Pokémon (Not-So) Griefing Thread - Scarlet and Violet Released with 10 Million Copies in First 3 Days in Buggy States

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Late but I really do think they’ve hit the bottom of the barrel at this point.

Sadly, until Game Freak releases a game that is Battlefield 2042 or Fallout 76 levels of broken, and doesn't fix the game, the series is yet to reach rock bottom. And even that may not be enough, as the games have taken a backseat to the rest of the merchandise that is pumped out.

On the topic of remakes, I don't know what would be funnier to me: If they made the Gen 5 remake just as bad, or if they actually tried to make decent remakes again from now on and BDSP would remain as the odd one out.

I can even see GF making the Gen 5 remakes intentionally bad, just to try to get people to forget about the original Gen 5 games.
 
I think the worst part about bad designs isn't their connection to the games, but the fact that you're going to be seeing them everywhere else in Pokémon-related media from then on. ESPECIALLY if they're important like a Legendary.

Some lucky mon like Bruxish or Vanilluxe land themselves in spots where they're essentially just route fodder for specific biomes or one-off concepts the team just wanted to do without filling any niche or evolving the line beyond its initial stage, and therefore just end up as cherry-picked examples as to why an entire generation has a bad design philosophy, but the vast majority of modern bad designs do not fall into this category.
Things like bad starters, bad legendaries, bad regionals- they're going to be promoted to hell and back, and there's nothing you can do about it save for watching a shitty design get shoved down your throat repeatedly by TPC itself if you want to see anything Pokémon from then on. Bad regionals are especially bad because regional designs often outclass their originals (either through evolution potential or sheer viability, both competitive and not), so it's very likely that the original design that you might've preferred will be forever overshadowed by the regional. See: every single gen 8 variant that got an evolution, Sirfetch'd especially.

Even fan material, some of the only Pokémon stuff I find myself genuinely enjoying nowadays, is tainted by this shit because sometimes these bad designs gain cancerous fanbases that become so obsessed with the designs that half of their characters following its reveal end up being of its species cough cough riolu cough cough cinderace, and those that aren't still have to adjust their canons to fit the new mon in. You can't just write a Legendary pantheon without accounting for things like Zygarde's 100% form or Solgaleo, for example- those two are very very important to the lore and ignoring them would make the story incongruent with the franchise's canon, so you'd either have to say that the story was written before they existed or bullshit your way into excluding "The Beast that Devours the Sun" from a pantheon of (what most of the fandom interprets as) literal gods as monsters.

Bad designs don't just drag down the rest of their generation or their games, they drag down the entire franchise. The more generally-bad designs you make, the worse the entire franchise's designs will seem, and the more you'll have to look at ugly-looking monsters in a series literally predicated around dogfighting with monsters meant to look visually appealing, and like "something you could befriend" (second bit was quoted from a dev interview, can't remember from where. I think it might've involved Ohmori?).

tl;dr: the Pokémon designs are a large contributor to Pokémon's problems, just not the Pokémon games' problems. They hurt the brand and its reputation the more they proliferate, and even make fan work tough to enjoy if they have popular-enough fanbases (almost always furries latching onto them).

People have been saying this since gen 5 because that's when the kids who'd grown up on RBY reached the nostalgia peak and started throwing shitfits that they couldn't easily catch a Rattata in Unova. There was also a noticeable shift in art style arguably beginning in gen 3 that was brought to the forefront in 5 because these same young adults were angry about having to use new designs that weren't as familiar to them as gen 1's, which made all their flaws stick out far more than any other generation's. And those flaws combined with the blind outrage led to people denouncing gen 5's dex as total shit due to this new design.
Since then the art style shift has only gotten more and more extreme, to the point where you now have multiple Pokémon in one generation that are near-unanimously agreed to look like they're from a different game (Charcadet line from Mega Man, Nacli line from Minecraft, I'm seeing a LOT of mention of the new trio looking like Yo-Kai Watch even though that's an insult to Yo-Kai Watch), and the differences were only made worse as Sugimiori stopped making official art (post-USUM I don't think he's done anything besides a few human characters? Correct me if I'm wrong) and was replaced mostly by imitators (killing off yet another extremely consistent and recognizable aspect of the franchise).

