Sperg about comic books here

[ChampFantana]

I think the early half of Valiant's original run is largely enjoyable.

The Valiant run of Turok is something I revisit every couple of years. For shlocky horseshit, it's really a lot of fun.

 

[Humble Architect]

Been on a Hulk kick for the past year, started with Immortal then went back and read most of the PAD run and then Planet Hulk, Indestructible Hulk and the “Omega Hulk” stuff, I topped it off with rereading Immortal, now getting the references and deeper cuts.

My takeaway is other than those gay mutants being crybabys when compared to Doctor Banner’s torment and persecution, Joe Fixit is the man.

Savage Hulk takes over and it’s a twenty minute rampage followed by a nationwide manhunt, Joe takes over? He fucking steals a year of Bruce’s life, gets his own supporting cast, gets involved with a Vegas callgirl and generally lives out every Las Vegas movie/trope. Motherfucker in a year lived out Casino, Fear and Loathing, Leaving Las Vegas and The Hangover.

To top it off, he ends by being the MVP/main character of the final arc of Immortal, this guy is the best Hulk, followed closely by dad of the year, the Devil Hulk
“Sunshine Joe, what a concept.”

 

[el bandito loco]

Joe Fixit is the man.

Savage Hulk takes over and it’s a twenty minute rampage followed by a nationwide manhunt, Joe takes over? He fucking steals a year of Bruce’s life, gets his own supporting cast, gets involved with a Vegas callgirl and generally lives out every Las Vegas movie/trope. Motherfucker in a year lived out Casino, Fear and Loathing, Leaving Las Vegas and The Hangover.

David wrote a recent Joe Fixit miniseries set during the original run you might want to check out. I haven't read it yet because he previously did a series of throwback miniseries about Maestro explaining how Future Imperfect came to be and they were absolutely fucking terrible and I didn't want to taint my memory of Fixit until someone told me it was worth reading.

on another note does anyone know if IDW TMNT is worth reading? I read Last Ronin and it was fine but that was it's own thing. I know the main series just or is about to end before a relaunch and was wondering if it would be worth my time to go through the decade of it that's out there.

 

[Humble Architect]

David wrote a recent Joe Fixit miniseries set during the original run you might want to check out. I haven't read it yet because he previously did a series of throwback miniseries about Maestro explaining how Future Imperfect came to be and they were absolutely fucking terrible and I didn't want to taint my memory of Fixit until someone told me it was worth reading.

I actually read the Joe mini, it’s like a dlc adventure to when Spidey was in Las Vegas. It’s clearly an excuse for David to write Spider-Man as he should be but him and Joe have a good dynamic.

It’s just a fun addition to the Vegas era, the worst part is Joe offers Peter a night on the town…….. and it fucking ends right there, the only member of Fixit’s cast who shows up is Mike (looking like Mr House) and unfortunately Marlo is nowhere to be seen, it’s a shame cause she’s literally just “other MJ” it could’ve been funny.

Yeah Maestro sucked, I dunno why he thought we needed to see what became of the Pantheon, they were so fucking lame I skipped arcs if it involved them heavily.

 

[el bandito loco]

I actually read the Joe mini, it’s like a dlc adventure to when Spidey was in Las Vegas. It’s clearly an excuse for David to write Spider-Man as he should be but him and Joe have a good dynamic.

It’s just a fun addition to the Vegas era, the worst part is Joe offers Peter a night on the town…….. and it fucking ends right there, the only member of Fixit’s cast who shows up is Mike (looking like Mr House) and unfortunately Marlo is nowhere to be seen, it’s a shame cause she’s literally just “other MJ” it could’ve been funny.

Yeah Maestro sucked, I dunno why he thought we needed to see what became of the Pantheon, they were so fucking lame I skipped arcs if it involved them heavily.

I'll read it then, I love his Spider-Man I didn't realize he was co-starring in that, it'll be nice to see actual Peter Parker again because he's been MIA for 15 years. I imagine him and Fixit will probably have a funny dynamic too bc I assume Spidey is aware Banner is in there somewhere and the Joe Fixit persona would be hilarious to come into contact with if you are just another hero who knows regular ass Hulk & Banner.

Maestro I barely remember now, but I sat down to read the first mini and ended up reading all 3 in one sitting out of anger because it sucked so bad I just kept going. I don't remember exactly what my problems were but I was like dude marvel must really be fucking struggling if they're bringing back former writers to try to get old fans back and THIS is the shit they are getting and publishing. The Pantheon are so fucking boring and gay shitty characters to begin with, let alone having to deal with them in Maestro as plot points. I would have been fine with him just dropping a nuke on them or something and having them killed off screen.

