I would have like to have been able to restore worn weapons that you collect from dead enemies and then sell them to gun dealers or the fences for a few bucks. And had a fence and/or horse fence in New Austin. It wasn't worth stealing a stagecoach in new Austin and driving all the way to Emerald Ranch to unload it or roping a horse outside of Tumbleweed and taking it all the way to Scarlett Meadows most of the time.
I wish we could purchase and store vehicles like wagons and stagecoaches (and then drive our gangster friends around in them and do drivebys). It was called GTA San Andreas, it was glorious, and no GTA has ever topped it.
I also wish my horses would die sometimes. Maybe I just got lucky but I don't think I ever had a single one die on me which took some of the oomph out of . I really enjoyed being able to break and then sell horses, though. But that was also a pain in the ass, because to do more than one at a time required some fuckery with riding that broken horse, lassoing a second broken horse, and whistling to keep my original personal mount following me. Shit, why limit the number of horses following at all? Why not include that sheep herding thing as the way to move the crowd? Why not include the sheep herding mission as an introduction to rustling, like the stagecoach robbery was to using the fence, so I can herd up other peopel's cattle, drive them to Valentine, and sell them?
I wonder if rustling would have been an option had they left in the side missions where you recruit other gang members to go with you. I don't see how rustling cattle or sheep would work single handledly (short of lassoing a single cow or sheep and taking them to a fence or crooked dealer in Valentine). The sheep mission with John, the cow mission with Uncle, and the horse theft mission with John and Javier showed that it needed at least a second thief to keep the stolen livestock from wandering off.
One option would have been to make a stolen herd or even individual heads of cattle more valuable the further away they came from. Example: the fence is in Valentine and a stolen cow from Emerald Ranch is only worth a dollar a head, but a cow stolen from the Tumbleweed area would be worth ten dollars a head. And have to deal with other people trying to rustle your rustled cattle and/or law enforcement trying to find you and/or the stolen cattle. The more cattle you keep together, the bigger the bonus. Say a herd had normally ten cows and you and your friends swipe them from Tumbleweed and get them to Valentine. You'd normally get 100 bucks but there's a bonus of 150% because you managed to get them all there without losing any to stragglers or other thieves.
I wish we could purchase and store vehicles like wagons and stagecoaches (and then drive our gangster friends around in them and do drivebys). It was called GTA San Andreas, it was glorious, and no GTA has ever topped it.
I also wish my horses would die sometimes. Maybe I just got lucky but I don't think I ever had a single one die on me which took some of the oomph out of . I really enjoyed being able to break and then sell horses, though. But that was also a pain in the ass, because to do more than one at a time required some fuckery with riding that broken horse, lassoing a second broken horse, and whistling to keep my original personal mount following me. Shit, why limit the number of horses following at all? Why not include that sheep herding thing as the way to move the crowd? Why not include the sheep herding mission as an introduction to rustling, like the stagecoach robbery was to using the fence, so I can herd up other peopel's cattle, drive them to Valentine, and sell them?
Horses, wagons, and all of that felt so strangely limiting despite the otherwise increased bonding and maintenance. The only way to really do anything in wagons in singleplayer is to sell them to the fence and even then its really based on its type and nothing else. 2 axles? Lowest price no arguments. Full sized coach is the only way its mildly worth your while and even that's more waiting for one to trundle along the nearby trade route than anything.
Even in Online you can only get two two and a half wagons and both suck. One's for bounties which for some inexplicably doesn't let you sit on the back for a four person wagon, or even *three* on the bench. The hunting wagon doesn't even upgrade enough to fully utilize the largest animals which makes them paradoxically not that great for prepping your supplies.
I feel like they could've easily shunted a super simple version of both Bounty Hunter and Trader into singleplayer. Don't even need a ton of new lines to voice act it just have Pearson act as the NPC handling it like he does usually. Fill the bar, a random gang member joins you to go sell the goods. Some O'driscolls, Raiders, or whomever harass you.
