Red Letter Media

[KrewlKween]

I'm getting big creator burnout vibes from Mike. No shame there, but it's a feeling I'm getting.

I think I've voiced this opinion before too. Same shit is going down with James Rolfe so maybe I've only voiced it on his thread. These guys who got big on the review scene 10 years ago are finally facing the music. Puting out content at a weekly or biweekly pace is mentally draining even if it was/is your ideal job. Fun or not, shooting and editing video, especially the same type of video format gets boring. This is their entire source of income, they've got nothing else if they fail. Granted I think Mike and Jay would be able to use their connections to get real jobs in the industry if they wanted to, I don't think they do. The RLM guys are very rare in that they have a fanbase that is extremely engaged and loves everything they do, they could put a larger space between videos and I don't think they'd get any backlash. Hell if they made a video addressing their fatigue they'd probably rake in a ton of extra sympathy Pateron dollars. Not every creator is that lucky. Though you're right that it's mostly Mike showing the fatigue, not Jay, to me at least.

In James' case I blamed becoming a father of 2 and having a harpy for a wife who despite not working nags the shit out of him to still watch the kids an equal share instead of idk, supporting her meal ticket husband and shutting the fuck up? Who knows, maybe that's Mike's life behind the scenes. Maybe he married Jessi and popped out a couple kids and he's being crushed under the weight of all that responsibility. Workaholics tend to grind themselves into dust like that and I think I read that Jack or Jay mentioned Mike being a chronic workaholic on prerec. Kind of adds up. Maybe Mike is dealing with an illness either mental or physical and he seems drugged up and tired because he's on medication? It seemed very apparent in the last Re:view with Mack, he was better in this one though. Makes me wish they weren't so secretive about their personal lives, when I'm sure there's a very reasonable explanation for whatever is going on. At least we know Mike will never sell out to a third party like James did. He'd throw the channel in the trash before that would ever happen.

 

[Dom Cruise]

It’s weird that web videos have been a thing long enough that we’re at the point where they can be suffering from burn out, it all feels still so new to me.

But it fucking sucks, almost a year later I am still not over the Super Best Friends break up, I hate that James Rolfe is a shadow of what he once was, it just fucking sucks when these things happen.

2019 has really been the year for burn out for this stuff too, almost everyone that I subscribe to have put out way less videos than before this year for whatever reason, RLM included.

As for RLM I sincerely hope they aren’t calling it quits anytime soon, I say this without a hint of hyperbole, their videos have been one of the very best things about the 2010s, this nightmare of a decade would have been intolerable without the laughs they’ve provided.

Their output has already slowed way down from what it used to be, so I’m not thrilled about the idea of them slowing even more down, but hey, some videos are better than none, whatever keeps them going.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

In James' case I blamed becoming a father of 2 and having a harpy for a wife who despite not working nags the shit out of him to still watch the kids an equal share instead of idk, supporting her meal ticket husband and shutting the fuck up?

It isn't just that, He also more of a Movie guy than a Video Game guy, he likes Video Games but he doesn't eat, sleep and breathe them like Mike Mattei does.

 

[Dom Cruise]

I think what clearly went wrong for James was the AVGN movie.

I’m sure he worked his ass off to get it made and spent a lot of money and it was still garbage and I’m sure he realizes that.

It killed his momentum and he never fully recovered it, there’s a sharp difference in episodes pre and post movie if you ask me, not that the post movie episodes are always bad even, just different, a certain energy was lost.

He’s the internet Icarus that flew too close to the sun, he tried the hardest out of all of them to make his movie a “real” movie and that ironically only made it worse, he was too ambitious, it would have worked better as a just a big episode rather than a “movie” ala his Texas Chainsaw and Halloween episodes.

Similarly I think the failure of Space Cop killed some of RLM’s momentum, not as drastically but again you can see a clear difference in energy pre and post Space Cop, I wanna say it was post Space Cop or not long too after that they started releasing way less videos than they used to, even if in that case it was more a gradual thing.

The lesson is these guys need to just stick to web videos and forget about movies.

 

[FernandoPooTragedy]

Snip

Okay... so I had this huge response written, then I dropped my phone and it changed the page and it deleted everything I said.

