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Favorite recurring character? (Select 4)

  • Jack / AIDSMobdy

    Votes: 257 24.0%
  • Josh / the Wizard

    Votes: 77 7.2%
  • Colin (Canadian #1)

    Votes: 460 42.9%
  • Jim (Canadian #2)

    Votes: 230 21.4%
  • Tim

    Votes: 386 36.0%
  • Len Kabasinski

    Votes: 208 19.4%
  • Freddie Williams

    Votes: 274 25.5%
  • Patton Oswalt

    Votes: 27 2.5%
  • Macaulay Culkin

    Votes: 541 50.4%
  • Max Landis

    Votes: 64 6.0%

  • Total voters
    1,073
It absolutely went over their head because they were too stupid or lazy to connect 'Four Horsemen' to 'Gotterdammerung', as was everyone in this thread even though i explicitly said it.

It's not that people don't "get it".

It's that it's less subtle than Stephenson naming the protagonist of Snow Crash Hiro Protagonist, or Darth Vader wearing all black and having an army of Stormtroopers, or being black in a fucking horror movie.

That type of shit? It's not clever. It's masturbatory. It's "Oh, oh, I'm being so goddamned clever here!" spunk-spurting. And there are exactly three sorts of response to it:

  • No response at all, because someone doesn't notice. In which case it's wasted effort. Nobody cares if your antagonist's name actually means "Stabbed by a Blade" in swahili, subtly foreshadowing his death, because it doesn't matter, he still dies, and also, nobody spoke fucking swahili, obviously.
  • Annoyance, because someone who actually did speak swahili noticed it, and still concluded that, as mentioned in the first response, it doesn't fucking matter.
  • More masturbatory cock-flogging from the group of people who notice it, don't realize it doesn't matter, and think they're so fucking clever for noticing.
 
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It's not that people don't "get it".

It's that it's less subtle than Stephenson naming the protagonist of Snow Crash Hiro Protagonist, or Darth Vader wearing all black and having an army of Stormtroopers, or being black in a fucking horror movie.

That type of shit? It's not clever. It's masturbatory. It's "Oh, oh, I'm being so goddamned clever here!" spunk-spurting. And there are exactly three sorts of response to it:

  • No response at all, because someone doesn't notice. In which case it's wasted effort. Nobody cares if your antagonist's name actually means "Stabbed by a Blade" in swahili, subtly foreshadowing his death, because it doesn't matter, he still dies, and also, nobody spoke fucking swahili, obviously.
  • Annoyance, because someone who actually did speak swahili noticed it, and still concluded that, as mentioned in the first response, it doesn't fucking matter.
  • More masturbatory cock-flogging from the group of people who notice it, don't realize it doesn't matter, and think they're so fucking clever for noticing.
The main character of Tenet is literally named "The Protagonist", and Nolan put more effort in making the film's dialogue vague in reference to him (so it was a credits easter egg for most people) than Snyder has put into any single one of his scripts, ever.
 
Snyder puts a shitload of effort into his work. The problem is he's a retard, and the harder he works the more retarded his product.
 
Snyder puts a shitload of effort into his work. The problem is he's a retard, and the harder he works the more retarded his product.

Snyder's early work is interesting. I was raised on Romero's Dawn of the Dead and I went into the remake fully expecting to hate it, but I found it surprisingly entertaining. Not much going on in the way of thoughtfulness, but it's a good enough zombie flick. 300 is deeper, and probably his best film. Watchmen was ... a brave effort. It's essentially unfilmable, but he did what he could.

The problem is he clearly started believing he's some kind of genius, and his writing leaves a whooooole lot to be desired. But it seems to catch fire with self-regarding dimwits, apparently.
 
TL;DR: [autistic screeching]
It's so cute that he thinks I'm actually going to read any of that. If I wanted to watch someone gargle a rich Hollywood dude's balls, there are plenty of celebrity sex tapes out there.

I don't know what he thinks he's accomplishing. There's even less of a chance of Snyder-Senpai noticing him here than on twitter. And it's not like he's impressing anyone here with his "intellect."
 
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It's so cute that he thinks we're actually going to read any of that. If I wanted to watch someone gargle a rich Hollywood dude's balls, there are plenty of celebrity sex tapes out there.