I feel like they could've easily shunted a super simple version of both Bounty Hunter and Trader into singleplayer. Don't even need a ton of new lines to voice act it just have Pearson act as the NPC handling it like he does usually. Fill the bar, a random gang member joins you to go sell the goods. Some O'driscolls, Raiders, or whomever harass you.
That would have been an interesting mechanic in single player. Boost a wagon or rob a house or something and instead of the fence taking it or putting the thing in the camp box, you have to sell it to someone, you just aren't sure where. Maybe in Annesburg, or on a street corner in Saint Denis, or go to a farmer's house. And sometimes you might try to sell it and the person you're talking to recognizes it as Aunt Martha's book or Cousin Homer's jacket and either calls the law or attacks you or something.
Or even just swipe a stagecoach and take fares like a GTA taxi. Hit 100 fares and you get a special hat or a trinket or something for it.
That would have been an interesting mechanic in single player. Boost a wagon or rob a house or something and instead of the fence taking it or putting the thing in the camp box, you have to sell it to someone, you just aren't sure where. Maybe in Annesburg, or on a street corner in Saint Denis, or go to a farmer's house. And sometimes you might try to sell it and the person you're talking to recognizes it as Aunt Martha's book or Cousin Homer's jacket and either calls the law or attacks you or something.
Or even just swipe a stagecoach and take fares like a GTA taxi. Hit 100 fares and you get a special hat or a trinket or something for it.
Oh god it's so obvious, stagecoach as taxi is perfect and horses could have been like a Pony Express courier (so another taxi, just with no passenger) (also salty there were no horse races, which would have fit in heavily with Scarlett Meadows too).
Horses, wagons, and all of that felt so strangely limiting despite the otherwise increased bonding and maintenance. The only way to really do anything in wagons in singleplayer is to sell them to the fence and even then its really based on its type and nothing else. 2 axles? Lowest price no arguments. Full sized coach is the only way its mildly worth your while and even that's more waiting for one to trundle along the nearby trade route than anything.
Even in Online you can only get two two and a half wagons and both suck. One's for bounties which for some inexplicably doesn't let you sit on the back for a four person wagon, or even *three* on the bench. The hunting wagon doesn't even upgrade enough to fully utilize the largest animals which makes them paradoxically not that great for prepping your supplies.
I feel like they could've easily shunted a super simple version of both Bounty Hunter and Trader into singleplayer. Don't even need a ton of new lines to voice act it just have Pearson act as the NPC handling it like he does usually. Fill the bar, a random gang member joins you to go sell the goods. Some O'driscolls, Raiders, or whomever harass you.
You know, since we're on it now, Assassin's Creed Syndicate was a mediocre game in general, but one thing that it got really right was the way wagons can be turned into a combat vehicle. (Sleeping Dogs also had good vehicular combat, and Mad Max is the gold standard but has the benefit of a fictional setting built for it). Basically just boiled down to that the cabriolet could still autopilot a bit while you climbed onto the roof to fight, and you could smash into wagons, and so wagon chases were always kind of clunky given the speed and crowded streets and such, but it did work and it was novel and fun.
Literally all you need, mild autopilot (better autopilot with a companion to take the reins) when you lean out a window to shoot, ability to jump onto other wagons, and an option to smash (horizontal surge).
I wonder if rustling would have been an option had they left in the side missions where you recruit other gang members to go with you. I don't see how rustling cattle or sheep would work single handledly (short of lassoing a single cow or sheep and taking them to a fence or crooked dealer in Valentine). The sheep mission with John, the cow mission with Uncle, and the horse theft mission with John and Javier showed that it needed at least a second thief to keep the stolen livestock from wandering off.
