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Scorpion as Venom was utterly and completely retarded and then some because we lost an actual fucking decent Spider-Man rogue who had some interesting things about him (Gargon's blood feud with JJJ) in favor of making him a hyper edgelord killer, turning Venom into a third rate rip-off of Carnage in the gore factor.

If Marvel wanted an evil mass murdering symbiote villain for the Thunderbolts, they should have just used Carnage.

Or Eddie and actually explore the fact that, up until that point, Eddie and Norman Osborn had never actually fucking interacted with each other.

Eddie being made to become Venom again could have made for some decent drama. He would have sided with Songbird in the Thunderbolts schism OR you could get some drama out of Norman curing Eddie of his cancer and holding that as leverage against him to try and keep Eddie loyal to his side. Not to mention the element of Eddie being a born again Christian at that point; could have made for some interesting interaction with Speedball/Penance in terms of Eddie offering help to him, along with the Songbird/Eddie dynamic of wanting the Thunderbolts to actually try and do good/gain redemption for their past crimes vs Norman exploiting the fall-out from Civil War to gain power to fuck with the super hero community.

Especially if they handwave the idea that Eddie (via the symbiote) managed to avoid being mindwiped by One More Day and play up the fact that Eddie has to keep his knowledge of Peter=Spider-man a secret from Norman.
 
jspit2.0 said:
It's got tons of potential, but they misused the fuck out of it. Also irritating that McFarlane takes so much credit when he drew it a grand total of four times?
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Todd is hilarious so he gets a pass, if he was a failure then he’d arguably deserve a thread on the site for all his hijinks.

But the fact that he pulled off all his lunacy and came out of it extremely rich makes it void.

He recently shit on Eternals, said female action figures turn kids into serial killers and admitted on livestream that he’s gonna find a workaround to get past DC’s “no guns” rule for their figures/merchandise.
 
A Grey Cat said:
To anyone saying comics didn't used to be political let me point you to amazing Spiderman 91 the issue published immediately after Captain Stacy died. and the character Sam Bullitt

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It's not overtly obvious but given this issue was published in 1970 during the Nixon Administration, but Sam is clearly meant to a stand in for Nixon. Peter even compares him to Hitler a few pages later no joke.
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"comics didn't used to be political" is an oversimplification or misrepresentation of a valid argument. Originally it was "comics should not have poorly hamfisted politics," but as most things on social media it was either misrepresented by idiots and opponents, or boiled down to the most simplistic and inciteful statement possible.
Old comics had a fair amount of hamfisted politics, but it was not as common as it is today. When it was there, most writers tried to not be tied up to contemporary allusions and instead focused on making it more universal. Lastly, some people forgot about past examples, some other ones will attack you if you dare to suggest that their favorite character had bad storylines, and vast majority of people making arguments either way read very little of the old comics.

Kup said:
Making the thing sentient was also retarded, that’s more on the dumb movie though.
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I remember seeing the sentient symbiote angle being played for a very long time. It saw Parker as an enemy for rejecting it, with occasional bouts of chasing after Parker and seeing hims as the ideal host, so it clearly was intelligent enough to have an agenda. Venom symbiote was talking to people for at least two decades. It definitely did by 2003 when the third volume of spectacular Spider-Man rolled out with The Hunger story line. I am pretty sure it did it earlier too, but I do not have older comics on hand to check that. It was definitely implied that it did throughout the 90s, but we usually saw Eddie's half of the conversation.
 
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GoPro said:
I remember seeing the sentient symbiote angle being played for a very long time. It saw Parker as an enemy for rejecting it, with occasional bouts of chasing after Parker and seeing hims as the ideal host, so it clearly was intelligent enough to have an agenda. Venom symbiote was talking to people for at least two decades. It definitely did by 2003 when the third volume of spectacular Spider-Man rolled out with The Hunger story line. I am pretty sure it did it earlier too, but I do not have older comics on hand to check that. It was definitely implied that it did throughout the 90s, but we usually saw Eddie's half of the conversation.
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I always remembered an extreme inconsistency in regards to the creature’s sentience. In fact I remember a bit from Thunderbolts when the team is having their minds tampered with, that Gargan claims to “hear” the monster. It then chews him out and calls him a loser because it’s an illusion.

I think it was Songbird who asked “Can it do that?” and she gets a definitive no. In fact, during that era it’s sentience was dubious.
 
wtfNeedSignUp said:
Fuck every dipshit that goes "Aktually, Batman could have reduced crime more if he gave money to charity instead" with a straight face.
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I mean isn't the point that the system is so corrupt that it doesn't matter how much he gives? Gotham is basically Detroit and I could go in a long diatribe about how Coleman Young imported poor Southern Blacks after he got elected and used gibs as a way to ensure that Detroit would forever be a Black run city, but DC will never address Gotham in a way beyond Gangster's and Crime families being the powers behind everything. Gotham doesn't need money, in most cases isn't the police force understaffed? Gotham is like if Baltimore and Detroit had a baby, a crime ridden cesspool where there are no jobs.

