Sperg about comic books here

[el bandito loco]

So much fucking wrong with this that it's insulting

you missed the entire point of my post. it was that it was weird there were specific plot elements in common between batman & captain america from 04-2011, and that the series were the polar opposite in approaching said plot points which is exactly what your post described. I also said in the beginning of the post this wasn't specific to each writers specific stories just the characters in general at the time during the time typically defined as their specific eras. the fact under the hood was before morrison is one of the first things I said. you then went on to explain how Morrison's Batman recontextualized Red Hood and Batman himself and then how Brubaker's Cap recontextualized his rogues gallery and Cap himself which is exactly what I said both runs were doing. Just because you like one and not the other doesn't mean my point doesn't stand you just reinforced it. both were long recontextualizations of the characters drawing extensively on particular eras random threads and characters, doing whatever the fuck they wanted with that and doing both extremes of the spectrum with weirdly specific plot elements in common. even the sin/crossbones thing is sort of echoed in red hood/scarlet later on in batman & robin. there's lots of moments between both that from a basic plot perspective are very similar ideas executed differently which was my original point.

 

[jspit2.0]

@MirrorNoir In what world is Grant Morrisons hollow Batgod Miller's DKR?

Frank wrote a very human Batman who wasn't a nice person. He's actually someone you'd be terrified of if you encountered him in a dark alley. He was flawed and frequently got himself beaten before rising back up. Morrison, by contrast, made Batman the very best a human could be, an idealization and later took that to extreme Meta commentary, which ruined the run because it swallowed what story was there.

He did try to approach the character differently, but the problem is, your giving the hacks that ran the Bat Books post No Man's Land into the ground an out. No, it's not Morrison's fault they fucked up.

The hate for Capwolf was 100% Wizard manufactured and mainly so they could suck off Mark Waid and claim his run was way better, especially after Waid got fired from the book the first time around.

People like dumb shit, see Ed Brubaker's Cap run.

The story eventually got reprinted (one of the very few Gruenwald Cap stories to get reprinted until the Epic trades) and is widely loved these days now that Wizard's influence has largely faded and most people seeing the Waid run as the crap shack that it actually was.

I can agree with that. Pretty much all of Waid's Marvel stuff is shit. Don't even think about praising his fucking FF run.

you missed the entire point of my post. it was that it was weird there were specific plot elements in common between batman & captain america from 04-2011, and that the series were the polar opposite in approaching said plot points which is exactly what your post described. I also said in the beginning of the post this wasn't specific to each writers specific stories just the characters in general at the time during the time typically defined as their specific eras. the fact under the hood was before morrison is one of the first things I said. you then went on to explain how Morrison's Batman recontextualized Red Hood and Batman himself and then how Brubaker's Cap recontextualized his rogues gallery and Cap himself which is exactly what I said both runs were doing. Just because you like one and not the other doesn't mean my point doesn't stand you just reinforced it. both were long recontextualizations of the characters drawing extensively on particular eras random threads and characters, doing whatever the fuck they wanted with that and doing both extremes of the spectrum with weirdly specific plot elements in common. even the sin/crossbones thing is sort of echoed in red hood/scarlet later on in batman & robin. there's lots of moments between both that from a basic plot perspective are very similar ideas executed differently which was my original point.

The problem with Morrison's version of the Red Hood was that it clashed with Jason's portrayal in Winnick's work, which had allot of people liking it..

 

[el bandito loco]

The problem with Morrison's version of the Red Hood was that it clashed with Jason's portrayal in Winnick's work, which had allot of people liking it..

I was too young at the time to really remember what anyone was saying online during Under the hood, and like I said I was buying it at a grocery store so I wasn't talking to anyone about it but fellow kids on the school bus I'd let read my issues when they came out. I do remember during RIP through Batman Inc. nerds on the internet complaining Morrison was shitting on Batman and all of his supporting cast the way Brubaker's cap was just discussed. For the record I think Morrison's Batman is better but I do like Brubaker's cap just fine. i haven't read it in a decade so I don't know how I'd feel now but I remember enjoying it well enough. I always thought it was off how it's held as the best but I assumed that's because it's the only Cap most people have read. He's my favorite marvel character outside of the hulk and maybe Adam Warlock so I've read most of the character from his reintroduction in the 60s to when Falcon took over in the 2010s.

I do 100% agree with your point on Miller & Morrison's Batman. They aren't compatible at all. TDKR is a very amped up heavy metal story but at it's core it's about a regular man. Batman reads almost to me like one of those scary bad ass biker guys who are into vigilante justice in real life. Morrison's Batman, at least JLA is the perfect man. he's the worlds greatest and best everything. that's more so a plot device so that it makes sense he's an important asset to the fuckin' superfriends but he's not relatable in the same way as Miller's been there done that, was a regular guy with balls and resources who's brought back into the fold and pushed to the edge. yeah he kicks Superman's ass but it's not because he's the unstoppable man but because he's pissed and he's thought about this for a decade.

