EU Pope Francis is dead - GOOD. FUCKING. RIDDANCE.

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Francis became pope in 2013. In recent years, the 88-year-old was forced to cancel some events, sometimes at the last minute, because of his health.

Pope Francis has died at the age of 88, the Vatican has announced.
The pontiff, who was Bishop of Rome and head of the Catholic Church, became pope in 2013 after his predecessor Benedict XVI resigned.
In recent years, his papacy had been marked by several hospital visits and concerns about his health.
On 14 February, the Pope was admitted to hospital for bronchitis treatment.
In the days that followed, the Vatican said he had been diagnosed with bilateral pneumonia and that he had blood transfusions after tests revealed he had low levels of platelets in his blood, which is associated with anaemia.
On 22 February, it said the Pope was in a critical condition after a "prolonged respiratory crisis" that required a high flow of oxygen, and the next day the Vatican said Francis was showing an "initial, mild" kidney failure.
In the following days, thousands of faithful gathered in St Peter's Square to pray for his recovery, as others went to the Rome hospital where he was staying to leave flowers and cards.
He remained in hospital for the rest of the month, with doctors saying that his condition remained "complex".
On 6 March, his voice was heard for the first time since being admitted to hospital in an audio message, in which he thanked well-wishers, before adding: "I am with you from here."
On Sunday, he greeted crowds at the Easter Sunday Service.
His 38-day hospital stay ended on 23 March when he made his first public appearance in five weeks on a balcony at Gemelli where he smiled and gave a thumbs up to the crowds gathered outside.
He returned to the Vatican, making a surprise stop at his favourite basilica on the way home, before beginning two months of prescribed rest and recovery.
Doctors said Francis would have access to supplemental oxygen and 24-hour medical care as needed - adding that while the pneumonia infection had been successfully treated, the pontiff would continue to take oral medication for quite some time to treat the fungal infection in his lungs and continue his respiratory and physical physiotherapy.

'People's Pope'
Born in 1936, Francis was the first pope from South America. His papacy was marked by his championing of those escaping war and hunger, as well as those in poverty, earning him the moniker the "People's Pope".
In 2016, he washed the feet of refugees from different religions at an asylum centre outside Rome in a "gesture of humility and service".
He also made his views known on a wide range of issues, from climate change to wealth inequality and the role of women in the Catholic Church.
His acceptance of the LGBTQ community was unprecedented - beginning with an unexpected remark to reporters on a flight back from Brazil about gay clergy.
He said: "If a person is gay and seeks God and has good will, who am I to judge them?"
However, in April 2024 he appeared to reiterate the Vatican's staunch opposition to gender reassignment, surrogacy, abortion and euthanasia, by signing the text "Dignitas Infinita" (Infinite Dignity).
In the same year, his own liberal credentials were questioned after reports he used a homophobic slur behind closed doors.
Pope's health in recent years
As a young man in his native Argentina, Francis had part of one lung removed.
In the last few years of his life, Francis needed a wheelchair or a cane to get around and limited his public speaking while struggling with bronchitis and flu.
Francis first spent time in hospital as pope in 2021 for an operation to remove part of his colon.
In June 2023 he was admitted to hospital for an operation on his intestine. At the time, the Vatican said he had been suffering "recurrent, painful and worsening" symptoms caused by an abdominal hernia.
His recent health issues meant he was forced to miss significant events in the Roman Catholic calendar, including the traditional Good Friday procession at Rome's Colosseum last year.
In 2022, he hinted he might step down if his health deteriorated after he was pictured using a wheelchair due to mobility issues caused by a flare-up of sciatica - a nerve condition that causes leg pain.
His predecessor, the late Benedict XVI, became the first pope to resign in more than 600 years in 2013 instead of serving for life, and died in 2022.
The Pope's original name was Jorge Mario Bergoglio and he previously served as a bishop in Buenos Aires.
An estimated 1.4 billion Catholics across the world will mourn Francis' passing.
 