One option would have been to make a stolen herd or even individual heads of cattle more valuable the further away they came from. Example: the fence is in Valentine and a stolen cow from Emerald Ranch is only worth a dollar a head, but a cow stolen from the Tumbleweed area would be worth ten dollars a head. And have to deal with other people trying to rustle your rustled cattle and/or law enforcement trying to find you and/or the stolen cattle. The more cattle you keep together, the bigger the bonus. Say a herd had normally ten cows and you and your friends swipe them from Tumbleweed and get them to Valentine. You'd normally get 100 bucks but there's a bonus of 150% because you managed to get them all there without losing any to stragglers or other thieves.
I think Rockstar was leery of herding mechanics after people bitched about it so much in the original Red Dead, which is why none of John's ranch missions involved them. But I think you didn't get what I meant, remember the cow missions with Bonnie from Red Dead and the sheep mission from RDR2? That is a pretty reasonable depiction of how herding animals works. They naturally move away from the horse, so go at them from behind to drive forward, turn into a side corner to make the mass turn, and sweep behind them to encourage them to bunch up together (tight formation that won't have as many drifting off and needing to be brought back). In real life they use cowdogs and sheepdogs to assist in this. A ranch crew will have different hands serving in different positions along the herd, but one person can drive a small mass of cattle for sure. So you don't need a lasso to work them, the lassos are for dealing with things that aren't cooperating (like an aggressive bull or a wild horse). The gameplay in Red Dead was smooth, elegant, would have made a good dad/cozy game but I don't think anybody has done it.
There is a cowboy simulator coming up, but I don't have high hopes for anything with simulator in the title. The basic mechanics for ranch work and rodeo sports (barrel races with horses) all already exist in the game. Rodeo would have been a cool thing to have included in Big Valley and/or New Austin (bull riding would obviously just be a typical "keep your balance" minigame where you push the joystick the opposite direction that the bull is bucking with an equal intensity.)
A lot of things in this game just feel unfinished, especially the minor gameplay details. Sure, a lot of them are trivial, but after a while they start to build up just like the continuity errors, and plot holes.
-There's bait for animals, but there's none specifically for birds, or fish.
-You can pet dogs, and horses, but not cats.
-You can't own donkeys, or mules despite being able to do that in the first game.
-You can't buy properties even though there's tons all over the map, and you could do that in the first game.
-Outside of the oversight at Aberdeen Pig Farm, and the weapons locker, there is no banking system, or way to cache items, or money.
-Seamus can be sold wagons, and carriages that are on fire, and have dead bodies in them.
-Setting a structure on fire will not smoke NPCs, or enemies out of it.
-You can customize the camp, but not Beecher's Hope.
-You can't bath at Beecher's Hope even though it has a bathtub.
-You can't own more than four horses at Beecher's Hope even though it has a corral, and a barn.
-Dinner at Beecher's Hope is just uncomfortable because of how weird the dialogue always is.
-There's no portable shaving kit.
-You can't buy fat from the butchers.
-There's two shades of pink for horse manes, and tails, but no other unrealistic colors like blue, or purple.
-While realistic because it corresponds to the lighting outside, the lighting inside the Stables makes it hard to see how your horse really looks.
-You can't sleep in Hamish's house even when he's dead, and you can sleep in pretty every other abandoned house with a bed.
-You can find tons of dead people all over the map, but you can't bury them, or tell the cops about them. Even when it's a murdered couple right next to town that you clearly had nothing to do with, you can still can't do anything about it.
-Crayfish don't count as crustaceans for the final Herbalist challenge for some reason, and you can't eat them.
I would have like to have been able to restore worn weapons that you collect from dead enemies and then sell them to gun dealers or the fences for a few bucks. And had a fence and/or horse fence in New Austin. It wasn't worth stealing a stagecoach in new Austin and driving all the way to Emerald Ranch to unload it or roping a horse outside of Tumbleweed and taking it all the way to Scarlett Meadows most of the time.
No fence anywhere in the southern hemisphere of the map feels like a giant design oversight. I hated clearing gang camps down there and not being able to offload any of my goods unless I spent three hours riding back north.
