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I always liked how while it wasn’t going to happen, it felt like it would happen, with the gen 1 sidekicks aging up.

Dick wasn’t one but him aging up gave the legacy idea weight.

I always appreciated how, back in the 90s, that whole generation all ended up doing different things. Wally took over the family business, Dick forged his own identity, Garth went off to do weird Atlantean magic stuff, Roy and Donna both went through multiple identities trying to define themselves, and newcomers like Kyle and Connor Hawke and Matrix/Linda were welcomed with varying levels of acceptance (watching Wally and Kyle go from antagonistic to friends was a highlight of the era).
 
DC's Absolute line and Marvel's Ultimate line are looking like liberal jerk off fanfiction as usual (kill off characters people want in exchange for nobody DEI characters only rabid consoomers want, the most recent Ultimates issue was "hurr durr what can a normie do to fight da fascists" LARPing propaganda) but besides that it's like DC doesn't know what they're doing, they're shilling some K.O. event that I can't bring myself to care about. The newest Absolute Evil thing DC put out referenced Epstein and at that point I thought "screw it, I side with the villains, because at least if they win I never have to hear about these 'heroes' who will never really change things, since they always need to fight something." How much money do these companies need to lose before I can never see their comics again?

Edit: Forgot to mention, I've never really been a Hawkeye fan but they killed off Clint in the Ultimate Hawkeye thing that released just to cement how they want to push this "nonbinary" Indian (the American kind)... thing named Charli. Real smooth, Marvel.
 
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I always appreciated how, back in the 90s, that whole generation all ended up doing different things. Wally took over the family business, Dick forged his own identity, Garth went off to do weird Atlantean magic stuff, Roy and Donna both went through multiple identities trying to define themselves, and newcomers like Kyle and Connor Hawke and Matrix/Linda were welcomed with varying levels of acceptance (watching Wally and Kyle go from antagonistic to friends was a highlight of the era).
It's funny to think that there was a time when DC made DEI level replacements for old characters and at the time, no one really gave a shit because the writers tried to make them interesting characters outside of their gender/race/sexuality. And then Marvel did something similar for the Ultimate verse, and again no one gave a shit because it was an alternate universe.

That's what happens when you write characters, not just wank over how progressive you are.
 
It's funny to think that there was a time when DC made DEI level replacements for old characters and at the time, no one really gave a shit because the writers tried to make them interesting characters outside of their gender/race/sexuality.
All of those were white, tho, except for Connor Hawke who was at least half-white. Kyle was made half-hispanic later, but he was mainly Irish-American for most of his history. None of them was gay or anything like that, so there's no DEI to be found.

A good example, though, is Jaime Reyes, at least in his original ongoing. He was very inspired by Mexican culture in fun ways (his design, I recall, was intended to resemble a Lucha mask), but he was also tied to the Blue Beetle mythos in inventive ways, and most important of all, his series showed a lot of respect to the previous Beetles, by including Dan Garrett's descendant and Guy Gardner in the cast (and Peacemaker before they turned him into a big retard, as a homage to Fawcett Comics, where Beetle and Peacemaker originate), and making Jaime learn about his predecessors from them, and take in the hard lessons they gained from their adventures.

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That's the problem with so many of these replacements, they come in dismissing the replaced, because their writers have no respect and they think they're better than the pale male & stale and that they're leaving their mark.
 
DC's Absolute line and Marvel's Ultimate line are looking like liberal jerk off fanfiction as usual (kill off characters people want in exchange for nobody DEI characters only rabid consoomers want, the most recent Ultimates issue was "hurr durr what can a normie do to fight da fascists" LARPing propaganda) but besides that it's like DC doesn't know what they're doing, they're shilling some K.O. event that I can't bring myself to care about. The newest Absolute Evil thing DC put out referenced Epstein and at that point I thought "screw it, I side with the villains, because at least if they win I never have to hear about these 'heroes' who will never really change things, since they always need to fight something." How much money do these companies need to lose before I can never see their comics again?

Edit: Forgot to mention, I've never really been a Hawkeye fan but they killed off Clint in the Ultimate Hawkeye thing that released just to cement how they want to push this "nonbinary" Indian (the American kind)... thing named Charli. Real smooth, Marvel.
I find it interesting how both universes felt the need to make the new universe the direct spawn for evil. Does this say something about the leftists retards writing this slop, that they know they are the product of evil.
 
