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- May 25, 2013
Hate to double post, but tell me I'm not the only one about to go pirate the Duggar/IBLP docuseries now that it's finally dropped
🤝 Community Quiverfull Movement Lolcows - Starring the Duggars
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- Jul 4, 2022
I'm not going to watch it because accounts of child rape are too hard for me to watch/listen to, so please do a recap here. We thank you for your service.
- Joined
- May 25, 2013
thats more than fair, i assume it'll deal with CSA pretty extensively so anyone else bothered by that stuff should probably also skip it
no promises on a recap b/c mobilefag, but I'll see what I can do
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2019
Warning for anyone watching the docuseries, Jill Rodrigues shows up in I think episode 4, so if you don't want her face in yer nightmares maybe look away.
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2019
Trigger warning: Jill's face
- Joined
- May 25, 2013
Yeah I was gonna mention the surprise JillRod jumpscare. They also briefly show other tradthot influencers, but thankfully none that come close to Jill's level of sleep paralysis demon.
Still a pretty intense docuseries though. There not much in the way of new info about the Duggars specifically, but there's interviews with other IBLP survivors who talk about child abuse and sexual violence they experienced, and how it was just swept under the rug by the cult. Including abuse committed by Bill Gothard himself.
There's also info about the various facilities IBLP has spread out all over the country, and how they have a surprising amount of influence on conservative politics. Particularly by being buddy-buddy with people like Mike Huckabee and sending the most intelligent/well spoken homeschool "graduates" to D.C. directly to intern for conservative lobbying groups and influence politicians.
Jill Duggar and her husband gave some strong interviews though she wasn't comfortable going into too much detail about what Josh did (completely understandable!). She confirmed they're on the outs with Meech and Boob as well.
I hope she and her sisters are able to keep getting the therapy and support they need, and are able to keep recovering and moving past their completely fucked upbringings. She's come a long way and that is one bright spot in an incredibly fucked up and tragic situation.
Would definitely reccomend not watching if you're easily bothered by firsthand accounts of child abuse and sexual violence though. I can handle a lot but there were parts that were intense/upsetting even for me.
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2021
I watched this yesterday. I thought it was pretty good, and I liked that they spent a lot of time in the Bill G./IBLP/ATI/etc. material. And they did a nice job with people who were raised in IBLP, particularly not tipping their hand until the last episode why some of those particular people were there beyond talking about the life generally.
I thought the [Hunts? Holts? Hultons? Ugh, the guy who was also IBLP and formerly (since high school) close with Jim Bob, and his wife] were good and relatively strong presences in the series.
Overall, though, it still felt like the Duggars were opaque, impenetrable. Jill is uneven, and I think still so mentally impacted that she just doesn't say all that much (not much comment about what she thinks of the day-to-day in her home growing up, whether she has thoughts about her family/parents as parents beyond the "this is the IBLP structure" and the betrayal with the Josh stuff and the money stuff). It's a crime she didn't get an education, as I think that would give her a better toolbox to describe things (aside from the Josh stuff, which OK, understand that would be awful to have to talk about...though it was interesting that she & her husband still think it should have gone with them to their Graves, rather than exposing some realities and seeing Josh in jail).
Overall, seems she and her husband got very lucky in compatibility with each other, given how they came about and where they are now.
The other children remain behind the opaque glass altogether, even Ginger, who I think was the one they were talking about a little more toward the end.
Lol they did a pretty decently subtlely snide job of portraying Michelle's weird affect...and the darkness of the role she plays. I'd imagine the production/output was heavily layered, and actually made far better for it. Though far less sensational than even a 48 Hours or Nightline episode, and so a bit less juicy than were used to in the last 30 years, I have now talked myself into thinking it worked as a manifestation of the opacity of the Duggars in particular (even beyond the expected closed nature of cult/cult-like organizations/IBLF).
Loved the Jill jumpscare!
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2022
She did actually have one child last year, a son. The birth was disastrous, and she ended up being rushed to the hospital. They weren't entirely sure she'd live. The child-rearing is going about as you'd expect: Morgan does everything, while Paul tries to launch a YouTube channel for children.
I just wish he'd let her take her medication, but alas. She hasn't started taking it again, so here's hoping there are plenty of eyes on the child.
I can't imagine a scenario, with or without religion, where those two are anything but worthless. Morgan would be better if she was back on medication, but Paul is just useless.
- Joined
- May 25, 2013
I don't know much about them and it sounds like they're a rabbit hole as well. Would anyone be able to post a rundown in Quiverfull Gen?
