EU Pope Francis is dead - GOOD. FUCKING. RIDDANCE.

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Francis became pope in 2013. In recent years, the 88-year-old was forced to cancel some events, sometimes at the last minute, because of his health.

Pope Francis has died at the age of 88, the Vatican has announced.
The pontiff, who was Bishop of Rome and head of the Catholic Church, became pope in 2013 after his predecessor Benedict XVI resigned.
In recent years, his papacy had been marked by several hospital visits and concerns about his health.
On 14 February, the Pope was admitted to hospital for bronchitis treatment.
In the days that followed, the Vatican said he had been diagnosed with bilateral pneumonia and that he had blood transfusions after tests revealed he had low levels of platelets in his blood, which is associated with anaemia.
On 22 February, it said the Pope was in a critical condition after a "prolonged respiratory crisis" that required a high flow of oxygen, and the next day the Vatican said Francis was showing an "initial, mild" kidney failure.
In the following days, thousands of faithful gathered in St Peter's Square to pray for his recovery, as others went to the Rome hospital where he was staying to leave flowers and cards.
He remained in hospital for the rest of the month, with doctors saying that his condition remained "complex".
On 6 March, his voice was heard for the first time since being admitted to hospital in an audio message, in which he thanked well-wishers, before adding: "I am with you from here."
On Sunday, he greeted crowds at the Easter Sunday Service.
His 38-day hospital stay ended on 23 March when he made his first public appearance in five weeks on a balcony at Gemelli where he smiled and gave a thumbs up to the crowds gathered outside.
He returned to the Vatican, making a surprise stop at his favourite basilica on the way home, before beginning two months of prescribed rest and recovery.
Doctors said Francis would have access to supplemental oxygen and 24-hour medical care as needed - adding that while the pneumonia infection had been successfully treated, the pontiff would continue to take oral medication for quite some time to treat the fungal infection in his lungs and continue his respiratory and physical physiotherapy.

'People's Pope'
Born in 1936, Francis was the first pope from South America. His papacy was marked by his championing of those escaping war and hunger, as well as those in poverty, earning him the moniker the "People's Pope".
In 2016, he washed the feet of refugees from different religions at an asylum centre outside Rome in a "gesture of humility and service".
He also made his views known on a wide range of issues, from climate change to wealth inequality and the role of women in the Catholic Church.
His acceptance of the LGBTQ community was unprecedented - beginning with an unexpected remark to reporters on a flight back from Brazil about gay clergy.
He said: "If a person is gay and seeks God and has good will, who am I to judge them?"
However, in April 2024 he appeared to reiterate the Vatican's staunch opposition to gender reassignment, surrogacy, abortion and euthanasia, by signing the text "Dignitas Infinita" (Infinite Dignity).
In the same year, his own liberal credentials were questioned after reports he used a homophobic slur behind closed doors.
Pope's health in recent years
As a young man in his native Argentina, Francis had part of one lung removed.
In the last few years of his life, Francis needed a wheelchair or a cane to get around and limited his public speaking while struggling with bronchitis and flu.
Francis first spent time in hospital as pope in 2021 for an operation to remove part of his colon.
In June 2023 he was admitted to hospital for an operation on his intestine. At the time, the Vatican said he had been suffering "recurrent, painful and worsening" symptoms caused by an abdominal hernia.
His recent health issues meant he was forced to miss significant events in the Roman Catholic calendar, including the traditional Good Friday procession at Rome's Colosseum last year.
In 2022, he hinted he might step down if his health deteriorated after he was pictured using a wheelchair due to mobility issues caused by a flare-up of sciatica - a nerve condition that causes leg pain.
His predecessor, the late Benedict XVI, became the first pope to resign in more than 600 years in 2013 instead of serving for life, and died in 2022.
The Pope's original name was Jorge Mario Bergoglio and he previously served as a bishop in Buenos Aires.
An estimated 1.4 billion Catholics across the world will mourn Francis' passing.
 
This is something we can argue for a thousand pages (or a thousand years as has been the case) and never agree upon. Realistically the solution would be to clarify exactly what "filioque" means, and that alone would be an enormous undertaking.

Overall the attitude is it's a nonessential component of the Creed in the Catholic Church as it refers to Pentecost more than anything....i.e. the Holy Spirit descended upon the upper room because of Christ's Ascension.
Even if we throw away all the theological implications of the filioque and come to a mutual understanding its not gonna fix the issue because it was a gross overeach of papal power which is what the true dispute has been about.

Personally I don't even think the filioque from a theological perspective was even the real reason for the schism, it was just used as an excuse.

I think the pope just made it up to spite the rest of the churches by essentially saying "I can do whatever I want and you can get bent." which is completely unacceptable because it was the pope essentially declaring himself to be the god emperor of christianity. It was a symbolic act.