It's funny to think that there was a time when DC made DEI level replacements for old characters and at the time, no one really gave a shit because the writers tried to make them interesting characters outside of their gender/race/sexuality. And then Marvel did something similar for the Ultimate verse, and again no one gave a shit because it was an alternate universe.

That's what happens when you write characters, not just wank over how progressive you are.
Steel really did it right, he may be his own man after Reign, but unlike Miles, there’s nothing but respect for the original and before they had Bruce be Clark’s best friend again for the 2000s, Steel was the contender for Superman’s best friend.

Also, they were blatantly an homage to white/black friendships from 80s and 90s movies and it was just perfect. I get he was modeled after Shaq but I always heard Carl Weathers reading Steel, the Apollo Creed to Clark’s Rocky.

Now they push the cuck shit (Superman and Lois/main Lana) and they insist on pushing him as an omni-genius rather than an engineer. Plus his niece is insufferable.
 
Edit: Forgot to mention, I've never really been a Hawkeye fan but they killed off Clint in the Ultimate Hawkeye thing that released just to cement how they want to push this "nonbinary" Indian (the American kind)... thing named Charli. Real smooth, Marvel.
And AbsoDC just killed Green Arrow.

It's like poetry, it rhymes
 
I hope this isn't taken as a thread derailment, but what's the general opinion of TMNT, The Eastman and Laird b&w comics?

Somewhere in the mid 80s (1986/87 I believe) someone in my art class told me about this awesome comic book about these mutant ninja turtles. I thought the concept was silly at best, not to mention, I really didn't give a shit about martial arts comics. He eventually showed me an issue, and my memories of the time are that I could see the appeal for an art fag because the art had an amatuerish "hey, I could do that" look to it, but I still thought the concept was dumb. I guess not too long afterwards I read somewhere (maybe a comics journal issue) that E&L had struck a deal to produce toys and a kiddie cartoon series. I believe it was an issue of the CJ as the writer was lamenting that E&L "sold out". The rest is history.

About 2 weeks ago, I thought I'd like to revisit the old B&W comics to reassess. I found some reprint books on IA and read some. The art still doesn't grab me, and I still can't get into ninjas. Reading about the history of those books, it seems that issue 1 was supposed to be something of a Frank Miller/Daredevil parody. The parody angle goes over my head... maybe because I never read Daredevil, lol. The only character I kind of like would be Casey Jones... the rest of it I just can't wrap my head around. How did this shit get so popular?

To me the behind the scenes stuff is far more interesting than the actual comics, lol.
 
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Daredevil Epic Collection - To Dare the Devil

The beginning of Frank Millers run. This volumes collects three or four issues before Miller begins art duties, and continues through the first ten or so of the issues he both wrote and drew. To hear reddit describe this volume, its basically unreadable until Miller takes over. That's bullshit. The first couple of stories feature some amazing art by Frank Robbins and Gene Colan, and guest stars the sensational Black Widow in her best costume.

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Yes, there are some duds in this collection. There's a Steve Ditko fill-in issue about Matt getting amnesia, becoming a boxer and refusing to take a dive for a crooked promoter (has this exact plot been done 1000 times or what?). And a what if? issue from Miller himself featuring Matt becoming an Agent of SHIELD.

Miller's run starts off rough. His art is... serviceable. Its definitely a step down from Colan. It gets better, but it never really gets good. Miller's writing starts out similarly rough. However, it also improves throughout those ten issues. Miller introduces Elektra and the Hand, but more significantly, turns Kingpin into a DD villain. Elektra is kinda boring. When this epic ends, she's still just Miller's OC running around as deus ex machina to save Matt's ass. Meanwhile, Kingpin is a fun puppetmaster villain throughout. Although it is frustrating how often Kingpin has DD at his mercy and is just like, "nah, he's not worth killing." Dude, just fucking kill him. Save yourself the headache.

I know Miller's run eventually becomes a character-defining classic, but it just doesn't feel like its there quite yet.

Score: 8/10

I hope this isn't taken as a thread derailment, but what's the general opinion of TMNT, The Eastman and Laird b&w comics?