But the tl;dr of it was that a) Jessi and Mike broke up and while family life just naturally changes priorities of a person's life, I think it is more a case of b) The change in the media landscape, where all the big stuff being produced are either half-baked, shitty revivals of old work (Predator, Terminator, Disney remakes), prestige movies no one cares about or exhausting franchises (Star Wars, Mavrel, DCEU, Conjuring) and the smaller stuff is the sort of weird shit Jay loves (hence why he always seems so chipper when talking about non-franchise bait, even when he doesn't like the movie that much). Mike is at a place where he enjoys The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel more than Star Trek right now. That's where he is in his life. That's where streaming has brought us. And c) I always get the feeling that Mike isn't necessarily comfortable with being the "face" of the company since he doesn't seem to like to engage online outside of the videos. It's why Jay seems to handle all the twitter and Patreon stuff.

(Sorry, guess I prefer kvetching about their media tastes since that's what they're comfortable sharing. Also I like bitching about movies)

Snip.

It's funny, but I was about to suggest they give movies another go. Maybe try something a bit more earnest and less ironic than Space Cop. If necessary, get one of their writer friends to help them with a script. Too many youtuber movies pull the irony card anyways. Mike seems to like directing and it might be a nice change of pace for them. They'd get tons of kickstarter support.

 

[BrunoMattei]

I think what clearly went wrong for James was the AVGN movie.

I’m sure he worked his ass off to get it made and spent a lot of money and it was still garbage and I’m sure he realizes that.

It killed his momentum and he never fully recovered it, there’s a sharp difference in episodes pre and post movie if you ask me, not that the post movie episodes are always bad even, just different, a certain energy was lost.

He’s the internet Icarus that flew too close to the sun, he tried the hardest out of all of them to make his movie a “real” movie and that ironically only made it worse, he was too ambitious, it would have worked better as a just a big episode rather than a “movie” ala his Texas Chainsaw and Halloween episodes.

Similarly I think the failure of Space Cop killed some of RLM’s momentum, not as drastically but again you can see a clear difference in energy pre and post Space Cop, I wanna say it was post Space Cop or not long too after that they started releasing way less videos than they used to, even if in that case it was more a gradual thing.

The lesson is these guys need to just stick to web videos and forget about movies.

Dumping a shitload of time and money (probably some of his own too) would kill anyone's enthusiasm. He wanted to make features but is stuck making internet content. At least for James.

Space Cop was less of a passion project and more of an albatross for Mike. Mike and Jay just want to make crappy movies. They weren't aiming particulary high whereas James wanted to make the ultimate cult movie but ended up tripping and landing on his keys.

Mike and Jay did make a serious movie once, it was called The Recovered and it was okay.

 

[Dom Cruise]

Okay... so I had this huge response written, then I dropped my phone and it changed the page and it deleted everything I said.

But the tl;dr of it was that a) Jessi and Mike broke up and while family life just naturally changes priorities of a person's life, I think it is more a case of b) The change in the media landscape, where all the big stuff being produced are either half-baked, shitty revivals of old work (Predator, Terminator, Disney remakes), prestige movies no one cares about or exhausting franchises (Star Wars, Mavrel, DCEU, Conjuring) and the smaller stuff is the sort of weird shit Jay loves (hence why he always seems so chipper when talking about non-franchise bait, even when he doesn't like the movie that much). Mike is at a place where he enjoys The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel more than Star Trek right now. That's where he is in his life. That's where streaming has brought us. And c) I always get the feeling that Mike isn't necessarily comfortable with being the "face" of the company since he doesn't seem to like to engage online outside of the videos. It's why Jay seems to handle all the twitter and Patreon stuff.

(Sorry, guess I prefer kvetching about their media tastes since that's what they're comfortable sharing. Also I like bitching about movies)



It's funny, but I was about to suggest they give movies another go. Maybe try something a bit more earnest and less ironic than Space Cop. If necessary, get one of their writer friends to help them with a script. Too many youtuber movies pull the irony card anyways. Mike seems to like directing and it might be a nice change of pace for them. They'd get tons of kickstarter support.

To be fair I haven’t seen Space Cop yet, maybe it isn’t that bad and I did watch Feeding Frenzy once, which wasn’t bad, so maybe they haven’t totally burned that bridge yet.