I actually did read it. Every single point could be dismantled by almost any person in this thread with ease, but it's written in such a superior, high-handed, I-just-discovered-auteur-theory-and-I-am-smarter-than-anyone tone that it's obvious there's no point in arguing with this creature. This is the sort of fellow who thinks he's brilliant for noticing the symbolism of a martyr character having the initials J.C.
 
I actually did read it. Every single point could be dismantled by almost any person in this thread with ease, but it's written in such a superior, high-handed, I-just-discovered-auteur-theory-and-I-am-smarter-than-anyone tone that it's obvious there's no point in arguing with this creature. This is the sort of fellow who thinks he's brilliant for noticing the symbolism of a martyr character having the initials J.C.
Oh, definitely. I knew exactly what it would be, which is why I skipped it. Congratulations to him on making it halfway through "What Is Cinema?", I guess.

Like, in Discworld, the anthropomorphic personification of Death literally rides a pale horse. And no, it's not supposed to be grand symbolism, it's an obvious joke about so-called "grand symbolism", as said pale horse is named "Binky." Because some people have seen this shit before ad nauseum.

Bet he thinks Mass Effect is deep because the protagonist is named Shepherd.
 
Yes, Zack Snyder, the great man of film.

A man capable of rallying the wills of others and bending them towards the fulfillment of his own personal visions. Sure there are bigger films than Army of the Dead, but most of them are shit. And the reason why is because without the vision and will of a great man at the top capable of asserting order over that many other wills the whole thing falls apart. A handy relatively recent example being Solo: A Star Wars Story, officially the seventh most expensive film ever made clocking in with a budget of 275 million dollars, but who knows how high that number actually got in reality.

Solo is what happens when you try to synthesize greatness. This belief it's something we can just streamline, industrialise, do all of the processing by steam. No big heads messing things up with their idiosyncratic weirdness. great production by steam. Artistic rule by coffee-fetchers, button-pushers, middlemen and mere craftsmen. The result is a 275 million dollar car crash. No not even that much. Car Crashes are cool to observe. The Room is a car crash. And that's because in his own way Tommy Wiseau is also a great man of film. Almost no technical skill and a vision so shallow it reaches the point of charming naivete, but an auteur nonetheless. This vital force of will imbues his work with vitality and strength that has allowed it to outlast countless works that blow him out of the water in terms of competence. The auteur element is the lifeblood of art, it's the soul. It's the reason Tommy Wiseau is a little emoji you can post on this forum but even most of the people who saw it have completely forgotten that Solo: A Star Wars Story even existed. Solo is not an artistic car crash, it's more like the artistic equivalent to that tanker getting stuck in the Suez Canal. Slow, cumbersome, frustrating, inevitable. The works of great men run into the ground by the morons who crept into their system. Uncountable man-hours poured into a project that means nothing. All the work wasted on a result that's simply boring.

When you watch a Zack Snyder film you are getting a Zack Snyder film. He isn't just a name on the can. He's the essential element of the work. 90 million dollars to do as he pleases, and this vision is his from coming up with the name to personally pointing the cameras while shooting to editing the final cut to his own satisfaction. It's not often that one man is able to direct this much towards a vision that's entirely his own. Greatness is power. Making what you want happen from scratch. Zack Snyder is a man with a head full of very grand and idiosyncratic visions which he has been able to realise more or less entirely to his own standards several times over. This makes him a great man of cinema.


It absolutely went over their head because they were too stupid or lazy to connect 'Four Horsemen' to 'Gotterdammerung', as was everyone in this thread even though i explicitly said it. You apes still don't get it. The "four horsemen" reference doesn't just mean "bad things are about to happen". If that's all you see going on maybe this feels on the nose, but that's not all that's going on. Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, old Christian vision of the end times composed under the Roman Empire. Think Rome. Think the light of civilisation almost going out. This explicit hint alone and a bit of perception should be enough to get you over the line but Snyder goes further. A German artisan craftsman who listens to Wagner has to open the Gotterdammerung.

Gotterdammerung. The Twilight of the Gods. Ragnarok. The death and rebirth of the world. The European epic of the cycle of life and civilisation. That is what this film is about. The Four Horsemen reference at the beginning is your early hint to direct your thoughts to a grander interpretation of the story than the direct and literal circumstances of the protagonists. The later Wagner references are your big nudge. This is what the film is about. The film is Snyder's Wagnerian vision of the end of America and the white first world.