There are so many little tweaks they could make to RDR2 to make it better but they just left single player to rot on the vine for multiplayer that they also swiftly abandoned. It's a huge shame.
A lot of things in this game just feel unfinished, especially the minor gameplay details. Sure, a lot of them are trivial, but after a while they start to build up just like the continuity errors, and plot holes.
The game has a ludicrous amount of content and shit to do so I don't mind that it's missing some things here or there but the game does work on a sliding scale of completeness. Once you build Beecher's Hope the game pretty much starts to fall apart until you're left in an utterly empty post game.
But most games are that way, where once you've finished the story part and the side quests and hunting for whatever, there simply isn't much to do. GTA suffers from that too. Robbed everyone you can and completed every mission? I guess I can still steal cars and run over pedestrians and outrun cops, but even that gets repetitive after a while. I know the push is for stuff like GTAO or RDRO but I also think R* is ignoring a huge untapped market by not putting out single player DLC or side games like Undead Nightmare or the Ballad of Gay Tony and The Lost & The Damned games. I don't play the online games consistently or enough to be competitive, so I just don't play them, but I would play the side games and/or DLC.
But most games are that way, where once you've finished the story part and the side quests and hunting for whatever, there simply isn't much to do. GTA suffers from that too. Robbed everyone you can and completed every mission? I guess I can still steal cars and run over pedestrians and outrun cops, but even that gets repetitive after a while. I know the push is for stuff like GTAO or RDRO but I also think R* is ignoring a huge untapped market by not putting out single player DLC or side games like Undead Nightmare or the Ballad of Gay Tony and The Lost & The Damned games. I don't play the online games consistently or enough to be competitive, so I just don't play them, but I would play the side games and/or DLC.
The issue with RDR2 is that even random encounters stop happening which wasn't a problem in the first game. It makes it so even an overworld this giant, and detailed feels lifeless.
The issue with RDR2 is that even random encounters stop happening which wasn't a problem in the first game. It makes it so even an overworld this giant, and detailed feels lifeless.
You're right. About the only stuff to do after the epilogue is complete the Evelyn Miller strand, break whatever horses you want and keep killing various gang members. I got no problem killing them, but one would think after I've managed to personally kill a thousand Del Lobos they would quit being an issue in New Austin, but here we are...
I get there is a cut off of what can be found and done in an open world game, but once you've found and done everything then what? At least in GTA I can steal a car and listen to music, even if it is the same fifty songs over and over, while I run over pedestrians and run away from cops. RDR2 doesn't even have that.
RDR2 is still my favorite game of all time (Vice City is a close second and I did appreciate the remastered version they put out for PS4 a few years back, even if some songs were missing because of licensing), but I do acknowledge that riding around as John and killing Skinner Brothers and collecting deer pelts gets very repetitive when that is all there is to do.
I don't expect a new GTA or RDR or some other game every two or three years like clockwork, but this year will be five years since RDR2 was released and we still don't have a date or any real solid info on GTA6 beyond those leaked videos. Just give us players who just want something for single player campaigns and not online play something.
So a thought just occurred to me. I know I've brought up the possibility of having to track down the new gang members introduced in RDR2 if RDR1 ever gets remade, and I know how unlikely it is for Rockstar to actually do that let alone actually ever remake RDR1, but I just realized something.
If they ever actually do that, and do make you go track down all, or even just some of the new guys, doesn't that kinda ruin the theme of the game? You know, the whole redemption part? In the original RDR1, all the gang members you had to go find were bad people. With the additions made from RDR2, that's no longer the case.
So a thought just occurred to me. I know I've brought up the possibility of having to track down the new gang members introduced in RDR2 if RDR1 ever gets remade, and I know how unlikely it is for Rockstar to actually do that let alone actually ever remake RDR1, but I just realized something.
If they ever actually do that, and do make you go track down all, or even just some of the new guys, doesn't that kinda ruin the theme of the game? You know, the whole redemption part? In the original RDR1, all the gang members you had to go find were bad people. With the additions made from RDR2, that's no longer the case.
