Red Letter Media

[LORD IMPERATOR]

RLM appears to be genuinely upset that one of their biggest videos ever did not age so well. Holy fragile egos, Batman.

Maybe if RLM recommended someone else other than the hack JJ Abrams to take over Star Wars film-making after Lucas left, RLM's reputation among nerds would still be secure. Anyone from Peter Jackson to Michael fucking Bay could've done a better job.

Either go full high fantasy or military science fiction and embrace the lore of the SW universe from the books, comics, and video games, or go do what the Transformers movies did and have Luke and friends blow up some new threat while some sexy redhead woman poses for the camera. The latter would get you a lot of traction in foreign markets like China.

As it stands, the first thing JJ did was render the Original Trilogy irrelevant by undoing the accomplishments of the OT heroes......offscreen. Ironically, the only movies that matter are the Prequels, because Palpatine destroying the Jedi and the Republic sticks, especially after Kylo burned down Luke's academy and the First Order vaporized the Republic capital.

So even if TLJ and ROS weren't flagrant pieces of crap, the OT, which a lot of these RLM prequel-bashers pretend to love, was reduced to the same state as Naruto filler by the opening film of JJ's new Star Wars. TFA alone did more damage to the OT than all three Prequel films......and RLM nodded in approval of it. Basically making all their complaints about how the Prequels debased Star Wars completely null and void, because in comes something that did worse, and RLM approved of it.

If anything, even Prequel hate made people appreciate the OT even more, because even Prequel haters saw the OT in a more favorable light, but reducing the events of the OT into the cinematic equivalent of anime filler is the kind of damage that the PT can never do to the film franchise, even at its worst.

So once the new Trilogy started capsizing, people started appreciating what they had before, and with the rehabilitation of the Prequels comes RLM's fall; from a once universally-accepted voice on movie criticism, to a punchline for the joke that is the Sequel Trilogy, especially since it was RLM's recommendation that doomed Disney's new trilogy.

 

[Well Intentioned]

I feel like there's 2 different Freddy vs. Jason videos or folks really need to stop hatewatching RLM.

I want to say Simon Pegg brought it up in interviews and stuff too.

Pegg, who was in a show called Spaced that also had significant criticism of the prequels, shared the Plinkett review on Twitter, which is what caused it to go viral initially.

Either go full high fantasy or military science fiction and embrace the lore of the SW universe from the books, comics, and video games, or go do what the Transformers movies did and have Luke and friends blow up some new threat while some sexy redhead woman poses for the camera. The latter would get you a lot of traction in foreign markets like China.

As it stands, the first thing JJ did was render the Original Trilogy irrelevant by undoing the accomplishments of the OT heroes......offscreen. Ironically, the only movies that matter are the Prequels, because Palpatine destroying the Jedi and the Republic sticks, especially after Kylo burned down Luke's academy and the First Order vaporized the Republic capital.

The sequel trilogy does take a lot from the books/comics, this is such a strange complaint to be making. As someone mentioned, there's a lot of plot points that are taken from the Dark Empire comics, but the notion of a resurgent Empire was also in the original EU book trilogy, and the Empire continued on as a remnant for like 20-30 years IIRC in the EU, so the notion that JJ 'rendered the OT irrelevant' is one you can also put at the feet of the EU.

Doing a 1 for 1 transfer from EU shit would never happen because of residuals, rights issues, etc. (which is 1 of 2 main reasons why they shuttered the EU, the other being continuity issues), so what we got from borrowing from the EU shit was the best it was gonna get.

 

[mlanguishi]

Brandon Tenold covers a Don Dohler movie, that reminds me of early RLM. He did Galaxy Invader. Brandon was involved in early CA, and still doesn't look to have aged at all over hardly over the last 12+ years. I wish RLM would cover these types now.

 

[Hentai-Semitism]

Just a heads up for people who might not know this, since RLM doesn't advertise it anymore - there's multiple RiffTrax/MST3K style commentaries on their Bandcamp page. There's also one on Youtube, which is their cameo in a game called High On Life.

I think I figured out why Rich had a false memory of hearing about Tums in Samurai Cop. Skip to 26:55 in the Samurai Cop commentary and listen what Like Like Stoklasa says. That commentary was released over 3 years before the Hollywood Cop video with the infamous TUMS FESTIVAL dispute (skip to 14:10).

As for the attachment: I was just listening to the Dungeons & Dragons commentary and noticed a bit that made me think they should get their eyes checked. They all saw that movie multiple times, mind you.

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

The sequel trilogy does take a lot from the books/comics, this is such a strange complaint to be making. As someone mentioned, there's a lot of plot points that are taken from the Dark Empire comics, but the notion of a resurgent Empire was also in the original EU book trilogy, and the Empire continued on as a remnant for like 20-30 years IIRC in the EU, so the notion that JJ 'rendered the OT irrelevant' is one you can also put at the feet of the EU.