 

[jspit2.0]

If I remember correctly, a lot of the Marvel creatives at the time got really petty and turned the New Universe into a mess. They also nuked Jim Shooter's hometown of Pittsburg in a big New Universe event.

Shame, because he was an effective editor. I dunno why so many creatives were prima donnas.

I think the early half of Valiant's original run is largely enjoyable.

Valiant's problem is Jim had it for a year and a half. Once you get past unity he was forced out because he didn't want to do the things that ultimately ruined Valiant and destroyed it as a company.

Yeah, New Universe was definitely a shit show. It's hard to tell what really happened with that mess, everyone blames everyone else, though I'm sure we'll get someone in here telling us how the story they heard is the true and honest definitive version of what happened. I remember Shooter placing a lot of blame on Tom DeFalco, saying he wasted a ton of time and resources coming up with nothing more than Speedball, who ended up a regular Marvel character anyway.

Starbrand is the only one I remember really stood out to me.

Tom Defalco is one of those frustrating people; FF, Thor, clone crap. Spider-girl only excuses so many sins.

 

[Humble Architect]

I'll read it then, I love his Spider-Man I didn't realize he was co-starring in that, it'll be nice to see actual Peter Parker again because he's been MIA for 15 years. I imagine him and Fixit will probably have a funny dynamic too bc I assume Spidey is aware Banner is in there somewhere and the Joe Fixit persona would be hilarious to come into contact with if you are just another hero who knows regular ass Hulk & Banner.

Maestro I barely remember now, but I sat down to read the first mini and ended up reading all 3 in one sitting out of anger because it sucked so bad I just kept going. I don't remember exactly what my problems were but I was like dude marvel must really be fucking struggling if they're bringing back former writers to try to get old fans back and THIS is the shit they are getting and publishing. The Pantheon are so fucking boring and gay shitty characters to begin with, let alone having to deal with them in Maestro as plot points. I would have been fine with him just dropping a nuke on them or something and having them killed off screen.

Well, my favourite part of David’s run was Joe living it up in Las Vegas, indulging all those repressed vices that Bruce never did. Then Spider-Man of all people is the one to discover that Hulk is not dead and is a fucking mobster who apparently sounds like Ralph Meeker.

“He’s supposed to be green, he’s supposed to be stupid!”

But it is the real Peter btw, confident, cool, genuinely funny and compassionate. He also shows up in the Immortal Hulk: Great Power tie-in, the only thing written by Tom Taylor I ever liked. Peter and Bruce have a good dynamic, Spidey is one of the few non-Hulk adjacent characters who never gives up on Bruce.

The biggest problem with the Maestro series is he doesn’t kill any of the main heroes. Anyone he kills is b-list, another villian or the fucking Pantheon. His crimes against women are quietly ignored (Maestro is a rapist) and he missed the nuclear war by virtue of being in FO4 cryo.

You know what would’ve been a good story? Maestro vs She-Hulk, both amped up with all the radiation. Have her hunt him down and try to kill the tyrant and Jen turning her back on him is what causes him to really crack.

The one thing I did like about the Maestro minis was David incorporating Planet Hulk and Immortal Hulk into Maestro’s backstory and Maestro freaking out over a playback of his mom’s death. Even bad men love their moms.

 

[Clyde Cash's Left Teste]

What's with the dickriding people do for Al Ewing? Its like he is the second coming of Christ the way people act about him and he is just a really ok writer.

 

[Humble Architect]

What's with the dickriding people do for Al Ewing? Its like he is the second coming of Christ the way people act about him and he is just a really ok writer.

The only thing I’ve read by him is Immortal Hulk and while he’s good, he’s still a part of the rot. That fucking Roxxon arc where Xenmu brainwashes everyone on Earth and the only one who resists it is his fucking tranny OC, that was awful, my boy Joe saying an article on “Trans rights” was good, though that’s more Joe getting a kick out of people being pissed off. Also Jackie his black reporter OC was crap, but she gets her comeuppance for chasing a man like Bruce Banner, peak “fuck around and find out” moment.

Really any character he made for Immortal that wasn’t his soft rewrite of Devil Hulk was trash. That and Al turning on Joe Bennett and running him out was stereotypical tribe behaviour, Bennett was a politisperg but he’s also the greatest Hulk artist ever, so nice one Al.

Despite all of this I still love Immortal, it’s one of the best father and son stories Marvel has, it does the “he might be your father, but he ain’t your daddy” thing that’s been done to death but with a Hulk twist.

Fuck Donny Cates for his “Starship Hulk” nonsense, glad he’s done.

