Red Letter Media

[BIG BILL HELL'S]

If canon doesn't matter, then it's not "interconnected" - that's what canon means. If you remove it, there's no connection. There's a reason nobody thinks Citizen Kane, Back to the Future, and Nightmare on Elm Street are all part of a grand cinematic universe (unless they're on TVTropes)

Wouldn't it be great if they were, though?

 

[Milwaukee Macho Man]

Just a reminder that Mike and Rich had an out with Star Trek and it was called The Orville. Then they complained about The Orville and stuck with Star Trek: Picard.

Orville being better than Picard doesn't make it good though.

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

Orville being better than Picard doesn't make it good though.

If they're willing to accept trash when there's an alternative, it's on them for watching trash.

That, and Orville is good, especially for those who like Voyager.

 

[Stab You in the Back]

Rich giving Obi-Wan a pass because he hates the prequels is peak toxic fandom. Anita Sarkeesian was right.

Orville being better than Picard doesn't make it good though.

The Orville has a couple good episodes sprinkled among its three seasons. I really liked the episode this year where they went to high school and met a woman dressed as Tron.

 

[Internet War Criminal]

The Orville is alright, I can see why Mike and Rich wouldn't enjoy it as much as Star Trek, it's not hard science or camp enough for them

 

[Newman's Lovechild]

Again, I enjoyed this episode, I had a few laughs like I did with the last one, but I feel that of the trio, only Jay 'I don't get sci fi' Bauman could come up with a take like "Luke thought about killing Kylo and that's the reason all the manbabies hate TLJ!"

A couple times I found myself wishing this was just Rich and Mike reviewing the show, like they did with Picard. No matter whether they agreed with prescribed culture war doctrine or not.

 

[Doctor of Autism]

I love Red Letter Media but they have some of the dumbest takes on Star Wars mainly Jay's complaint about why people disliked TLJ and Rich complaining about Luke in Return of the Jedi being a Jedi cultist despite the fact he went against what Obi Wan and Yoda wanted.

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

I love Red Letter Media but they have some of the dumbest takes on Star Wars mainly Jay's complaint about why people disliked TLJ and Rich complaining about Luke in Return of the Jedi being a Jedi cultist despite the fact he went against what Obi Wan and Yoda wanted.

I said this in the Star Wars thread too, but it bears repeating. Rich is an atheist and the OT's core theme is faith. Luke's entire arc--and it really is amazing how it doesn't feel repetitive--is him becoming more spiritual, ending with him believing that his father can be redeemed despite all evidence to the contrary. Rich just find Luke a boring asshole because Luke becoming more controlled also means he speaks in monotone.

 

[ToddleDoddle]

They're not even accomplishing that.

I can throw on a random film from India and have a better shot of being entertained than most stuff coming out of major studios.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=dSxGAoWOxuk

Watched that movie a few days ago. If you can tolerate Indian cinema tropes, it's pretty enjoyable.

 

[Well Intentioned]

Rich giving Obi-Wan a pass because he hates the prequels is peak toxic fandom. Anita Sarkeesian was right.

For me, Kenobi was boring with a couple of interesting flashes here and there, but it suffers from basically what I call Disneyisms.

Shit like child Leia being chased around by full grown adults or suddenly becoming an idiot (when she was depicted as being insightful and wise beyond her years) because the Plot Demands It are classic Disney vibes and I don't care for it.

The prequels just don't really work on a fundamental level. I have a bit of fondness for them because it's all spectacle and JK2: Jedi Outcast was one of my favorite games growing up, but they aren't particularly well done movies outside of the CGI.

RLM in general tends to be pretty consistent on preferring well-crafted story over spectacle (although all of them have their 'guilty pleasures') so I can see how Kenobi, which is generally stronger narratively, is preferred over the prequels.

I don't think the luke-warmest of endorsements is really meant to be construed as anything but just a reluctance that this is what Star Wars is nowadays. I tended to get the vibes that they're just defeated battered wives.

 

[Bush King]

Just a reminder that Mike and Rich had an out with Star Trek and it was called The Orville. Then they complained about The Orville and stuck with Star Trek: Picard.

I said this in the Star Wars thread too, but it bears repeating. Rich is an atheist and the OT's core theme is faith. Luke's entire arc--and it really is amazing how it doesn't feel repetitive--is him becoming more spiritual, ending with him believing that his father can be redeemed despite all evidence to the contrary. Rich just find Luke a boring asshole because Luke becoming more controlled also means he speaks in monotone.