The film opens with two opposed advanced strains of American culture that literally collide head-on, with an older simpler strain caught in the middle. Faustian man is starting to cross the final frontier, pursuit of power has pushed him to start literally leaving humanity behind. One of their pawns has fallen victim to an experiment that goes beyond the accepted level of human instrumentalisation that takes place in all militaries. Through some biomechanical engineering wizardry an American soldier has been turned into some kind of base, nigh-unstoppable killing machine, at the cost of all of his higher faculties. The (overwhelmingly white) American military portrayed in this film appear as the noble, good-intentioned and middlingly sophisticated pawns of powers incomprehensibly darker and more ambitious than they can imagine (our introduction to the military is them speculating as to what their masters could have given them to carry, their thoughts all revolve around americana lore with a tinge of darkness and awe of the power they know their side is capable of ("could be a briefcase nuke"), but they clearly believe that their side is fundamentally good, or at least they are again literally shown to be unable to imagine the inhumanity of what powerful Americans have done with their unwitting cooperation.

We have Faustian puppetmasters, we have noble, competent and capable of sacrificing boots on the ground, the third american strain present is the decadents. The careless vegas newlyweds who are too busy revelling in their successful mockery of what was once a sacrament to see what's coming right for them. This is true of both sides, the guys who still take america seriously and the ones who no longer give a shit are both blindsided by the freak event which unleashes the deranged ambitions of our civilisation's most powerful.

The freak event happens, the masters' project gets loose, and we get Snyder's visual quote of American Werewolf in London, a film about this irresistible base monster that lurks inside men breaking out and wreaking destruction. Maybe Snyder was trying to say more than "hey remember this horror film i'm making a horror film too let's make them look the same". He's giving you an early signal to tell you how we might think about the monsters in this film.

Then we get the montage of the destruction of Las Vegas. A vision of weakness, decadence and helplessness in the face of a new surging mass of pseudo-humanity. It's not even a fight, within Vegas the old order is swept aside by the new. The limited remaining spots of vitality, duty, power and courage in the old order resist, but it's not enough. The last vestiges of classical American heroism are overwhelmed. The tall, clean, intelligent and noble looking white army officer is overrun while fighting and calls down a plane to ensure his last job is done right. Too much of what's finer and more sophisticated in America has become fragile, decadent, or useless. Where we see true resistance is in the introduction-role of our main cast. We're shown their pre-apocalypse careers. Why do you think that is? Because class and social status are everything in this film. Nobody is just who they are. Everyone and everything stands for more than what's right in front of you. The greatest resistance to the fall seems to be coming from vital but unrefined portions of American society. The self-sufficient strugglers. Small business owners, labourers, we get an up-and-coming academic from an underprivileged background. These ones put up the fight, they're strong because they haven't had time to go brittle, their america is an america still growing and trying to become, they're coming into their full strength and potency. The academic literally fights with a working man's power-tool which he is shown to reflexively repurpose into a weapon when threatened. This character is the most culturally refined of the hard vegas survivors and the highest up the social scale. This moment is your clear sign that despite his education it is his hard worker's edge that saves him. American/faustian/white Civilisation has hit its zenith, or its greatest crisis, either way what is not robust will burn.

The film is about this cyclical process of striving upwards toward successively greater heights, successively greater ambitions and works, reaching great unique heights, and then a crashing return to a nadir only to start again. Look how much is going on just in the film's prologue. I feel like I've barely scratched the surface of this film. And it all went over nearly everyone's heads. Not catching this doesn't make you a bad person, but it absolutely makes you a poor critic.

This is the kind of detail one can realise as an auteur. This is the kind of subtext that can easily be coded into a film which still remains entirely watchable on its surface. Only seeing the surface is fine. Only seeing the surface and disliking the surface is fine. Only seeing the surface, disliking the surface, and telling people authoritatively that the work is stupid because of this is not fine. It's a conspiracy against society's cultivation of greater taste and sensitivity. It's a crime against the soul of humanity.


