Sonic The Hedgehog Games

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

I have decided to embrace the autism and do a deep dive into this series, played the original as a kid but never beat it and didn't play the sequels, up until now Adventure 2 Battle was the only one I beat.

So far I've played and beaten Sonic 1 and 2 and wow, pure 16 bit perfection, I can see now why this series has the following it does.

I always liked the series ok from fond memories of playing the first as a kid, but am I now a bonafide Sonic fan?

I have some questions though, other than the Advance games what games post Adventure 2 are worth playing? (I'm assuming not 06) and lore wise, what's the deal with Sega saying the Genesis Sonic and modern Sonic are two different characters? Have they gone back on that? (unless it's some big plot spoiler)

Sonic Colors DS and Sonic Mania at least. It's pre-Sonic Adventure 2 but easy to miss: Sonic Pocket Adventure.

 

[SteelPlatedHeart]

For a spin-off, I really enjoyed Sonic Battle on the GBA.

 

[Becomemysoulreaver12]

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I dont really recommemd colors, its one of the most bland sonic games imo, the level design is just pretty boring in general

 

[Celebrate Nite]

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I dont really recommemd colors, its one of the most bland sonic games imo, the level design is just pretty boring in general

It also doesn't make sense that the Wisps are in almost every new game since Colors. That gimmic got played out.

 

[Becomemysoulreaver12]

It also doesn't make sense that the Wisps are in almost every new game since Colors. That gimmic got played out.

Tbf, it is actually explained in the discontinued mobile game Sonic Runners how the wisps got to earth.

 

[Sundae]

If you think Sonic 1 and 2 are perfection, just wait until Sonic 3 and Knuckles. Legit, one of the top 5 2D platformers ever made. Play AIR with the Sonic 2 sprite for Sonic cuz the Sonic 3 sprite is DOGSHIT.

No, they haven't. They're both from "different dimensions" according to Forces. As for Sanic games past Adventure 2 worth playing: the Rush trilogy (Rush, Rush Adventure, and Colors DS) Unleashed, and Generations. Maybe the Team Sonic slice of Heroes, if I'm being generous.

Correct me if I', wrong, but wasn't Classic Sonic in Forces originally intended to be a creation of the Phantom Ruby created by Tails (accidently)? I remember someone posted a video about it a while back. The video explained the differences between the English and Japanese script, and talked about dialogue that was supposed to be in the game, and that reveal about Classic Sonic was one of them. It explains why Classic only appears when Tails was attacked by past villains (the video also detailed that one of the staff at Sega of America pointed out Tails cowering like this goes against his established character as someone who has held his own against threats before).

Also explained why Classic just disappeared at the end of the game. In Generations it was explicably stated that Classic was just Sonic from the past brought into the future, which made it jarring when he as changed to being from another dimension entirely in Forces (though as stated above, the "he's a creation of the Phantom Ruby" angle makes more sense in that regard).

EDIT: Found the video (with timestamp):

 

[Shard]

the Sonic 3 sprite is DOGSHIT.

But why? It’s better in every way. Bolder blue, smaller eyes, and he’s shiny.

Tbf, it is actually explained in the discontinued mobile game Sonic Runners how the wisps got to earth.

But still. Maybe have them be on the same planet and never show them, like human characters

 

[Vyse Inglebard]

smaller eyes

That's exactly why it's inferior to me. He's more....muted than he was in 1/2/CD, if that makes sense.

It's pretty telling that Christian Whitehead and his team based Sonic's Mania sprite more on Sonic 1/2/CD than 3.

 

[Two Dollars]

That's exactly why it's inferior to me. He's more....muted than he was in 1/2/CD, if that makes sense.
View attachment 4125174
View attachment 4125225
It's pretty telling that Christian Whitehead and his team based Sonic's Mania sprite more on Sonic 1/2/CD than 3.
View attachment 4125243

I don’t like the Sonic 3 sprite as much, but at the same time it feels weird playing without it. Maybe it’s just nostalgia.

 

[Mr. 0]

Sonic 3 was originally being developed in 3D, so when that fell through the game that came out is what took shape. Sonic's sprite from 3 & Knuckles is based on a 3D mold/model.

 

[Becomemysoulreaver12]

Sonic 3 was originally being developed in 3D, so when that fell through the game that came out is what took shape. Sonic's sprite from 3 & Knuckles is based on a 3D mold/model.

