Rowling Derangement Syndrome - "TERF/Woke Author Bad!!1"

[Pedophobe]

Americans fundamentally don't get the basic British notion that "hero" and "good guy" are not always synonyms. Which is not to say that Harry Potter, the character, is a bad guy, just that he's part of a tradition where you don't have to be John Wayne/Superman/Mickey Mouse to be the focus of a good story.

Snape is probably a great example of this. He ticks all the evil boxes but he still fights for Team Good but only for purely selfish reasons but actually also due to the power of love. But still evil. That's not a story Filmation would tell you.

 

[lamppost]

Americans fundamentally don't get the basic British notion that "hero" and "good guy" are not always synonyms.

There are endless examples of anti-heroes in American media.

 

[FinnSven]

There are endless examples of anti-heroes in American media.

American anti heroes tend to be gritty cowboys with shady pasts, eg. Man with no name, hard boiled detectives with shady pasts, any classic noir protagonist especially Sam Spade, gangsters or murderers with a moral code, Tony Soprano and Dexter.

These all have in common that they are already extraordinary and have skills and powers beyond normal people.

British anti heroes tend to be more ordinary schlubs placed into extraordinary situations. Eg Lister in Red Dwarf, Winston Smith from 1984 and Arthur Dent of the Hitchhiker’s Guide.

Granted there are many examples of both in both nations traditions of literature and narrative, but I would argue that the British do the Everyman anti hero better and more distinctly, and the Americans do the embattled morally grey near superhero better.

One thing that is common to both cultures which makes sense due to the close language and early shared history is that the Robin Hood kind of Anti Hero is also popular.
The idea of a rebel living outside the law, because he stuck it to the man, and now share his spoils with the deserving poor is a popular concept in both countries.

 

[Surfin Terf]

Americans fundamentally don't get the basic British notion that "hero" and "good guy" are not always synonyms.

Didn’t A Clockwork Orange have to remove the last chapter for American audiences because they hated the hero suddenly becoming a good guy?

 

[LimeRikki]

Didn’t A Clockwork Orange have to remove the last chapter for American audiences because they hated the hero suddenly becoming a good guy?

For some printed versions, yes, but nowadays you can find both in the united states and usually there'll be a version of a book that has both endings with an explanation of why the change was made at the time.

 

[David Glowie]

You watch and read stuff at the time of the orignal harry potter books: The Office, Stressed Eric, even other childrens books like Tracey Beaker and Horrid henry, they are meaner than stuff that britain puts out now. So Americans of course dont get it, but even younger brits dont get it

Monkey Dust was a great example of this too.

 

[Slideshow Bill]

Yea i think a lot of modern critique of the Potter books come from Americans, specifically in the transitional period of millenial to zoomer. so people born between 1996-2001 and are also American tend to critisize the books the most in the context of video essays, twitter posts, reevaulations etc. for being meanspririted or otherwise weird because they were born into a world where Harry Potter is sort of an outligher. Harry Potter is influential in YA tropes, but it carries a lot of the edgier influences Rowling had from '90s era mainstays. now this edgier comparatively, but Harry Potter's early books definitely had a Roald Dahl-like style to them with elements of that 90s grossout and pre-Doctor Who british cynicism. Harry Potter would adapt to the times and become, as it became darker, in turn less cynical and more light in its reading. You watch and read stuff at the time of the orignal harry potter books: The Office, Stressed Eric, even other childrens books like Tracey Beaker and Horrid henry, they are meaner than stuff that britain puts out now. So Americans of course dont get it, but even younger brits dont get it

>americans don't understand british culture
>sherlock homes
>"ugh two nerds with gay accents solving mysteries is so boring! where's the talking dog?"
>alice in wonderland, a satire of victorian society
>"hehe dude it's like a bad trip hehehe weed hehe shrooms dude"
>peter pan, a commentary on victorian society
"wheee fairies and magic"
That tends to happen a lot.

American anti heroes tend to be gritty cowboys with shady pasts, eg. Man with no name, hard boiled detectives with shady pasts, any classic noir protagonist especially Sam Spade, gangsters or murderers with a moral code, Tony Soprano and Dexter.

These all have in common that they are already extraordinary and have skills and powers beyond normal people.