 

[el bandito loco]

Fuck Donny Cates for his “Starship Hulk” nonsense, glad he’s done

I talked about this in the hobbies you had ruined by others thread once but I bought Hulk religiously every month from 1st grade until a few years ago. through every up and down and the last 10 years have mainly been awful (totally awesome hulk I'm looking at you) and that shit is what finally broke me and I cancelled it.

also semi-related but why the fuck is Greg Pak's run collected like shit? I know your average fan has read Planet Hulk & that is it but dude, his later shit is collected in trades that only have the Incredible Hulk issues which is unreadable without the Red Hulk & She Hulk, etc tie ins. I wanted to go back through it and it was impossible to read without digging up my singles because the collections are just flat out collected wrong.

you should read Monster by Barry Windsor-Smith. it came out last year and is a graphic novel he worked on off and on for 40 years. it started as a Hulk one shot. he was the one who pitched to marvel the Brian Banner child abuse thing, and then Bill Mantlo ended up incorporating it into the end of his run and the rest is history. anyways Barry Smith was pissed because he was working on this and apparently Marvel gave his pages to people working on Hulk and they did their own thing bringing it in to the story so he made it his own IP and then fucked around working on it for 30 years. I read it when it came out and loved it but it's kinda fascinating to see what in it ended up in the Hulk mythos and how it stands apart as unrelated. reading it made me think Ang Lee must have somehow seen some of it because a lot of it that didn't end up in Marvel comics ended up in the 2003 Hulk movie. (underrated as fuck btw). as it stands its a super good alternate universe hulk story.

 

[Humble Architect]

I talked about this in the hobbies you had ruined by others thread once but I bought Hulk religiously every month from 1st grade until a few years ago. through every up and down and the last 10 years have mainly been awful (totally awesome hulk I'm looking at you) and that shit is what finally broke me and I cancelled it.

also semi-related but why the fuck is Greg Pak's run collected like shit? I know your average fan has read Planet Hulk & that is it but dude, his later shit is collected in trades that only have the Incredible Hulk issues which is unreadable without the Red Hulk & She Hulk, etc tie ins. I wanted to go back through it and it was impossible to read without digging up my singles because the collections are just flat out collected wrong.

you should read Monster by Barry Windsor-Smith. it came out last year and is a graphic novel he worked on off and on for 40 years. it started as a Hulk one shot. he was the one who pitched to marvel the Brian Banner child abuse thing, and then Bill Mantlo ended up incorporating it into the end of his run and the rest is history. anyways Barry Smith was pissed because he was working on this and apparently Marvel gave his pages to people working on Hulk and they did their own thing bringing it in to the story so he made it his own IP and then fucked around working on it for 30 years. I read it when it came out and loved it but it's kinda fascinating to see what in it ended up in the Hulk mythos and how it stands apart as unrelated. reading it made me think Ang Lee must have somehow seen some of it because a lot of it that didn't end up in Marvel comics ended up in the 2003 Hulk movie. (underrated as fuck btw). as it stands its a super good alternate universe hulk story.

I know right? I was reading Incredible Hulks, a comic I started as a child and I read the full thing and there’s nothing for Pak’s stuff. Which I liked the post Planet Hulk era, dad Bruce and retarded wife handler Bruce were fun. I wish Skaar stayed around, I liked the whole “breaking the cycle” thing, Hulk is better than most characters with changes sticking (tweaked yes) and writers……. mostly respecting what came before (Cates deserves that brain damage) but I really would’ve liked if Bruce raised one of his what? Five bastard kids? Then showed up Brian.

I’ll check out Monster, I like the more cerebral stuff for Hulk than the gay power level shit. This poor kid’s psyche fractures and his mind creates a monsterous but kind and protective dad, an older brother who embodies confidence and vice in equal measure and a little brother representing the angry, hurt child that will always be in his mind. That’s good stuff, my ideal ending for Bruce is the finale of Immortal. The father dies and his “boys” step up, Joe becomes the protector, Savage Hulk embodies mercy and compassion and Bruce looks at his reflection and sees his halves in balance. It’s perfect.

Ang Lee Hulk was great, perfect casting all around, really funny how Nick Nolte’s David Banner looked like human Maestro. Almost all around that cast became my default “voices” for their respective characters. Especially Sam Elliot as Thunderbolt.