The point is not that RLM fans believe what RLM say, though that is a separate problem. The great underlying issue here is the conspiracy between RLM and viewers to maintain the comfortable assumption that what is displeasing is bad and stupid and that these monumental works of human expression have nothing going on that we can't fully admire or dismiss within a few minutes. RLM is comfortable noise. And the comfort is in them assuring you, in their professional capacity as former wedding photographers, that the works of your betters are actually hot garbage. You don't challenge RLM and RLM don't challenge you. Everyone just submits to a vapid almost language-like droning until death. Much better than dealing with the shame of acknowledging anybody's better than you.

And securing a massive stack of money to put towards something pleasing to yourself is evidence of a kind of greatness, even if you fail. There's no question it's enough to incur resentment from those who don't, which is why so many love to hear of these endeavours failing. This here isn't so much a defense of filmmakers as an attempt at a pre-emptive defusal of criticism. The fact they're able to secure such vast resources for their own use is upsetting to the wretched and insecure. Not saying nobody can have a valid critique of film because of this, but it's something which should always be in the back of our minds, both when reading criticism and when preparing to make our own. My proper defense of the filmmakers is the rest of my posting about film on this site, and elsewhere.

And that's enough for now.

Yes this is a lot of words. Keep collectively chanting your incantation from the walls of Fort Dunning-Krueger like it means anything but the protective reassurance of your fellow idiots. "autistic!", "an autist!", "look how many words!", "autistic!", "autistic!", "imagine caring about cinema", "only an autistic would write this much about something!", "autistic!"
Man I can’t read all of that, can you please take Zack Snyder’s dick and balls out of your mouth, it’s annoying how much you’re deep throating him.
 
Yes, Zack Snyder, the great man of film.

A man capable of rallying the wills of others and bending them towards the fulfillment of his own personal visions. Sure there are bigger films than Army of the Dead, but most of them are shit. And the reason why is because without the vision and will of a great man at the top capable of asserting order over that many other wills the whole thing falls apart. A handy relatively recent example being Solo: A Star Wars Story, officially the seventh most expensive film ever made clocking in with a budget of 275 million dollars, but who knows how high that number actually got in reality.

Solo is what happens when you try to synthesize greatness. This belief it's something we can just streamline, industrialise, do all of the processing by steam. No big heads messing things up with their idiosyncratic weirdness. great production by steam. Artistic rule by coffee-fetchers, button-pushers, middlemen and mere craftsmen. The result is a 275 million dollar car crash. No not even that much. Car Crashes are cool to observe. The Room is a car crash. And that's because in his own way Tommy Wiseau is also a great man of film. Almost no technical skill and a vision so shallow it reaches the point of charming naivete, but an auteur nonetheless. This vital force of will imbues his work with vitality and strength that has allowed it to outlast countless works that blow him out of the water in terms of competence. The auteur element is the lifeblood of art, it's the soul. It's the reason Tommy Wiseau is a little emoji you can post on this forum but even most of the people who saw it have completely forgotten that Solo: A Star Wars Story even existed. Solo is not an artistic car crash, it's more like the artistic equivalent to that tanker getting stuck in the Suez Canal. Slow, cumbersome, frustrating, inevitable. The works of great men run into the ground by the morons who crept into their system. Uncountable man-hours poured into a project that means nothing. All the work wasted on a result that's simply boring.

When you watch a Zack Snyder film you are getting a Zack Snyder film. He isn't just a name on the can. He's the essential element of the work. 90 million dollars to do as he pleases, and this vision is his from coming up with the name to personally pointing the cameras while shooting to editing the final cut to his own satisfaction. It's not often that one man is able to direct this much towards a vision that's entirely his own. Greatness is power. Making what you want happen from scratch. Zack Snyder is a man with a head full of very grand and idiosyncratic visions which he has been able to realise more or less entirely to his own standards several times over. This makes him a great man of cinema.


It absolutely went over their head because they were too stupid or lazy to connect 'Four Horsemen' to 'Gotterdammerung', as was everyone in this thread even though i explicitly said it. You apes still don't get it. The "four horsemen" reference doesn't just mean "bad things are about to happen". If that's all you see going on maybe this feels on the nose, but that's not all that's going on. Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, old Christian vision of the end times composed under the Roman Empire. Think Rome. Think the light of civilisation almost going out. This explicit hint alone and a bit of perception should be enough to get you over the line but Snyder goes further. A German artisan craftsman who listens to Wagner has to open the Gotterdammerung.

