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Favorite recurring character? (Select 4)

  • Jack / AIDSMobdy

    Votes: 257 24.0%
  • Josh / the Wizard

    Votes: 77 7.2%
  • Colin (Canadian #1)

    Votes: 460 42.9%
  • Jim (Canadian #2)

    Votes: 230 21.4%
  • Tim

    Votes: 386 36.0%
  • Len Kabasinski

    Votes: 208 19.4%
  • Freddie Williams

    Votes: 274 25.5%
  • Patton Oswalt

    Votes: 27 2.5%
  • Macaulay Culkin

    Votes: 541 50.4%
  • Max Landis

    Votes: 64 6.0%

  • Total voters
    1,073
Weird that an episode like that could get made in the year 1987.

Rich Evans talked about season 1 being written by guys who grew up in the 1930s and he said it like that was a bad thing, this brings up something I've been thinking about here lately and that's the idea that the 1930s has more in common culturally with the 2000s than the 2000s has with the year 2021.

I was struck by that idea when replaying Halo 3 last year, it just hit me "this feels more like a Flash Gordan serial from the 1930s than a video game made in 2020" and it was weird, but made a certain sense.

I've always had a weird fascination with the 1930s since I was a kid and the idea of the 1930s having such a long life culturally is not a bad thing if you ask me.

I'd put Halo 3 over Code of Honor any day. Code of Honor isn't bad for un-woke, Code of Honor is bad for being a crappy episode. It was also the scriptwriter's fetish, the guy who wrote Code of Honor also went on to write an identical episode for Stargate SG-1, this time with Amanda Tapping. The episode is crap.
 
I'd put Halo 3 over Code of Honor any day. Code of Honor isn't bad for un-woke, Code of Honor is bad for being a crappy episode. It was also the scriptwriter's fetish, the guy who wrote Code of Honor also went on to write an identical episode for Stargate SG-1, this time with Amanda Tapping. The episode is crap.
He's not making that up. Chuck had a field day with that episode (where this time the black folk were replaced by the oriental menace).

What makes it even funnier is that the writer is apparently a woman.

I think she has a fetish.

(code of honor is currently orphaned at the moment)
 
He's not making that up. Chuck had a field day with that episode (where this time the black folk were replaced by the oriental menace).

What makes it even funnier is that the writer is apparently a woman.

I think she has a fetish.

(code of honor is currently orphaned at the moment)

holy fuck it was some dumb fuck grrrl power bs that makes it even better rofl
 
Then you have "The Naked Now," which apart from being a direct ripoff of a TOS episode has all these characters who we've just met behaving wildly out of character. It's the sort of episode you run in a second or third season. Also, I think this was the first time Wesley saved the ship. That happening so early is probably the main reason so many people think he was doing it all the time.

I have heard it claimed that the character Spock became really popular after Naked Time. Up to that point, Spock was kind of a cold fish mocking us for our "Earth emotions", but in Naked Time we see him sobbing because he could never tell his mother he loved her. Nimoy of course knocked the scene out of the park, and the fans realized still waters run deep.

And Season 1 of TNG was, in fact, awful. Don't let your affection for what the show became taint your primitive Earth emotions.

EDIT TO ADD:
In Naked Time, we learn that a cold, emotionless Vulcan understood how hard it was for his mother and decades later, agonized over what he did for her. In Naked Now, Data gets laid and Wesley saves the Enterprise.
 
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Though I never thought about it too hard, I always assumed replicator and transporter technology was behind the radical transformation on Earth. Though the show never adequately connects the dots (because taking that tech to its logical conclusion would kill all possibility of drama), being able to break down matter at the atomic level and restructure it into other forms of matter would result in a literal post-scarcity world almost over night. IRL I think that would result in unbelievable social ill and decay (a la The Last Night's premise) instead of utopia, but I'll give them a pass for not outright claiming communism worked to get us to the aspirational premise. (A premise which is truly beautiful, if delusional.)
It's funny how it takes technology as advanced as a replicator to make the Earth a utopia.