It amazes me retards think the Great Schism was about religion rather than power.
That's literally what I've been saying.

If it wasn't the filioque it would have been something else. The pope just needed one action of his to bypass the Ecumenical council to send the message that he doesn't need nor want them. It could have been literally anything, it just happened to be the filioque because it happened to be easy and convinient at the time.
 
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I think the pope just made it up to spite the rest of the churches by essentially saying "I can do whatever I want and you can get bent." which is completely unacceptable because it was the pope essentially declaring himself to be the god emperor of christianity. It was a symbolic act.
It wasn't that at all, the filioque emerged organically in the Latin Church and was eventually adopted by the Pope.

We just grew apart over time, exacerbated by the collapse of the Western Empire. Even well before Rome fell, there were notable differences between the Latin and Greek churches.
 
I point out that it is possible to believe most headlines are a demoralization campaign "and" that Francis was a bad pope. The two thoughts are not mutually exclusive.
 
It wasn't that at all, the filioque emerged organically in the Latin Church and was eventually adopted by the Pope.
The pope cannot just change church doctrine on a whim without consulting the ecumenical council which is literally its sole reason for existing.

I am not even entirely against the filioque from a theological perspective, but what the pope did was clearly a power grab.
 
And yet we disagree. Fascinating how the world works how you're allowed to have differing opinions on the same thing. Again, you are larping bro. I've done this my whole life. It's why i hold none of this fake malice towards the Catholics. A member of their family just died. I'm going to show my respect and not sperg about uniting all the churches. lmao even.
"Here's the bare minimum, not an exhaustive checklist, the bare minimum of what a Christian is, written in part by those who actually knew Jesus."
"We disagree with 95% of that, but we're gonna call ourselves 'Christian' anyways because we like the pr."

Spiritually troon-coded.
 
Well RIP, I suppose. Hope the next Pope's less of a cuck to modernity.

What baffles me about the Pentarchy is why Rome was given such a gigantic territory. You can already see the roots of the Great Schism in the 6th century.

Rome was the Capital of the Empire. One of the titles of the Pope is "Pontifex Maximus". This is a title that goes all the way back to the Roman Republic era. The Pontifex Maximus was the chief civil administrator of the temples in the City of Rome. When Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire, the Bishop of Rome became the Pontifex Maximus (In practice, if not title since the Emperor claimed it) and assumed civil administrative responsibilities along with his ministerial and spiritual duties.

It was inevitable that as the tug of war between Rome and Constantinople accelerated the power struggle would involve the church too.
I would also add that the early Christian Church was consistently stronger in the Eastern half of the Roman Empire (you know, where it originated) and that not only were there more pagans in the West pretty much up until the end of the WRE (IIRC even the last Western emperor Romulus Augustulus' grandpa was one), but the West was also the half increasingly overrun by pagan or heretic (Arian) barbarians. And of course the West had been the base of the pro-pagan forces from Julian the Apostate to Eugenius & Arbogast, while the East was the base of their Christian adversaries. It would've made sense to try to consolidate the less numerous but more geographically spread-out Christians of the Occident under one patriarch than to further dilute & disperse their comparatively thin ranks in the face of the then-still-real danger of a Roman pagan resurgence and the various hostile barbs.

Welp, I guess nobody at the time foresaw developments like the Franks catapulting from a very minor backwater tribe (they weren't important and barely even lived on former Roman territory until they destroyed the last substantial territorial remnant of the WRE, the Gallo-Roman domain of Soissons, in 486) into the great Western European powerhouse & the first Catholic 'barbarian' kingdom in the span of a few decades. Or the Visigoths also ditching Arianism and accepting Catholicism in the late 500s. These, coupled with heresies spiraling out of control in the East (Miaphysites in Egypt & Syria, Nestorians in the Mideast generally, etc.) and undermining the authority of the orthodox Patriarchs beyond Constantinople, were the sorts of things that made the Pentarchy's situation truly unbalanced.
 
The pope cannot just change church doctrine on a whim without consulting the ecumenical council which is literally its sole reason for existing.

I am not even entirely against the filioque from a theological perspective, but what the pope did was clearly a power grab.
We have to agree to disagree on this one.
 
We have to agree to disagree on this one.
You do not think changing church docrtine using solely your own authority while bypassing the council whom everyone has agreed to use to change church doctrine, thereby inadvertently claiming that your authority superseedes that of the council, is an overreach of power?
 
You do not think changing church docrtine using solely your own authority while bypassing the council whom everyone has agreed to use to change church doctrine, thereby inadvertently claiming that your authority superseedes that of the council, is an overreach of power?
We have to agree to disagree. It would take a whole hell of a lot more than an Internet thread on Kiwifarms to get into this in detail.

It's also the Octave of Easter for both of us so let's take a break from sectarianism and reflect on the fact He is risen.
 
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