Red Letter Media

[BetterFuckChuck]

Isn't that what we got in the prequels? I'm starting to get pronoun confusion.

Plinkett thought the war should be a literal planet that births clones out its ass and they attack the republic until democracy is destroyed and then the Emperor can magically make them go away with fascism

 

[Idiotron]

The question is though, would anyone sit down to watch a 47 minute youtube video of me outlining my personal "Rings of Power but not a fucking trainwreck" plotline and narrative and discussing it with the amazon delivery man I kidnapped for the occasion?

Yes, they would.
There is an entire industry for this.
People have full time jobs doing it, some made millions doing this kind of shit.
Also, a kidnapped delivery man to bounce off of sounds like a neat idea.
Just don't make it like a Nostalgia Critic skit, put in some more effort.

 

[Captain Syrup]

Isn't that what we got in the prequels?

There’s this vague, lingering question that I never felt was addressed: why exactly Jango Fett? You had to dive into a video game to get the real story, and even then, it’s just assumed that Boba Fett's popularity in the fandom is somehow the key.

I find myself agreeing with Mike Stoklasa: the whole Saga was designed by committee with Lucas sort of giving his passive stamp of approval afterward, like, “Yeah, that’s fine.”

Rings hollow when Lucas talks about Disney not reading his "notes". It’s like, really? The guy who didn’t seem to care about the coherence of his own saga wants to cry foul about the studio not following his vision? Because, let’s be real, Lucas always saw Star Wars as a vessel to sell toys.

 

[Shartavius]

Nobody goes to RLM to get the newest review of a new movie. They go to RLM to hear what the boys think of a movie

They go to hear what their boyfriends think of a movie.

 

[frozen_runner]

They go to hear what their boyfriends think of a movie.

Only Rich Evans

 

[Protistology]

I do think he had a point about the characters being flipped in Attack of the Clones. Especially the way George kind of set things up it would have been better to have Padme be the one seducing Anakin.

But as anyone who has done creative work, if you really want to succeed at it, you have to get to the point you throw out 100 ideas so you can pick out the good 1. Or pick out parts of 3 mediocre ideas that combine into something way better. Everybody likes to think they can just toss out the best idea on the first try but that kind of thinking gets you Melvin, brother of the Joker.

Star Trek II was a blend of five scripts. The director and producers read all three, made a list of their favorite things, and the director wrote the sixth script.

 

[Judge Holden]

Just don't make it like a Nostalgia Critic skit, put in some more effort.

Can I turn it into my own self insert superhero power fantasy where I personally save the planet every episode while lecturing chuds and decidedly not talking about the History of Power Rangers until I am ready?

Plinkett thought the war should be a literal planet that births clones out its ass and they attack the republic until democracy is destroyed and then the Emperor can magically make them go away with fascism

That was a decent percentage of star wars nurd consensus pre AOTC given how obliquely the Clone Wars were mentioned in ANH, though frankly the concept would have worked/failed to work just as much if Clones were fighting against the Republic as it did when they were fighting for the Republic as the prequels failed in scripting and directing as opposed to the general story and character concepts

With regards to mine own "I coulda done better" tism, I mentioned on the main Star Wars thread a week or two back that the Clone Troopers should have been a lot less blandly cuddly seeming from the getgo, and acted more in line with what "genetically engineered killers trained from birth to carry out their orders mercilessly and efficiently" would actually act like (i.e. far more competent and brutal Proto Stormtroopers) with the Jedi being assigned to them as much to hold them back and keep them from slaughtering entire cities/planets to take out small CIS garrisons as to lead them, which accordingly results in the Jedi becoming the public scapegoats for the excesses and atrocities they are unable to prevent, just as Big Nigga Sheev planned.

 

[Vibralldo]

You had to dive into a video game to get the real story

The video game in question:

 

[Judge Holden]

The video game in question:
View attachment 6974713

Still would have been objectively better than having the prologue of the movie be a fucking fortnite exclusive...

...jesus fucking christ I still laugh like a nigger in church when I remember they actually fucking did that

 

[Flexo]

Plinkett thought the war should be a literal planet that births clones out its ass and they attack the republic until democracy is destroyed and then the Emperor can magically make them go away with fascism

I legit do not recall that in the reviews. I don't suppose you remember which of the 3 it was in?

There’s this vague, lingering question that I never felt was addressed: why exactly Jango Fett? You had to dive into a video game to get the real story, and even then, it’s just assumed that Boba Fett's popularity in the fandom is somehow the key

Wasn't there like a thing where he won a deathmatch or something to prove he was the strongest?