I don't know about you but a replicator sounds like a pretty far fetched idea I wouldn't count on as being actually possible and if that's what it takes us to stop us from killing each other then we're probably in some trouble.

What's funny is how cynical the idea actually is when you really think about it, the only way to stop mankind form killing each other in endless wars is endless gibs, but that's probably how it really is.

I'd put Halo 3 over Code of Honor any day. Code of Honor isn't bad for un-woke, Code of Honor is bad for being a crappy episode. It was also the scriptwriter's fetish, the guy who wrote Code of Honor also went on to write an identical episode for Stargate SG-1, this time with Amanda Tapping. The episode is crap.
I'm not defending Code of Honor, I haven't even seen the full episode, I was just saying that Rich was more on point than he even realizes when he said that a lot of the writers on season 1 would have grown up in the 1930s.

People who grew up in the 1930s wouldn't have been too old in the 1980s and thus their influence would have been significantly felt and that influence would have continued on into even the 2000s.

Because I'm not even talking about people who were literally alive in the 1930s, I'm just talking about 1930s culture being a point of interest and influence on even 2000s culture, I'll cite the movie O, Brother, Where Art Thou? for one example.

When I replayed Halo 3 it just stuck out at me how radically different than games today in tone and overall style it is, Halo 3 was drawing from a long history of science fiction media dating all the way back to the 1930s and Star Trek itself is part of that history, but I feel like the last ten years have been a bigger paradigm shift for American culture than anything between the 1930s and the 2000s or at the very least the 1960s and 2000s for sure.

Just compare Star Trek Discovery and TOS and TNG for a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

My overall point is that culture evolves slower than we realize since we live in an unusual time where technology evolves very fast, but culture evolves slower, that is why I say Halo 3 is closer to Flash Gordan from the 1930s than anything being made today, not because of the technology, but because of the overall "spirit" and tone of things.

You really can't understate how radical the changes in attitude have been over the last ten years though, to cite O, Brother, Where Art Thou? as an example again, while the movie had no problem acknowledging the past's flaws as any movie made about old time America around the 1990s and 2000s did, it still saw the past as something interesting, something worth remembering and something worthy of respect, that's completely different than today, the Woke despise the past, the past is their enemy, they have a desire to wipe clean the entire slate of human history and culture and start fresh where only their version of history and their culture will be remembered by future generations.


On a side note, what I will defend is the sequences of Riker hitting on the woman in the bar, Patrick Stewart's rant about stereotypical female characters comes off as way more creepy to me than laid back scenes of Riker hitting on some VR chick, this is a perfect example of what I'm talking about is why we, putting aside the context of it being VR and not real anyway, do we look at a situation like that and only accuse the guy of wrongdoing? Why do we not seem to realize that in that type of situation the woman would be just as thirsty, just as hoping to get laid and just as "objectifying" the man as the man may be doing towards the woman? Why do so many people get uncomfortable now at the very thought of a man and a woman hooking up?
 
"Code of Honor" is aggressively un-woke, which is one of the few things to like about it. It's so un-woke that no less than Jonathan Frakes has referred to it as "a racist piece of shit" and tried to get it yanked from syndication, as he feels it damages the series.

Then again, that dude was in Picard, so fuck him.

There's nothing wrong with Code of Honor apart from the shit story, the dumb premise, the laughable acting and production values so cheap it could've been filmed in Mr Plinkett's basement.

Irregardless, the part where Tasha Yar does space karate on a member of Parliament Funkadelic is lol.

codeofhonor-yar.jpg


There's nothing racist about it, it's just a fictional African society with goofy stereotypes. Basically the same damn thing as Wakanda from Black Panther or Zamunda but without Eddie Murphy's royal penis being washed.

The TNG episodes featuring the Space Irish, or that weird, primitive Scottish planet where Beverly Crusher got fucked by a space ghost, were if anything a lot more offensively stereotypical, but I haven't seen Colm Meaney or other alcoholic leprechauns crying about how they should be deleted.
 