 

[Nihil Jung]

I was too young at the time to really remember what anyone was saying online during Under the hood, and like I said I was buying it at a grocery store so I wasn't talking to anyone about it but fellow kids on the school bus I'd let read my issues when they came out. I do remember during RIP through Batman Inc. nerds on the internet complaining Morrison was shitting on Batman and all of his supporting cast the way Brubaker's cap was just discussed. For the record I think Morrison's Batman is better but I do like Brubaker's cap just fine. i haven't read it in a decade so I don't know how I'd feel now but I remember enjoying it well enough. I always thought it was off how it's held as the best but I assumed that's because it's the only Cap most people have read. He's my favorite marvel character outside of the hulk and maybe Adam Warlock so I've read most of the character from his reintroduction in the 60s to when Falcon took over in the 2010s.

I do 100% agree with your point on Miller & Morrison's Batman. They aren't compatible at all. TDKR is a very amped up heavy metal story but at it's core it's about a regular man. Batman reads almost to me like one of those scary bad ass biker guys who are into vigilante justice in real life. Morrison's Batman, at least JLA is the perfect man. he's the worlds greatest and best everything. that's more so a plot device so that it makes sense he's an important asset to the fuckin' superfriends but he's not relatable in the same way as Miller's been there done that, was a regular guy with balls and resources who's brought back into the fold and pushed to the edge. yeah he kicks Superman's ass but it's not because he's the unstoppable man but because he's pissed and he's thought about this for a decade.

That perfect man thing made Morrison's later Batman and Robin run with Dick Grayson under the cowel so interesting. He was a lot more loose.

 

[el bandito loco]

That perfect man thing made Morrison's later Batman and Robin run with Dick Grayson under the cowel so interesting. He was a lot more loose.

Nightwing is my favorite dc character outside of Superman & maybe John Constantine (when he's not getting raped by shitty writers) and that's by far my favorite section of Morrison's Batman. It's just conceptually so good. The execution is great but even if it wasn't, the idea your dad was the single most perfect infallible man alive, and in a world with 20,000 superheroes is arguably the most respected one. and there you are having to fill those shoes. add on to that your little brother has to be your sidekick and has all of the negative traits about your father nobody but your family and closest friends knew even existed in him and you gotta deal with that? It's fucking awesome. as a side note personally I think Scott Snyder's New52 run mostly sucks with some good moments, but his Black Mirror about Grayson as Batman is one of my favorite Batman comics of all time and is a really great supplement to Morrison's run..

 

[Nihil Jung]

Nightwing is my favorite dc character outside of Superman & maybe John Constantine (when he's not getting raped by shitty writers) and that's by far my favorite section of Morrison's Batman. It's just conceptually so good. The execution is great but even if it wasn't, the idea your dad was the single most perfect infallible man alive, and in a world with 20,000 superheroes is arguably the most respected one. and there you are having to fill those shoes. add on to that your little brother has to be your sidekick and has all of the negative traits about your father nobody but your family and closest friends knew even existed in him and you gotta deal with that? It's fucking awesome. as a side note personally I think Scott Snyder's New52 run mostly sucks with some good moments, but his Black Mirror about Grayson as Batman is one of my favorite Batman comics of all time and is a really great supplement to Morrison's run..

Yea, agreed.

I will say that while I am a big fan of so-bad-it's-good movies, the only comic title I've bought monthly (aka full price) for that reason was Tom King's batman. It was truly awful at every turn. Every. Single. One. The worst written any major title has ever been, arguably. His decompressed writing only compounded that. 50 issues leading to a wedding that never happened? Ha! The whole thing was just dogshit through and through.

Tyrion's run was a nice requiem, though.

 

[el bandito loco]

Yea, agreed.

I will say that while I am a big fan of so-bad-it's-good movies, the only comic title I've bought monthly (aka full price) for that reason was Tom King's batman. It was truly awful at every turn. Every. Single. One. The worst written any major title has ever been, arguably. His decompressed writing only compounded that. 50 issues leading to a wedding that never happened? Ha! The whole thing was just dogshit through and through.

Tyrion's run was a nice requiem, though.

I thought Mr Miracle was okay and I legitimately like King's Superman: Up in the Sky but I dislike the majority of his work but his Batman was legitimately like a train wreck you had to look at. I wasn't buying it but I was reading it online and his characterization of Bruce was horrible and I kept looking at it thinking at least the wedding would go some where and when it ended it it made me laugh out loud it was like a long troll where the joke was on me. Speaking of Morrison's meta shit I'm pretty sure tom king is the joker and wrote that faggotry

 

[HodgePodgeRogerDodger]

You know what pisses me off is the power scaling in comics being so inconsistent. Both characters in their own titular series and when they appear as guest characters.