Which goes to show how dumb Disney is to not learn from history. They looked at clone Palpy and Luuke Skywalker and decided to rip that off instead of saying, "That's dumb, let's not do that."

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

The sequel trilogy does take a lot from the books/comics, this is such a strange complaint to be making. As someone mentioned, there's a lot of plot points that are taken from the Dark Empire comics, but the notion of a resurgent Empire was also in the original EU book trilogy, and the Empire continued on as a remnant for like 20-30 years IIRC in the EU, so the notion that JJ 'rendered the OT irrelevant' is one you can also put at the feet of the EU.

Doing a 1 for 1 transfer from EU shit would never happen because of residuals, rights issues, etc. (which is 1 of 2 main reasons why they shuttered the EU, the other being continuity issues), so what we got from borrowing from the EU shit was the best it was gonna get.

My complaint is that they did it poorly. The resurgent Empire did crush the Galactic Alliance.......126 years after the Battle of Endor. Palpatine's spirit managed to get back to possess a clone with the help of the spirits of the Ancient Sith, and a Jedi sacrificed himself to permanently remove Palpatine's spirit as a factor. Caedus turned evil to try and stop a war, not because his uncle stupidly tried to kill him.

What they should've done is execute the same notes as the EU in a more refined way, not poorly copy aspects of it and botch the storytelling.

 

[Kharash]

As for the attachment: I was just listening to the Dungeons & Dragons commentary and noticed a bit that made me think they should get their eyes checked. They all saw that movie multiple times, mind you.

I'm very confused. This makes no sense no matter how I wrap my mind around it. And they all just agree with him too. Aren't Mike and Rich big enough nerds to know the dwarf/elf context as well?
That said I'm reminded that this same commentary track has Mike telling his DnD story about his lowly mage killing some big bad with a dart which is pretty hilarious. Worth a listen.

 

[Akerman]

Just a heads up for people who might not know this, since RLM doesn't advertise it anymore - there's multiple RiffTrax/MST3K style commentaries on their Bandcamp page. There's also one on Youtube, which is their cameo in a game called High On Life.

I liked those, it seems like they've largely stopped making them. There is a good one for Space Cop too that's not on the Bandcamp which was included on the Blu-Ray, meaning most haven't heard it. So if you are looking for a "new" one to listen to I recommend it. It's better than the movie itself.

 

[Flexo]

This is 100% wrong, so perfectly incorrect it's an inversion of reality. The whole reason the Plinkett review took off was that it criticized Phantom Menace in ways that went beyond Jar Jar and midichlorians. The bloated action sequences, the logical inconsistencies in the story, the incredibly stupid decisions the characters make. When Plinkett highlights stuff about Jar Jar, it was to play into an antipathy that had existed since the moment the film was released. By the time the review dropped, hatred for Jar Jar was not only well established, it was essentially a dead horse.

Yeah. Some of us remember the south park episode which predated plinkett.

 

[StarkRavingMad]

The OG Star Wars Trilogy used to be some of my favorite movies ever (I know, I'm so unique lol). I even told people that they were among my favorite movies ever even during the disappointment of the Prequels.

What Disney has done to Star Wars, though ... Man. I haven't watched the OG Trilogy in several years (probably in even a decade at this point) because the Sequel Trilogy just sucked the life out of the entire IP, like a vampire.

My love for Star Wars is pretty much a flatline these days. Disney Star Wars is more guilty of the sins of the Prequels, and yet RLM won't go scorched earth on them. At the same time, though, if what Disney has done is at least better than the Prequels, then why are they so butthurt about people "blaming" them for JJ Abrams?

 

[Flexo]

What they should've done is execute the same notes as the EU in a more refined way, not poorly copy aspects of it and botch the storytelling.

I would have paid a lot of money to watch Disney go full Yuuzhan Vong.

 

[Protistology]

I would have paid a lot of money to watch Disney go full Yuuzhan Vong.

I've rather have a Chad Cade Skywalker movie.

 

[BlueSpark]

Just a heads up for people who might not know this, since RLM doesn't advertise it anymore - there's multiple RiffTrax/MST3K style commentaries on their Bandcamp page. There's also one on Youtube, which is their cameo in a game called High On Life.

I think I figured out why Rich had a false memory of hearing about Tums in Samurai Cop. Skip to 26:55 in the Samurai Cop commentary and listen what Like Like Stoklasa says. That commentary was released over 3 years before the Hollywood Cop video with the infamous TUMS FESTIVAL dispute (skip to 14:10).

As for the attachment: I was just listening to the Dungeons & Dragons commentary and noticed a bit that made me think they should get their eyes checked. They all saw that movie multiple times, mind you.