On a side note, what I will defend is the sequences of Riker hitting on the woman in the bar, Patrick Stewart's rant about stereotypical female characters comes off as way more creepy to me than laid back scenes of Riker hitting on some VR chick, this is a perfect example of what I'm talking about is why we, putting aside the context of it being VR and not real anyway, do we look at a situation like that and only accuse the guy of wrongdoing? Why do we not seem to realize that in that type of situation the woman would be just as thirsty, just as hoping to get laid and just as "objectifying" the man as the man may be doing towards the woman? Why do so many people get uncomfortable now at the very thought of a man and a woman hooking up?

Rich wasn't talking about the VR itself, he was talking about the attitude of the writers that they wrote female NPCs to be used as sex toys and then forgotten about. and saw nothing wrong with it. IIRC they linked it to how Troy and Crusher were portrayed in Season 1 especially during the space drunk episode where the women magically all become thirsty bimbos while the men strut around manfully gritting their teeth. They were commenting on how the male characters get some dignity in trying to resist the effects of the space virus but the female characters don't get that kind of dignity, and that this coupled with Minuet being a spankbank fantasy made them uncomfortable.

Personally, I don't fully agree with them. I found Minuet's episode to be very romantic and sweet for Riker since he's very tender to Minuet. I also really like how they tied that back in a later season when Minuet is referenced once again, because it was a sign that even though she was a hologram she meant a lot to Riker and that she was still on his mind. It was a very sweet note that made Riker's character a lot more poignant and I really dislike how Rich and Mike just dismissed it as "horrible" like there wasn't a certain sadness for Riker that he lost Minuet's program and couldn't recreate her, and that she meant so much to him that telepathic aliens tried to use her image to trick him. And IIRC, the fact that the telepathic aliens used Minuet's image that way made Riker furious and that's how he broke out of the mental prison the telepathic aliens had trapped him in.

I think that Rich and Mike have a point though about how female characters were treated badly and without any dignity in season 1, though I think this is due to Rodenberry being a drug addicted coomer in a wheelchair rather than the series itself being hateful. But it wasn't about accusing Riker of being a cyber rapist and that Rich and Mike are being misandrists or hate hook ups. I believe that they've talked about liking other romances in the show like the romance between Picard and Vash, and they definitely hooked up and had lots of sex whenever they met each other in TNG. I guess we'll have to wait and see if they get to later episodes though.

But honestly, I don't think their complaints were that huge and they were rooted in reality, especially since they're both relatively normal people that don't like seeing the actors that they enjoy being denigrated. When Mike talked about Marina Sirtis being saved by Star Trek and being able to become a respectable actress instead of having to do creepy B-movies where the director kept trying to grab her ass, he was pretty broken up about it. It's not hard to understand why they don't like the idea of the cast members being denigrated on set with bad script writing and stupid stereotypical choices.
 
It's funny how it takes technology as advanced as a replicator to make the Earth a utopia.

I don't know about you but a replicator sounds like a pretty far fetched idea I wouldn't count on as being actually possible and if that's what it takes us to stop us from killing each other then we're probably in some trouble.

What's funny is how cynical the idea actually is when you really think about it, the only way to stop mankind form killing each other in endless wars is endless gibs, but that's probably how it really is.

Like I said, I don't think that would actually work. (I think it would actually really fuck us up.) Conflict and war are truly eternal, not "problems" with solutions. There will never be a real-life utopia.

But replicator/transporter technology (they're really the same thing, ultimately), coupled with the space "frontier" that the ambitious could confront and explore if a life of comfort wasn't appealing... you can see why people might buy that was possible (at least as a sci-fi premise), and it's a good starting point for a space exploration show.

Also, whoever mentioned the show Picard earlier in the thread as if it were canon should be ashamed of himself.

You really can't understate how radical the changes in attitude have been over the last ten years though, to cite O, Brother, Where Art Thou? as an example again, while the movie had no problem acknowledging the past's flaws as any movie made about old time America around the 1990s and 2000s did, it still saw the past as something interesting, something worth remembering and something worthy of respect, that's completely different than today, the Woke despise the past, the past is their enemy, they have a desire to wipe clean the entire slate of human history and culture and start fresh where only their version of history and their culture will be remembered by future generations.