The Hulk as a character just annoys me because sometimes he’s a big green monster who can survive an Operation British without a scratch and other times 9mm will leave indents on him. He’s a monster who eventually could destroy any restraint due to potentially exponential strength (real talk has he ever gone from Rage to apathy/ dejection? Like someone just outclasses him to the point where doubt creeps over rage and he trends downward because he can’t get angry fast enough to overpower someone?).

I like characters who do have a limit, I read Iron Man and Spider-Man comics when I was a kid and those tended to usually have Stark having a time limit for his armor and Spider-Man having to outthink his enemies due to them being leagues stronger than him.

Characters like Storm have a broad and largely undefined power set (weather control) that’ll be stretched until they are causing a supernova because something something solar winds rather than atmospheric manipulation.

DC has the same issue where Batman can compete against a guy who can kill Superman. It’s breaks internal consistency.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

You know what pisses me off is the power scaling in comics being so inconsistent. Both characters in their own titular series and when they appear as guest characters.

The Hulk as a character just annoys me because sometimes he’s a big green monster who can survive an Operation British without a scratch and other times 9mm will leave indents on him. He’s a monster who eventually could destroy any restraint due to potentially exponential strength (real talk has he ever gone from Rage to apathy/ dejection? Like someone just outclasses him to the point where doubt creeps over rage and he trends downward because he can’t get angry fast enough to overpower someone?).

I like characters who do have a limit, I read Iron Man and Spider-Man comics when I was a kid and those tended to usually have Stark having a time limit for his armor and Spider-Man having to outthink his enemies due to them being leagues stronger than him.

Characters like Storm have a broad and largely undefined power set (weather control) that’ll be stretched until they are causing a supernova because something something solar winds rather than atmospheric manipulation.

DC has the same issue where Batman can compete against a guy who can kill Superman. It’s breaks internal consistency.

With Storm, it's always been noted that she's a hell of a glass cannon. Even in the current stuff she's in, she needs time to do her big stuff, leaving her at the mercy of getting bowled over.

Iron Man's always had either a time limit or some other limit to his armor. Spidey's always outnumbered/overpowered way too often, but his more street level enemies often don't realize how much he's physically holding back. Hell, Doc Ock didn't realize how strong he was until he body swapped.

Hulk is weird. Ewing tried to explain it with some weird mystic shit, but I feel like that's not gonna be concretely referenced because it took a fuckton of liberties.

 

[Nick Obre]

Characters like Storm have a broad and largely undefined power set (weather control) that’ll be stretched until they are causing a supernova because something something solar winds rather than atmospheric manipulation.

The story where she does that (and it was opening a wormhole rather than causing a supernova), was an alternate future in which she'd been living off-planet for a hundred years (meaning she probably had some practice applying her powers to space) and was being augmented to her absolute limit by another mutant whose power was to give such boosts to others.
And she died from it.

 

[HodgePodgeRogerDodger]

The story where she does that, was an alternate future in which she'd been living off-planet for a hundred years (meaning she probably had some practice applying her powers to space) and was being augmented to her absolute limit by another mutant whose power was to give such boosts to others.
And she died from it.

Nigga I read a panel where she ripped space time because “Oh this is an extrapolation of Solar Winds (which aren’t atmospheric, it’s literally mass ejected from stars) or Cosmic wind (trace particles being weakly influenced by magnetism). Her power set is something I expect from a comedy series where someone rules lawyers how they have the ability to control satellites and goes “well technically I didn’t say man made or natural satellites” and crashes the moon into the Earth.

Her character is not a glass canon either like @Alexander Thaut says. She’s got plot armor and deranged character fags who will defend her being an awful character because you can’t stop tonguing her ass.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

Nigga I read a panel where she ripped space time because “Oh this is an extrapolation of Solar Winds (which aren’t atmospheric, it’s literally mass ejected from stars) or Cosmic wind (trace particles being weakly influenced by magnetism). Her power set is something I expect from a comedy series where someone rules lawyers how they have the ability to control satellites and goes “well technically I didn’t say man made or natural satellites” and crashes the moon into the Earth.

Her character is not a glass canon either like @Alexander Thaut says. She’s got plot armor and deranged character fags who will defend her being an awful character because you can’t stop tonguing her ass.

Yeah I feel like she was intended to be a glass cannon, but we've kinda hit the point in the 2000s where she can do no wrong.

 

[BallsMcLongDong]

I know it's retarded to be upset at modern comics, but have you seen what they've done to my boy Jason Todd? Straight up has the undershave broccoli hair and dangly cross earring.