I'm very confused. This makes no sense no matter how I wrap my mind around it. And they all just agree with him too. Aren't Mike and Rich big enough nerds to know the dwarf/elf context as well?
That said I'm reminded that this same commentary track has Mike telling his DnD story about his lowly mage killing some big bad with a dart which is pretty hilarious. Worth a listen.

The irony of these virtue-signaling shitlibs having so little interaction with black people that they think anyone darker than a sheet of white paper is black is pretty funny though.

 

[I'm a Silly]

Just a heads up for people who might not know this, since RLM doesn't advertise it anymore - there's multiple RiffTrax/MST3K style commentaries on their Bandcamp page. There's also one on Youtube, which is their cameo in a game called High On Life.

I think I figured out why Rich had a false memory of hearing about Tums in Samurai Cop. Skip to 26:55 in the Samurai Cop commentary and listen what Like Like Stoklasa says. That commentary was released over 3 years before the Hollywood Cop video with the infamous TUMS FESTIVAL dispute (skip to 14:10).

As for the attachment: I was just listening to the Dungeons & Dragons commentary and noticed a bit that made me think they should get their eyes checked. They all saw that movie multiple times, mind you.

The only thing they got wrong was referring to a dwarf as an orc. They knew the elf was black.

 

[Well Intentioned]

Which goes to show how dumb Disney is to not learn from history. They looked at clone Palpy and Luuke Skywalker and decided to rip that off instead of saying, "That's dumb, let's not do that."

Dark Empire was kinda cool because it read almost like an alternate Return of the Jedi. But I think a lot of that was just because, once upon a time, people were starved for new Star Wars stuff, but, yeah.

I can't wait til they start mining shit from late stage Star Wars EU with the Vong or whatever they were called.

My complaint is that they did it poorly. The resurgent Empire did crush the Galactic Alliance.......126 years after the Battle of Endor. Palpatine's spirit managed to get back to possess a clone with the help of the spirits of the Ancient Sith, and a Jedi sacrificed himself to permanently remove Palpatine's spirit as a factor. Caedus turned evil to try and stop a war, not because his uncle stupidly tried to kill him.

You had similar shit going on with Thrawn nearly beating the shit out of the New Republic. Or Admiral Daala. Or whomever. The Empire remained a very credible threat for literal decades, much as they were in the sequel trilogies.

What they should've done is execute the same notes as the EU in a more refined way, not poorly copy aspects of it and botch the storytelling.

Like I said, I don't think that was ever going to happen, with the EU. But, uh, yeah, I agree they shouldn't have done a bad job.

All I'm saying is that the criticism that the sequel trilogy 'undid' the OT is something that could be said about the EU. Disney was never going to just rehash the better parts of the EU. They spent billions of dollars to acquire the property, they absolutely were going to want to put their own stamp on it (and yes, it was complete shit, no disagreement.)

 

[Karamanlis]

There are some fans of the Friday the 13th movies who appreciate the man who originally played Jason. It's not "entitled" to want to see the OG Jason actor get his curtain call like Englund did. The hell, Jay? lol.

This is rather irrelevant, but I am autistic and I must sperg. Jason has been played by like nine or ten different actors over the years, and Kane Hodder is far from the OG. Hodder didn't show up until Part 7! But he is the most well known and beloved Jason actor, and he's the only actor to play Jason in more than one movie. He played Jason in Parts 7, 8, 9, and 10. It seemed like he owned the role at that point, and when Freddy vs. Jason was announced, people just naturally assumed it would be Kane Hodder in the role. Supposedly the director of FvJ didn't like that Hodder was only a few inches taller than Robert Englund. He wanted someone for the role that would be massively bigger than Englund.

But I do understand why some people were disappointed, and Jay can go fuck himself with his elitist comments.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

You had similar shit going on with Thrawn nearly beating the shit out of the New Republic. Or Admiral Daala. Or whomever. The Empire remained a very credible threat for literal decades, much as they were in the sequel trilogies.

But the Empire and the New Republic had parity. Han even says in the Thrawn Trilogy's beginning that both the New Republic and Empire were at equal strength, and the former fought harder. The Empire didn't snuff out the New Rpeublic/Galactic Alliance until 130 years after the first movie.

All I'm saying is that the criticism that the sequel trilogy 'undid' the OT is something that could be said about the EU. Disney was never going to just rehash the better parts of the EU. They spent billions of dollars to acquire the property, they absolutely were going to want to put their own stamp on it (and yes, it was complete shit, no disagreement.)

Er, no. Not even with the EU. The Jedi return for good, which means ROTJ's ending sticks. In fact, when the Empire crushes the Alliance, it turns into a messy war over the Empire's throne, with a Jedi faction and a Sith faction having equal power and sending armies of Stormtroopers and Star Destroyers against each other.

