Religion Discussion

[Son of Big Boss]

I recently underwent the process that Christians call "born again", so i became a Christian.
I was baptized as a kid, but i was always more on the agnostic side of things. Like "I don't know and i'll never know if God exists so why bother?".

Well, turns out God wanted to know me, because now i know he exists and i am 99% sure. Cuz i had too much weird stuff happen to me lately to just chalk it up to chance.

However, my religious view is more defined by near-death testimonies and miracles. I find these phenomenon extremely fascinating to study.

 

[Joan Nyan]

I think that Jesus was a great person and that if more people tried to follow his example the world would be a better place. You can definitely look up to Jesus without believing in God or anything like that. So, I would say that I look up to Jesus as an example of a good person in the same way that I would look up to Gandhi or MLK, but otherwise I'm an atheist. I don't really give too much of a shit about other people's religions except Islam for reasons that Null stated earlier. Fuck Islam.

 

[AtroposHeart]

I am a devote Christian. I was an Agnostic/Atheist for several decades which didn't help that I battled severe (And sometimes still do) depression during that time.

I tried Buddhism because I felt that would be the best for trying to heal stuff with depression because it was letting go of attachments, but the thing is I found myself not being able to do that and wondering if I wasn't good enough. I looked into other faiths and tried them, but I feel short.

But now I view my birth faith (Christianity) in a whole new light. Christianity is different from any other religion because you are not saved by what you do or trying to be as perfect as possible.

In Christianity redemption and salvation is a gift. The price has already been paid for my sin. I can except the fact I will never be perfect and miss up. I just need up the word of God the best I can. But no matter what I do or how many times I mess up I will not lose my salvation because I had a God love me enough to die for me.

I once shared a Pagan thing that read "Your God was nailed to a cross and mine carries a hammer, any questions?"

Well, I do now. Did your God love you enough to be born to a peasant mother, be the creator of the universe, but born in a barn. Hang up with the lowest members of society from thieves to prostitutes and show you the hypocrisy in your leaders? Was your God willing to be spit on and tortured to death?

I have studied numerous religions. And I can't think of a God that went that far and showed that much love for his followers.

In Islam the angels count your bad and good deeds which is impossible because you are going to mess up and be paranoid about what you have done.. In Buddhism you have to force your mind to get ride of all attachments and desires which no human can do.

I am trying to explain why I became a Christian again. I am not trying to show my beliefs down your throat. But I fallen many times and I don't think I deserve the grace that God has offered me, but he paid it 2,000 years ago.

 

[Cosmos]

@AtroposHeart That actually made me tear up a bit. Like I said in my own post, I'm sort of bit of a lapsed Catholic now (I still fully believe in my faith, I just don't go to Mass very often). But reading things like this and being reminded of what I believe in is always such a great experience.

I don't want to force my religion down anyone's throat, either, but I just think that Christianity is fundamentally a beautiful, powerful thing. As humans, we're naturally fickle and prone to be drawn to evil if we're not careful (because let's be honest, oftentimes doing the wrong thing is easier than doing the right thing). That doesn't make us horrible, it's just who we are. We're imperfect and fallible. But still God sent his only son, in the body of one of us humans, to take on the burden of our sins through his own sacrifice. And even after all that, even when we stray, God is always willing to welcome us back with loving arms. That's what the entire parable of the Prodigal Son is about; God is essentially a loving father who will always love and welcome his children home, no matter what they've done.

That's why I absolutely can't stand "Christians" who assert that making one tiny mistake will make God hate you and damn you to hell for eternity. What Jesus taught is that God has infinite love and mercy for every single person; even a serial killer can go back to God if they've truly repented. Also, Catholicism believes that, since God exists outside of time and space, people can repent even after they die through God's divine intervention. In one of my theology classes we actually debated over whether Hell can actually be empty because of this. Also, that's why Catholics are heavily discouraged from stating that someone will go to hell for something, because it's very arrogant to assume that we know better than God (the jury's still out on people like Hitler and Stalin, though. You can probably say that they're in Hell for obvious reasons).

 

[Eldritch]

In Buddhism you have to force your mind to get ride of all attachments and desires which no human can do.

 

[AtroposHeart]

@AtroposHeart That actually made me tear up a bit. Like I said in my own post, I'm sort of bit of a lapsed Catholic now (I still fully believe in my faith, I just don't go to Mass very often). But reading things like this and being reminded of what I believe in is always such a great experience.