Gotterdammerung. The Twilight of the Gods. Ragnarok. The death and rebirth of the world. The European epic of the cycle of life and civilisation. That is what this film is about. The Four Horsemen reference at the beginning is your early hint to direct your thoughts to a grander interpretation of the story than the direct and literal circumstances of the protagonists. The later Wagner references are your big nudge. This is what the film is about. The film is Snyder's Wagnerian vision of the end of America and the white first world.

The film opens with two opposed advanced strains of American culture that literally collide head-on, with an older simpler strain caught in the middle. Faustian man is starting to cross the final frontier, pursuit of power has pushed him to start literally leaving humanity behind. One of their pawns has fallen victim to an experiment that goes beyond the accepted level of human instrumentalisation that takes place in all militaries. Through some biomechanical engineering wizardry an American soldier has been turned into some kind of base, nigh-unstoppable killing machine, at the cost of all of his higher faculties. The (overwhelmingly white) American military portrayed in this film appear as the noble, good-intentioned and middlingly sophisticated pawns of powers incomprehensibly darker and more ambitious than they can imagine (our introduction to the military is them speculating as to what their masters could have given them to carry, their thoughts all revolve around americana lore with a tinge of darkness and awe of the power they know their side is capable of ("could be a briefcase nuke"), but they clearly believe that their side is fundamentally good, or at least they are again literally shown to be unable to imagine the inhumanity of what powerful Americans have done with their unwitting cooperation.

We have Faustian puppetmasters, we have noble, competent and capable of sacrificing boots on the ground, the third american strain present is the decadents. The careless vegas newlyweds who are too busy revelling in their successful mockery of what was once a sacrament to see what's coming right for them. This is true of both sides, the guys who still take america seriously and the ones who no longer give a shit are both blindsided by the freak event which unleashes the deranged ambitions of our civilisation's most powerful.

The freak event happens, the masters' project gets loose, and we get Snyder's visual quote of American Werewolf in London, a film about this irresistible base monster that lurks inside men breaking out and wreaking destruction. Maybe Snyder was trying to say more than "hey remember this horror film i'm making a horror film too let's make them look the same". He's giving you an early signal to tell you how we might think about the monsters in this film.

Then we get the montage of the destruction of Las Vegas. A vision of weakness, decadence and helplessness in the face of a new surging mass of pseudo-humanity. It's not even a fight, within Vegas the old order is swept aside by the new. The limited remaining spots of vitality, duty, power and courage in the old order resist, but it's not enough. The last vestiges of classical American heroism are overwhelmed. The tall, clean, intelligent and noble looking white army officer is overrun while fighting and calls down a plane to ensure his last job is done right. Too much of what's finer and more sophisticated in America has become fragile, decadent, or useless. Where we see true resistance is in the introduction-role of our main cast. We're shown their pre-apocalypse careers. Why do you think that is? Because class and social status are everything in this film. Nobody is just who they are. Everyone and everything stands for more than what's right in front of you. The greatest resistance to the fall seems to be coming from vital but unrefined portions of American society. The self-sufficient strugglers. Small business owners, labourers, we get an up-and-coming academic from an underprivileged background. These ones put up the fight, they're strong because they haven't had time to go brittle, their america is an america still growing and trying to become, they're coming into their full strength and potency. The academic literally fights with a working man's power-tool which he is shown to reflexively repurpose into a weapon when threatened. This character is the most culturally refined of the hard vegas survivors and the highest up the social scale. This moment is your clear sign that despite his education it is his hard worker's edge that saves him. American/faustian/white Civilisation has hit its zenith, or its greatest crisis, either way what is not robust will burn.

The film is about this cyclical process of striving upwards toward successively greater heights, successively greater ambitions and works, reaching great unique heights, and then a crashing return to a nadir only to start again. Look how much is going on just in the film's prologue. I feel like I've barely scratched the surface of this film. And it all went over nearly everyone's heads. Not catching this doesn't make you a bad person, but it absolutely makes you a poor critic.

This is the kind of detail one can realise as an auteur. This is the kind of subtext that can easily be coded into a film which still remains entirely watchable on its surface. Only seeing the surface is fine. Only seeing the surface and disliking the surface is fine. Only seeing the surface, disliking the surface, and telling people authoritatively that the work is stupid because of this is not fine. It's a conspiracy against society's cultivation of greater taste and sensitivity. It's a crime against the soul of humanity.


