Pokémon (Not-So) Griefing Thread - Scarlet and Violet Released with 10 Million Copies in First 3 Days in Buggy States

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negativlad said:
Someone once raised a good point about Fairy being weak to Steel and Poison being rooted in folklore, but on the other hand, Steel and Poison were both fucking wretched offensively (Steel only SE against the defensively-laughable Rock and Ice types, Poison only hit Grass) while Dragons needed a nerf post-Salamance/Latios/Garchomp/etc.
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The folklore bit covers the Steel type for the most part. The usage of “cold iron” to ward off witches, ghosts, fairies, and other malevolent supernatural entities it pretty damned old (a good example of such is the old wives’ tale about hanging a horseshoe above your front door bringing good luck, although it did originally started out as a way of warding off evil spirits).
AnotherPleb said:
Yeah, Fairy was made solely as a response to Gen 5. Though I don't remember immediately what bug type was tearing up Gen 5 besides Genesect.
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IIRC Scizor was also heavily present in VGC at the time.
 
I_Lurk_Here said:
I'm pretty sure a good few type matchups are made for the purpose of balance. See: the entire Fairy type.
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I understand that Fairies were meant to counter all the prevalent types of Gen 5 like Fighting and especially Dragon but it doesn't sit right with me how it also made Steel more important when its already been a historically great type for things like Skarmory, Metagross, Heatran and whatnot. Steel literally resists more than half of all types except it now also counters the big "anti meta" type.

AnotherPleb said:
Could the nerf be for U-Turn?
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Thats the thing I see people most often theorize about and its badly handled if this is what they were going for.
Bug sucks now even harder on offense and U turn is still primarily used for switching out and scouting what your opponent does, people never really cared about dealing Bug effective damage.
 
IIRC it was Genesect, Scizor, and Volcarona that were the main Bug concerns. I’m not sure Quiver Dance/Hurricane Butterfree was a thing yet, and Heracross had been a mid-tier pick for a while. I don’t remember too many Signal Beam or Infestation users except maybe a swap Shuckle. Clearly, Bug is utterly unstoppable.
 
negativlad said:
or Infestation users except maybe a swap Shuckle
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I unironically use an Infestation Shuckle. Shucke is my #1 favorite bug type, with Shedinja being #2

Item: Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 228 Def / 28 SpD
Careful Nature (although any + Def/SDef will do, just swap the points so that both of them are 553)
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rest
- Toxic
- Infestation
- Shell Smash

It's the ONLY stall set I've ever used. Otherwise all of my pokemon have always been aggressive attackers.
 
Friendly Primarina said:
Fighting/Bug resist one another. As of the most recent games, is there another type matchup where two different types resist one other? I'm poring over a type chart and I can't see one, but it's easy to get lost in the squares :story:
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Celebrate Nite said:
They don't resist, but normal and ghost are immune to each other
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Poison and Bug were both super effective against each other in Gen 1. Gen 2 changed it so that Poison is resisted by Bug but does neutral damage to it.
 
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Ilikeoreos said:
Poison and Bug were both super effective against each other in Gen 1. Gen 2 changed it so that Poison is resisted by Bug but does neutral damage to it.
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Which I'm kinda pissed they did that.

Not only should they have left that alone, but they should have also gone with their original plan for typing from the Gold beta
chart.jpg
 
I've noticed that most Pokemon types can be divided into "element" types (Water, Grass, Fire, Electric, Ice, Rock, Ground, Dragon, Flying) and "concept" types (Psychic, Dark, Ghost, Normal). Types inside a group interact a lot more with types of their own group than others. I'm just having trouble fitting Fairy, Bug, Poison, Fighting and Steel into my pet theory as they interact with both groups more or less equally.

Celebrate Nite said:
Careful Nature (although any + Def/SDef will do, just swap the points so that both of them are 553)
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I'd make SpDef one or two points higher than Def so that Pokemon with Download get an Atk boost instead of SpAtk. They're pretty much all special attackers. It's a very niche thing like lowering Atk to weaken confusion damage, but it makes a pretty big difference when it happens.

Ilikeoreos said:
Poison and Bug were both super effective against each other in Gen 1. Gen 2 changed it so that Poison is resisted by Bug but does neutral damage to it.
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Because what Bug needed was yet another resistance. That and the Fairy type coming in to rub more salt in the wound.
 
Friendly Primarina said:
Gonna have to help us out here, champ. I'm not poring over each square to see what's different.
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  • Normal Resists Dark
  • Normal is super effective against dark
  • Dark is weak to itself
  • Dark resists psychic rather than being immune to it
  • Steel is immune to itself
  • Steel resists fighting
  • Steel resists poison rather than being immune to it
  • Steel is weak to water and electric
 
Celebrate Nite said:
Steel is weak to water and electric
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Sometimes I wonder why Steel isn't weak to Electric, it makes sense as metal is more conductive than water and it'd make Steel less obviously broken. The only problem would be making Electric too powerful as it can already hit the most common type super effectively, but it'd still be the most logical weakness, and many Steel types carry Earthquake and are bulky enough to survive a super effective move, so it wouldn't be too heavy a nerf.

Syikeblade said:
Ironically grass does decently well in the VGC
4 vs 4 setting.
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Grass is also amazing coverage on Fire types. A Mega Charizard Y with Solar Beam is an absolute menace and I love using it. But it ends up being a little like the Ice type where it's great offensively but shitty defensively, so having an Ice move is better than having an Ice Pokemon.
 
AnotherPleb said:
And it was using Technician Bullet Punch more than anything else. Could the nerf be for U-Turn?
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As a Technician Scizor user I fully agree with U-Turn's power be nerfed to 60.
Sneak 'n' Snore said:
Bug sucks now even harder on offense and U turn is still primarily used for switching out and scouting what your opponent does, people never really cared about dealing Bug effective damage.
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I advocate for a new type that's at least strong against Fairy/Ghost/Steel and weak against Bug/Grass to spice things up.
 
Celebrate Nite said:
  • Normal Resists Dark
  • Normal is super effective against dark
  • Dark is weak to itself
  • Dark resists psychic rather than being immune to it
  • Steel is immune to itself
  • Steel resists fighting
  • Steel resists poison rather than being immune to it
  • Steel is weak to water and electric
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Fighting wrecks steel.

Friendly Primarina said:
It could be worse. It could be Grass.
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In later games, Ice is worse than Grass despite its usefulness in Pokemon Go (it was bad in SV). Cien-Pao was the only decent ice type in Vanilla SV (I don't know if the expansion added more ice pokemon).
 
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