Dumping a shitload of time and money (probably some of his own too) would kill anyone's enthusiasm. He wanted to make features but is stuck making internet content. At least for James.

Space Cop was less of a passion project and more of an albatross for Mike. Mike and Jay just want to make crappy movies. They weren't aiming particulary high whereas James wanted to make the ultimate cult movie but ended up tripping and landing on his keys.

Mike and Jay did make a serious movie once, it was called The Recovered and it was okay.

And as I said Feeding Frenzy wasn’t bad.

They definitely know how to not over extend themselves when it comes to a movie.

 

[BrunoMattei]

Feeding Frenzy was the best movie they've done.

 

[Rice Is Ready]

Puting out content at a weekly or biweekly pace is mentally draining even if it was/is your ideal job.

Yes watching movies and then talking about them in front of a camera has to really draining. I'm sure no one in the world would want to trade jobs.

 

[BrunoMattei]

Yes watching movies and then talking about them in front of a camera has to really draining.

It is when you're editing the episode, which is a 3 camera setup by yourself, while editing and filming other shit too WHILE trying to come up with skits and maintain the same level of quality your autistic audience expects.

 

[Man vs persistent rat]

A hobby-job is fine until you get to the point where if it were only a hobby you could put it down for a while and do something else. Faking enthusiasm for things during down-periods is AIDS for the soul, and if the audience catch on it puts your credibility at risk too. The lack of time to spend on other things also breeds resentment for this thing you used to enjoy without question, you see it in the hollow eyes of all creators of this type.

Failing to equate creative/comedy work with real work is also naive. It's not particularly fun planning, prepping, scripting things which to a viewer seem very effortless and off-the-cuff. Maybe it is a 'fun' job when you're doing actual the filming (a minute part of the job), but remaining entertaining isn't a natural talent, you need to work on it and arguably when you lose it it's gone forever.

 

[Manwithn0n0men]

Feeding Frenzy was the best movie they've done.

I mean Penn ripped off the idea for a Mr Plinkett Biopic

 

[Rice Is Ready]

It is when you're editing the episode, which is a 3 camera setup by yourself, while editing and filming other shit too WHILE trying to come up with skits and maintain the same level of quality your autistic audience expects.

That's still a dream job that they do in the comfort of their own home while drinking beer most of the time. Also they're working with their friends and have no bosses. Do you think they'd want to trade places with someone at an Amazon warehouse or McDonald's? Next you're going to tell me how hard it is to be Mr. Merokur.

 

[Man vs persistent rat]

Comparing it to one of the most famously shit jobs around isn't helping your point. Being a bin man is less miserable than working in an Amazon warehouse. A lot of what they do is similar to office work, so compare it to that.

The image they're portraying on camera is heavily edited for entertainment purposes, including the drinking. Edit together every time you laugh at a shit film that you do in a session a couple of times a month is far from your image of every day being a holiday. Any normal person can do that on a weekend. I was under the impression they did the "fun" BOTW viewing sessions in the studio, not their homes?

Many people work with their friends. Almost every friend you make outside of high school will be through work unless you have a particularly fecund social life. Having no bosses means you have to police yourself and have less job security (I made videos on Youtube for 10 years/my small media business failed looks bad on a CV), this is the opposite of pure fun.

The up-sides of what they do you aren't even mentioning - gaining skills in editing and production, gaining clout to influence people, all satisfying, but it's real work, and part of that work is giving the illusion to viewers that everything depicted is easy-going and you're all so gosh-darned passionate about everything.

 

[Rice Is Ready]

Comparing it to one of the most famously shit jobs around isn't helping your point. Being a bin man is less miserable than working in an Amazon warehouse.

The image they're portraying on camera is heavily edited for entertainment purposes, including the drinking. Edit together every time you laugh at a shit film that you do in a session a couple of times a month is far from your image of every day being a holiday. Any normal person can do that on a weekend. I was under the impression they did the "fun" BOTW viewing sessions in the studio, not their homes?

Many people work with their friends. Almost every friend you make outside of high school will be through work unless you have a particularly fecund social life. Having no bosses means you have to police yourself and have less job security (I made videos on Youtube for 10 years/my small media business failed looks bad on a CV), this is the opposite of pure fun.