Sonic 3 was originally the most advanced game ever made, it was so advanced that not even the ps5 could run it
But then Yuji Naka stepped in and said "We will have to save this game untilñ the play station 6 comes out"
And everyone in the room looked at him and said "whats a play station?"

 

[Dom Cruise]

Hold that thought until you’ve played Sonic 3; that is 16 bit perfection, and widely considered the best game in the series.
Also, just so you don’t get confused, Sonic 3 & Knuckles is the intended way to play Sonic 3 (they were split into two games; long story). I recommend Sonic 3 AIR; it’s a PC port that adds widescreen, 60 FPS, and a bunch of other stuff.

I’d say the only must-plays are Mania and to a lesser extent Generations. But Unleashed (or Unleashed level mods for Generations), Colors, and the Rush games are also strong choices. If you want something unconventional, try Shadow the Hedgehog through the Reloaded mod that includes a bunch of quality of life improvements and fixes some of the game’s more tedious design choices.

Playing Sonic 3 at the moment and yeah, it's fucking great, however I'm playing them in order since what I bought was the GameCube Mega Collection in the hopes that it's the version of Sonic 3 that has the Michael Jackson music and it does, I was grinning from ear to ear when I heard the carnival night zone music start up (only track I had heard before)

If Sonic 3 & Knuckles repeats some levels that's ok.

As big as a Mario fan as I am one thing I've learned is how much Sonic mogged him in terms of output during the 16 bit era, 4 to 5ish mainline entries (including CD) whereas Mario only had Super Mario World (I consider Yoshi's Island a spinoff), I'm now realizing Super Mario All Stars was a stop gap to compete with how many new games Sonic was putting out.

 

[Mr. Idiot]

Playing Sonic 3 at the moment and yeah, it's fucking great, however I'm playing them in order since what I bought was the GameCube Mega Collection in the hopes that it's the version of Sonic 3 that has the Michael Jackson music and it does, I was grinning from ear to ear when I heard the carnival night zone music start up (only track I had heard before)

If Sonic 3 & Knuckles repeats some levels that's ok.

As big as a Mario fan as I am one thing I've learned is how much Sonic mogged him in terms of output during the 16 bit era, 4 to 5ish mainline entries (including CD) whereas Mario only had Super Mario World (I consider Yoshi's Island a spinoff), I'm now realizing Super Mario All Stars was a stop gap to compete with how many new games Sonic was putting out.

Mega Collection on Gamecube is one of the best compilation outings of Sonic you could have gotten imo so good choice. It was how I first experienced the 16-bit classics back in the early 2000's as well when I got into the franchise after SEGA went 3rd-party.

And S3&K does repeat the stage order and to some degree the same stage route for between Sonic/Tails and Knuckles. The difference lie mainly in how for example Act 2 of Angel Island takes Knuckles through a completely different route that's a bit tougher to navigate because he can't jump to the ledge Sonic/Tails can and thus auto-plows through the walls. Some stages play about the same, a few are completely different route-wise as Knuckles.

And yeah Mario only had World, but Nintendo also pulled off Kart not too long after World which became the most iconic spinoff series for that IP.

 

[Two Dollars]

Playing Sonic 3 at the moment and yeah, it's fucking great, however I'm playing them in order since what I bought was the GameCube Mega Collection in the hopes that it's the version of Sonic 3 that has the Michael Jackson music and it does, I was grinning from ear to ear when I heard the carnival night zone music start up (only track I had heard before)

Aside from the Knuckles, mini-boss, and credits themes, S3&K also has the Jackson music. The only versions that don’t are Origins and a 90s PC port with infamously bad MIDI conversions.

As big as a Mario fan as I am one thing I've learned is how much Sonic mogged him in terms of output during the 16 bit era, 4 to 5ish mainline entries (including CD) whereas Mario only had Super Mario World (I consider Yoshi's Island a spinoff), I'm now realizing Super Mario All Stars was a stop gap to compete with how many new games Sonic was putting out.

I never considered that, but it’s a damn good stopgap. I still think All Stars is the best way to play SMB2/3, if not 1/LL as well I don’t care about the slightly different physics.

 

[Book Thief]

Play AIR with the Sonic 2 sprite for Sonic cuz the Sonic 3 sprite is DOGSHIT.