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2020
In fairness, mainstream society labels everyone who isn't mainstream as sex abusers, so it doesn't have much sting. Goth? SEX ABUSER. Amish? SEX ABUSER. Gay? SEX ABUSER. Vegan? SEX ABUSER. Trans woman who is a former Catholic who converted to Unitarianism? Oh, definitely a sex abuser!
Sometimes, just the facts will do without trying to make sweeping generalizations.
- Joined
- May 25, 2013
Unfortunately the facts about IBLP are that it was created by a sex pest and the belief system is geared around enabling other sex pests. It's like FLDS.
For people like Jill, it lets her abuse and neglect her kids while still getting to feel like she's a gawdly wonderful mother just because she had so many and restricts their interaction with the outside world.
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2020
I agree on IBLP being founded by someone who used his position to sexually harass women, but the trouble is rather than focusing on that and the behavior of the Duggars (tangible things and real life events), it becomes about how gross and weird Christians as a whole are. And then they wonder why people like me have no time for them. It went way off in the weeds. I don't think it's evil or satanic. When they sensationalize how "evil" it is to let autistic people exist in the world peacefully, maybe you will get it.
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2021
If he came onto (and more) the young women in that documentary who described (or implied - again, that series was incredibly stripped of just about any direct statement) his behavior, he did far more than "sexually harass women." These girls/women were vulnerable on many, many fronts, in large part (though not only) due to being brought up as he himself led them to be. Exploitation, intimidation, and manipulation of vulnerable people for sexual gain is a step beyond "sexual harassment."
(Which is to say, harassment can be done to vulnerable people, but doesnt always include the aspects of position, age, acculturation, power, "the right thing to do,""the way to please God/authority/your family," etc., which is the heart of the IBLP story.)
Interesting. I didn't get that sense of being anti-Christian in general, and I usually hate broad-brush hate going in any direction and so am usually attuned to and turned off by it. I do admit to doing other things while watching the 4th episode, as by that point, other than being drawn in by realizing that some of the commenters throughout the series were among those who got to meet and be around Goddard and weren't there just as general ex-members of the sect, I had gotten the picture, so maybe I missed it. Are there specific examples of criticisms lumping together all Christians/Christianity as a whole as equally sex-abusive as IBLP was being discussed as being?
As an aside, I don't think "mainstream society" labels everyone out of "common" as sex abusers. Sure, there are reality shows and exposes of some Amish corruption, for example, but by and large, people still view Amish (individuals and sect) as wholesome curiosities. I don't think people think that Catholics are abusive as a whole, and despite what is actually widely known about how the church has worked forever, the church still gets a general pass and its adherents aren't broadly individually tainted by it.
Having harsh or even hyperbolic critics, or getting one's very dirty laundry aired, doesn't necessarily mean broad mainstream condemnation.
- Joined
- May 25, 2013
See, I don't think the docuseries did that at all. I think it was pretty focused on IBLP and how Bill Gothard perverted the teachings of Christianity for his own gain. Even on the various fundie snarking subreddits, a lot of the posters are Christians and talk about the difference between what the Bible actually says vs. Fundie cult bastardizations (like insisting the "spare the rod" bit is about beating your kids when it's actually about guiding and protecting them. Shepherds use the rods to gently steer and boop the sheep, not hit them)
I also liked how the docuseries pointed out how regular, good people fall into IBLP because of the appealing promises it makes. Like any other cult, it presents an appealing image of a loving community and an easy way to ensure a happy family. No one would join cults if they didn't look appealing, after all.
Unfortunately it also appeals to people like Jill and Jimboob Duggar who use it to get away with shit and for narcissistic supply.
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2020
I respect your opinion, @Friend of Dorothy Parker, but yes, mainstream society certainly does label people from those groups of terrible things, and members who have not participated in those things are labeled as such and have real struggles. Believe you me.
And believe you me, the kinds of people who make this hyperbolic poison disguised as honey will happily do it to you.
@Android raptor Jim Bob clearly has always valued money above God and everything else. May God have mercy on his soul.
And believe you me, the kinds of people who make this hyperbolic poison disguised as honey will happily do it to you.
@Android raptor Jim Bob clearly has always valued money above God and everything else. May God have mercy on his soul.
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- Joined
- Jul 4, 2022
Maybe you should examine why you feel personally attacked by a documentary about a child-abusing sex pest cult. Is it about your own sect? Why does it trouble you so much? You sound a bit like those troons who get "concerned" every time a troon rapist has to go to a men's prison.
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2019
he doesn't have a sect, this is entirely a LARP
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2020
I am not currently a member of what most people would consider a conservative church. That's correct.
I don't feel personally attacked and I have no problem with known criminals being held accountable for their crimes. Josh Duggar has not been held accountable for the rapes of his sisters and the other girl.
