as toxic as Harley/Joker was. Ivy needs to be brought back to her femme fatale roots
I still remember Arkham Knight, where Ivy had more romantic chemistry and relevance with Bruce than Catwoman.

They should revisit that, obviously not in the Arkhamverse cause it’s ruined
IMG_9889.jpeg
Worked for Clark with the psycho chick who hated him.
 
I've never really bought Ivy as really being romantically interested in Harley. I think you could make the Harley/Ivy relationship just as toxic as Harley/Joker was. Ivy needs to be brought back to her femme fatale roots
I see it more as

>Harley is mentally unstable and was an abuse victim via Joker
>Ivy's less abusive and showed affection
>you can interpret this as a twisted friendship turned into a lopsided lesbian romance


I still remember Arkham Knight, where Ivy had more romantic chemistry and relevance with Bruce than Catwoman.

They should revisit that, obviously not in the Arkhamverse cause it’s ruined
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Worked for Clark with the psycho chick who hated him.
Arkhamverse is salvable if you just label that Suicide Squad game as "an elseworlds tale"


Livewire's interesting-ish. She could be an interesting on again off again anti-villain or rogue-ish villain.
 
I've never really bought Ivy as really being romantically interested in Harley. I think you could make the Harley/Ivy relationship just as toxic as Harley/Joker was. Ivy needs to be brought back to her femme fatale roots
The reason Harley stuck around for so long is unfortunately the reason no one can do her justice: Everyone loves her. Ever since her first appearance on B:TAS, people wanted more of her. However many fans don't like to see their favorite suffer and so wrote their little stories where she gets away from the Joker, becomes a hero, and becomes a lesbian with a reformed Ivy. Now those people are grown up and want to make those stories canon so their previous Harley Quinn can finally have her happy ending. They also ignore that Harley's established backstory is that she's a ditz who slept her way to an internship at Arkham she was nowhere near prepared for, and that's what made her easy prey for the Joker, because they want her to be perfect and special.

My biggest issue with modern Harley, especially the Birds of Prey movie, is that they're trying to basically make her a female Deadpool to give her some character beyond being Joker's squeeze. But it doesn't work because while she's crazy and wacky, she's not Deadpool wacky. The 2016 series really suffered from this, even giving her an imaginary friend to have weird conversations with. But she doesn't need to be Deadpool. She can still work as the old Harley, you just need to accept who she was, warts and all.
 
Oh damn a comics thread? Anyone read the latest dredd story, it had weird political themes but I think it was good overall
 
The reason Harley stuck around for so long is unfortunately the reason no one can do her justice: Everyone loves her. Ever since her first appearance on B:TAS, people wanted more of her. However many fans don't like to see their favorite suffer and so wrote their little stories where she gets away from the Joker, becomes a hero, and becomes a lesbian with a reformed Ivy. Now those people are grown up and want to make those stories canon so their previous Harley Quinn can finally have her happy ending. They also ignore that Harley's established backstory is that she's a ditz who slept her way to an internship at Arkham she was nowhere near prepared for, and that's what made her easy prey for the Joker, because they want her to be perfect and special.

My biggest issue with modern Harley, especially the Birds of Prey movie, is that they're trying to basically make her a female Deadpool to give her some character beyond being Joker's squeeze. But it doesn't work because while she's crazy and wacky, she's not Deadpool wacky. The 2016 series really suffered from this, even giving her an imaginary friend to have weird conversations with. But she doesn't need to be Deadpool. She can still work as the old Harley, you just need to accept who she was, warts and all.
The biggest problem with writers trying to turn Harley good is that they try to turn her "good" while retaining her wacky, annoying, psychotic Harley Quinn persona.

The entire point is that the Harley Quinn persona came about because of Harleen Quinzel trying to emulate the Joker's philosophy and wanting to be his girlfriend. There's a reason why in the DCAU (where Harley's character was born), Harleen's eventual redemption is her dumping the Harley Quinn persona for good. People need to just accept that Harley Quinn's entire character is being the Joker's abused girlfriend. If you don't like that, too bad, it is what it is.