Drinking beer and watching movies is the opposite of real fun? No you're thinking of a real job, those aren't fun. You will never convince me these fat fucks don't have the easiest job out there. What other job can you get blackout drunk at with no consequences? People send them rare movies for free too which they probably sell on the side for extra bonus cash. VHS tapes are worth alot of money to some people online.

 

[BrunoMattei]

I mean Penn ripped off the idea for a Mr Plinkett Biopic

Sean Penn?

 

[Man vs persistent rat]

Drinking beer and watching movies is the opposite of real fun? No you're thinking of a real job, those aren't fun. You will never convince me these fat fucks don't have the easiest job out there. What other job can you get blackout drunk at with no consequences? People send them rare movies for free too which they probably sell on the side for extra bonus cash. VHS tapes are worth alot of money to some people online.

I don't even know how to reply to this, you're being naive and wilfully ignorant of what their job involves and idealising the image they manufacture. Who gives a shit if you get drunk on camera twice a month if you're presenting it as an entertainment product? Regular people do that all the time in their free time, but you seem upset that they can briefly use it to their advantage in their video content. If anything they seem to need it to force reactions to make people believe how enjoyable the whole charade is. The rest of their time is spent scripting, planning, editing, and watching things while not getting drunk. I don't dispute that Mike might be functionally alcoholic off camera too, but that isn't fun either, it's miserable. I'm not sure why you keep equating drinking with fun, or downplaying the vastly greater amounts of work that go into making their videos than the time spent on camera.

I would describe the advantages of their job as it's somewhat creative/engaging, but they're doing it as work. Watching Deathstalker 3 while drunk is great if you don't need to do it to an unending schedule, or make an audience for your entertainment product buy into it being the most fun thing in the world despite you getting tired of this shit 5+ years ago. The fun of watching films is they're an escape from work. When your work is watching films, it degrades their entertainment value as an escape from whatever else you were doing. It's why anything fun when turned into a job will always become less fun, which from the outside is hard to understand. It is not even doing it a lot, but being forced to do it when you don't want to. You imagine it's easy to get through this, but doing it constantly will wear anybody down, as you don't 'get over' that, it makes the job less fun and more routine each successive year. You're expressing a total grass-is-greener view, the same way somebody might say "I bet working as Disneyland is great fun", and somebody stuck in the gears of content creation could easily see low-effort regular office work as a relaxing escape.

 

[Rice Is Ready]

I don't even know how to reply to this, you're being naive and wilfully ignorant of what their job involves and idealising the image they manufacture. Who gives a shit if you get drunk on camera twice a month if you're presenting it as an entertainment product? Regular people do that all the time in their free time, but you seem upset that they can briefly use it to their advantage in their video content. If anything they seem to need it to force reactions to make people believe how enjoyable the whole charade is. The rest of their time is spent scripting, planning, editing, and watching things while not getting drunk. I don't dispute that Mike might be functionally alcoholic off camera too, but that isn't fun either, it's miserable. I'm not sure why you keep equating drinking with fun, or downplaying the vastly greater amounts of work that go into making their videos than the time spent on camera.

I would describe the advantages of their job as it's somewhat creative/engaging, but they're doing it as work. Watching Deathstalker 3 while drunk is great if you don't need to do it to an unending schedule, or make an audience for your entertainment product buy into it being the most fun thing in the world despite you getting tired of this shit 5+ years ago.

You must be some RLM paypig to write multiple paragraphs in their defence. Editing a video and cracking a few jokes wow that is some back breaking work I'm surprised the guys didn't retire yet! I definitely wouldn't want to be in their position, getting free rare movies sent to me all the time by the people that pay my bills.

 

[Manwithn0n0men]

Sean Penn?

Penn Gillette

 

[BrunoMattei]

You must be some RLM paypig to write multiple paragraphs in their defence. Editing a video and cracking a few jokes wow that is some back breaking work I'm surprised the guys didn't retire yet! I definitely wouldn't want to be in their position, getting free rare movies sent to me all the time by the people that pay my bills.

Try and film a sitcom by yourself and then we'll see.