Of course the whole thing is silly as only a Vietnam hating hippie can dream up, because any sane military would diversify. (Wookie ground troops, human tacticians, whoever as pilots, etc)

 

[BetterFuckChuck]

Can I turn it into my own self insert superhero power fantasy where I personally save the planet every episode while lecturing chuds and decidedly not talking about the History of Power Rangers until I am ready?


That was a decent percentage of star wars nurd consensus pre AOTC given how obliquely the Clone Wars were mentioned in ANH, though frankly the concept would have worked/failed to work just as much if Clones were fighting against the Republic as it did when they were fighting for the Republic as the prequels failed in scripting and directing as opposed to the general story and character concepts

With regards to mine own "I coulda done better" tism, I mentioned on the main Star Wars thread a week or two back that the Clone Troopers should have been a lot less blandly cuddly seeming from the getgo, and acted more in line with what "genetically engineered killers trained from birth to carry out their orders mercilessly and efficiently" would actually act like (i.e. far more competent and brutal Proto Stormtroopers) with the Jedi being assigned to them as much to hold them back and keep them from slaughtering entire cities/planets to take out small CIS garrisons as to lead them, which accordingly results in the Jedi becoming the public scapegoats for the excesses and atrocities they are unable to prevent, just as Big Nigga Sheev planned.

i always felt the hate chip thing was garbo as a retcon. the point of the clones shouldve been that working for a failing democracy versus a fascist dictatorship was very much purely aesthetic for the clones at that point

I legit do not recall that in the reviews. I don't suppose you remember which of the 3 it was in?

i think it was AotC, 70 percent chance it was. maybe a 30 percent chance it was RotS

 

[ShiftyBoi]

Plinkett thought the war should be a literal planet that births clones out its ass and they attack the republic until democracy is destroyed and then the Emperor can magically make them go away with fascism

Spoiler: AOTC sperging

Honestly a big problem with AOTC is that Kamino essentially disappears from the series plot as soon as Obi Wan leaves to follow Jango.
The Kaminoans don't consider using the private army they control to maybe break up the fight between the guy they assume they're making the army for and the independent mercenary that they cloned the entire army from. You know, two guys who for all they know have no reason to fight?

And then a huge private army appears and promises to fight for the republic, and the republic doesn't use any of the bureaucracy that the movies seem to be obsessed with to investigate where this army came from.

Mike and Jay especially have pointed out that a huge problem with the prequels is that the Jedi ask no questions or give any deeper thought to what's going on. It's especially bad in AOTC, which should be the lynchpin of the prequels plot but has the largest leaps in logic and shitty character decisions out of any of them. Like despite the jedi being able to read minds and sense emotions they can't sense any malcontent from this group of faceless guys who insist on fighting for them.

because any sane military would diversify. (Wookie ground troops, human tacticians, whoever as pilots, etc)

That's something that always drove me nuts about the prequels. All these fucking planets, even confirmed warrior races, no one can spare any troops to deal with this droid army that's already proven to be incompetent and mostly ineffective. Like what do they think blasters and guards and ships with shields are for if they can't come up with a way to defend themselves.

It feels like George mixed up "Democracy" with pacifism.

 

[Mola Ram]

Of course the whole thing is silly as only a Vietnam hating hippie can dream up, because any sane military would diversify. (Wookie ground troops, human tacticians, whoever as pilots, etc)

That's just ignorance of tactics (and it is egregious considering this war covers hundreds if not thousands of possible landscapes). The real hippy-dippy nonsense is portraying the total futility of warfare by having one man control both sides, man, look how hopeless it is, man, what a bummer, right, war is just a con job, man, nobody really wins but the square old man in the robe, man and failing to realize that such a scenario means there is no drama or side the audience can root for at all.

And then a huge private army appears and promises to fight for the republic, and the republic doesn't use any of the bureaucracy that the movies seem to be obsessed with to investigate where this army came from.

Mike and Jay especially have pointed out that a huge problem with the prequels is that the Jedi ask no questions or give any deeper thought to what's going on. It's especially bad in AOTC, which should be the lynchpin of the prequels plot but has the largest leaps in logic and shitty character decisions out of any of them. Like despite the jedi being able to read minds and sense emotions they can't sense any malcontent from this group of faceless guys who insist on fighting for them.

Here's what always killed me about the clone army: the clones themselves come from the Kaminoans. Ok, cool. So who's making the millions of weapons for them; the thousands of ships and transports and fighters; who's churning out the prototype Star Destroyers we see as early as the Battle of Geonosis? All the heavy manufacturing is on Dooku's side! Of course, as I said, Palpatine is pulling the strings of both armies, but we don't even get the pat explanation that the Republic is funding both armies, just like in DC, man!