Mike said he liked the Orville and Rich thinks the spiritual aspect of Star Wars was what originally made it unique. The issue is that RotJ turned it from relatively normal people with super powers and strong moral values to a Catholic nunnery. Uncle Ben was not emotionless. He had self-control, but he wasn't a flat line. RotJ with the Emperor introduced the Dark Side = anger/passion/hate, and then TPM expanded it into Dark Side = using emotions at all. ANH and TESB had room for people who used their emotions. You can use hate as a strong motivator, just don't let it control you. TESB had Vader's lust for power and his anger clashing with Luke's untempered love for his friends and ethical crusading. Thomas Aquinas was quite clear that virtues are not extremes the same way that sin is- temperance is not the opposite of gluttony, but a middle ground. Sex, food, drugs, these are not inherently evil and are basic needs or pleasures of life. The Catholic and Anglican Churches view alcohol as inherently good, with beer and wine specifically being singled out compared to spirits. A lot was also made of Ben and Yoda in the first two films being near-ascetic and outsiders of society, extrapolated to the entire concept of Jedi. The issue is that they were hiding from Imperial troops, not intentionally trying to live lives that were virtuous through ascetic contemplation. By the time of RotJ, being a Jedi means having no emotions, to the point that Luke forgoes self-defense. It's fine in the context of that one scene, but as always, George takes one line or one action or one scene and then ten years later expands it as a panacea for the entire concept.

 

[TVB]

I still love The Orville, even if it's not as good as the likes of Star Trek: Next Gen.

But now for my thoughts, I'm really disappointed, yet unsurprised that RLM now had turn into simps for Disney (even after shitting all over Paramount with the Picard series and all). It feels uncanny, given that they've said their peace on the prequels and any of the Disney-era movies.

 

[Internet War Criminal]

Did we all watch the same re:views?

They literally went 'Well I guess it wasn't total shit, I mean I didn't want to kill myself and it wasn't as bad as the other shit they've made, you could probably make a decent 2 hour movies out of it' and people are fucking airing out their vaginas lady penises screaming about how they sold out to the mouse and it's the end of RLM when they spend most of the time in both reviews just shitting on star wars in general saying that nothing made sense and it would have been better if nothing had been made after the original trilogy.

as I said:

This thread attracts the worst fucking morons.

 

[Doctor of Autism]

Did we all watch the same re:views?

They literally went 'Well I guess it wasn't total shit, I mean I didn't want to kill myself and it wasn't as bad as the other shit they've made, you could probably make a decent 2 hour movies out of it' and people are fucking airing out their vaginas lady penises screaming about how they sold out to the mouse and it's the end of RLM when they spend most of the time in both reviews just shitting on star wars in general saying that nothing made sense and it would have been better if nothing had been made after the original trilogy.

It becomes even sillier when people seem to forget that RLM don't really give a shit about Star Wars that much and are apathetic towards it.

 

[Tor Lugosi]

Did we all watch the same re:views?

They literally went 'Well I guess it wasn't total shit, I mean I didn't want to kill myself and it wasn't as bad as the other shit they've made, you could probably make a decent 2 hour movies out of it' and people are fucking airing out their vaginas lady penises screaming about how they sold out to the mouse and it's the end of RLM when they spend most of the time in both reviews just shitting on star wars in general saying that nothing made sense and it would have been better if nothing had been made after the original trilogy.

as I said:

look, either their opinions line up with mine 100% or they're retarded shills

 

[Internet War Criminal]

It becomes even sillier when people seem to forget that RLM don't really give a shit about Star Wars that much and are apathetic towards it.

Yup. Jay basically wouldn't watch any of it if it was up to him, Rich doesn't really care and even with Force Awakens he was like 'Meh it was alright I guess' while Jay and especially Mike fell for it, and Mike has basically lost all interest in anything excepting drinking himself to death.

Their review was just a literal 'It didn't make me want to kill myself, one thumbs up' and people everywhere are freaking out because they didn't, what, spend 8 hours screaming into the void about it?

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

Mike said he liked the Orville and Rich thinks the spiritual aspect of Star Wars was what originally made it unique. The issue is that RotJ turned it from relatively normal people with super powers and strong moral values to a Catholic nunnery. Uncle Ben was not emotionless. He had self-control, but he wasn't a flat line. RotJ with the Emperor introduced the Dark Side = anger/passion/hate, and then TPM expanded it into Dark Side = using emotions at all. ANH and TESB had room for people who used their emotions. You can use hate as a strong motivator, just don't let it control you. TESB had Vader's lust for power and his anger clashing with Luke's untempered love for his friends and ethical crusading. Thomas Aquinas was quite clear that virtues are not extremes the same way that sin is- temperance is not the opposite of gluttony, but a middle ground. Sex, food, drugs, these are not inherently evil and are basic needs or pleasures of life. The Catholic and Anglican Churches view alcohol as inherently good, with beer and wine specifically being singled out compared to spirits. A lot was also made of Ben and Yoda in the first two films being near-ascetic and outsiders of society, extrapolated to the entire concept of Jedi. The issue is that they were hiding from Imperial troops, not intentionally trying to live lives that were virtuous through ascetic contemplation. By the time of RotJ, being a Jedi means having no emotions, to the point that Luke forgoes self-defense. It's fine in the context of that one scene, but as always, George takes one line or one action or one scene and then ten years later expands it as a panacea for the entire concept.