 

[el bandito loco]

I’ll check out Monster, I like the more cerebral stuff for Hulk than the gay power level shit.

it will be totally up your alley then. it's very different from a hulk thing and you can't really fan headcanon it in because he changed so much in turning it into his own IP over the 30 years he tinkered with it, but it's got enough of the Hulk DNA you can read it and see what it was supposed to be. another thing you should check out is hulk dogs of war. which is Incredible Hulk vol 2 issues 12 to like 30? maybe a bit past that or ends earlier I can't remember. it's directly after John Byrne's horrible run though lol. it's almost like a precursor to what Ewing did in Immortal. it has every Hulk personality doing their thing and Devil Hulk being the big bad. it's not great (or even that good tbh) but it's interesting to see someone try to make all of that work. the video game Incredible Hulk: Ultimate Destruction (maybe my favorite superhero game) is heavily based on that storyline. it directly precedes the Bruce Jones run. which is probably my favorite run on Hulk despite it's problems for nostalgic reasons bc I was in elementary school buying it every month from the grocery store and it is what made me love the character the way the Bixby & Ferrigno TV show did for my dad when he was a kid.

we got robbed because people didn't like Ang Lee's Hulk (they were wrong) because Hulk 2 was supposed to be Joe Fixit and concept art is out there and looks awesome and the script was written but I don't think it has ever been leaked but I desperately wish that had been made.

 

[Humble Architect]

it will be totally up your alley then. it's very different from a hulk thing and you can't really fan headcanon it in because he changed so much in turning it into his own IP over the 30 years he tinkered with it, but it's got enough of the Hulk DNA you can read it and see what it was supposed to be. another thing you should check out is hulk dogs of war. which is Incredible Hulk vol 2 issues 12 to like 30? maybe a bit past that or ends earlier I can't remember. it's directly after John Byrne's horrible run though lol. it's almost like a precursor to what Ewing did in Immortal. it has every Hulk personality doing their thing and Devil Hulk being the big bad. it's not great (or even that good tbh) but it's interesting to see someone try to make all of that work. the video game Incredible Hulk: Ultimate Destruction (maybe my favorite superhero game) is heavily based on that storyline. it directly precedes the Bruce Jones run. which is probably my favorite run on Hulk despite it's problems for nostalgic reasons bc I was in elementary school buying it every month from the grocery store and it is what made me love the character the way the Bixby & Ferrigno TV show did for my dad when he was a kid.

we got robbed because people didn't like Ang Lee's Hulk (they were wrong) because Hulk 2 was supposed to be Joe Fixit and concept art is out there and looks awesome and the script was written but I don't think it has ever been leaked but I desperately wish that had been made.

Heh, my dad was a Ferrigno fan as a kid too.

For stories that aren’t the “normie-tier/everyone read them” ones, I really liked Doc Green, though Bruce getting shot twice in the back of the head and becoming Simple Jack was a bit much. It was a better Maestro origin than the minis. I’ll check out the ones you mentioned, I’ve seen some panels of the “inside Bruce’s mind” story but I didn’t know which issues they were.

I’d kill for a new Hulk game, open-world Las Vegas/Mojave, different personas are different play styles and play as Bruce in hub areas. They don’t make those big beat em ups anymore, I blame God of War turning Kratos into a homo.

Ang Lee really got it, the panels were goofy but I could totally see Bana’s Bruce waking up in Vegas and huffing a bag as he kicks Joe’s girls out of a penthouse he doesn’t recognize, his Bruce was out of his fucking mind.

Greg Pak was good but at the end of the day he made his lame self-insert into a main character and the new Hulk, so fuck him.

 

[el bandito loco]

Ang Lee really got it, the panels were goofy but I could totally see Bana’s Bruce waking up in Vegas and huffing a bag as he kicks Joe’s girls out of a penthouse he doesn’t recognize, his Bruce was out of his fucking mind.

dude I can see it in my mind's eye perfectly. you have Bana waking up next to Marlo. going to the mirror and talking to himself "what the FUCK did you do why am I here who is this" and Joe Fixit looking back at him and being like "I'm what you always wanted to be, bitch. I get to let loose, beat people up, get good pussy, you're a little baby scared of daddy and I basically run this fucking city, you've been sleeping a whole year Bruce. I've been working" it would have been so fucking dope. I could sperg for days about the potential of Hulk 03 being a franchise or series. I think it's the best Hulk adaptation because it's the only movie that gets into the psychological horror aspect of the character. it fundamentally 'got it' in a way nothing since has at all. although I don't know how bc if you listen to the dvd commentary Ang Lee thinks he made a comedy and talks about Nick Nolte's character as the funniest shit he has ever filmed and I have no idea how or why he got that from the performance. it's absurd, I'm not kidding he thinks he made a slapstick comedy and Nolte is Charlie Chaplin.