 

[HodgePodgeRogerDodger]

Yeah I feel like she was intended to be a glass cannon, but we've kinda hit the point in the 2000s where she can do no wrong.

She’s literally a black Kween. I’d like her character more if they didn’t keep having her win knife fights and was competent to avoid getting in those situations. Her being in the punk outfit was literally because a Jew got horny thinking about a black chick stepping on his balls in biker leather and heels.

She’s the epitome of “sit down be humble” twitter niggers written by two British people who probably would cream themselves if they got knife raped by a Paki.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

She’s literally a black Kween. I’d like her character more if they didn’t keep having her win knife fights and was competent to avoid getting in those situations. Her being in the punk outfit was literally because a Jew got horny thinking about a black chick stepping on his balls in biker leather and heels.

She’s the epitome of “sit down be humble” twitter niggers written by two British people who probably would cream themselves if they got knife raped by a Paki.

I kinda wish they'd portray her flaws more often. Like, all I can recall is that she's claustrophobic and used to come off as naive in the face of the greater world.

Nowadays, they don't do that. But literally every other major X-character's forced to have their flaws shown.

If they wanted to show her as getting megalomaniacal with the justification of a mutant world on Mars, that'd have been fun. But no, we can't have that.

 

[Conspiracy Mawile]

Modern X-Men seems even more convoluted than earlier X-Men.
(Remember when Storm was married to Black Panther?)
Personally, Avengers vs X-Men concluded the last really good Marvel comic era for me (with the exception of Superior Spider-Man which I shamefully enjoyed), everything that came after seemed even more recycled buzzing than before.

 

[Nick Obre]

Avengers vs X-Men concluded the last really good Marvel comic era for me

AVX was fucking shit, man.

I'll continue to go to bat for Hickman's Marvel work in general, but the last truly good, proper good batch of Marvel comics were the various books Remender did (Venom, Uncanny X-Force, etc), before they forced him to do AXIS, which sucked, and somehow managed to piss him off so bad he swore off mainstream comics and went indie exclusively.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

AVX was fucking shit, man.

I'll continue to go to bat for Hickman's Marvel work in general, but the last truly good, proper good batch of Marvel comics were the various books Remender did (Venom, Uncanny X-Force, etc), before they forced him to do AXIS, which sucked, and somehow managed to piss him off so bad he swore off mainstream comics and went indie exclusively.

I miss Remender.


AXIS was a big fumbled bag that maybe could have turned out decently, but we just kinda got jack shit from it. Even a morally inverted Tony Stark, Sabretooth, and Havok weren't really all that interesting in the long run because Secret Wars kinda just reverted everything to the status quo. Like, we had a year or so of Tony being an amoral businessman and then the lead up to secret wars kinda abruptly cut that concept down without getting into any resolution on it.

Sabretooth? His being a more heroic dude lasted a little longer and didn't go much of anywhere because he was slammed into being a psycho when we got ot the Krakoa arc.

Evil Havok? I uh. . . don't remember anything. I think AXIS was just a hamfisted attempt at showing how much disunity there was with the heroes prior to the Secret Wars event, highlighting how fucked up everything became. I get it, division was drawn between the Avengers/X-Men. But could we have them actually carefully develop stuff for a good payoff.

 

[Scarlett Johansson]

Storm is an omega level mutant. Shes definitely up there with Phoenix and Magneto in terms of most powerful mutants. But I agree they need to show her flaws more often.

I want Constantine and Midnighter to team up. But DC is so focused on making established characters fags for no reason other than woke shit (superman, tim drake, etc) and I don't trust Steve Orlando.

Still have no idea what they are doing with Krakoa. Like can they go back to New York?! Lol. I'd like Kwannon to have a bit more prominence. If they were smart they would fridge the future versions of the original X-Men because they're incredibly pointless.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

Storm is an omega level mutant. Shes definitely up there with Phoenix and Magneto in terms of most powerful mutants. But I agree they need to show her flaws more often.

I mean, they've shown every other omega-level's flaws.

I want Constantine and Midnighter to team up. But DC is so focused on making established characters fags for no reason other than woke shit (superman, tim drake, etc) and I don't trust Steve Orlando.

RIP Young Justice when half of the original members are gay.

Still have no idea what they are doing with Krakoa. Like can they go back to New York?! Lol. I'd like Kwannon to have a bit more prominence. If they were smart they would fridge the future versions of the original X-Men because they're incredibly pointless.

I feel like the entire Krakoa deal is going to wind up being shifted to everything involved being in an alternate dimension like Otherworld or The Vault. If not that, then a planet that's not in our solar system. We'll probably see the Arrako mutants on occasion.