I don't want to force my religion down anyone's throat, either, but I just think that Christianity is fundamentally a beautiful, powerful thing. As humans, we're naturally fickle and prone to be drawn to evil if we're not careful (because let's be honest, oftentimes doing the wrong thing is easier than doing the right thing). That doesn't make us horrible, it's just who we are. We're imperfect and fallible. But still God sent his only son, in the body of one of us humans, to take on the burden of our sins through his own sacrifice. And even after all that, even when we stray, God is always willing to welcome us back with loving arms. That's what the entire parable of the Prodigal Son is about; God is essentially a loving father who will always love and welcome his children home, no matter what they've done.

That's why I absolutely can't stand "Christians" who assert that making one tiny mistake will make God hate you and damn you to hell for eternity. What Jesus taught is that God has infinite love and mercy for every single person; even a serial killer can go back to God if they've truly repented. Also, Catholicism believes that, since God exists outside of time and space, people can repent even after they die through God's divine intervention. In one of my theology classes we actually debated over whether Hell can actually be empty because of this. Also, that's why Catholics are heavily discouraged from stating that someone will go to hell for something, because it's very arrogant to assume that we know better than God (the jury's still out on people like Hitler and Stalin, though. You can probably say that they're in Hell for obvious reasons).

Thanks for that. After all the bad ratings I got for posting that...you admitting it made you tear up was worth it (By the way we are both Moonies! YAY!)

My view of hell isn't brimestone and fire. I think that is more of a cultural thing. I think Hell might is either Separation from God or just simply death, you just end. Pretty much what the Atheist believes happens to you when you die. The Bible puts more emphasis on death than it does Hell fire which is why I believe that.

 

[Cosmos]

Thanks for that. After all the bad ratings I got for posting that...you admitting it made you tear up was worth it (By the way we are both Moonies! YAY!)

My view of hell isn't brimestone and fire. I think that is more of a cultural thing. I think Hell might is either Separation from God or just simply death, you just end. Pretty much what the Atheist believes happens to you when you die. The Bible puts more emphasis on death than it does Hell fire which is why I believe that.

Aww, I'm glad! And yeah, I love your avatar!! V-babe is my favorite, too; this is actually the one place where I don't use her as an avatar, haha. Everywhere else it's all Venus, all the time

I don't think fire and brimstone are even mentioned in the Bible. What I was taught in my theology classes is that Hell is eternal separation from God and is a path one chooses, not one one is damned to. I also sort of like the idea that Hell is repetition; you're stuck in an eternal loop, repeating the worst experiences of your life over and over. Or maybe even just repeating the events that led up to your death. There's a neat Stephen King story about that concept called "That Feeling, You Can Only Say What it is in French" (which refers to deja vu, btw).

 

[AtroposHeart]

Aww, I'm glad! And yeah, I love your avatar!! V-babe is my favorite, too; this is actually the one place where I don't use her as an avatar, haha. Everywhere else it's all Venus, all the time

I don't think fire and brimstone are even mentioned in the Bible. What I was taught in my theology classes is that Hell is eternal separation from God and is a path one chooses, not one one is damned to. I also sort of like the idea that Hell is repetition; you're stuck in an eternal loop, repeating the worst experiences of your life over and over. Or maybe even just repeating the events that led up to your death. There's a neat Stephen King story about that concept called "That Feeling, You Can Only Say What it is in French" (which refers to deja vu, btw).

Personally, I don't really like to focus on the aspect of Hell much. I really think it is more separation from God than endless torment, like you said. I don't really view Hell as a place of endless torture more sadness and melancholy, but of course I don't know. I think it is more of the pain of being away from God's love than anything.

Thanks for my Venus compliment. I didn't really care for her as a Girl, but now that I am older and rewatching the series she is becoming my favorite after Sailor Moon.

 

[Hat]

My view of hell isn't brimestone and fire. I think that is more of a cultural thing. I think Hell might is either Separation from God or just simply death, you just end. Pretty much what the Atheist believes happens to you when you die. The Bible puts more emphasis on death than it does Hell fire which is why I believe that.

I don't think fire and brimstone are even mentioned in the Bible. What I was taught in my theology classes is that Hell is eternal separation from God and is a path one chooses, not one one is damned to. I also sort of like the idea that Hell is repetition; you're stuck in an eternal loop, repeating the worst experiences of your life over and over. Or maybe even just repeating the events that led up to your death. There's a neat Stephen King story about that concept called "That Feeling, You Can Only Say What it is in French" (which refers to deja vu, btw).

Personally, I don't really like to focus on the aspect of Hell much. I really think it is more separation from God than endless torment, like you said. I don't really view Hell as a place of endless torture more sadness and melancholy, but of course I don't know. I think it is more of the pain of being away from God's love than anything.

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels

And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Checkmate.

 

[AtroposHeart]

Checkmate.

Declaring victory before your opponent has a chance to respond is weenish.