British anti heroes tend to be more ordinary schlubs placed into extraordinary situations. Eg Lister in Red Dwarf, Winston Smith from 1984 and Arthur Dent of the Hitchhiker’s Guide.

Granted there are many examples of both in both nations traditions of literature and narrative, but I would argue that the British do the Everyman anti hero better and more distinctly, and the Americans do the embattled morally grey near superhero better.

One thing that is common to both cultures which makes sense due to the close language and early shared history is that the Robin Hood kind of Anti Hero is also popular.
The idea of a rebel living outside the law, because he stuck it to the man, and now share his spoils with the deserving poor is a popular concept in both countries.

I struggle to think of an American anti hero that isn't some kind of vigilante.

 

[Gorillion others]

Didn’t A Clockwork Orange have to remove the last chapter for American audiences because they hated the hero suddenly becoming a good guy?

Because as far as anyone is concerned, it was largely unrealistic for someone that heinous to turn their life around (that many could mistake it as parody). Brits sometimes have an odder sense of morality than people tend to believe.

 

[David Glowie]

Because as far as anyone is concerned, it was largely unrealistic for someone that heinous to turn their life around (that many could mistake it as parody). Brits sometimes have an odder sense of morality than people tend to believe.

Alex didn't exactly turn his life around in that last chapter. He just got bored with ultraviolence and did a lot of thinking about turning his life around. Kids really do engage in stupid shit that they then grow out of as the brain matures.

 

[teriyakiburns]

British anti heroes tend to be more ordinary schlubs placed into extraordinary situations. Eg Lister in Red Dwarf, Winston Smith from 1984 and Arthur Dent of the Hitchhiker’s Guide.

Or connivers with a heart of gold (or at least it looks like gold). Sneaks who do over the tax man. Del Boy, Lovejoy, people like that.

I struggle to think of an American anti hero that isn't some kind of vigilante.

Denny Crane.

Although, he did shoot that guy in the knee...

 

[Gorillion others]

He just got bored with ultraviolence and did a lot of thinking about turning his life around. Kids really do engage in stupid shit that they then grow out of as the brain matures.

Yeah. "Thinking".

 

[RonRiot]

Alex didn't exactly turn his life around in that last chapter. He just got bored with ultraviolence and did a lot of thinking about turning his life around. Kids really do engage in stupid shit that they then grow out of as the brain matures.

Unless their parents chemically neuter them and chop their cocks off.
The whole point of Harry Potter as a character is that everyone thinks he’s The Chosen One, but actually he’s just an average boy with bad luck. Rowling even makes a point of it with the whole prophecy thing and him being chosen almost at random. I thought that part was interesting for a children’s book.

 

[AnOminous]

Alex didn't exactly turn his life around in that last chapter. He just got bored with ultraviolence and did a lot of thinking about turning his life around. Kids really do engage in stupid shit that they then grow out of as the brain matures.

He probably went on to do something even worse than ultraviolence like being an ad exec. Or a journalist.

Del Boy, Lovejoy, people like that.

Lovejoy was awesome. Ian McShane was the main reason I even checked in to watch Deadwood (which is also well worth a watch and he also plays a charming villain in that).

 

[Chandelier]

Fear not, plenty of godawful fanfic writers did.

Speaking of, this was brought up a few times in the fanfiction horrors thread, that being the current crop of HP fans have to contend with writing fic for their favourite medium while disavowing Rowling's 'terrible' views. The most popular HP fic is one called 'All The Young Dudes', a Marauders fic between Remus Lupin and Sirius Black, and the author had to put out a note in her summary saying she doesn't agree with Rowling's 'transphobic' views.

Here is another such example:

I read said smut scene: Harry has to imagine his aunt and uncle while he's raiding Draco's backdoor just so he doesn't ejaculate too quickly. Yeah.

It is funny, though, to see them make notes like this and talk about how disgusting she is, while casually writing fic for a fandom that continues to grow larger and larger every day. HP is one of the largest fandoms to date, up there with Marvel. To say it has huge influence is an understatement. The pairings themselves - Draco/Harry has, as of this writing, 74k fics, Marauders has 53k - are larger than most fanbases. No matter what they do, they keep making JKR richer. Her influence is unmatched, and they hate that.