Unless the Orthodox churches are willing to submit to Rome there is no chance of unification between the churches.
Not gonna happen. And why should they? The idea of the bishop of Rome being primus inter pares had worked for centuries up until the Carolinian Era when the See of Rome, backed by a European superpower, started trying to throw its self-assumed weight around.

After the past 65 years worth of popes, I'd say the church in Rome's claimed position as the supreme authority of all things ecclesiastical is on rather flimsy legs, nicht wahr?
 
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Holding out hope for that Hungarian Cardinal. He's been pretty vocal about reaching out to Eastern Orthodoxy and trying to bring the church back together. The amount of issues facing the Church these days are so grave and numerous that the schism is proving to be very counter productive. Its not helped by the fact that the Orthodox are internally divided, largely due to politics. The Kiev and Moscow patriarchates have excommunicated each other recently, for obvious reasons.
Why would an eastern orthodox return to a non Christian church? Schism would appear to be the correct path forward given who that Francis already safeguarded his successors election. The catholic church has fallen. Perhaps it's best for actual Christians to go where god is rather than languish among the pedophiles and prostitutes.
 
Not gonna happen. And why should they? The idea of the bishop of Rome being primus inter pares had worked for centuries up until the Carolinian Era when the See of Rome, backed by a European superpower, started trying to throw its self-assumed weight around.
What baffles me about the Pentarchy is why Rome was given such a gigantic territory. You can already see the roots of the Great Schism in the 6th century.
 
Unless the Orthodox churches are willing to submit to Rome there is no chance of unification between the churches.

We can get closer on theological matters and ecumenical efforts since the differences are really insignificant (especially given the permissions given to the Eastern Catholic churches, e.g. no filioque in the Creed) but in terms of ecclesiastical structure it's impossible. The last time it was tried was because Byzantium was on death's door and the EO churches don't recognize the council anyways.
Ecumenical efforts I think should be the focus rather then structural and governing. At a minimum I feel there should be a new unified creed promulgated in the modern era and set to doctrine that all Christian Churches must adhere too in order to be declared "Christian". Be they Catholic, Orthodox, or mainline Protestant. It doesn't even have to be changed from the original Nicaea council. Just reiterated after another council. The window dressing and so on can be just that. The Church needs to address the proliferation of protestant heresies and apostasies, as well as the threat posed by hostile religions like Islam, Hinduism, Liberalism and African Shamanism.
 
We can get closer on theological matters and ecumenical efforts since the differences are really insignificant (especially given the permissions given to the Eastern Catholic churches, e.g. no filioque in the Creed) but in terms of ecclesiastical structure it's impossible.
The pope deciding to include the filioque in the creed is the equivallent to trans activists going "trans women ARE women".

Just because you sat down and decided something in your basement doesn't make it true. Even if we throw away all the theological implications of the filioque it was a gross overeach of papal power which is what the true dispute has been about. (the afomentioned ecclesiastical structure)

The pope isn't the king of christianity and he doesn't get to do whatever the fuck he wants without the other churches, that's what the Ecumenical council is for.

The schism between the churches exists because one day the pope decided "I am the senate
Ecumenical council" and told the east to get bent.

The only way for the churches to reunite is for the pope to admit he isn't the god emperor and that shit is never happening because the entire catholic dogma more or less exists as a result of one man's powertrip that all his succesors have kept up because nobody steps away from power voluntarily.
 
Ecumenical efforts I think should be the focus rather then structural and governing. At a minimum I feel there should be a new unified creed promulgated in the modern era and set to doctrine that all Christian Churches must adhere too in order to be declared "Christian". Be they Catholic, Orthodox, or mainline Protestant. It doesn't even have to be changed from the original Nicaea council. Just reiterated after another council. The window dressing and so on can be just that. The Church needs to address the proliferation of protestant heresies and apostasies, as well as the threat posed by hostile religions like Islam, Hinduism, Liberalism and African Shamanism.
That infringes on every other Christian church. I feel bad for the Catholic's at the moment, i really do, they've been kind to us Mormons under Francis. Its not their place to declare themselves the "true church". All of us are anyway. That is the fun of it. In the end it depends on the hearts of the faithful to choose their own path.
 
