Sanctioned Suicide - "Kill yourself" but unironically with sodium nitrite. Higher death count than the Farms. Targeted by parents, legislators, and journalists looking to alter Section 230.

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Surely at some stage there would be an underground market for MAID tourism to canada to replace places like SaSu, right?
Having it all done in comfort by someone medically trained to make sure nothing goes wrong. By someone that is experienced and has already done it hundreds of times already?

I am convinced that all the doctors that specialize in this are all complete pshycos that enjoy it so would it really be that hard to track someone willing down, do all the paperworks and transfers of money? They surely already do this, right?
 
Cuckoman said:
Surely at some stage there would be an underground market for MAID tourism to canada to replace places like SaSu, right?
Having it all done in comfort by someone medically trained to make sure nothing goes wrong. By someone that is experienced and has already done it hundreds of times already?

I am convinced that all the doctors that specialize in this are all complete pshycos that enjoy it so would it really be that hard to track someone willing down, do all the paperworks and transfers of money? They surely already do this, right?
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Yes they do, at least in Europe, and it's largely legal.
 
Bioniclelover said:
P.S. Suicide is actually considered a honorable way of death in many religions and philosophies, so your claim is incorrect. You can check out Sallekhana practice in Jainism.
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I've studied Jainism's suicide practice, and to call it "sanctioned suicide" is extremely misleading. For Jains, this is a sacred practice to undertake for a person who has mentally cut themselves free from all earthly attachments, including the attachment to pain, which is why the Jain practitioner starves themselves to death. If you simply desire liberation from pain, which 99.9%> of suicide victims do, you should never commit suicide according to Jainism. Suicide here is nothing but the final step in a religious journey, and it has nothing to do with suicide as means to escape pain.
 
Hypercop said:
I've studied Jainism's suicide practice, and to call it "sanctioned suicide" is extremely misleading. For Jains, this is a sacred practice to undertake for a person who has mentally cut themselves free from all earthly attachments, including the attachment to pain, which is why the Jain practitioner starves themselves to death. If you simply desire liberation from pain, which 99.9%> of suicide victims do, you should never commit suicide according to Jainism. Suicide here is nothing but the final step in a religious journey, and it has nothing to do with suicide as means to escape pain.
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At no point I used the term "Sanctioned Suicide" in my previous post, I was just pointing that killing one self is not considered "misguided" everywhere. If you want another example there's seppuku. To be frank I don't particularly want to argue about the motivation, just that the act itself is not considered bad everywhere, even if you consider the reasons for it different.
dick brain said:
I don't think you understand how genes work.
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Why? Mental disorders can be inherited and depression has a genetic component to it. Anecdotically, my father's uncle killed himself, my dad is depressive and my brother had a suicide attempt while my mother's side of family is relatively well off in terms of mental health.
 
Bioniclelover said:
To be frank I don't particularly want to argue about the motivation, just that the act itself is not considered bad everywhere, even if you consider the reasons for it different.
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That's splitting hairs. In the context of this thread, and western culture in general, when we say suicide we're talking about a person killing themselves to avoid an unpleasant life. Jains and samurai have nothing to do with us.
 
Cuckoman said:
Surely at some stage there would be an underground market for MAID tourism to canada to replace places like SaSu, right?
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Frankly, I would prefer a site like SaSu exist than MAID in Canada. I do not believe the government should be in the position to coerce and cajole people into committing suicide.
 
LiquidKid said:
After the joe winko thing, I ended up refinding this thread.

I visited this site like 3 ish years ago after I got a morbid curiosity about suicide. Not ever suicidal myself, my life my be fucked but it’s my fucked life and I’m not letting anyone steal that from me, but still curious about the way it worked and the various methods.

I came away with two main thoughts.

1-the human body is surprisingly difficult to kill, and in a way that resilience and the fact that so many attempts fail is oddly comforting.

2-SS’s push of sodium nitrite makes my blood boil. Over and over again those users claim “it’s painless.” “You just call asleep” “you don’t feel anything but nausea and a headache” and it’s all bullshit, it’s a brutal way to kill yourself and you’re literally causing suffocation + incontinence + vomiting + potential seizures and cardiac arrest. But no “you just get loopy and pass out” is the prevailing gospel there. I genuinely can’t fathom how many people suffered horrific deaths because of that misinformation.
But even worse than that, there was the master list of the forum members they confirmed to have died from it, and that’s where I truly got angry. There was one user in particular who did not use it, but had been a personal witness to live streams of more than one person dying from it, and more than one instance of confirmed deaths thanking them. This user quite literally lead people directly to their deaths and acted as a willing witness to at least two. I’m sorry, but there’s a special place in hell for someone like that. That revelation alone made me extremely MATI.
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Where is a source for it being a brutal way to kill yourself? I'm not necessarily disbelieving you or taking SaSu's word on the subject, but I've read A LOT of SN failed attempts (where the person had passed out already and would've died without intervention) and I didn't get the impression it was as horrific as you claim. I mean it is killing yourself so it's not exactly going to be pleasant, obviously. Considering that drowning would always be massively discouraged, I don't think a substance that suffocates you would be put out there as a peaceful method. It stops the blood transporting oxygen so there might be some shortness of breath but I think suffocation is probably pushing it.

AnOminous said:
Personally I'd say self immolation but hey, no disputing taste.
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I remember a couple posters floating that as a possible method, believe it or not. Everyone begged them not to go through with it of course. Hopefully they listened and reconsidered. I don't know why anyone would choose that method.
 