No. What Mike said was whenever he watched The Orville, it would remind him of Star Trek episodes and that he couldn't watch any more of it.

Have you ever considered that the Jedi in the Prequels themselves had fundamentally wrong understandings of the Force? TPM's Jedi council, despite being a religious order, were more concerned with worldly affairs like resolving trade disputes than they were in understanding what their prophecies told them. When they hit the turning point and meet the Chosen One, they themselves were afraid of the potential consequences of training him and set the stage for shunning Anakin for the rest of his life and thus created the threat they wanted to prevent. Also, most priests are poor-fags even when they're not in hiding. That's true of just about every major religion; priests, nuns, and monks are expected to sacrifice a great deal of personal comfort for their beliefs. Whether they're being persecuted for their beliefs has no bearing on their financial status.

You're also completely misuderstanding why Luke foregoes self-defense in RotJ. For one, he stopped because he realized that he was becoming what he hated. That's why he looks at his robot hand; he realized that he was becoming Vader himself and finally internalized that cave lesson in TESB. Second, he discards his lightsaber because he chose to believe that his father Anakin was still alive. He wasn't strictly doing the bidding of Obi-wan and Yoda, who wanted him to defeat the Emperor. The Jedi were never pacifists and never acted like they were. I don't even know where this misconception comes from.

It becomes even sillier when people seem to forget that RLM don't really give a shit about Star Wars that much and are apathetic towards it.

By that token, why talk about Star Wars shows at all? Whatever obligation they had was fulfilled with their TRoS review. If they're not that passionate about the subject, why talk about it?

 

[Doctor of Autism]

By that token, why talk about Star Wars shows at all? Whatever obligation they had was fulfilled with their TRoS review. If they're not that passionate about the subject, why talk about it?

I mean they only watched Kenobi because Jay made them watch it since he was interested about it.

 

[Bush King]

No. What Mike said was whenever he watched The Orville, it would remind him of Star Trek episodes and that he couldn't watch any more of it.

How does that mean he didn't like it? It says more about how far Star Trek has fallen, and that he can't watch it because it makes him sad something he holds so high is now so low.

Have you ever considered that the Jedi in the Prequels themselves had fundamentally wrong understandings of the Force?

That's a useless concept to even discuss seeing as there are no threads in any of the films indicating this. Yes, it's all very contadictory, no this isn't George Lucas being a genius, it's him being a bungling buffoon who cannot write a comprehensible script.

Also, most priests are poor-fags even when they're not in hiding. That's true of just about every major religion; priests, nuns, and monks are expected to sacrifice a great deal of personal comfort for their beliefs. Whether they're being persecuted for their beliefs has no bearing on their financial status.

And yet Anglican clergy marry, have sex with their wives, and brew beer. Catholic priests brew beer. Lay members of Catholic fraternal organisations are not ordained but are expected to live lives that are far more virtuous to their other bretheren, they still smoke, have sex, marry, drink, etc. Priests are paid a salary, they have possessions, many stay in the Church as long as possible, but many also retire, pull a pension, own a house and enjoy their final years before bequeathing the remainder to the flock.

Sacrifice is a part of life, but being a borg is viewed equally as poorly as being a sinner. There is no virtue without struggle, and there is no humanity to be saved without that which makes you human in the first place.

You're also completely misuderstanding why Luke foregoes self-defense in RotJ. For one, he stopped because he realized that he was becoming what he hated. That's why he looks at his robot hand; he realized that he was becoming Vader himself and finally internalized that cave lesson in TESB. Second, he discards his lightsaber because he chose to believe that his father Anakin was still alive.

"it's fine in the context of that one scene"

He wasn't strictly doing the bidding of Obi-wan and Yoda, who wanted him to defeat the Emperor. The Jedi were never pacifists and never acted like they were. I don't even know where this misconception comes from.

I never said that they were pacifists, I said in that specific scene Luke forgoes self-defense because of his emotions. He shows no resistance to the Emperor after that and throws his weapon away, rather than turn it upon the Emperor, a genuinely evil figure. Again, in the context of that scene, it's fine.

 

[Milwaukee Macho Man]

Did we all watch the same re:views?

Millenial Star Wars fags bitch about people who say George Lucas ruined their childhood while they scream that Disney ruined their childhood.

They've declared Jihad on Disney, so if you're not 100% seething at everything they make you're a shill retard. You can't just enjoy something slightly as mindless entertainment, or talk about some things it may have done well. Everything Disney Star Wars is wrong. (and yet they still gotta consoom)

We're talking about the kind of people who not only watch but give money to retards who spend 8 hours shitting on single episodes of these series that are supposed to be so obviously bad it hurts. They're completely gone.