The point is not that RLM fans believe what RLM say, though that is a separate problem. The great underlying issue here is the conspiracy between RLM and viewers to maintain the comfortable assumption that what is displeasing is bad and stupid and that these monumental works of human expression have nothing going on that we can't fully admire or dismiss within a few minutes. RLM is comfortable noise. And the comfort is in them assuring you, in their professional capacity as former wedding photographers, that the works of your betters are actually hot garbage. You don't challenge RLM and RLM don't challenge you. Everyone just submits to a vapid almost language-like droning until death. Much better than dealing with the shame of acknowledging anybody's better than you.

And securing a massive stack of money to put towards something pleasing to yourself is evidence of a kind of greatness, even if you fail. There's no question it's enough to incur resentment from those who don't, which is why so many love to hear of these endeavours failing. This here isn't so much a defense of filmmakers as an attempt at a pre-emptive defusal of criticism. The fact they're able to secure such vast resources for their own use is upsetting to the wretched and insecure. Not saying nobody can have a valid critique of film because of this, but it's something which should always be in the back of our minds, both when reading criticism and when preparing to make our own. My proper defense of the filmmakers is the rest of my posting about film on this site, and elsewhere.

And that's enough for now.

Yes this is a lot of words. Keep collectively chanting your incantation from the walls of Fort Dunning-Krueger like it means anything but the protective reassurance of your fellow idiots. "autistic!", "an autist!", "look how many words!", "autistic!", "autistic!", "imagine caring about cinema", "only an autistic would write this much about something!", "autistic!"
Meanwhile his "best work ever" (The Batman Warehouse Fight) is a broken incoherent mess that doesn't even make it 30 seconds before becoming utterly broken from any sane perspective.

Zack Snyder is the worst major "director" of our time, He makes Michael Bay look like a fucking genius in comparison.
 
Meanwhile his "best work ever" (The Batman Warehouse Fight) is a broken incoherent mess that doesn't even make it 30 seconds before becoming utterly broken from any sane perspective.

Zack Snyder is the worst major "director" of our time, He makes Michael Bay look like a fucking genius in comparison.
The “Watchmen” intro was pretty good, although Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons did most of the legwork there.
 
The “Watchmen” intro was pretty good, although Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons did most of the legwork there.
Yeah, Snyder is really good at stealing Comic Panels and putting them up on the big screen and not a whole lot fucking else.
 
Snyder's early work is interesting. I was raised on Romero's Dawn of the Dead and I went into the remake fully expecting to hate it, but I found it surprisingly entertaining. Not much going on in the way of thoughtfulness, but it's a good enough zombie flick. 300 is deeper, and probably his best film. Watchmen was ... a brave effort. It's essentially unfilmable, but he did what he could.

The problem is he clearly started believing he's some kind of genius, and his writing leaves a whooooole lot to be desired. But it seems to catch fire with self-regarding dimwits, apparently.

300 is utter shite. That's not really Snyder's fault, since the comic book was utter shite.
 
Who in the hell let Moviebob on the site?
Implying for a second that Moviebob would consider Zack Snyder as anything more than someone who makes movies that the people who beat him up in high school like and deserved to have his daughter commit suicide.
 
I genuinely don't understand what there is to like, aside from boobies of both sexes.
Honestly, I don't remember too much about it. I haven't seen it since it was in the theatres, which is what, 2005? I remember liking the look of it, and Gerard Butler, and I've always just enjoyed the story of Thermopylae. I dunno, maybe if I revisited it I'd find more to kvetch about. I usually do.
 
Yes, Zack Snyder, the great man of film.

A man capable of rallying the wills of others and bending them towards the fulfillment of his own personal visions. Sure there are bigger films than Army of the Dead, but most of them are shit. And the reason why is because without the vision and will of a great man at the top capable of asserting order over that many other wills the whole thing falls apart. A handy relatively recent example being Solo: A Star Wars Story, officially the seventh most expensive film ever made clocking in with a budget of 275 million dollars, but who knows how high that number actually got in reality.