Somewhere in the mid 80s (1986/87 I believe) someone in my art class told me about this awesome comic book about these mutant ninja turtles. I thought the concept was silly at best, not to mention, I really didn't give a shit about martial arts comics. He eventually showed me an issue, and my memories of the time are that I could see the appeal for an art fag because the art had an amatuerish "hey, I could do that" look to it, but I still thought the concept was dumb. I guess not too long afterwards I read somewhere (maybe a comics journal issue) that E&L had struck a deal to produce toys and a kiddie cartoon series. I believe it was an issue of the CJ as the writer was lamenting that E&L "sold out". The rest is history.

About 2 weeks ago, I thought I'd like to revisit the old B&W comics to reassess. I found some reprint books on IA and read some. The art still doesn't grab me, and I still can't get into ninjas. Reading about the history of those books, it seems that issue 1 was supposed to be something of a Frank Miller/Daredevil parody. The parody angle goes over my head... maybe because I never read Daredevil, lol. The only character I kind of like would be Casey Jones... the rest of it I just can't wrap my head around. How did this shit get so popular?

To me the behind the scenes stuff is far more interesting than the actual comics, lol.
I've never sat down and actually read the original TMNT stuff. As a kid, I stuck mostly to the Archie adventures series. I would like to read through it sometime, because I hear it gets kinda crazy after the first couple of issues.
 
God yes Natasha's iconic suit. Based on Emma Peel.

Anyway I remember Judomaster became one of the Birds of Prey. Then, I suddenly discover that she is gender swapped in the Peacemaker show and is now a fag played by a fag. So stupid. Led me down the rabbit hole to find that the female Judomaster wasn't the first. First was a male who was killed by Bane....

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Turns out its the same incarnation in Peacemaker.

I'm surprised Judomaster hasn't worked with Katana. To be honest, I used to get them mixed up.
 
The beginning of Frank Millers run. This volumes collects three or four issues before Miller begins art duties, and continues through the first ten or so of the issues he both wrote and drew. To hear reddit describe this volume, its basically unreadable until Miller takes over. That's bullshit. The first couple of stories feature some amazing art by Frank Robbins and Gene Colan, and guest stars the sensational Black Widow in her best costume.
That era and design of Black Widow is great, peak early 80s cold war Soviet spy shit. George Perez did a four-issue arc for Black Widow in Marvel Fanfare, and it's good enough that it makes me wish Perez did a like a 12-issue Black Widow series, it's pretty fun and starts off with a bang of her getting jumped by soldiers while taking a shower, she somehow puts her outfit on while wet, I guess she forgot to dry off while in the middle of blasting fools:
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I bought some early 80s Pre-Crisis DC Comics at the Edmonton Expo a couple weeks ago and it was quite something to see how different the feel and tone was compared to what came after. Among them were a couple early issues of the Fury of Firestorm, and it made me think of the stark difference between Gerry Conway and John Ostrander's approaches were. Conway's issues were more straightforward superheroics that were a fusion of Spider-Man angst with DC's Silver/Bronze Age wackiness. Meanwhile, Ostrander moved towards a more "grounded" approach addressing nuclear disarmament, Cold War politics, and environmentalism by messing up the composition of the character before aping Alan Moore by making Firestorm a fire elemental. Ostrander has his fans, but I feel that his run derailed the character and cast him into obscurity--even Ronnie didn't feel right as a solo Firestorm.

There's just something about the Pre-Crisis DCU that I find charming that was lost Post-Crisis.
 
I know Miller's run eventually becomes a character-defining classic, but it just doesn't feel like its there quite yet.
Not sure why they wouldn't just end the collection before Miller started writing, I always found those first couple of issues a good jumping on point. But yeah, the better stuff will happen soon, just give it some time.

I won't spoil it but the Miller/Janson run on DD is one of those 'classic' runs that really holds up for me. There are a few all time great runs out there I haven't checked out because hype has ruined stuff for me before (Claremont/Byrne X-Men) but Miller did some great stuff back in the 80s. Born Again is my all time favorite DD story. Though my fave Frank Miller story is Batman Year One.
 
I bought some early 80s Pre-Crisis DC Comics at the Edmonton Expo a couple weeks ago and it was quite something to see how different the feel and tone was compared to what came after. Among them were a couple early issues of the Fury of Firestorm, and it made me think of the stark difference between Gerry Conway and John Ostrander's approaches were. Conway's issues were more straightforward superheroics that were a fusion of Spider-Man angst with DC's Silver/Bronze Age wackiness. Meanwhile, Ostrander moved towards a more "grounded" approach addressing nuclear disarmament, Cold War politics, and environmentalism by messing up the composition of the character before aping Alan Moore by making Firestorm a fire elemental. Ostrander has his fans, but I feel that his run derailed the character and cast him into obscurity--even Ronnie didn't feel right as a solo Firestorm.