Gotta hard disagree here. Personally, I think the Sonic 3 style is the best of the 16-bit era. If there's any problem with it, though, it's that in an unmodified game of Sonic 3 (I consider both 3 and & Knuckles to be Sonic 3), it's actually unfinished.

For example, they never changed the "vertical pipe" animation, even though they have a "horizontal pipe" animation in Sonic 3's style, which means that in levels such as Angel Island, Marble Garden, and Carnival Night, Sonic will spontaneously switch to his Sonic 2 design.


Here is the "horizontal pipe" for comparison:


Also, the animation of Sonic using the monkeybars in Flying Battery uses the face from Sonic 2. Also note that both of these animations have red pixels on the underside of the shoe, where-as the Sonic 3 style uses black for the underside of the shoe, again a sign of these animations being unfinished.


Thankfully, mods such as Sonic 3 Complete fixes these minor errors for a more consistent look, among making other fantastic changes such as bug-fixes, making slight alterations to the cutscenes, allowing you to play Flying Battery between Carnival Night and Ice Cap. It even allows you to control Tails with the first controller, even using the Marble Garden Act 2 Boss style of control, instead of the wonky style that the Christian Whitehead remake of Sonic 2 and Sonic Mania went with.

 

[Friendly Primarina]

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I dont really recommemd colors, its one of the most bland sonic games imo, the level design is just pretty boring in general

Don't forget le ebin lolsorandum humor.

 

[Dom Cruise]

Mega Collection on Gamecube is one of the best compilation outings of Sonic you could have gotten imo so good choice. It was how I first experienced the 16-bit classics back in the early 2000's as well when I got into the franchise after SEGA went 3rd-party.

I figured that was the one to get since I could play them on my CRT, so it's closer to the 90s experience.

And S3&K does repeat the stage order and to some degree the same stage route for between Sonic/Tails and Knuckles. The difference lie mainly in how for example Act 2 of Angel Island takes Knuckles through a completely different route that's a bit tougher to navigate because he can't jump to the ledge Sonic/Tails can and thus auto-plows through the walls. Some stages play about the same, a few are completely different route-wise as Knuckles.

Hmm, a little disappointed it's so similar, I was under the impression they were more different, oh well, 3 is fun enough I don't mind playing a remix.

And yeah Mario only had World, but Nintendo also pulled off Kart not too long after World which became the most iconic spinoff series for that IP.

Yeah, Sonic's never been able to quite break into racing as successful as Mario.

Aside from the Knuckles, mini-boss, and credits themes, S3&K also has the Jackson music. The only versions that don’t are Origins and a 90s PC port with infamously bad MIDI conversions.

Yeah, that was one reason why I passed on Origins.

The sad thing is MJ himself probably wouldn't care and let Sega use the music for free, his estate on the other hand...

I never considered that, but it’s a damn good stopgap. I still think All Stars is the best way to play SMB2/3, if not 1/LL as well I don’t care about the slightly different physics.

Super Mario All Stars is fucking great, but imagine if there had been a true Super Mario World 2 and 3.

That's just how Nintendo rolls though, a Super Mario 64 sequel would have been cool as well, also a second Sunshine or even an Odyssey 2, but starting with SNES you get one mainline Mario per console, with only Galaxy 2 as a weird outlier.

 

[Shard]

That's exactly why it's inferior to me. He's more....muted than he was in 1/2/CD, if that makes sense.
View attachment 4125174
View attachment 4125225
It's pretty telling that Christian Whitehead and his team based Sonic's Mania sprite more on Sonic 1/2/CD than 3.
View attachment 4125243

And I feel the opposite because he looks a bit too toony in 1, 2, and CD. He looks slightly more serious in 3&K and I like that.
Also, I’d say Mania copied the old sprites because they’re more iconic.

Sonic 3 was originally being developed in 3D, so when that fell through the game that came out is what took shape. Sonic's sprite from 3 & Knuckles is based on a 3D mold/model.

Do you think that if it were 3D, they would’ve called it Sonic 3D? If so, then what would’ve happened to 3D Blast?

Yeah, Sonic's never been able to quite break into racing as successful as Mario.

Would be nice if they gave Riders another chance.

 

[Vyse Inglebard]

And I feel the opposite because he looks a bit too toony in 1, 2, and CD. He looks slightly more serious in 3&K and I like that.

Eh, I guess I'm going to have to agree to disagree.

 

[Shard]

Eh, I guess I'm going to have to agree to disagree.