Dark Empire was kinda cool because it read almost like an alternate Return of the Jedi. But I think a lot of that was just because, once upon a time, people were starved for new Star Wars stuff, but, yeah.

I can't wait til they start mining shit from late stage Star Wars EU with the Vong or whatever they were called.

That has already begun. The new Thrawn storyline is practically Heir to the Empire; they even name-drop it.

RLM whined that they don't care about the books. Well, the books are now the future of the franchise.

 

[Flexo]

I've rather have a Chad Cade Skywalker movie.

NO! PUT DOWN THAT MONKEY'S PAW....

Fuuuuuuuu-

 

[mlanguishi]

My love for Star Wars is pretty much a flatline these days. Disney Star Wars is more guilty of the sins of the Prequels, and yet RLM won't go scorched earth on them. At the same time, though, if what Disney has done is at least better than the Prequels, then why are they so butthurt about people "blaming" them for JJ Abrams?

All that same, I'll tell a bit of a story. I had the Definitive edition laserdisc and a 5.1 Dolby setup back the day with an SHVS input. I showed my mom's friend's much younger kids at the time those movies, they fell asleep in ANH. Flat out hated it. Gave it a few days while they were around, they were 5 or 6 and went ok, show them ESB. They started bored, but woke up with AT-AT battle, then Yoda they were all like OMG YODA. We went back and watched all 3 over again and they were enthralled. I tried to get their mom to watch Jurassic Park then too, but they were 'too young' for it and I respected that, even though the boy had a JP shirt the whole time.

It was literal magic. Right there. Stuff I didn't get to see when they were new, but showed them in the 90s. I had another very personal experience later on with ESB and ROTJ with someone else. Those movies 'mattered'.

Not many will have that level with the prequels, but I just saw ROTS with my mom again and I did feel a bit of that classic youth. It's a good damn movie.

Nobody will have anything of that with Disney Star Wars, ever. At BEST the early TFA scenes with Rey had a bit of it, maybe a bit of bad guy Kylo, but they blew it.

Now? I am going to have to upgrade my system to full 4k and all to rewatch 1-6 eventually. I don't think I need to see 7-9. Maybe, maybe 7 and the space battles in Rogue One. Maybe.

 

[StarkRavingMad]

All that same, I'll tell a bit of a story. I had the Definitive edition laserdisc and a 5.1 Dolby setup back the day with an SHVS input. I showed my mom's friend's much younger kids at the time those movies, they fell asleep in ANH. Flat out hated it. Gave it a few days while they were around, they were 5 or 6 and went ok, show them ESB. They started bored, but woke up with AT-AT battle, then Yoda they were all like OMG YODA. We went back and watched all 3 over again and they were enthralled. I tried to get their mom to watch Jurassic Park then too, but they were 'too young' for it and I respected that, even though the boy had a JP shirt the whole time.

It was literal magic. Right there. Stuff I didn't get to see when they were new, but showed them in the 90s. I had another very personal experience later on with ESB and ROTJ with someone else. Those movies 'mattered'.

Not many will have that level with the prequels, but I just saw ROTS with my mom again and I did feel a bit of that classic youth. It's a good damn movie.

Nobody will have anything of that with Disney Star Wars, ever. At BEST the early TFA scenes with Rey had a bit of it, maybe a bit of bad guy Kylo, but they blew it.

Now? I am going to have to upgrade my system to full 4k and all to rewatch 1-6 eventually. I don't think I need to see 7-9. Maybe, maybe 7 and the space battles in Rogue One. Maybe.

Star Wars has always been a constant in my life. I was so young when I saw the OGs for the first time that I don't even remember the first time I saw them. My parents had both missed out on seeing the trilogy during their original theatrical runs (turns out that being parents to many young kids and babies takes up a lot of your time, lol). When they came out on VHS for the first time ever, though, my parents immediately bought them thinking, "Ah, what the hell, let's get them for the kids" and then they ended up loving those movies themselves, thus making them big movies that my family and I had all watched together countless times.

I will agree with RLM about one thing: Jay once said something along the lines of "Remember when Star Wars was just known as 3 good movies that everyone liked?" Yeah ... I am actually old enough to remember that time. Good times. One thing that Lucas understood about his own creation was that Star Wars needed to feel special; like an event that doesn't happen often. Even with every Prequel release, it felt like an event. Now, Star Wars is just ... A constant flow of (shitty) content. None of it feels special anymore, and it has totally cheapened the IP ... Cheapened it far more than the Prequels ever did.

One thing I find funny about RLM's criticism towards Disney Star Wars is that they went the hardest on Rogue One by far. They tore that movie a new asshole. It's funny because Rogue One is by far the best thing from Disney Star Wars altogether. Granted, that's not saying much, but it's literally the only Disney Star Wars movie that still kinda felt like Star Wars.