I do not believe in a fundamentalist interruption of the Bible. I believe things like the "Garden of Eden" and "Noah's Arc" are allegories and scientific reasoning such as evolution are the explanations for origins of life, though God Guided.

I also believe that the Bible is not perfect because over the last two thousand years it has been translated through a variety of languages, and been used in numerous political agendas. My preacher (While not sharing my views) does have to do a lot of research into the original Greek translation of the Bible in order for it to make sense.

I believe the Hell fire is part allegory for the pain of separation from God along with possible political motives. The reason why I think this is because the discussion of Hell doesn't appear until the New Testament and most of the Bible discusses death in terms of well...death in contrast of having eternal life with God.

I am not an expert on my religion, far from it, but still learning. This is just my view which may change over time.

But I am going to leave this thread for now because I don't want a fight to start along with getting the thread partly locked.

 

[Holdek]

By the way we are both Moonies!

Probably shouldn't write that in the Religion Discussion thread. (Well, unless you actually are a Moonie.)

 

[Eldritch]

I think a lot of people get the impression that they fail at Buddhism or meditation due to basic misconceptions of how it's supposed to work. If you treat it as a goal-oriented self-improvement project, you're probably just going to get frustrated at your perceived failure or lack of progress. It's generally said that meditation should be performed as a non-activity. You're really not doing anything; you're simply observing what happens as you try to focus on the object of meditation. Through observation, you learn that your own thoughts and self-concept aren't really as important as you assumed they were. Eventually, you notice that just as your persistent worrying and rumination (for example) never seem to lead anywhere or resolve anything, your frustration that you're doing that thing again is equally useless. Once you can do that (i.e. stop rejecting your own thoughts and simply accept them as essentially meaningless things that sometimes happen), it starts to go away on its own, and you realize that it wasn't really a problem to begin with. The point is that it's not supposed to instantaneously fix your current problems or immunize you against any future troubles. The benefits only come indirectly. If you strive to get something, you'll only fail (compare to the paradox of hedonism).

It's a really, really common thing for people to try this stuff and then conclude that they "can't do it". But people who practice it seriously in monasteries, etc. don't generally have any special abilities that you don't.



No, it has nothing to do with "force". You can't force anything. You simply stop getting in your own way and realize that it's actually effortless.

I kind of get a vibe that they're coming at it from a christian perspective in the first place, and judging islam and buddhism from the outside in.

Christianity is different from any other religion because you are not saved by what you do or trying to be as perfect as possible.

Wait, sooo... Moses brought back the ten suggestions?

 

[Son of Big Boss]

Wait, sooo... Moses brought back the ten suggestions?

No human will ever be able to be sinless. If you break one of the commandments, you should just ask for God's forgiveness and try to do better next time.
Afterall, that's the entire reason Jesus came here. Because he saw that even with written out, easy to read instruction on how to be saved, no one still managed to do it.
"They can't save themselves, so i will save them myself"

 

[PantsOfDesire]

No human will ever be able to be sinless. If you break one of the commandments, you should just ask for God's forgiveness and try to do better next time.
Afterall, that's the entire reason Jesus came here. Because he saw that even with written out, easy to read instruction on how to be saved, no one still managed to do it.
"They can't save themselves, so i will save them myself"

There's very little of the Bible we can describe as being "easy to read instruction", and the Hebrew scriptures are no exception. Just compare Deuteronomy to Leviticus and ask how anyone could possibly come away with a coherent faith? Judaism was splintered, and remains so to this day, between differing interpretations of scripture? Why has Christianity splintered even more extensively? Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants are just the beginning. Now go to Methodists, Baptists, Lutherans, Mormons, Jehovahs Witnesses - the list is a very long one.

The reason is the same: it's just not clear. The books of the Bible appear to have been written by people who did not intend for them to be part of a coherent canon. This is why so many interpretations exist. For salvation, do I look to Mark? John? Paul? They disagree on some very core concepts of the religion, and even Jesus seems to have not read the script that would play out after his death.

This is not to say that Christianity is wrong. It could well be valid. The point is that scripture is really unclear. If that were not the case, then why do we need theologians and apologists to interpret the Bible? Why can't they agree?

 

[Eldritch]

No human will ever be able to be sinless. If you break one of the commandments, you should just ask for God's forgiveness and try to do better next time.

On one hand, I kinda get that. On the other hand, I see that abused far too often.
All the time I see people act like complete asshats, go to church, be asshats, go to church, arbitrarily quote the bible in the process of being an asshat, go to church, the pastor disagrees with the way they quoted the bible, change churches.
There's little point in following a religion if you don't make any effort to follow its teachings.

