Sony hate thread

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Jace on ice said:
People rag on Kojima but somehow despite being photorealistic and starring largely A list actors both Death Stranding games kept the budget under 150 mill. Sneederine cost almost three times that and looks and plays like shit.
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But remember, Kojima is the wasteful one.
 
Jace on ice said:
People rag on Kojima but somehow despite being photorealistic and starring largely A list actors both Death Stranding games kept the budget under 150 mill. Sneederine cost almost three times that and looks and plays like shit.
Click to expand...

Incecticyder said:
But remember, Kojima is the wasteful one.
Click to expand...

Death Stranding 1 was successful, which is why DS2 happened. DS2 was not successful, which is why his leash was shorter for Phys Ed.

Insomniac was doing acceptably well with the Marvel franchise. This appears to be their first faceplant. Product financing is virtually never based on some kind of prerelease review. How do you think shitty products ever get released toi begin with? Have none of you ever had jobs? Have any of you ever worked for a Fortune 1000 company with lots of products and had C-Suite executives and/or financing sit in to qualitatively evaluate products before release? Or that the execs who control the purse strings will knowingly let you lose money just because the last guy lost them even more money, so you deserve this? Because I have never once ever seen this happen, but you guys seem to think Sony is some outlier here for not doing that. The kinds of things they look at:

What was your past performance?
What's your current business case?
Are you on time?
Are you staying in your budget?
If you're asking for more money, why?
Is there a business case for more money?
 
The Ugly One said:
Because I have never once ever seen this happen, but you guys seem to think Sony is some outlier here for not doing that. The kinds of things they look at:

What was your past performance?
What's your current business case?
Are you on time?
Are you staying in your budget?
If you're asking for more money, why?
Is there a business case for more money?
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that's cool and all, but I don't think Kojima put a gun to the heads of Sony execs to make them greenlight:

Concord
whatever the fuck FairGame$ was supposed to be (it's rumored to have completely changed the approach, even down to removing the "eat the rich" theme)
The live service God of War they wanted to make
TLOU online, which also got shitcanned, along with other projects
Acquiring Bungie
etc.

So, in a vacuum, sure, kick Kojima out. In practice, lol, Sony execs put themselves in this position, I have no sympathy for them whatsoever.
 
Jace on ice said:
People rag on Kojima but somehow despite being photorealistic and starring largely A list actors both Death Stranding games kept the budget under 150 mill. Sneederine cost almost three times that and looks and plays like shit.
Click to expand...
I personally rag on Kojima not for muh budget, but rather because DS sucked ass and he hasn’t made a game worth playing in over a decade, probably two.

Kojima is just another game designer who likes movies, yet gaming journalists and troon video essayists often inflate his ego & claim he’s a genius. Then there are his fans, who’re even worse than Hideous in terms of how they will swarm to your replies if you suggest he’s probably overrated by industry plants.

I respect real gaming directors who aren’t obsessed with Hollywood and attention. There’s many others who exist out there that have innovated to a far greater degree than Kojimbo.
 
Gay Sex Enjoyer said:
She's just an important character to both sides of the mutant conflict and has a personal connection with a lot of other important characters, I get why she's around at least in concept.

Her being a carpet-muncher though? Afaik it was never important to the character and the only time it was "important" in the comics was when they revealed she transformed into a man and fucked Nightcrawlers mother and is technically his father, which was such a retarded plotpoint that Marvel had to tardwrangle the guy who came up with it for like 20 years before eventually caving and making it canon in the 2000s.

In fact I'm not sure if she was even into clam before Obama got in office.


Why she's in the Wolverine game specifically I have no fucking clue.
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MirrorNoir said:
She's a major X-Men villain and one who's identity is particularly defined on the basis of being gay coded if not bisexual coded until the 00s, when Marvel finally allowed her to be presented as gay. However, media interpretations tend to fall on the straight side of things with her having male love interests and X-Men Evolution being the only show to imply her being gay. Which colors her interpretation to most, especially since the 00s era X-Men movies had her nude.

Though not tied to Wolverine properly, Mystique is at her core a spy/assassination/terrorist mastermind/weapons dealer who fights via hand to hand combat plus knives/guns, making her something of an ideal video game enemy for Wolverine.
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She had kids with Sabertooth before and other men. The entire relationship with Destiny always read more as a toxic relationship with Destiny regretting ever being seduced. It’s also Claremont at his worst because it was my first exposure of “horny man jerks off about lesbians” and it’s just bad. Mytisque works best as just kind of a cunt.

Graydon Creed (Sabertooth and Mytisques non-mutant son) basically has a great narrative concept of “mutants view non-mutant kids as defective”. It also kind of destroys the narrative of mutants replacing humans.

