Red Dead 3/Red Dead Redemption 2 - IT'S HAPPENING.gif

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TheArtilleryman said:
I think he's just very good at manipulating Dutch because both men are very similar at their core: murderous thrillseeking criminals to whom "fighting is in their nature" as Dutch put it at the end of RDR1. Micah realises this and doesn't fall for the philosophical/political yapping, he sees right through Dutch but he plays along and strokes his ego to get closer to him to eventually capitalise on it by selling him out to pinkertons.

Hosea and later Arthur both realised this but ultimately couldn't salvage the situation. The rest of the gang were too mistified by Dutch's bullshit to see what was really happening until the very end.
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This is actually a good explanation! Thanks.
 
It bothers me how Arthur who is generally pretty fairly hearted or at the very least neutral turns into a totally different person during the loan shark missions for Strauss. He acts totally out of character like he's enjoying tormenting the people he's getting the money from and it breaks immersion for me. At no other point in the game does Arthur act all weird and sociopathic like that. The writers needed him to do something truly bad so that when he catches TB it's his past catching up with him a strong theme in the game.
 
Sicko Hunter said:
It bothers me how Arthur who is generally pretty fairly hearted or at the very least neutral turns into a totally different person during the loan shark missions for Strauss. He acts totally out of character like he's enjoying tormenting the people he's getting the money from and it breaks immersion for me. At no other point in the game does Arthur act all weird and sociopathic like that. The writers needed him to do something truly bad so that when he catches TB it's his past catching up with him a strong theme in the game.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=On2JO9UqPCI
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This dialogue was probably condensed due to Rockstar's hellish work environment. The Loanshark quest dialogue set was meant for those with low honor. Other places in RDR2 feel limited, but the game was more complete than other products of that time and in the future.
 
Agent of Misinformation said:
This dialogue was probably condensed due to Rockstar's hellish work environment. The Loanshark quest dialogue set was meant for those with low honor. Other places in RDR2 feel limited, but the game was more complete than other products of that time and in the future.
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Weren't the missions one of the first things you do? There's no time to even gain/lose honor
 
Baseless assumption by me

That moment was a remnant from the earlier "Arthur is pissed his son is dead" iteration of the story. I'd think that it's such a pivotal moment to Arthurs final act that they couldn't figure out a way to change it without a total rewrite.

Moments like those are why I play (mostly) low honor until the diagnosis. It makes his "redemption" make more sense to me.
 
wtfNeedSignUp said:
Weren't the missions one of the first things you do? There's no time to even gain/lose honor
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It's early on but far enough in you should have a noticeable change in honor. It's in the later half of the second chapter. I was doing a high honor run so it was completely bizarre to see Arthur taking joy in beating an innocent man senseless.
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Sicko Hunter said:
It's early on but far enough in you should have a noticeable change in honor. It's in the later half of the second chapter. I was doing a high honor run so it was completely bizarre to see Arthur taking joy in beating an innocent man senseless.
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Arthur says he hates being muscle for the loansharking, but does it because it brings in money to the gang. I suspect at least part of his whole attitude when he gets to a place to take the money is a put on. He'd rather threaten than beat someone who is clearly down on his luck (or wouldn't be borrowing from someone like Strauss in the first place), but he also knows his place is to be the muscle so when it's time to go hands on he just does it. But you can see the subtle change in Arthur as the game goes on and the dramatic change once the Guarma adventure is over and he knows he's dying and he wants to do better with the time he has. Early Arthur wouldn't forgive Arthur Londonderry's widow of the debt, but later Arthur does. Early Arthur dislikes what Strauss does, but goes along with it because Strauss brings in money for the gang. Later Arthur tells Strauss to get a job and tosses him out of the camp. And Arthur does mention the whole affair to the nun when he sees her at the train station and how he got TB beating Downes to death.

And let's not forget that Arthur didn't go to fists with Downes until Downes attacked him with that rake, or with Chick Matthews when Matthews tried to escape on the horse, or Wrobel tried the whole "I have nothing else" and Arthur had to beat the money out of him (that he had by the way) and Lily Millet's boyfriend attacked Arthur. I don't think Arthur enjoyed beating those people, but at the same time he didn't start it.

Arthur's son is an interesting thing to consider. He only mentions him twice, once in his confession scene with the nun (the same scene when he tells her he's dying) and once with Rains Fall when they are going to get the relics back from the Army. He does say that when he found his son and baby's mother dead something inside of him hardened, but he doesn't say much about softening although he see it as the game plays out. He just becomes less and less bitter in Chapter 6, like something in him just lets go after he finds out he's dying and he doesn't need to hang on to that anger and pain and bitterness any longer. He does obliquely mention his son to John when they are herding sheep and he tells John to either be an outlaw or Jack's father; he can't do both. He doesn't mention he knows from experience, but later on we do find out his father was the same way and ended up at the end of a rope AND his own son because he too chose outlaw over fatherhood. John wouldn't make the decision to be a father and give up outlaw until the epilogue but he does eventually make the right decision.
 
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Sicko Hunter said:
It's early on but far enough in you should have a noticeable change in honor. It's in the later half of the second chapter. I was doing a high honor run so it was completely bizarre to see Arthur taking joy in beating an innocent man senseless.
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Remember; after he know about his tuberculosis, the honor bar unlocks entirely.
I think the game tells you to go into low honor before the doctor's visit (or even before Sean's death). After that is just doing good things before dying.
 
Prophetic Spirit said:
Remember; after he know about his tuberculosis, the honor bar unlocks entirely.
I think the game tells you to go into low honor before the doctor's visit (or even before Sean's death). After that is just doing good things before dying.
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I never went for the low honor approach. Arthur seems like the kind of guy who would use violence when necessary, but didn't enjoy it. He's not Micah.
 
William Murderface said:
I never went for the low honor approach. Arthur seems like the kind of guy who would use violence when necessary, but didn't enjoy it. He's not Micah.
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Arthur is a brute, not a psychopath.

When I say play "low honor" I don't mean going around shooting up the town. You shouldn't be treating the gang members like shit.

But Arthur also isn't going to be saying hi to every yahoo that passes him on the street. He's not going to be giving money to randoms when it could go to the gang. If someone talks back to him, he's going to beat them down.

Then in the later half, and he starts to see the gang for what it has become, that's when he goes back to how he was when he was young. He'll help people, maybe he won't get into fights at the drop of a hat, maybe he will start to talk back to members of the gang as they start to turn hostile.

It makes for a much more poignant "redemption" and stays consistent with how he acts during loan sharking at the start and how the gang constantly talk about how much of a brute he is.
 
Miller said:
Finally, the best game of the franchise.
I hope Undead Nightmare has online co-op.
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Steam description outright says no multiplayer content, unfortunately. I don’t think it’s something people can mod in, either.
 
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