Solo is what happens when you try to synthesize greatness. This belief it's something we can just streamline, industrialise, do all of the processing by steam. No big heads messing things up with their idiosyncratic weirdness. great production by steam. Artistic rule by coffee-fetchers, button-pushers, middlemen and mere craftsmen. The result is a 275 million dollar car crash. No not even that much. Car Crashes are cool to observe. The Room is a car crash. And that's because in his own way Tommy Wiseau is also a great man of film. Almost no technical skill and a vision so shallow it reaches the point of charming naivete, but an auteur nonetheless. This vital force of will imbues his work with vitality and strength that has allowed it to outlast countless works that blow him out of the water in terms of competence. The auteur element is the lifeblood of art, it's the soul. It's the reason Tommy Wiseau is a little emoji you can post on this forum but even most of the people who saw it have completely forgotten that Solo: A Star Wars Story even existed. Solo is not an artistic car crash, it's more like the artistic equivalent to that tanker getting stuck in the Suez Canal. Slow, cumbersome, frustrating, inevitable. The works of great men run into the ground by the morons who crept into their system. Uncountable man-hours poured into a project that means nothing. All the work wasted on a result that's simply boring.

When you watch a Zack Snyder film you are getting a Zack Snyder film. He isn't just a name on the can. He's the essential element of the work. 90 million dollars to do as he pleases, and this vision is his from coming up with the name to personally pointing the cameras while shooting to editing the final cut to his own satisfaction. It's not often that one man is able to direct this much towards a vision that's entirely his own. Greatness is power. Making what you want happen from scratch. Zack Snyder is a man with a head full of very grand and idiosyncratic visions which he has been able to realise more or less entirely to his own standards several times over. This makes him a great man of cinema.


It absolutely went over their head because they were too stupid or lazy to connect 'Four Horsemen' to 'Gotterdammerung', as was everyone in this thread even though i explicitly said it. You apes still don't get it. The "four horsemen" reference doesn't just mean "bad things are about to happen". If that's all you see going on maybe this feels on the nose, but that's not all that's going on. Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, old Christian vision of the end times composed under the Roman Empire. Think Rome. Think the light of civilisation almost going out. This explicit hint alone and a bit of perception should be enough to get you over the line but Snyder goes further. A German artisan craftsman who listens to Wagner has to open the Gotterdammerung.

Gotterdammerung. The Twilight of the Gods. Ragnarok. The death and rebirth of the world. The European epic of the cycle of life and civilisation. That is what this film is about. The Four Horsemen reference at the beginning is your early hint to direct your thoughts to a grander interpretation of the story than the direct and literal circumstances of the protagonists. The later Wagner references are your big nudge. This is what the film is about. The film is Snyder's Wagnerian vision of the end of America and the white first world.

The film opens with two opposed advanced strains of American culture that literally collide head-on, with an older simpler strain caught in the middle. Faustian man is starting to cross the final frontier, pursuit of power has pushed him to start literally leaving humanity behind. One of their pawns has fallen victim to an experiment that goes beyond the accepted level of human instrumentalisation that takes place in all militaries. Through some biomechanical engineering wizardry an American soldier has been turned into some kind of base, nigh-unstoppable killing machine, at the cost of all of his higher faculties. The (overwhelmingly white) American military portrayed in this film appear as the noble, good-intentioned and middlingly sophisticated pawns of powers incomprehensibly darker and more ambitious than they can imagine (our introduction to the military is them speculating as to what their masters could have given them to carry, their thoughts all revolve around americana lore with a tinge of darkness and awe of the power they know their side is capable of ("could be a briefcase nuke"), but they clearly believe that their side is fundamentally good, or at least they are again literally shown to be unable to imagine the inhumanity of what powerful Americans have done with their unwitting cooperation.

We have Faustian puppetmasters, we have noble, competent and capable of sacrificing boots on the ground, the third american strain present is the decadents. The careless vegas newlyweds who are too busy revelling in their successful mockery of what was once a sacrament to see what's coming right for them. This is true of both sides, the guys who still take america seriously and the ones who no longer give a shit are both blindsided by the freak event which unleashes the deranged ambitions of our civilisation's most powerful.