Why would an eastern orthodox return to a non Christian church? Schism would appear to be the correct path forward given who that Francis already safeguarded his successors election. The catholic church has fallen. Perhaps it's best for actual Christians to go where god is rather than languish among the pedophiles and prostitutes.
The Roman Catholic Church, love them or hate them, are the largest branch of Christianity. If the Church is to endure, it can't do it without it. Lets also not pretend the Orthodox aren't just as schismatic and at each others throats all the time too.
 
That infringes on every other Christian church. I feel bad for the Catholic's at the moment, i really do, they've been kind to us Mormons under Francis. Its not their place to declare themselves the "true church". All of us are anyway. That is the fun of it. In the end it depends on the hearts of the faithful to choose their own path.
I like you, you are very earnest. But you need to understand that Mormonism is not Christianity. Its so far removed in fact that its not even in the same realm as the Episcopalian church which is an Apostasy. I tend to lump Mormons in the same boat as Buddhists and Muslims. Devoted followers, probably does alot of spiritual good for them in their personal lives. Provides morals and ethics. But it is not Christianity. Doesn't even share a similar theological root. Its a completely separate religion with no ties to the church. No filial ties, no historical ties, no cultural ties, and certainly no doctrinal ties.
 
That infringes on every other Christian church. I feel bad for the Catholic's at the moment, i really do, they've been kind to us Mormons under Francis. Its not their place to declare themselves the "true church". All of us are anyway. That is the fun of it. In the end it depends on the hearts of the faithful to choose their own path.
No. I’m sorry. I don’t know what religion is true but it is DEFINITELY not Mormonism.

I’d put the odds of Mormons being right only slightly above Muslims. And both are astronomically low.
 
Why would an eastern orthodox return to a non Christian church? Schism would appear to be the correct path forward given who that Francis already safeguarded his successors election. The catholic church has fallen. Perhaps it's best for actual Christians to go where god is rather than languish among the pedophiles and prostitutes.

What baffles me about the Pentarchy is why Rome was given such a gigantic territory. You can already see the roots of the Great Schism in the 6th century.
It amazes me retards think the Great Schism was about religion rather than power.
 
Even if we throw away all the theological implications of the filioque it was a gross overeach of papal power which is what the true dispute has been about. (the afomentioned ecclesiastical structure)
While I disagree with the theology that denies the  filioque, I do agree that its inclusion should have been hashed out at an ecumenical council, not just imposed on the Church (which only the west accepted) by an imperious bishop in Rome (which hadn't even been  Rome for centuries by that point).
 
I like you, you are very earnest. But you need to understand that Mormonism is not Christianity. Its so far removed in fact that its not even in the same realm as the Episcopalian church which is an Apostasy. I tend to lump Mormons in the same boat as Buddhists and Muslims. Devoted followers, probably does alot of spiritual good for them in their personal lives. Provides morals and ethics. But it is not Christianity.
If you want to be technical, we are non trinitarian Christianity, yet we are still christian. You are wrong. If you were right, the pope would have denied us from building a temple in Rome. Also our official doctrine calls ourselves Christian, so... lol
 
We are non trinitarian Christianity
Which means you are not Christian. Christianity is a very specific thing, and on that specific thing even the Orthodox, Roman Catholics and non Apostasy Protestants can agree. If you do not accept Christ as the Son of God, the God in Three Persons incarnate, the Resurrection of the Dead, The Forgiveness of Sins, and the Life of the World to come, you cannot by definition be a Christian.
 
At a minimum I feel there should be a new unified creed promulgated in the modern era and set to doctrine that all Christian Churches must adhere too in order to be declared "Christian". Be they Catholic, Orthodox, or mainline Protestant. It doesn't even have to be changed from the original Nicaea council.
The Nicene Creed is perfect, it's the total encapsulation of orthodox Christian faith. There's no need for anything else as all of the theological differences between the Protestants, Catholics and Orthodox follow Chalcedon.