Not going after Pearson, Sadie, the girls and Charles isn't some major issue because they weren't the major players of the gang and it would ruin the entire theme of RDR1. Of course it shouldn't be a thing if they ever remake it.
Not going after Pearson, Sadie, the girls and Charles isn't some major issue because they weren't the major players of the gang and it would ruin the entire theme of RDR1. Of course it shouldn't be a thing if they ever remake it.
I agree with most of that, but Charles is listed as being a wanted member of the gang in the newspapers, so the government is aware of him. True, he is in Canada, but still.
I guess my issue stems from the fact that I want RDR2 to matter in regard to RDR1 instead of just feeling like some alternate history that takes place in a different universe. I want these new changes, and characters to impact that first game at least somewhat, and actually matter so RDR2 can feel like less of a giant retcon to RDR1.
That, and the fact Rockstar decided to focus more on them instead of developing the ones already introduced in the first game, so not doing anything with them in RDR1 would make everything that happened in RDR2 feel even more pointless.
I guessing since Uncle, Pearson, Mary Beth, Tilly, and Swanson hadn't really committed any major crimes, hunting them down wasn't worth Ross' time. Charles and Sadie just went out of the US (or maybe they didn't), but even though Ross had tracked John down in 1907, he didn't do anything until 1911 and that wasn't until Bill was becoming a problem that needed solved so someone powerful could get elected, Javier was a problem in Mexico which was a problem to the US, and Dutch was a problem in West Elizabeth. I suspect Charles just disappeared into some tribe (maybe the Wapiti's that were relocated to Canada) and lived a quiet life, Sadie just disappeared in South America, and that was the story of them.
But once Bill and Dutch were killed (and I doubt the US government cared about Javier one way or the other so long as he stayed in Mexico but they did care about the Mexican Revolution stopping and John all-but singlehandedly stopping it was just a bonus) then the election could go ahead as planned once the loose end that was John was tied up.
Ross just didn't count on Jack growing up and deciding Ross wasn't going to get away with it.
ADDED: Something I just considered is that John was forced to do Ross' bidding was because Ross had the leverage of Abigail and Jack. He wouldn't have had anything like that to move Charles or Sadie unless something changed for them.
A lot of things in this game just feel unfinished, especially the minor gameplay details. Sure, a lot of them are trivial, but after a while they start to build up just like the continuity errors, and plot holes.
-There's bait for animals, but there's none specifically for birds, or fish.
-You can pet dogs, and horses, but not cats.
-You can't own donkeys, or mules despite being able to do that in the first game.
-You can't buy properties even though there's tons all over the map, and you could do that in the first game.
-Outside of the oversight at Aberdeen Pig Farm, and the weapons locker, there is no banking system, or way to cache items, or money.
-Seamus can be sold wagons, and carriages that are on fire, and have dead bodies in them.
-Setting a structure on fire will not smoke NPCs, or enemies out of it.
-You can customize the camp, but not Beecher's Hope.
-You can't bath at Beecher's Hope even though it has a bathtub.
-You can't own more than four horses at Beecher's Hope even though it has a corral, and a barn.
-Dinner at Beecher's Hope is just uncomfortable because of how weird the dialogue always is.
-There's no portable shaving kit.
-You can't buy fat from the butchers.
-There's two shades of pink for horse manes, and tails, but no other unrealistic colors like blue, or purple.
-While realistic because it corresponds to the lighting outside, the lighting inside the Stables makes it hard to see how your horse really looks.
-You can't sleep in Hamish's house even when he's dead, and you can sleep in pretty every other abandoned house with a bed.
-You can find tons of dead people all over the map, but you can't bury them, or tell the cops about them. Even when it's a murdered couple right next to town that you clearly had nothing to do with, you can still can't do anything about it.
-Crayfish don't count as crustaceans for the final Herbalist challenge for some reason, and you can't eat them.