 

[Abethedemon]

I was thinking of getting into Asatru/Vanatru because I like the mythos and the values (strong female characters!), but I'm pretty sure no one in my family ever performed a blot to Bragi (or anyone else), probably cuz I'm Jewish. Would that still be okay? Also, I'm never just one religion at one time.

 

[Holdek]

No human will ever be able to be sinless. If you break one of the commandments, you should just ask for God's forgiveness and try to do better next time.
Afterall, that's the entire reason Jesus came here. Because he saw that even with written out, easy to read instruction on how to be saved, no one still managed to do it.
"They can't save themselves, so i will save them myself"

Uh okay, but what about the Jews?

 

[Guzzlord]

My belief comes pretty close to what people would call agnostic i think.
First of all i have problems how lots of people imagine God actually - they think of him as being basically as an omnipotent manlike deity, who based the pinnacle of his creation - the humans - on himself. I strongly disagree with this image - i imagine god as something metaphysic, something humankind is not able to grasp. People tend to forget that human perception of "reality" is limited and they keep projecting their own values on their god. Who says that a god would agree that humans, due to their superior intellect, are the goal/pinnacle of creation? Wouldnt a mosquito consider itself as the pinnacle of creation too if it could? Also who says that god would give a fuck about humans anyway?

TL;DR - i think there is something like a god, but we cant grasp it and its something completly different than most people do imagine when they think of "god".

I have to admit that i actually want to believe and seek something like spirital "guidance", but i think its kind of hard to achieve that, when you used to be super Anti-religion in your past. I feel like its actually close to impossible to move away from that "Lets explain everything with science. After death theres nothing. There is no god"-Redpill-Mindset, because it seems to make more sense from our viewpoint than believing in any god. I mean look at those super militant atheists, i doubt theyre actually happy with their belief...

 

[Guzzlord]

There's a difference between subscribing wholesale to a religion that makes unverifiable cosmological claims and an ethos or philosophy that provides a useful ethical framework and serves as a guide in daily life. Denying god doesn't mean that you have to embrace nihilism. Things like secular humanism are meant to provide a useful, positive worldview without the kinds of dubious claims that accompany religion.

I didnt meant to imply that atheism always goes hand in hand with nihilism, but rather talked about my own experiences. I used to be quite nihilistic and pessimistic in my past, so personally still have problems to break out of it and feel like that having something to firmly believe in would help me personally, didnt meant to generalize it and applying to everyone.

 

[Cosmos]

Given everything that's going on with ISIS, I wanted to discuss something that's been bothering me for a while now regarding Islam itself. Oh, and before I start, I am in no way implying that this applies to all Muslims because that's stupid and irrational; there are plenty of Muslims who don't exhibit this kind of behavior.

Anyway, I'm pretty uncomfortable with how Islam and Islamic societies in general regard blasphemy and censorship. Even some moderate Muslims believe that their religion trumps freedom of speech. I mean, in 2012, the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (aka the largest Islamic organization in the world) called for a worldwide ban on anything that could be deemed as denigration of the prophet Muhammad. And, of course, we're all aware of the controversies surrounding depictions of Muhammad, mocking or otherwise. You can't draw Muhammad for whatever reason without expecting at least a riot to break out.

It just kind of pisses me off because, as a Catholic, I can't go a day without hearing people hate on Christianity or make jokes about my religion. Why is it okay to make fun of Jesus and show him doing distinctly un-Jesus-like things (snorting cocaine, hitting on women, etc) but God forbid anyone even criticizes Muhammad? I'll be honest, I don't enjoy jokes at the expense of my religion. Like, at all. But I also don't throw a bitch fit about them; I just roll my eyes and ignore it. That's what everyone does when they hear an offensive joke (barring drama whores and SJWs, of course). I may not like it, but I also know that everyone has the right to have and express opinions.

And yeah, I know Christians used censorship in the past, but that's where it's stayed. Pretty much every Western country recognizes the importance of free speech and the dangers of censorship now. But in Islamic countries, their concept of blasphemy and censorship is absolute; no one is allowed to criticize or question Islam and no one is allowed to attempt to convert Muslims away from their religion. They are allowed to preach to others and can criticize other religions, but not the other way around. In countries like Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, freedom of speech and freedom of religion don't exist. Not only that, some (again, not all) Muslims in Western countries also believe that Islam is untouchable and all criticism and jokes about it should be banned.

Islam isn't special; it doesn't deserve to be treated any differently than Christianity or Judaism or Hinduism or whatever, and that includes both the positive and negative aspects. It just really pisses me off how even some very moderate Muslims believe that their faith is exempt from criticism; I've even seen some people imply that all of the riots, murders, and violence that occurs whenever Muhammad or Islam is made fun of is the fault of the people who made the jokes, as they shouldn't have insulted Islam.