 

[BetterFuckChuck]

Ok I thought this was a little bit funny, irritated troons are talking about some panels from Alan Moore's more recent League of Extraordinary Gentlemen comics that include a parody of Harry Potter, and act like this is some kind of genius takedown of the Rowling.
View attachment 5050491
View attachment 5050496
View attachment 5050506
'And this was before she went truly crazy with the comments' you know like that utterly mental, truly insane thing where she said that she supports trans people broadly but has some concerns about creeps trying to identify their way into women's spaces, what a crazy woman!

but I just thought this was extra funny when you look at the actual page they are talking about:

View attachment 5050521
Yep, the extent of Alan Moore's genius takedown of Rowling and Harry Potter is 'Lol, wouldn't it be funny if Harry Potter did a school shooting with magic and raped a teacher?', like I won't deny it's funny and that Alan Moore's grouchy old man edgelordism is funny generally, but its barely even The Boys level commentary let alone a meaningful critique of anything.

Aim high Troons!

I decided to look up if anyone brought up that Alan Moore was the original "left wing adjacent harry potter derangement syndrome" person, but it's interesting that the context of that comic is that it's essentially a big screed about how young people in britain are all spoiled brats who do too much drugs, dont have good pop culture, charge they fone, play computer games, be depressed and spoiled and all have asbos. it's a shockingly right wing and frankly ageist comic if you actually read it so i think for a fact that these people have not read it. it might make for interesting discussion to sort of look more in-depth at his views, theyre not just black and white on harry potter or the 21 st century but i've always found it a bit of an eyebrow raiser for an ararchist who dips into drugs to then have a go at the youth for not being the exact kind of bohemian he was

 

[The Grimace]

>alice in wonderland, a satire of victorian society
>"hehe dude it's like a bad trip hehehe weed hehe shrooms dude"

Japanese people seem to "get" Alice in Wonderland better than Americans do. Mind you, it's not always for the best reasons.

 

[⋖ cørdion ⋗]

Americans fundamentally don't get the basic British notion that "hero" and "good guy" are not always synonyms. Which is not to say that Harry Potter, the character, is a bad guy, just that he's part of a tradition where you don't have to be John Wayne/Superman/Mickey Mouse to be the focus of a good story.

Snape is probably a great example of this. He ticks all the evil boxes but he still fights for Team Good but only for purely selfish reasons but actually also due to the power of love. But still evil. That's not a story Filmation would tell you.

Hogwarts students in Hoggy Leggy are fucking cunts. Super obnoxious, charismatic, brash award-chasing cunts. I can totally see why I'd vibe well with slythies. Rightfully elitist and long-term oriented. We literally only saw bad people from Slytherin in the movies. Any other stern dominant black-haired babe would've had readers gooning in their teen jammies. Shit the houses could be used to categorize all kinds of kids at a certain age, which is literally what it did, except most readers are nerds so they'd all want to be in Ravenclaw.

 

[Miriam Margoyles]

Or connivers with a heart of gold (or at least it looks like gold). Sneaks who do over the tax man. Del Boy, Lovejoy, people like that.

Blackadder, in all of his incarnations, is a selfish, abusive, cowardly, snobbish, patronising, swindling absolute bastard.
But he's OUR absolute bastard.

 

[Otis Mallebrok]

The biggest mystery to me is what drew the danger hair crowd to Harry Potter in the first place, because taken at face value, divorced from it's fantasy elements, Harry Potter is quite clearly a story which appeals not to comfy notions of social justice, but instead to middle-class aspiration and wish fulfillment; a fact which becomes more obvious when you look at the kind of school Rowling sent her own children to once she'd made a ton of money.

Children don’t think about all this social stuff. They read the books because they are genuinely good.

As a parent I can tell you, that it is not easy to get a nine year old to read a couple of 500 page books. But Rowling succeeded. She is just better than the rest.

 

[Morethanabitfoolish]

Japanese people seem to "get" Alice in Wonderland better than Americans do. Mind you, it's not always for the best reasons.

If it will make you feel any better at least three of the six other books mentioned got the full blown Japan treatment by Fate/ series alone. I am unwilling to look into if the rest did.