You can't have it both ways. Additionally modern writing has REALLY cranked up Harley's goofy traits to the point that it's irritating. Arleen Sorkin's Harley was upbeat and maniacally cheerful but not to the point that it's grating.

I also think that DC/WB shilling Harley so much has ironically killed a lot of her popularity in the fandom. Now whenever I see Harley mentioned it seems like most of the reactions are of the "Ugh, seriously? Harley again? Why?" variety.

It also doesn't help that by pushing the dyke angle they also ruined Poison Ivy by association.
 
The reason Harley stuck around for so long is unfortunately the reason no one can do her justice: Everyone loves her. Ever since her first appearance on B:TAS, people wanted more of her. However many fans don't like to see their favorite suffer and so wrote their little stories where she gets away from the Joker, becomes a hero, and becomes a lesbian with a reformed Ivy. Now those people are grown up and want to make those stories canon so their previous Harley Quinn can finally have her happy ending. They also ignore that Harley's established backstory is that she's a ditz who slept her way to an internship at Arkham she was nowhere near prepared for, and that's what made her easy prey for the Joker, because they want her to be perfect and special.

My biggest issue with modern Harley, especially the Birds of Prey movie, is that they're trying to basically make her a female Deadpool to give her some character beyond being Joker's squeeze. But it doesn't work because while she's crazy and wacky, she's not Deadpool wacky. The 2016 series really suffered from this, even giving her an imaginary friend to have weird conversations with. But she doesn't need to be Deadpool. She can still work as the old Harley, you just need to accept who she was, warts and all.
trying to make Harley an anti-hero? Sure, Injustice kinda sorta worked in a "desperate times/measures".

Ignoring her backstory as a ditz that slept her way into an Arkham internship sounds like intentional wishful thinking. I'm fine with Harley being unhinged, but trying to move past Joker. It'd probably be more interesting to write her as trying to get into a relationship with someone else. Like, The Creeper is right there.
The biggest problem with writers trying to turn Harley good is that they try to turn her "good" while retaining her wacky, annoying, psychotic Harley Quinn persona.

The entire point is that the Harley Quinn persona came about because of Harleen Quinzel trying to emulate the Joker's philosophy and wanting to be his girlfriend. There's a reason why in the DCAU (where Harley's character was born), Harleen's eventual redemption is her dumping the Harley Quinn persona for good. People need to just accept that Harley Quinn's entire character is being the Joker's abused girlfriend. If you don't like that, too bad, it is what it is.

You can't have it both ways. Additionally modern writing has REALLY cranked up Harley's goofy traits to the point that it's irritating. Arleen Sorkin's Harley was upbeat and maniacally cheerful but not to the point that it's grating.

I also think that DC/WB shilling Harley so much has ironically killed a lot of her popularity in the fandom. Now whenever I see Harley mentioned it seems like most of the reactions are of the "Ugh, seriously? Harley again? Why?" variety.

It also doesn't help that by pushing the dyke angle they also ruined Poison Ivy by association.
The dyke angle can potentially be reigned in, but we've got the issue that Harley is going to get mary sue'd because some idiot can't handle the fact that she's supposed to be a very mentally messed up character who got in over her head. Sure, you could say that she did get her doctorate and is reasonable intelligent.

Hell, you could say that she wears a more toned down version of the Harley Quinn persona as a shield to protect herself or w/e. I just want them to not have her be annoying AND a mary sue.

If they want her to be more heroic, then that's workable. But have it be gradual. She's a fucking Suicide Squad member for some reason, so have her just get tired of all the justifiable horrors. Have her get a soft spot for the abused in the world. Fucking pre Flashpoint Harley was on the Amazon Island for some reason. Why not give Harley a chance to run a shelter for abused women/children in the Superpowered community? Have her try to be as serious about reforming as possible while relying on help to prevent anything on the tier of Joker from ruining it all. It'd be a worthwhile story to tell and, like it or not, they established the whole "Sanctuary" thing. If the heroes have Sanctuary, I can believe the community has a shelter for abuse victims.
 