What did you think I was saying?
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2022
This won't be a great rundown, but I'll try. Since they were featured in the documentary, it's probably as good a time as any to mention them. I can mine the Fundie Snark subreddit for supporting images, if there's any interest.
So, Paul and Morgan Olliges:
They're a young married couple, very influencer-y, very focused on achieving fame. Neither one wants to work a real job, so they're both desperate to succeed in the influencersphere. Paul trained as a hairdresser/stylist and did work as one for a time, though he hasn't worked a job in recent history. I can't remember if Morgan has ever worked a normal job, but she initially tried to make it as a singer-- as in a mainstream singer.
The singing career didn't take off, and she's now best-known, however dubiously, for the "Abortion Song."
They don't yet have a full quiver, because Morgan really struggled to get pregnant. They prayed, they tried natural-ish things, but nothing worked. Finally, she went to a standard doctor, and then she almost immediately got pregnant. I don't remember if she ever said what the diagnosis was, but it was clear that the doctor they'd so long avoided was able to diagnose and treat whatever the issue was. They have one son, whose name is Luca. God chose the name (as in, God told them to name the baby "Luca Grace," even though that seems like it's a girl's name).
The childbirth was traumatic. They made the choice so popular among people featured on this website (not limited to fundies) and went with a unqualified midwife. Morgan ended up in the hospital (after trying to have a home birth), and it wasn't clear whether or not she'd survive (hemorrhaging, if memory serves). Needless to say, they didn't learn anything at all from this event and sang the praises of the unqualified midwife rather than the team of doctors who saved Morgan and the baby. Morgan was specifically opposed to a midwife who "knows more than I do" (paraphrasing, but that's what she said), which goes a long way to explaining how she ended up in the hospital in such dire straits.
Throughout the pregnancy and after the birth, they made videos where Morgan would say that she didn't feel up to having sex and was struggling. Paul would then say that they were adhering to their sex schedule anyway (because yes, they have a sex schedule), because Morgan does not get to say no to sex. Paul, incidentally, blamed Morgan for the infertility and has said it was because she was on birth control in the past.
Which seems like a good time to bring up one of the most popular Paul and Morgan stories: when they were saying their wedding vows, Morgan threw up. Most would take this as a sign that maybe you're not feeling great about the marriage.
She had reasons not to feel great about it. She wasn't always a very conservative Christian and had lived "mainstream" life, so to speak, before getting together with Paul. She wasn't even a virgin when they married, which is something Paul is openly critical of to this day. Morgan has Borderline Personality Disorder and used to take medication for what is apparently an array of mental health problems. Paul, though, did not want her to continue to take medication, so she's been off of it for some time now.
Paul is openly critical of interracial couples, and Morgan joins him in this criticism. They really want to be popular conservative commentators, but that hasn't taken off yet. If there's a popular talking point in the conservative commentary circles, they will be sure to openly parrot it. Their thirst for fame is one of the most notable things about them, and I'm not surprised they agreed to be in the Duggar documentary.
Morgan does all the childcare while Paul posts on social media. He's been trying to make a go of a Christian YouTube channel for children, which is called (brace yourselves) "Paulie-O." It's wildly unsuccessful, as of this writing. They both pick up and discard social media ventures at a breakneck pace. My impression is that they're looking for instant viral success and won't/can't stick with anything that doesn't provide that.
I don't think that this couple is necessarily Quiverfull, like the Duggars. They're conservative Christians, but they're not in the same vein as the Duggars or the Rods in that they very much embrace some aspects of "secular" culture, like fashions and trends-- things the Duggars and Rods explicitly reject. They very much want to be young, hip Christian influencers, and their desperation is pretty apparent.
My editorial: I find them utterly insufferable, because they embrace the very worst aspects of influencer culture and the most intolerant aspects of fundamentalism. They do seem (to me) to enjoy being abrasive ("politically incorrect" or whatever it's called now), so they make it a point to say the most sensational and controversial things they can. How deeply they believe any of this is anyone's guess. They never actually seem happy, and I don't think they're living authentically. Morgan needs her meds, and Paul needs to be slapped silly. And both will do anything at all to avoid getting a real job. They're shrill and unlikeable, very self-assured without one single reason to merit their high opinions of themselves.
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2020
I wonder why if they're so clout hungry why they don't go to IHOP in KC. That's where all the cool young Christian musicians go.
Paul could get a grift going running a prayer room and if Morgan is good, she might be able to get something going. Looks like a couple of lazy grifters.
Paul could get a grift going running a prayer room and if Morgan is good, she might be able to get something going. Looks like a couple of lazy grifters.