There's the other factor that Batman is crazy. Bruce is broken, but uses the Batman persona to physically attack his enemies. He has a two pronged attack to fix Gotham, one is openly helping people by creating jobs and the other is literally attacking drug dealers who sell to kids. The Super Criminals are just fun antagonists where Batman is deliberately outclassed in some way. Joker literally doesn't give a shit beyond being funny, Riddler is an autist who needs his win, Killer Croc in most cases is a freak of nature who's a glorified henchman, Mr. Freeze is a man as crazy as Bruce and as determined, and the then you have serial killers. I like when the Super Criminals are basically just pest control who interrupt Batman's investigations rather than the only reason why Bruce exists.
 
BeepBoopBeepBoop said:
I mean isn't the point that the system is so corrupt that it doesn't matter how much he gives? Gotham is basically Detroit and I could go in a long diatribe about how Coleman Young imported poor Southern Blacks after he got elected and used gibs as a way to ensure that Detroit would forever be a Black run city, but DC will never address Gotham in a way beyond Gangster's and Crime families being the powers behind everything. Gotham doesn't need money, in most cases isn't the police force understaffed? Gotham is like if Baltimore and Detroit had a baby, a crime ridden cesspool where there are no jobs.

There's the other factor that Batman is crazy. Bruce is broken, but uses the Batman persona to physically attack his enemies. He has a two pronged attack to fix Gotham, one is openly helping people by creating jobs and the other is literally attacking drug dealers who sell to kids. The Super Criminals are just fun antagonists where Batman is deliberately outclassed in some way. Joker literally doesn't give a shit beyond being funny, Riddler is an autist who needs his win, Killer Croc in most cases is a freak of nature who's a glorified henchman, Mr. Freeze is a man as crazy as Bruce and as determined, and the then you have serial killers. I like when the Super Criminals are basically just pest control who interrupt Batman's investigations rather than the only reason why Bruce exists.
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Also Gotham is an eldtrich location, just living in that place will wear on you. It is so monumentally fucked on every field.

Cults, violent crime, insanity, corruption, decadent rich, super criminals, horrific poverty rates, lack of jobs and throw in the outside world completely writing off Gotham and you have a problem that cannot be solved by money.

It’s hell and “fixing” it is a Herculean task, that’s why Bats makes a habit of training so many damn protégés. He will not fix the problem in his lifetime, pulling humanity from the absolute deepest point they can sink to is neither easy nor quick.
 
If it wasn't for Bruce's money and Batman's work, Gotham would have gotten to the point where the government would treat it like Raccoon City - quarantine it and then nuke it to kingdom come.
 
I'm reading Judge Dredd and, at least from the first 5 "volumes" it's a lot more wacky and satirical than what I expected. It might pull a 40k and become grimdark, but so far the Stallone movie is more accurate to the source than the film with Cersei Lannister.
 
Kup said:
Also Gotham is an eldtrich location, just living in that place will wear on you. It is so monumentally fucked on every field.

Cults, violent crime, insanity, corruption, decadent rich, super criminals, horrific poverty rates, lack of jobs and throw in the outside world completely writing off Gotham and you have a problem that cannot be solved by money.

It’s hell and “fixing” it is a Herculean task, that’s why Bats makes a habit of training so many damn protégés. He will not fix the problem in his lifetime, pulling humanity from the absolute deepest point they can sink to is neither easy nor quick.
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I always hated the Eldritch bullshit. Gotham at it's heart was very much Chicago's politics with New York's geography, making it because there's some starspawn making people evil is dumb. It's just people who see civil service as a means to enrich themselves ruining the city with bad policy to the point where organized crime is the only way for most people to survive. Bruce is trying to revive legitimate business in Gotham and cull the influence of organized crime. If you wanted to have a realistic Gotham it'd literally be an all-black city council or majority black city council fucking any of Bruce Wayne's plans while the retired mafia live in the suburbs after turning most of their businesses legit. Bruce would be hated by some people for gentrifying Gotham and pricing out residents. He'd have to tear down old apartments without central heating or hot water only to be caught in a half-decade long legal battle against some protest group that says it's a historic part of Gotham.