Despite having written that, I'm drawing a blank right now, at least on comics, just Wolverine and Alan Scott. But I meant it also including adaptations, in which case you can add Negasonic Teenage Warhead (not that she was much of a character before her DP1 debut), or Harley Quinn's and Poison Ivy's gradual and steady dykeification.

My point is, someone introduces a gay version of the character in an alternate universe or adaptation, you can start the countdown until the character is gay in main continuity too. They'll say "it's just this version, not the main guy, calm down", knowing full well they'll do it eventually.

Same with black, look at Floyd lawton or Catwoman. They got a black actor and for the last ten years people have consistently tried to make them darker skinned in various projects. It's tempting because it's easy.
 
Same with black, look at Floyd lawton or Catwoman. They got a black actor and for the last ten years people have consistently tried to make them darker skinned in various projects. It's tempting because it's easy.
Catwoman's been retconned to be partially hispanic and they keep trying to make her more tan.

Deadshot is. Uh.

Yeah they're doing it because of Will Smith.

It's easy. I just wonder what happens when they make Cyborg light-skinned.
 
So I never really dug hank Henshaw (he was tied to the worst bait and switch in comics history so that and his 2 dimensional character never grabbed me.). Geoff Johns had an interesting angle but...it doesn't work for a Superman villain.

Then I watched Reign of Supermen the movie and holy shit! They fixed him. I mean I LOVED that. It's something his other villains don't have. That version of Hank isn't just an insane murder robot or death fixated nihilist. He FUCKING rocked. and it really worked as a foil in a way lex, brainiac, metallo, and parasite don't.

Catwoman's been retconned to be partially hispanic and they keep trying to make her more tan.

Deadshot is. Uh.

Yeah they're doing it because of Will Smith.

It's easy. I just wonder what happens when they make Cyborg light-skinned.

The meta justification is she was played by both black and white actresses. Which hey, is cool...but...

It only goes one way. Forget Cyborg, when's the last Joker/Harley authentic version of the character? I can't think of one, the most recent may be....Jaquin Phoenix movie and that's iffy. So, we've had a DECADE where, based on ONE CARTOON EPISODE! ONE! Harley Quinn is a dyke. A character whose whole concept is centered around her heteronormative relationship with a man is now forever warped into a feminist, gay, hero because we got one episode, where she spent the entire episode pining over the joker while Ivy tried, and failed, to groom her.

So yeah, Cyborg is safe, but that's why it's such a pain in the ass when they make bobby a faggot or turn 80 year old icon into a black eskimo woman. Because they aren't doing it innocently. THey're creating context to seize a piece of Americana and make it there's. And they won't stop at a pallet swap or gay porn.
 
The meta justification is she was played by both black and white actresses. Which hey, is cool...but...

It only goes one way. Forget Cyborg, when's the last Joker/Harley authentic version of the character? I can't think of one, the most recent may be....Jaquin Phoenix movie and that's iffy. So, we've had a DECADE where, based on ONE CARTOON EPISODE! ONE! Harley Quinn is a dyke. A character whose whole concept is centered around her heteronormative relationship with a man is now forever warped into a feminist, gay, hero because we got one episode, where she spent the entire episode pining over the joker while Ivy tried, and failed, to groom her.

So yeah, Cyborg is safe, but that's why it's such a pain in the ass when they make bobby a faggot or turn 80 year old icon into a black eskimo woman. Because they aren't doing it innocently. THey're creating context to seize a piece of Americana and make it there's. And they won't stop at a pallet swap or gay porn.
wasn't the whole Ivy/Harley friendship supposed to be inspired by Thelma and Louise?
Two things- Zeb Wells got divorsed last year which explains the Paul stuff in ASM

Also that Conan comic Titan is putting out fucking rocks.
explains why it seemed so salty.
Does the timeline fit?
I mean, his Hellions was great, but his Spidey and the Dark Web crossover were fucking shit. Is this to blame for the severe quality drop?
A man can get fucked up by a divorce.
 
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