Long rambling autistic rant aside, i'll just wrap this up quickly again.
Bad designs matter, just less to the games than to everything else. Pokémon will never escape the moniker of having "bad designs" with each subsequent generation, because of how incredibly the style of the designs has shifted.
When people think Pokémon, they think Kanto. Which means when people think Pokémon, they mostly think of animals with angry faces and elemental powers or oddball creatures that levitate with magnets (how the fuck does that work?) and hiveminds of egg-seeds, in a watercolor style known for its sharp edges and pure-white lighting.
They think of a semi-grounded setting with cassette-futurist aesthetics at best, and a hard focus on you fighting a jerk-ass rival to fill up an encyclopedia and win what amounts to a regional marathon. They think of a party of monsters with two evolutions and then that's it, with no extra battle gimmicks or alternate forms, no special classifications, mostly-subdued colors and a minimal amount of pop-culture references (ESPECIALLY in regards to the west).

Pokémon isn't that anymore, and since most people can't articulate as to why they default to saying designs are bad. Because Pokémon is now about a futuristic utopia with robots in your phone and specialized gear for travelling through wormholes to alternate dimensions, because Pokémon is now about much more artificial creatures with a lot more complexity to them in terms of both design and classification, because Pokémon has all of these super forms and a heavier emphasis on story and totally different artists designing these things- all of it is so far removed from the first generation by this point (and only getting further removed) that many older fans and people in general don't associate it with the older Pokémon, which they liked.
So they call it bad.

You may now toss puzzle pieces in my eyes.
 
Holy shit what was that internet
Please never post something that long thrice ever again thanks
 
I can even see GF making the Gen 5 remakes intentionally bad, just to try to get people to forget about the original Gen 5 games.
Gamefreak backpedaled hard after gen 5 when it was the closest that series came to a good story.
Late response, but I'm a bit iffy on that video given that the comments say that some of the links in the description are wrong and that some people are still having issues.
It's not that hard. I'm not the most tech literate and even I manged to jailbreak the 3DS with no issues.
 
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Late but I really do think they’ve hit the bottom of the barrel at this point. These designs don’t look appealing on any level. I think I prefer when they would attempt to try and give an explanation on how each class has of Pokémon came to be the way they are due to the circumstances of the region they were evolved in. Someone many pages back said that in the Japanese Pokédex’s in some version of the earlier games actually explains how each pokemons properties and designs evolved from the different regions they come from. Does anyone have that particular post or knowledge by any chance?

Either way Happy Pokemon Day kiwis, just remember the good days of the first 4 or five generations and pray we eventually get that Pokémon Colosseum reboot or finally a worthwhile new release. Oh and of course fuck Game Freak and their whole crew.
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Happy 27 years!!
Lol, what are those Yokai Watch monsters doing in a pokemon thread?
 
Late response, but I'm a bit iffy on that video given that the comments say that some of the links in the description are wrong and that some people are still having issues.
Speaking of modding 3DSs, I should really do that for my Yveltal Red 3DS XL ASAP and pick up a New 3DS XL before the month is out. I did manage to pull an Alt Art Lugia V from a Silver Tempest 3-pack blister so selling that would take a big chunk of the cost of one if not pay for it outright.
 
@Anonitolia I personally think people thinking Kanto when they see Pokemon is not a good thing and one of the reasons why the series is so stagnant. This is why we have so much gen 1 nostalgia pandering that’s been getting more and more intrusive with each mainline game. I wish fans would just let go of Kanto for awhile and try to get out of their comfort zone to appreciate the themes and designs from other regions. Fans demand the series to innovate and change yet when it does they reject it immediately and crawl back to their favorite older games.

Also in terms of settings gen 7 takes place many years after gen 1 so it’s not unreasonable for the world to shift from a grounded, “normal” setting into a more futuristic utopia over due to technological and scientific advancements, changes in society, etc. I don’t know where SWSH and SV fall in the Pokemon time line though.
 