 

[Neo-Nazi Rich Evans]

That was a decent percentage of star wars nurd consensus pre AOTC given how obliquely the Clone Wars were mentioned in ANH,

that was me, growing up watching the original trilogy i always thought the clone wars was a war between clones and the republic. and i still think it makes more sense than what george did in the prequels.

Here's what always killed me about the clone army: the clones themselves come from the Kaminoans. Ok, cool. So who's making the millions of weapons for them; the thousands of ships and transports and fighters; who's churning out the prototype Star Destroyers we see as early as the Battle of Geonosis? All the heavy manufacturing is on Dooku's side!

it isnt inconceivable that if the kaminoans have the capability to raise such a large clone army then they either did the manufacturing themselves or they contracted with another planet to do it for them.

Honestly a big problem with AOTC is that Kamino essentially disappears from the series plot as soon as Obi Wan leaves to follow Jango.

same. always wanted obi wan to actually find out more about the clones than he did. he was suppose to investigate the clone army, and the jedi counsel seemed to be interested in finding out where it came from, but as soon as he see jango the investigation is over and we never hear form it again. the next thing we know about clones is yoda showing up with a clone army to rescue obi-wan. so yoda went from being concerned about the clones to leading them into battle, and nothing in between was ever explained. nor was there any concern ever shown again about the clones, where they came from or anything like that.

 

[Captain Syrup]

None of these plot holes would matter if Senator Palpatine—who was the opposite of charismatic—had been shown stirring up the masses. The guy couldn't rally a toddler to eat cake.

Looking back, introducing him as Chancellor so early was a mistake. I buy him as this behind-the-scenes player. What we needed, though, were more scenes of him stoking fear, exploiting chaos, and climbing to the top by shoveling dirt in the Jedi Temple's face.

 

[Mola Ram]

hat was me, growing up watching the original trilogy i always thought the clone wars was a war between clones and the republic. and i still think it makes more sense than what george did in the prequels.

The rumors when I was a wee Gen-X'er was that the prequel trilogy wasn't going to be called Star Wars at all, but "Clone Wars," and the clones themselves would be an Invasion of the Body Snatchers situation where paranoia reigned and you were never sure if your best friend was still your best friend or if he'd been replaced by a clone thanks to whatever shadowy force controlled them. Some of this made it into the EU; the cloned Emperors and Joruus C'baoth and "Luuke" were clearly the more traditional "evil doppelganger" style clones than endless disposable troops.

it isnt inconceivable that if the kaminoans have the capability to raise such a large clone army then they either did the manufacturing themselves or they contracted with another planet to do it for them.

The Kaminoans are only shown to have a water world, which is probably unsuitable to manufacturing, and as for third parties, anyone who can make such stuff appears to be a member of the Confederacy. I'm not saying you're wrong, it's just a very weird thing for Lucas to gloss over when he went to such lengths to put all the masters of technology on the other side. Having some faction like the Techno Union playing both sides of the fence could have made for an interesting plot point, and at least would have given the CIS more development than "none at all."

nor was there any concern ever shown again about the clones, where they came from or anything like that.

Most maddening of all was the dangling plot thread of Sifo-Dyas, who ordered the clones and was completely dropped. Was he Sidious? A phony identity for Qui-Gon? I know this is answered somewhere in the ancillary material, but that's one of the prequels' biggest problems: relegating crucial details like that (and Grievous's origins, just to pick another example) to tie-in fiction, cartoons, video games, etc. etc. You didn't need any of that for the OT, but by the time he made the prequels Lucas had learned the merchandising was a license to print money.

I know people don't like to hear it, but in this aspect the prequels were almost as cynical as the Disney take on the franchise. It just wasn't quite as thyroidal.

 

[Neo-Nazi Rich Evans]

and Grievous's origins

that always bugged me. he is just dropped into the movie and it is treated as if the audience already knows exactly who he is. he never gets an introduction or explanation of who he is. he is a major character for the separatist but nowhere does george really explain who is he.

The Kaminoans are only shown to have a water world, which is probably unsuitable to manufacturing, and as for third parties, anyone who can make such stuff appears to be a member of the Confederacy. I'm not saying you're wrong, it's just a very weird thing for Lucas to gloss over when he went to such lengths to put all the masters of technology on the other side. Having some faction like the Techno Union playing both sides of the fence could have made for an interesting plot point, and at least would have given the CIS more development than "none at all."

i have a few thoughts. while i agree a water planet is unsuitable for manufacturing, i can think of three things:

1. they use their advanced technology to do it, either under water, or in one of their floating cities like is shown
2. they do orbital manufacturing.
3. they have another non water planet world they do it on.

as for other groups doing it, my thoughts is that palaptine is behind it, so therefore the kaminoans could have some secret contract with the techno union or the genosians. but i also agree, it is weird that lucas left all of that out. who is behind it all is part of the mystery obi wan was suppose to find out and lucas just dropped all of that.