Actual honest to god superhumans is just the wrench in his plans, he beats the fuck out of gangsters shaking people down for protection money or selling drugs to school kids. Batman shouldn't be a ninja, but a way for Bruce to get evidence that people are selling out the city. Would people believe Bruce? No, but the Batman is an urban legend. No one thinks he's just a guy.
I like the Gotham Knights segment "Have I Got a Story For You" for that reason.
 
I know we like to talk about superheroes quite a bit, but is there any possibility we could discuss Usagi Yojimbo? I think it'd be a breath of fresh air compared to the usual prattle about DC, Marvel, and so on.
 
Traincake said:
I know we like to talk about superheroes quite a bit, but is there any possibility we could discuss Usagi Yojimbo? I think it'd be a breath of fresh air compared to the usual prattle about DC, Marvel, and so on.
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Why are you asking instead of discussing? If you have something you want to say about it, say it.
 
PrincessHomura said:
Why are you asking instead of discussing? If you have something you want to say about it, say it.
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Well, I personally think it's among the best pieces of long-running comics by a Western cartoonist, and I just wanted to provoke a pleasant discussion. I know, crazy that I'd want to make good conversation on here, but I am one who likes challenges. Anyhow, with Yojimbo, I think for a story about a samurai rabbit that has been going on since 1984, its a damn good comic.


I mean, with art like this, and a main character such as Usagi, no wonder it's kept on for nearly 40 years.
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wtfNeedSignUp said:
Fuck every dipshit that goes "Aktually, Batman could have reduced crime more if he gave money to charity instead" with a straight face.
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The point is that Gotham is so broken that its institutions don't fucking work. You give money to charity it will be stolen. You give it to the police you're arming crooked cops.

That's a big reason why I hate allot of modern Batman comics. Batman would actually reduce crime more in the Nu52 Gotham by giving to charity because it's not Gotham!
 
Traincake said:
Well, I personally think it's among the best pieces of long-running comics by a Western cartoonist, and I just wanted to provoke a pleasant discussion. I know, crazy that I'd want to make good conversation on here, but I am one who likes challenges. Anyhow, with Yojimbo, I think for a story about a samurai rabbit that has been going on since 1984, its a damn good comic.


I mean, with art like this, and a main character such as Usagi, no wonder it's kept on for nearly 40 years.
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I never really got into Usagi. My Uncle brought me a Samurai Manga as a kid and it kind of blew everything out of the water because it actually had boobs in it. It was pretty good from what I remember. Azumi and other Ronin/ Shinobi stuff always interested me more because it ends. As I've gotten older never ending stories don't stick with me as much beyond the stuff that I was way to into as a kid.
 
BeepBoopBeepBoop said:
I never really got into Usagi. My Uncle brought me a Samurai Manga as a kid and it kind of blew everything out of the water because it actually had boobs in it. It was pretty good from what I remember. Azumi and other Ronin/ Shinobi stuff always interested me more because it ends. As I've gotten older never ending stories don't stick with me as much beyond the stuff that I was way to into as a kid.
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I actually feel something like that even recently, I did read a Sergio Toppi story about "samurai" and it felt really... strange, It is almost like it isn't genuine, just a cliche festival and so on. It is quite funny since most quality old west comics are made by french and not americans.

(Go west young man is a great anthology comic about the old west)
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Even more funnier when my favorite old west story is about a chinaman in the old west.
 
Registration said:
I actually feel something like that even recently, I did read a Sergio Toppi story about "samurai" and it felt really... strange, It is almost like it isn't genuine, just a cliche festival and so on. It is quite funny since most quality old west comics are made by french and not americans.

(Go west young man is a great anthology comic about the old west)View attachment 3126616


Even more funnier when my favorite old west story is about a chinaman in the old west.
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French have history in the US. The biggest issue I have with cowboy comics is that you really can't show natives in a poor life, how shitty the native life was for the bulk of them. How a lot of them remembered it with rose tinted glasses (Plentiful buffalo, no war) when they did shit like the tribes in Turkmenistan and Kyrgyzstan (bride kidnapping, literal tribal genocide, actual fucking slavery). I used to read Journal and Diaries of settlers and Natives when I was a kid. Depending on the tribe interactions were different.

Shit like why the Indians using every part of the buffalo when that only started when they realized they couldn't do tribal war (and tribal plundering) anymore. There were a lot of tribes that got fucked because you had bands of young men join gangs to rustle cattle and someone justifying purging a tribe because a native gang kept robbing some guys cattle and killed a guy going to market. Or a lot of the time where you had tribes get fucked out of existence and their phenotype cease to exist after two generations.

They also fucking hated niggers. Buffalo Soldiers were literally commanded by a guy who fought them all his life and knew to actually scout the area before advancing.
 
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