There's just something about the Pre-Crisis DCU that I find charming that was lost Post-Crisis.
There's a ton of good stuff pre-Crisis. I'm addicted to finding and reading Bronze Age/70s/80s comics in general and especially DC explosion/implosion era stuff. I think in the 70s/80s you got a nice balance of characters still being traditionally heroic while tying in real world issues/more serious and grounded subject matter without going off the deep end into edgy bullshit. I like some Silver Age stuff, but when Batman is going to other planets and finding other Batmen in different colored batsuits it gets too goofy for me.
Firestorm vol 1&2 are a good example of what I like in the Bronze Age, and your Spider-Man comparison is apt because that's literally what DC was trying to do was make their own ASM. (Marvel was trying to create another Spider-Man as well and has been for over 50 years now).
I'm a big Ostrander fan, especially the Suicide Squad stuff. But you know how some artists are better suited to different 'genres' that flex their strengths? Like Bernie Wrightson with horror comics, Ron Lim with cosmic stuff, (and definitely not team books like X-Men) Todd McFarlane with street-level, action heavy stuff, etc. And the rare greats are the ones that can kinda do everything? (eg Jack Kirby, Perez, Byrne) I think writers are the same way. Suicide Squad fit Ostrander's strengths as a writer, Firestorm did not. And I think he really struggled to figure out what to do with the character because I don't think teenage angst/teen heroes/the weirdness of Firestorm being two people in one body fit what he liked to do as a writer.
 
Firestorm vol 1&2 are a good example of what I like in the Bronze Age, and your Spider-Man comparison is apt because that's literally what DC was trying to do was make their own ASM. (Marvel was trying to create another Spider-Man as well and has been for over 50 years now).
I'm a big Ostrander fan, especially the Suicide Squad stuff. But you know how some artists are better suited to different 'genres' that flex their strengths? Like Bernie Wrightson with horror comics, Ron Lim with cosmic stuff, (and definitely not team books like X-Men) Todd McFarlane with street-level, action heavy stuff, etc. And the rare greats are the ones that can kinda do everything? (eg Jack Kirby, Perez, Byrne) I think writers are the same way. Suicide Squad fit Ostrander's strengths as a writer, Firestorm did not. And I think he really struggled to figure out what to do with the character because I don't think teenage angst/teen heroes/the weirdness of Firestorm being two people in one body fit what he liked to do as a writer.
I was doing some research on Justice League of Detroit and came across some interviews with Gerry Conway and Chuck Patton that opened a window on goings-on at DC. There was definitely an editorial shake up at the time and Conway mentioned that the company took editorship of Firestorm away from him then forced him off the book altogether. Stein's cancer diagnosis actually happened on his final issue (#53). If I had to hazard a guess, I think Conway was being muscled out of DC in addition to him feeling burnout and admitted to the latter. His departure also coincided with the Captain Atom reboot that challenged Firestorm as DC's premier nuclear hero. I wonder who would have been a better replacement for Conway--Kurt Busiek comes to mind as he wrote some stories for DC at the time. Sure, he was an unknown at the time, but he proved that he could handle teenage/young adult heroes with Untold Tales of Spider-Man.

Something else I want to note is that Firestorm has something of a respectable rogues gallery compared to other heroes. Killer Frost is the third most prominent cold-based villain after Mr. Freeze and Captain Cold and Typhoon was a credible threat. There were some ridiculous ones like Slipknot and Weasel, but many deserved better than being used as cannon fodder in Suicide Squad.
 
I am a chud, I am not offended by this, I just thought it was funny

I don't usually read comic books but I mindlessly clicked a YouTube video on the Punisher Max Moldovan sex traffickers arc and decided to read the entirety of Punisher Max for no other reason than I felt inspired to do so.

And my main takeaway is that Barracuda is one of the most unintentionally racist depictions of a nigga I have ever seen, violent, hypersexual, amoral murdering rapist with gaudy gold teeth who will do anything for a dollar. It's almost comedic. Funnily enough he's not transphobic

I mean seriously look at this bullshit
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