 

[Mola Ram]

i have a few thoughts. while i agree a water planet is unsuitable for manufacturing, i can think of three things:

1. they use their advanced technology to do it, either under water, or in one of their floating cities like is shown
2. they do orbital manufacturing.
3. they have another non water planet world they do it on.

I don't think they have another planet, otherwise hiding their existence in the archives would have been more difficult, but orbital manufacturing probably leaves a small enough footprint. They also could have another planet in the same system -- I forget if the story conflates "system" with "planet," which Star Wars does a lot -- but it's certainly possible.

It's probably stupid to get hung up on details like this. Lucas was always more concerned with broad strokes and symbolism than he was hard logistics: the Kaminoans make their clones on a water world because water is the source of life, etc., but those broad strokes make untangling the details of this war we're supposed to be invested in more difficult than it should be. And like I said, stuffing those details in other products was all marketing.

 

[Flexo]

i think it was AotC, 70 percent chance it was. maybe a 30 percent chance it was RotS

Queued up and ready to check.

Sheev Talks also had a great video breaking down how AOTC is so bad - especially with the mystery plot.

That's just ignorance of tactics (and it is egregious considering this war covers hundreds if not thousands of possible landscapes). The real hippy-dippy nonsense is portraying the total futility of warfare by having one man control both sides, man, look how hopeless it is, man, what a bummer, right, war is just a con job, man, nobody really wins but the square old man in the robe, man and failing to realize that such a scenario means there is no drama or side the audience can root for at all.

You're not wrong there. This is part of my evidence for Lucas being a bit autistic. You can kind of see in his stuff a clear delineation between good and bad - and part of that is that good people always do good things. Which I normally don't mind, but it also means he never writes or conceives of something like unintended consequences. Above all the bad guys can never have any valid points or sound logic to their reasonings.

The prequels make it even weirder because they show a Jedi council at the height of their power - and then with a few decades the Jedi are mocked as a hokey and fake religion. Even though within the lifespans of many characters doing the mocking they were leading a war. (Seriously Luke has heard of the Clone Wars but has no idea what Jedi are?) Lucas wanted to show an Eden that fell, but he couldn't figure out how to do it without violating some of his core principles and paradigms (hence why it was up to a lot of other writers to try and salvage the prequel era). Really we should have seen a Republic that was dying, and a Jedi Order that was as well. One that pinned hopes on Anakin as possibly reviving them and giving them new life - just like maybe the Republic pinned hopes on Palpatine to revive it. Only to have both betray and bring them down into an Empire. We should have seen a society teetering on the edge, finally pushed over the Clone Wars.

The rumors when I was a wee Gen-X'er was that the prequel trilogy wasn't going to be called Star Wars at all, but "Clone Wars," and the clones themselves would be an Invasion of the Body Snatchers situation where paranoia reigned and you were never sure if your best friend was still your best friend or if he'd been replaced by a clone thanks to whatever shadowy force controlled them. Some of this made it into the EU; the cloned Emperors and Joruus C'baoth and "Luuke" were clearly the more traditional "evil doppelganger" style clones than endless disposable troops.

I know I still have my old SW Encyclopedia around somewhere if you want me to look it up. (The one that says the difference between a Jedi/Sith master and a knight is that the former have given up the lightsaber and prefer to completely rely upon the Force.)

Most maddening of all was the dangling plot thread of Sifo-Dyas, who ordered the clones and was completely dropped. Was he Sidious? A phony identity for Qui-Gon? I know this is answered somewhere in the ancillary material, but that's one of the prequels' biggest problems: relegating crucial details like that (and Grievous's origins, just to pick another example) to tie-in fiction, cartoons, video games, etc. etc. You didn't need any of that for the OT, but by the time he made the prequels Lucas had learned the merchandising was a license to print money.

This is legit real, but Sifo was originally SUPPOSED to be Palpatine. I think he was even going to go with the alias Sidious. But a typo (or something) caused Lucas to land on Sifo-Dyas which he liked so much as a name he just made a whole new character for it.

Even though it still could have been an alias for Palapatine. It's not like a galactic mastermind trying to control all the strings might have multiple names or anything.

(Yes this is my other proof that George is autistic.)

 

[Captain Syrup]

Lucas was always more concerned with broad strokes and symbolism than he was hard logistics: the Kaminoans make their clones on a water world because water is the source of life, etc.,

Imagine if Boss Nass was the mastermind behind the Clone Army the whole time.