The freak event happens, the masters' project gets loose, and we get Snyder's visual quote of American Werewolf in London, a film about this irresistible base monster that lurks inside men breaking out and wreaking destruction. Maybe Snyder was trying to say more than "hey remember this horror film i'm making a horror film too let's make them look the same". He's giving you an early signal to tell you how we might think about the monsters in this film.

Then we get the montage of the destruction of Las Vegas. A vision of weakness, decadence and helplessness in the face of a new surging mass of pseudo-humanity. It's not even a fight, within Vegas the old order is swept aside by the new. The limited remaining spots of vitality, duty, power and courage in the old order resist, but it's not enough. The last vestiges of classical American heroism are overwhelmed. The tall, clean, intelligent and noble looking white army officer is overrun while fighting and calls down a plane to ensure his last job is done right. Too much of what's finer and more sophisticated in America has become fragile, decadent, or useless. Where we see true resistance is in the introduction-role of our main cast. We're shown their pre-apocalypse careers. Why do you think that is? Because class and social status are everything in this film. Nobody is just who they are. Everyone and everything stands for more than what's right in front of you. The greatest resistance to the fall seems to be coming from vital but unrefined portions of American society. The self-sufficient strugglers. Small business owners, labourers, we get an up-and-coming academic from an underprivileged background. These ones put up the fight, they're strong because they haven't had time to go brittle, their america is an america still growing and trying to become, they're coming into their full strength and potency. The academic literally fights with a working man's power-tool which he is shown to reflexively repurpose into a weapon when threatened. This character is the most culturally refined of the hard vegas survivors and the highest up the social scale. This moment is your clear sign that despite his education it is his hard worker's edge that saves him. American/faustian/white Civilisation has hit its zenith, or its greatest crisis, either way what is not robust will burn.

The film is about this cyclical process of striving upwards toward successively greater heights, successively greater ambitions and works, reaching great unique heights, and then a crashing return to a nadir only to start again. Look how much is going on just in the film's prologue. I feel like I've barely scratched the surface of this film. And it all went over nearly everyone's heads. Not catching this doesn't make you a bad person, but it absolutely makes you a poor critic.

This is the kind of detail one can realise as an auteur. This is the kind of subtext that can easily be coded into a film which still remains entirely watchable on its surface. Only seeing the surface is fine. Only seeing the surface and disliking the surface is fine. Only seeing the surface, disliking the surface, and telling people authoritatively that the work is stupid because of this is not fine. It's a conspiracy against society's cultivation of greater taste and sensitivity. It's a crime against the soul of humanity.


The point is not that RLM fans believe what RLM say, though that is a separate problem. The great underlying issue here is the conspiracy between RLM and viewers to maintain the comfortable assumption that what is displeasing is bad and stupid and that these monumental works of human expression have nothing going on that we can't fully admire or dismiss within a few minutes. RLM is comfortable noise. And the comfort is in them assuring you, in their professional capacity as former wedding photographers, that the works of your betters are actually hot garbage. You don't challenge RLM and RLM don't challenge you. Everyone just submits to a vapid almost language-like droning until death. Much better than dealing with the shame of acknowledging anybody's better than you.

And securing a massive stack of money to put towards something pleasing to yourself is evidence of a kind of greatness, even if you fail. There's no question it's enough to incur resentment from those who don't, which is why so many love to hear of these endeavours failing. This here isn't so much a defense of filmmakers as an attempt at a pre-emptive defusal of criticism. The fact they're able to secure such vast resources for their own use is upsetting to the wretched and insecure. Not saying nobody can have a valid critique of film because of this, but it's something which should always be in the back of our minds, both when reading criticism and when preparing to make our own. My proper defense of the filmmakers is the rest of my posting about film on this site, and elsewhere.

And that's enough for now.

Yes this is a lot of words. Keep collectively chanting your incantation from the walls of Fort Dunning-Krueger like it means anything but the protective reassurance of your fellow idiots. "autistic!", "an autist!", "look how many words!", "autistic!", "autistic!", "imagine caring about cinema", "only an autistic would write this much about something!", "autistic!"
You seem upset.
 
I'll just say this much: I've seen tons of people post screeds like this gushing over Zack Snyder on 4chan as if his works mean anything beyond surface level symbolism.

And I STILL cannot tell if they're being ironic or are seriously deluded; or worse, just really want to stick it to Marvel by praising total shit as if it was gold.
 
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