Her being a dyke isn’t really the main idea of her character. She’s more just toxic. She does it with any of her kids. Rogue was basically “runaway child groomed by lesbians” and later understands that she’s being emotionally manipulated after absorbing the memories of someone who grew up on a toxic family. Nightcrawler would also suffer this. Graydon basically went full race war because he was abandoned and Sabertooth is a monster and Mytisque is a manipulator.
 
The Ugly One said:
Death Stranding 1 was successful, which is why DS2 happened. DS2 was not successful, which is why his leash was shorter for Phys Ed.
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DS2 was barely a failure. Failed but not too badly. Sony has FIVE expensive games and two of them are Marathon-level failure at best and Concord-level at worst. The other 3 are Dustborn level of "didn't ask for this".

The Ugly One said:
Insomniac was doing acceptably well with the Marvel franchise. This appears to be their first faceplant. Product financing is virtually never based on some kind of prerelease review. How do you think shitty products ever get released toi begin with? Have none of you ever had jobs? Have any of you ever worked for a Fortune 1000 company with lots of products and had C-Suite executives and/or financing sit in to qualitatively evaluate products before release? Or that the execs who control the purse strings will knowingly let you lose money just because the last guy lost them even more money, so you deserve this? Because I have never once ever seen this happen, but you guys seem to think Sony is some outlier here for not doing that. The kinds of things they look at:

What was your past performance?
What's your current business case?
Are you on time?
Are you staying in your budget?
If you're asking for more money, why?
Is there a business case for more money?
Click to expand...
Spiderman 2 costed good will. Only money matters? Well, good will is an investment. When Aliens: Colonial Marines came out and shat the bed, Gearbox suffered reputational damage that they never recovered from. Alien: Isolation suffered too however, it regained good will and now there is a sequel in the works. Do you think that Colonial Marines will get a sequel? Much less by Gearbox? Spiderman 2 was the same. They were given criticism and ignored it. Now, Wolverine is dealing with the same issues but without a good will to persuade gamers to give it a chance.

DS2 didn't cost near as much good will and the market for MGS-lite exists.

Being on time isn't something that exists in current AAA development and that goes double for Sony so punishing Kojima for it feels arbitrary. None of them at Sony stay on budget either. There isn't a taboo in asking for more money either. Sony threw money at everyone who asked. Yet, despite everyone doing the exact same things, Kojima was the one punished.

"But many others were fired!" And many others weren't. You fired 50% of the incompetents at Bungie. Are the other half competent? No. Did they hire competent devs to replace them? No. Firing bad devs is only half the solution. The other half is hiring good devs.

"But they saw the game he was making and it was THAT BAD!" They greenlit Wolverine, Fairgame$, Concord, Broad of War and everything else. Yet you tell me that the guys that approved those are capable of judging whether a game is good or not. Perhaps his game is bad. But if it was, they wouldn't have canceled it. Remember, these guys canceled that TLOU multiplayer game despite it being basically finished.

All in all, Kojima wasn't a model dev but he was far better than most of what they allowed to remain.

Cyberpunk Meta said:
I personally rag on Kojima not for muh budget, but rather because DS sucked ass and he hasn’t made a game worth playing in over a decade, probably two.

Kojima is just another game designer who likes movies, yet gaming journalists and troon video essayists often inflate his ego & claim he’s a genius. Then there are his fans, who’re even worse than Hideous in terms of how they will swarm to your replies if you suggest he’s probably overrated by industry plants.

I respect real gaming directors who aren’t obsessed with Hollywood and attention. There’s many others who exist out there that have innovated to a far greater degree than Kojimbo.
Click to expand...
Sure but Sony is the same way. They liked overspending, wasting time and making movie games. They are the Kojima of game companies and yet now they want to pretend that the company culture THEY CREATED is punishable by termination? This isn't course correction, this is pushing the blame.
 
Jace on ice said:
You can actually change the fart clouds color in the accessibility settings and make it brown or green if you want for extra lulz.
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my-favorite-superman.png
 
Incecticyder said:
Or maybe your best argument shouldn't be "Sony knows what they are doing when it comes to projects" when they have demonstrated repeatedly that they don't. Just saying.
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Literally nobody is arguing that. The argument is that Sony's decisions are not confusing or bewildering, they're just acting the way most corporations do. Everyone who thinks corporate executives sit in product development and make qualitative judgments simply has no idea how companies work.

Why do shitty movies land in theaters? Didn't the CFO know? The answer is no, CFOs don't oversee production.
Why do retarded, ugly cars hit the lot? Didn't the CFO know? The answer is actually, CFOs don't oversee design.
Why do shitty games get published? Didn't the CFO know? The answer is actually, CFOs don't playtest games or think they know what teen boys want.