"American culture" really isn't changing organically, though. Wokefaggery is an attempt to brute force a cultural change that most Americans don't agree with based on beliefs that most Americans laugh at. Almost nobody believes this shit.

But honestly, I don't think their complaints were that huge and they were rooted in reality, especially since they're both relatively normal people that don't like seeing the actors that they enjoy being denigrated. When Mike talked about Marina Sirtis being saved by Star Trek and being able to become a respectable actress instead of having to do creepy B-movies where the director kept trying to grab her ass, he was pretty broken up about it. It's not hard to understand why they don't like the idea of the cast members being denigrated on set with bad script writing and stupid stereotypical choices.

I don't think Mike and co. are anything but good guys, but Mike's baffling, borderline cruel lack of respect or regard for Sirtis has always made me laugh. "Really glad to be working..."
 
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Rich wasn't talking about the VR itself, he was talking about the attitude of the writers that they wrote female NPCs to be used as sex toys and then forgotten about. and saw nothing wrong with it. IIRC they linked it to how Troy and Crusher were portrayed in Season 1 especially during the space drunk episode where the women magically all become thirsty bimbos while the men strut around manfully gritting their teeth. They were commenting on how the male characters get some dignity in trying to resist the effects of the space virus but the female characters don't get that kind of dignity, and that this coupled with Minuet being a spankbank fantasy made them uncomfortable.

Personally, I don't fully agree with them. I found Minuet's episode to be very romantic and sweet for Riker since he's very tender to Minuet. I also really like how they tied that back in a later season when Minuet is referenced once again, because it was a sign that even though she was a hologram she meant a lot to Riker and that she was still on his mind. It was a very sweet note that made Riker's character a lot more poignant and I really dislike how Rich and Mike just dismissed it as "horrible" like there wasn't a certain sadness for Riker that he lost Minuet's program and couldn't recreate her, and that she meant so much to him that telepathic aliens tried to use her image to trick him. And IIRC, the fact that the telepathic aliens used Minuet's image that way made Riker furious and that's how he broke out of the mental prison the telepathic aliens had trapped him in.

I think that Rich and Mike have a point though about how female characters were treated badly and without any dignity in season 1, though I think this is due to Rodenberry being a drug addicted coomer in a wheelchair rather than the series itself being hateful. But it wasn't about accusing Riker of being a cyber rapist and that Rich and Mike are being misandrists or hate hook ups. I believe that they've talked about liking other romances in the show like the romance between Picard and Vash, and they definitely hooked up and had lots of sex whenever they met each other in TNG. I guess we'll have to wait and see if they get to later episodes though.

But honestly, I don't think their complaints were that huge and they were rooted in reality, especially since they're both relatively normal people that don't like seeing the actors that they enjoy being denigrated. When Mike talked about Marina Sirtis being saved by Star Trek and being able to become a respectable actress instead of having to do creepy B-movies where the director kept trying to grab her ass, he was pretty broken up about it. It's not hard to understand why they don't like the idea of the cast members being denigrated on set with bad script writing and stupid stereotypical choices.
Sure, but I wasn't talking about the drunk episode, that was pretty undeniably sexist, I was just talking about Minuet, today's culture would do the exact same thing, just reverse the sexes, have a female character make her ultimate fantasy fuck toy and that would somehow be treated as "progress" whereas the modern take would be a lot more explicitly sexist towards men than showing men and women on more equal ground.

Compare Janine in Ghostbusters to Chris Hemsworth's character in Ghostbusters 2016, Janine was their secretary sure, but she was never depicted as an idiot like Chris's character was, once upon a time American culture really did used to be a lot more equal when it came to men and women until feminists decreed that "progress" on that front now meant being blatantly sexist towards men.