Just because you sat down and decided something in your basement doesn't make it true. Even if we throw away all the theological implications of the filioque it was a gross overeach of papal power which is what the true dispute has been about. (the afomentioned ecclesiastical structure)
This is something we can argue for a thousand pages (or a thousand years as has been the case) and never agree upon. Realistically the solution would be to clarify exactly what "filioque" means, and that alone would be an enormous undertaking.

Overall the attitude is it's a nonessential component of the Creed in the Catholic Church as it refers to Pentecost more than anything....i.e. the Holy Spirit descended upon the upper room because of Christ's Ascension.
 
Which means you are not Christian. Christianity is a very specific thing, and on that specific thing even the Orthodox, Roman Catholics and non Apostasy Protestants can agree
And yet we disagree. Fascinating how the world works how you're allowed to have differing opinions on the same thing. Again, you are larping bro. I've done this my whole life. It's why i hold none of this fake malice towards the Catholics. A member of their family just died. I'm going to show my respect and not sperg about uniting all the churches. lmao even.
 
The Roman Catholic Church, love them or hate them, are the largest branch of Christianity. If the Church is to endure, it can't do it without it. Lets also not pretend the Orthodox aren't just as schismatic and at each others throats all the time too.
The orthodox offer things the catholic church no longer offers. A culture that puts fellow Christians first and demands sacrifice from the congregation. Clear boundaries of what is and isn't acceptable behavior. And most of all, faith.

You'll barely even find a catholic who abstains from eating meat on Friday's anymore. Much less is willing to participate in the community beyond showing up for weekly mass.

Catholicism is luke warm Christianity. They have little faith and no zeal for what faith they do have. How can you even begin to save and convert somebody when you openly teach and believe that their way of life is just as valid as yours?
 
Shame, but frankly his death was the best gift he could give to Catholicism, and he will not be missed. I would say I hope the next Pope isn't evil, but unfortunately, Francis very successfully purged righteous men from the Church and replaced almost all the voting Cardinals with evil men who will pick a suitable successor for Francis to carry out his wicked works. Not remotely surprised that atheist progressives are lamenting his loss and lecturing others on a faith they are willfully ignorant of, and loathe with every fiber of their being. It's very telling when virtually the only people who liked Francis are progressives.

Yeah, I’m beginning to think @Preacher ✝ might be the only actual Christian in this thread.

I hope you had a good Easter, mate, and I look forward to reading your posts about the upcoming conclave.

Just know that this Reddit tier atheist enjoys your posts and always finds them interesting whilst you wade through the dross the trad LARPers are posting.
>heretic loves a heretic lying about Christianity

Classic. Seriously, every single time you see people bleating about how Jesus was secretly a far left lunatic, they are actually some variety of heretic who is only interested in defiling Christianity. I bet Mr. "Preacher" is the one LARPing, and you are eating it up with a spoon. Anyone else find it amusing that the only "good Christians" are the ones who suck up to atheists and anti-Christians whilst having absolutely zero self respect or dignity to speak of? No wonder Christianity is dying an ignoble and unmourned death when the people who are its supposed stewards are those most desperate to destroy the religion and subvert it to appease heretics that despise them.
Because people aren't perfect and life is messy. If two people are in a sinful relationship but also feel genuine love for one another it would be the kind of situation they need a lot of help to navigate together.
Aaaaaand there it is, he proved that my suspicion was completely correct. "It didn't happen. Ok, it happened but not the way you think. Ok, it happened but actually it's a good thing and we need more of it." "Preacher" is a progressive who is wearing Catholicism as a skin suit to justify and defend his real faith.
 
If you want to be technical, we are non trinitarian Christianity, yet we are still christian. You are wrong. If you were right, the pope would have denied us from building a temple in Rome. Also our official doctrine calls ourselves Christian, so... lol
Just because you identify as Christian doesn’t mean you are one.

Are Mormons "Christians" as defined by traditional Christianity?​

The answer to that question is easy and straightforward: "no."

 
And yet we disagree. Fascinating how the world works how you're allowed to have differing opinions on the same thing.
Its not a question of me disagreeing with you. You are allowed to define reality however you like. But it would still be wrong. I rather would prefer the Mormons would just drop the pretense entirely and fully embrace the fact that they are their own thing.
 
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