 

[Humble Architect]

dude I can see it in my mind's eye perfectly. you have Bana waking up next to Marlo. going to the mirror and talking to himself "what the FUCK did you do why am I here who is this" and Joe Fixit looking back at him and being like "I'm what you always wanted to be, bitch. I get to let loose, beat people up, get good pussy, you're a little baby scared of daddy and I basically run this fucking city, you've been sleeping a whole year Bruce. I've been working" it would have been so fucking dope. I could sperg for days about the potential of Hulk 03 being a franchise or series. I think it's the best Hulk adaptation because it's the only movie that gets into the psychological horror aspect of the character. it fundamentally 'got it' in a way nothing since has at all. although I don't know how bc if you listen to the dvd commentary Ang Lee thinks he made a comedy and talks about Nick Nolte's character as the funniest shit he has ever filmed and I have no idea how or why he got that from the performance. it's absurd, I'm not kidding he thinks he made a slapstick comedy and Nolte is Charlie Chaplin.

I could see it being a dark take on a Vegas comedy, where he wakes up, freaks the fuck out. Then like a five-course meal complimented by a drum of liquor and two skanks are sent up to his room, he’s gotta find clues, he learns that Hulk got Vegas-married to a hooker (who isn’t on speaking terms with “Joe” cause he killed a guy in front of her like in the comic) and then the big Hulk reveal happens…….. and he’s smaller, uglier, grey and talks wise. Have the mindscape stuff and lean into the “brother” dynamic and I could’ve seen it being the “superhero Hangover” easily. Get DeNiro or any of the old mob guys to play Mike and make it a throwback.

It’s a shame Hulk is a stillborn franchise, I really think he could’ve been so much more beyond “big green guy” who fucked Black Widow. Especially with the altars and the range between action schlock, goofy comedy and serious drama. Like Joe beating up Santa (Rhino) and threatening to sodomize him with that horn……. right in front of a bunch of children who only see Hulk brutalizing Santa.

That’s pretty funny cause Nick Nolte signed on cause he saw it as a proper Greek tragedy and played it as such. David Banner (other than that scene) is dead-serious the entire movie and honestly I think that depiction helped with making Devil Hulk.

 

[Clyde Cash's Left Teste]

Is Hulk one of the most versatile characters in comics, it seems that he can fit into most settings and it doesn't feel weird.

 

[Midwit]

I dunno why so many creatives were prima donnas.

Many of those types are narcissists by nature, doubly so when they're working in a permissive industry like comics where they can get away with literary masturbation. The Brits are particularly awful for this.

Is Hulk one of the most versatile characters in comics, it seems that he can fit into most settings and it doesn't feel weird.

I think it's because the Hulk isn't a traditional superhero so he isn't constrained by a lot of the factors that make them so limited from a storytelling perspective, he fits just as well in a planetary romance story as he does in a serious character study because the idea of a man who turns into a monster when enraged is something that can be explored and utilised in a massive variety of ways compared to a guy in a spandex suit with a silly name who flies around punching criminals.

 

[el bandito loco]

I think it's because the Hulk isn't a traditional superhero so he isn't constrained by a lot of the factors that make them so limited from a storytelling perspective, he fits just as well in a planetary romance story as he does in a serious character study because the idea of a man who turns into a monster when enraged is something that can be explored and utilised in a massive variety of ways compared to a guy in a spandex suit with a silly name who flies around punching criminals.

this is it. Hulk is versatile like Batman is. it's apples and oranges but they both can be plugged into basically anything and work. with batman it's more like you can have dark frank miller esque shit or goofy adam west shit but with Hulk you can place him almost anywhere and be compelling. because he is just a man who becomes a monster and that works in almost any scenario whether it's him in microworld with jarella, him as a gladiator in planet hulk, him in vegas fucking hookers as fixit, it just works.

 

[Humble Architect]

Is Hulk one of the most versatile characters in comics, it seems that he can fit into most settings and it doesn't feel weird.

Alex Ross said it one of his videos, it’s the lack of costume and the fact that he’s just the evolution of Jekyll and Hyde.

Some writers depict Bruce as the soul of misery, others depict him as Hunter S Thompson but a nuclear physicist, the kicker? Both work, cause he’s batshit insane for one and two, very little baggage, no Kryton, no Gotham, no preset city, no rules for his powers, not even his love interest is preset, him and Betty haven’t been together since the 90s.

Unlike Peter Parker it works cause they’re both trainwrecks and he did kinda ruin her life.


I wasn’t kidding when I said he’s got a bit of gonzo in him, he’s a high-powered mutant, never even considered for mass production, too stubborn to live and too rare to die.

 

[Clyde Cash's Left Teste]

I think a big problem with Spider-Man is that Marvel hasn't had a clue what to do with him for at least 10 years. Its all just short term gimmicks for the most part