There's nothing racist about it, it's just a fictional African society with goofy stereotypes. Basically the same damn thing as Wakanda from Black Panther or Zamunda but without Eddie Murphy's royal penis being washed.
That was my point, I'm not seeing how it's fundamentally different than a Wakanda or Zamunda, heck we just had a lavish sequel to Coming to America.

If Black Panther had come out in 2008 it would have been decried as hysterically racist and stereotypical, but ten years later and it was all Wakanda foreva!

Black America loves stereotypes these days so long as they're the ones doing the stereotyping.
 
On a side note, what I will defend is the sequences of Riker hitting on the woman in the bar, Patrick Stewart's rant about stereotypical female characters comes off as way more creepy to me than laid back scenes of Riker hitting on some VR chick, this is a perfect example of what I'm talking about is why we, putting aside the context of it being VR and not real anyway, do we look at a situation like that and only accuse the guy of wrongdoing? Why do we not seem to realize that in that type of situation the woman would be just as thirsty, just as hoping to get laid and just as "objectifying" the man as the man may be doing towards the woman? Why do so many people get uncomfortable now at the very thought of a man and a woman hooking up?

I have no idea, but Patrick Stewart is a geriatric white man who wears makeup for a living and says basic bitch woke talking points for asspats (imagine wasting the few remaining years of your life being assmad at Brexit and DRUMF, lol)

Idk about Mike and Rich, they seem like nice guys who probably aren't very comfortable talking to women because they're nerds. A lot of poorly socialised men (especially Millennials, who are truly fucked) think women want to be treated like men or something.

They don't, they want to be objectified (in the right way, in the right context, by the right guy). That doesn't mean grabbing their ass necessarily (unless...), but normal heterosexual women enjoy men being attracted to them, letting them know they're desirable, and being confident enough and socially un-retarded enough to take the initiative.

Dorks are so hung up on sex and sexism they seem to only be comfortable consooming media that shows lesbians or implausibly ass-kicking boss babes assertively pursuing sex. Maybe that's appealing to the maladjusted because they're too awkward to imagine flirting with a woman and trying to convince her to drop her panties.
 
Sure, but I wasn't talking about the drunk episode, that was pretty undeniably sexist, I was just talking about Minuet, today's culture would do the exact same thing, just reverse the sexes, have a female character make her ultimate fantasy fuck toy and that would somehow be treated as "progress" whereas the modern take would be a lot more explicitly sexist towards men than showing men and women on more equal ground.

Compare Janine in Ghostbusters to Chris Hemsworth's character in Ghostbusters 2016, Janine was their secretary sure, but she was never depicted as an idiot like Chris's character was, once upon a time American culture really did used to be a lot more equal when it came to men and women until feminists decreed that "progress" on that front now meant being blatantly sexist towards men.

Sure but that's just how modern entertainment is currently swinging thanks to wokeness. Though it does show why it's important to hold on to old shows like TNG now to remind people of the disparity.

That was my point, I'm not seeing how it's fundamentally different than a Wakanda or Zamunda, heck we just had a lavish sequel to Coming to America.

Black America loves stereotypes these days so long as they're the ones doing the stereotyping.

I wasn't paying attention to Star Trek during this time, I wonder if black people had an opinion about Code of Honor (if they watched TNG at all)
 
just reverse the sexes, have a female character make her ultimate fantasy fuck toy and that would somehow be treated as "progress" whereas the modern take would be a lot more explicitly sexist towards men than showing men and women on more equal ground.

Boy, you're gonna love the episode where Riker gets raped by Bebe Neuwirth.
 
I don't know about you but a replicator sounds like a pretty far fetched idea I wouldn't count on as being actually possible and if that's what it takes us to stop us from killing each other then we're probably in some trouble.

What's funny is how cynical the idea actually is when you really think about it, the only way to stop mankind form killing each other in endless wars is endless gibs, but that's probably how it really is.
Technically in canon it's the discovery of alien life. Troi tells Zephram in the TNG movie "First Contact" that "war, poverty, disease - all of it ends when mankind learns that you're not alone in the universe."