Additionally, if you work at a large company, "But Bob's project three years ago lost $500m! You can't cancel my project! It's losing WAY less money!" never ever works, and you guys somehow think that everywhere except Sony, a project lead can get the CFO to fund a project with that argument.
 
Incecticyder said:
Spiderman 2 costed good will. Only money matters? Well, good will is an investment. When Aliens: Colonial Marines came out and shat the bed, Gearbox suffered reputational damage that they never recovered from. Alien: Isolation suffered too however, it regained good will and now there is a sequel in the works. Do you think that Colonial Marines will get a sequel? Much less by Gearbox? Spiderman 2 was the same. They were given criticism and ignored it. Now, Wolverine is dealing with the same issues but without a good will to persuade gamers to give it a chance.
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Power and influence degrades in a half life. Spider Man 2 being kind of bad, is not the end of the world because of all the previous goodwill. Spider Man 2 being kind of bad and Wolverine being shit, now there are consequences. Look how long it took Star Wars to be destroyed. Look how long it took people to get off the Sony pony.

I imagine Insomniac is going to have more oversight from now on. Unfortunately that oversight is also retarded and gay.
 
The Ugly One said:
Literally nobody is arguing that.
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Except those pretending that Kojima deserved to be fired more than the guys behind anything else coming out soon at PS5. Kojima was never all that great but he is better than most of current Sony. If your best arguments are "he deserved to be fired because of such and such", then make sure that the rest of the studios don't still do such and such as well.

Tell me what Kojima did wrong and I will show you which studios do it too at Sony but remained.

Was he fired for spending too much? Haven Studio is about to release Concord-like after 5 years of development and a director left which means that they will spend even more time and money to retool it.

Was he fired for not doing things on time? Horizon Hunters gathering has been rebooted after 4 years of development. Laufey and Until Dawn 2 will be about 6 years in development by the time they release.

I never argued that Kojima is a great dev but come on! It is hypocritical to argue that Sony did the smart thing by firing him. You can believe that he is a hasbeen and still not think it was smart to fire him. Nothing they are about to release is on anyone's "must have" list.
 
OutInTheRain said:
I imagine Insomniac is going to have more oversight from now on. Unfortunately that oversight is also retarded and gay.
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I think Insomniac is done after this. Didn't the leak reveal there's like a hard quota of sales they have to reach with Wolverine if they want to continue having access to Marvel properties? Something like 5 million in a certain timeframe?

I get they just hit 2 million, but I think it's going to sit there for a while. The hate train is going at full force for the game it feels like.

And at this point, I don't think Insomniac can just go back to Ratchet and Clank.
 
OutInTheRain said:
Power and influence degrades in a half life. Spider Man 2 being kind of bad, is not the end of the world because of all the previous goodwill. Spider Man 2 being kind of bad and Wolverine being shit, now there are consequences. Look how long it took Star Wars to be destroyed. Look how long it took people to get off the Sony pony.

I imagine Insomniac is going to have more oversight from now on. Unfortunately that oversight is also retarded and gay.
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True but there should be a review process after each project. Someone to ask: "What the fans liked and what they hated?" Now they have done more things the fans hate and are suffering for it.
 
Problematic User Forever said:
I think Insomniac is done after this. Didn't the leak reveal there's like a hard quota of sales they have to reach with Wolverine if they want to continue having access to Marvel properties? Something like 5 million in a certain timeframe?
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I think they get one more kick at the can with Spiderman. If it's great but sells poorly due to Wolverine but has good word of mouth. They'll stick around. If it's bad and sells poorly they're done. Expect a lot of astroturfing.
Incecticyder said:
True but there should be a review process after each project. Someone to ask: "What the fans liked and what they hated?" Now they have done more things the fans hate and are suffering for it.
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They do, but they are a prisoner of their employees. If they say get rid of Miles Morales or sideline him for Spiderman 3, then their employees will flip shit. If they stop adding gay shit or making Wolverine look like anything other than an FAS weirdo, they they will flip shit. If they make a female character attractive then their employees will flip shit.

This has been a problem with media for at least a decade. They have grown distant from the economic reality of making something people want to play. The funding has been coming from someone else's pocket and that pocket is usually pension funds.
 
OutInTheRain said:
I think they get one more kick at the can with Spiderman. If it's great but sells poorly due to Wolverine but has good word of mouth. They'll stick around. If it's bad and sells poorly they're done. Expect a lot of astroturfing.
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Maybe. I did look into it and I guess the leak stated they need to sell 6 million copies within a year to maintain the X-Men licensing agreement, not Marvel in general.

I wonder if Sony will cave and release it on PC to try and hit that quota? Or are they just going to cut their losses like they are with Kojima?
 
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