IWantItAll said:
Where is a source for it being a brutal way to kill yourself? I'm not necessarily disbelieving you or taking SaSu's word on the subject, but I've read A LOT of SN failed attempts (where the person had passed out already and would've died without intervention) and I didn't get the impression it was as horrific as you claim. I mean it is killing yourself so it's not exactly going to be pleasant, obviously. Considering that drowning would always be massively discouraged, I don't think a substance that suffocates you would be put out there as a peaceful method. It stops the blood transporting oxygen so there might be some shortness of breath but I think suffocation is probably pushing it.
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It's very painful and anything but pleasant. You are puking your guts up 24/7. Puking up bile. And you genuinely feel like you just want to just fucking die.
 
IWantItAll said:
@BrunoMattei have you tried it? I'd be surprised if anyone who correctly followed the protocol would even be conscious after 30-40 minutes. Not talking about people who just tested a small amount, because that's highly discouraged anyway.
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You forget that it can be reversed if the person is found in time. There’s plenty of reports from survivors about the feelings, and there’s also plenty of videos showing how brutal the death actually is.

But if you don’t believe any of that, look at actual medical journals detailing the symptoms. Nothing about it is a peaceful and easy death
 
@LiquidKid It's not like just going to Dignitas no I think we can agree on that. It's always been second best to Nembutal which is the holy grail. But who can get hold of that these days.

I guess it's about comparing it to what else is available or what a natural death is like. I've seen a few natural deaths (cancer, dementia) and they were way more brutal and drawn out than SN. People have done it in the house with family who didn't even know til they found them later. I guess I'm just somewhere in the middle between "it's totally peaceful" and "it's a horrific agonizing death". Very few of us are getting off this prison planet peacefully. It's still my safety net should I ever need it and it helps to keep going knowing that.
 
IWantItAll said:
@LiquidKid It's not like just going to Dignitas no I think we can agree on that. It's always been second best to Nembutal which is the holy grail. But who can get hold of that these days.
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I trust Dignitas a lot more than the Canadian government and believe it is an ethical organization by and large. I know someone who used them in fact (brutally awful terminal illness).
 
Hypercop said:
Pretty much every religion extols the virtue of suffering, and they state in unison that suicide is misguided. You might not be a spiritual person, but when humanity's collective wisdom dating back thousands of years all universally declares something is bad, there's probably something to that.
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I'd like to see some sort of objective quantification of this claim. I admittedly have no idea what non-Judaic religions aver about suicide, so I'm not sure I can sign on to your assertion that it's "universally" decried.

At risk of straying into fedora territory, even if suicide is universally decried by "pretty much every religion," I'm not sure that is super probative of the value of suicide to an individual. Religious doctrine is usually community-oriented; it promotes uniformity, collectivity, and "suck-it-up" mentality rather than the interests of any individual member of "the flock" (and no, the herd imagery in that common term is not coincidental). My gut instinct says that it comes from a similar paternalist, don't-rock-the-boat cultural undercurrent as things like the Baker Act.

But that's just like, my opinion, man.
Hypercop said:
In the context of this thread, and western culture in general, when we say suicide we're talking about a person killing themselves to avoid an unpleasant life. Jains and samurai have nothing to do with us.
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Just wanted to note that you said above "pretty much every religion" and "humanity's collective wisdom dating back thousands of years all universally declares..." so this about-face is pretty disingenuous.
 
Star Platinum said:
Just wanted to note that you said above "pretty much every religion" and "humanity's collective wisdom dating back thousands of years all universally declares..." so this about-face is pretty disingenuous.
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If we're being pedantic and mincing words, then sure, "suicide" is condoned by some religions, but only within a very narrow and strict religious context. This is not an about-face or being disingenuous, because I'm not referring strictly to the sole act of killing oneself, but rather killing oneself for hedonistic purposes, which is the context for nearly all suicides.

Star Platinum said:
At risk of straying into fedora territory, even if suicide is universally decried by "pretty much every religion," I'm not sure that is super probative of the value of suicide to an individual. Religious doctrine is usually community-oriented; it promotes uniformity, collectivity, and "suck-it-up" mentality rather than the interests of any individual member of "the flock" (and no, the herd imagery in that common term is not coincidental). My gut instinct says that it comes from a similar paternalist, don't-rock-the-boat cultural undercurrent as things like the Baker Act.
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Sort of the universal message of religions across the world is that there's something going on in life which is more important than your moment-to-moment comfort, and both Jain suicide and Japanese suicide do a great job illustrating this because they're both unbelievably painful ways to die; the former involves starving yourself to death, whereas the latter involves disemboweling yourself with a sword. Both acts have a very powerful and deep justification for them.

I understand why you're approaching religion in this way, where you look for a materialist and practical explanation for everything the religion does. It makes obvious sense for things like the Israelites forbidding the consumption of pork and mandating circumcision. But to believe that everything a religion preaches can be traced back to this is deeply misguided. So much of religion is received wisdom, it's revelation, it's what a prophet or mystic hears and relates to everyone else. So perhaps the universal condemnation of suicide is only a sort of social glue to hold together communities. It could just as easily be a universal truth revealed to every society through prophets, cast in different forms so that each society could understand it. It's impossible to fully know. The only way to erase this nuance is if you completely deny religious revelation in general.
 
Hypercop said:
But to believe that everything a religion preaches can be traced back to this is deeply misguided. So much of religion is received wisdom, it's revelation, it's what a prophet or mystic hears and relates to everyone else. So perhaps the universal condemnation of suicide is only a sort of social glue to hold together communities. It could just as easily be a universal truth revealed to every society through prophets, cast in different forms so that each society could understand it. It's impossible to fully know. The only way to erase this nuance is if you completely deny religious revelation in general.
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I agree that it's impossible to fully know which explanation for the condemnation is true. But since my own personal "best guess"/instinct is to deny religious revelation in general, I expect our opinions on the subject are always going to be irreconcilable.
 
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