Which could be hopeful - or a statement that you meatbags will stop killing each other if you can find someone even more different to kill :D
 
On a side note, what I will defend is the sequences of Riker hitting on the woman in the bar, Patrick Stewart's rant about stereotypical female characters comes off as way more creepy to me than laid back scenes of Riker hitting on some VR chick, this is a perfect example of what I'm talking about is why we, putting aside the context of it being VR and not real anyway, do we look at a situation like that and only accuse the guy of wrongdoing? Why do we not seem to realize that in that type of situation the woman would be just as thirsty, just as hoping to get laid and just as "objectifying" the man as the man may be doing towards the woman? Why do so many people get uncomfortable now at the very thought of a man and a woman hooking up?
It's dragging the idiom of marxism into relationships (which feminism did years ago). To the wokescolds, everything is about power dynamics. (It's ironically one of the reasons they're [thankfully] still against pedophilia.) Since in their view men are the oppressors and women the oppressed and the power dynamics therein, men hitting on women to them is no different from an adult hitting on a child.

I wish I was making this up.

The TNG episodes featuring the Space Irish, or that weird, primitive Scottish planet where Beverly Crusher got fucked by a space ghost, were if anything a lot more offensively stereotypical, but I haven't seen Colm Meaney or other alcoholic leprechauns crying about how they should be deleted.
True story, the DS9 episode "If Wishes were Horses" was supposed to have a Leprechaun appear to O'Brien and Colm flat out told them to fuck off so they made it "Rumplestilkin" instead.

Personally, I don't fully agree with them. I found Minuet's episode to be very romantic and sweet for Riker since he's very tender to Minuet. I also really like how they tied that back in a later season when Minuet is referenced once again, because it was a sign that even though she was a hologram she meant a lot to Riker and that she was still on his mind. It was a very sweet note that made Riker's character a lot more poignant and I really dislike how Rich and Mike just dismissed it as "horrible" like there wasn't a certain sadness for Riker that he lost Minuet's program and couldn't recreate her, and that she meant so much to him that telepathic aliens tried to use her image to trick him. And IIRC, the fact that the telepathic aliens used Minuet's image that way made Riker furious and that's how he broke out of the mental prison the telepathic aliens had trapped him in.
Slight correction: It was 1 alien, (probably semi-telepathic) who had only a holodeck to keep him company. That's also what makes Minuet's appearance such brilliant writing because that's what is going on: Riker's not in a telepathic illusion or another universe or anything like that - he's in a holodeck.
 
It's dragging the idiom of marxism into relationships (which feminism did years ago). To the wokescolds, everything is about power dynamics. (It's ironically one of the reasons they're [thankfully] still against pedophilia.) Since in their view men are the oppressors and women the oppressed and the power dynamics therein, men hitting on women to them is no different from an adult hitting on a child.

I wish I was making this up.
I know exactly what you mean, it all comes down to the "progressive stack" and a person's "priviledge"

Many of them are still against pedophilia for now, but eventually they would try to normalize pedophilia too, they literally can't help themselves, there must always be a new sexual minority to prop up and the longer times goes on the less options there's going to be.

Sure, it would cause another schism and cause a lot of Woke people to go Unwoke, just like we have the whole "TERF" divide, but when have the Woke ever cared about making enemies? They love making new enemies, they purposely seek out new groups to pick fights with just for the hell of it.
 
Slight correction: It was 1 alien, (probably semi-telepathic) who had only a holodeck to keep him company. That's also what makes Minuet's appearance such brilliant writing because that's what is going on: Riker's not in a telepathic illusion or another universe or anything like that - he's in a holodeck.

I see, I must be conflating it with another TNG episode in my mind!

Geez now that I think about it Riker got picked on a lot :(
 
I see, I must be conflating it with another TNG episode in my mind!

Geez now that I think about it Riker got picked on a lot :(
He did. There was the episode him and others on the Enterprise were experimented on while they slept.

He was also in an alien insane asylum which is probably what you might be thinking of.

Riker kind of was the O'Brien of TNG in a way. (must suffer once a season)
 
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