Yeah they really are trivial, that's like bitching because you noticed a small chip on the left heel of Michelangelo's David. Your point about bait is also (partially) wrong, fish have baits, different species attracted to different ones. It might not unlock until even later in the game. The swamp shack sells the extra special bait types.
Beecher's Hope is a big lost opportunity because they could have put in some minigames and especially a cattle or sheep herding one, it was even already built into the game in the form of that mission. Would be as simple as a thing where your cattle fatten, at a faster rate if they're on a fresh field (they eventually graze the field down) but this is a Rockstar game for babbies so let's say moving them is a bonus, not necessary. Then you drive them in for sale, with an option of Blackwater for extremely low value but a much higher, longer, and riskier (chance of shootout with rustlers) drive to Valentine or Tumbleweed.
But even with just sticking to core shooting gameplay that a Red Dead player can be assumed to like, there's potential for a farm because you have varmints in the garden (think night watch, stake it out, shoot a rabbit quick enough when it darts in), hunting predators that have been raiding your herds (track and kill), and while maybe contrary to the spirit of John retiring from violence, rustlers.
RDR1 never really did clarify WHAT they were doing for a living at beecher's hope, because there were no crops at that "farm" (consistent with most video games that just ignore that detail of worldbuilding) but John also was a novice rancher.
Hunter: Call of the Wild makes hunting look lame in this game. And they're going for completely different things, but in Call of the Wild animals run from you and there's a lot fewer of them and the tracking is much more extended, so it's a big deal when you shoot one. In Red Dead you just gun down everything that crosses your path and tracking is like Ubishit levels of "follow the glowing line." (Call of the Wild has that, but they're marked as tracks and you can easily screw up by approaching too quick.) You want to shoot, well, you may have a full magazine but it really doesn't matter because if you miss your shot it will lope off before you get the next round chambered and the gun aimed again. I had a moment when I saw a duck flying by, raised my gun, and realized I could never hit something like that (forgot that's what birdshot is for), where in Red Dead you can take a single repeater magazine and kill teh whole flock, just because Red Dead has auto aim.
But the one thing Red Dead could easily bring into it without changing the whole pace and feel (and probably making it worse, since hunting in Red Dead is meant to be more of a frontier power fantasy than a simulator, and an activity you do passively on the way to your destination) is have bait and calls specific to animals. You said there's no fish bait, but that's not true at all, you have different baits for different ones. True that there's none for birds. In Call of the Wild, there's no "bait" in the sense of something to drop down specific to an animal type, but your lures make a sound specific to the animal you're trying to attract, so a deer lure, a turkey lure, also has some decoys though I haven't used them yet for certain birds. Would have made sense to have something like, you find a sign that an animal is around (like deer eating the tree bark), and then you can make the call and it will attract an animal in a certain amount of time, so you want to hide and get the drop on it.
I particularly wish these games would have tree climbing. Hunting is mostly ass in Assassin's Creed, but that's one thing they do much ebtter with their rural environments, tree climbing is basically a universal skill and the ability to hide up a tree, or get up in it to snipe from, would be a very useful feature. The same goes for enemies ambushing you from trees (would have fit really well with the Skinners and the Murfrees).
RDR1 had infinitely repeating random events that people complained about so they made all of them unique in RDR2 but it's unfortunate Rockstar didn't have the foresight to allow some repeatable tasks for people who want to play after the game ends for a while.
I agree with most of that, but Charles is listed as being a wanted member of the gang in the newspapers, so the government is aware of him. True, he is in Canada, but still.
It is perfectly feasible that Charles simply kept low in Canada and was never discovered.
It needs repeating, the actual catalyst of RDR1 was the Governor (or a candidate? I don't remember exactly) running on a platform of going after crime and specifically targeted Bill Williamson and his gang because they were such a nuisance. John was only tasked with getting Javier and Dutch when they popped up on the radar while he was going after Bill I'm pretty sure.