@Anonitolia I call that more of personal taste also some regional forms and evo like Obstagoon and A-Sandslash play different than there non evo original forms Obstagoon are more slow wall breaker with guts while the original Linoone are Extreme speed spammers the uses gluttony and then there A-Sandslash for being a snow sweeper while there original one is more a defensive utility mon . Maybe some regional forms and evo like Sirfetch'd and A-Muk totally outclassed there prior forms but there some regional that are also outclassed by the originals like Dugtrio and Mr. Mime ( yes Mr. Mime outclassed Mr. Rime due of not being ice type but both are outclassed by G-Mr. Mime for being a pre-evo that can hold eviolite ) and there G-Weezing whose better than Weezing in singles for being part fairy but it worse than it in double VGC for being part fairy . Also I hardly call those bad design the problem for the franchise .
Edit : Also the new trio that alot say look like Yo-Kai watch is hardly a bad thing maybe they are made by some artist from Yo-kai watch did like a megaman artist made some design for them ( Hitoshi Ariga made the Nacli line but not the Charcadet line ) .
 
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@Anonitolia I personally think people thinking Kanto when they see Pokemon is not a good thing and one of the reasons why the series is so stagnant. This is why we have so much gen 1 nostalgia pandering that’s been getting more and more intrusive with each mainline game. I wish fans would just let go of Kanto for awhile and try to get out of their comfort zone to appreciate the themes and designs from other regions. Fans demand the series to innovate and change yet when it does they reject it immediately and crawl back to their favorite older games.
Oh, no, I totally agree. I just mean that Pokemania made sure that this perception would never change for the general public (especially in America). If we're lucky, it might be outgrown after every kid who was alive during it was dead.
Also, to be fair, a lot of the time GF's innovation amounts to "1 step forward 5 steps back". Even Gen 5 (released back when the company gave a bit more of a shit) had this issue- alongside the moving sprites and dynamic music, a lot of side activities were removed (Safari Zone, Contests, Berry Farming arguably walking Pokémon since they directly followed HGSS but those weren't long-running inclusions like the previous three) and the overall region was pretty streamlined (which took away a fair amount of the adventure for most, even if I personally think the route design makes up for it tenfold).

And that's probably the best example of GF actually changing anything without fucking up almost everything else to some extent imo.
You could argue PLA tried too, and I could respect that, though it also took away shit like Abilities, breeding, literally any kind of activity outside of repetitive mostly-fetch-side-quests or battling sparse trainers, held items, etc. I really like PLA, but the game couldn't innovate without stripping away half the features that make the series' combat even vaguely engaging and it suffered for it imo.

Also in terms of settings gen 7 takes place many years after gen 1 so it’s not unreasonable for the world to shift from a grounded, “normal” setting into a more futuristic utopia over due to technological and scientific advancements, changes in society, etc. I don’t know where SWSH and SV fall in the Pokemon time line though.
Also I have no idea where you're getting this from because the closest thing we have to "timelines" for the series is a deleted tweet from someone who used(?) to work there almost half a decade ago (and that tweet itself never placed more than 10 years between the first and most recent games, so that kind of technological advancement in that amount of time is unreasonable). Fanon doesn't count when discussing the changes in the canon games.
 
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@Anonitolia I personally think people thinking Kanto when they see Pokemon is not a good thing and one of the reasons why the series is so stagnant. This is why we have so much gen 1 nostalgia pandering that’s been getting more and more intrusive with each mainline game. I wish fans would just let go of Kanto for awhile and try to get out of their comfort zone to appreciate the themes and designs from other regions. Fans demand the series to innovate and change yet when it does they reject it immediately and crawl back to their favorite older games.
Its so weird to me how Pokemon feels like its constantly made for new players and has been continuously losing good faith from its current fans in the past years, yet this one demographic from over two decades ago is the one that they're trying to appease and keep around so much. I know Pokemania and all but still.
 
Gen 1 had teleporters and Gen 2 has a time machine, people shouldnt think too hard about the technology level of the games

It's a fantasy world they shouldn't have gradually adjusted the technology to real life technology. It replaces the experience playing a game with the one watching a commercial
 
Gen 1 had teleporters and Gen 2 has a time machine, people shouldnt think too hard about the technology level of the games
It's not the technology level that's the problem, it's the way it's presented. It's hard to really clarify without sounding like i'm beating around the bush: I just mean the shift in aesthetics, I guess. Compare both pics with each other, hopefully that gets across what I mean. The first picture is gen 1's PC, the second is Pokémon GO's. The first is far far more grounded- very similar to a real-world PC- while the second looks more like something out of sci-fi or an extremely advanced hospital. Even when the old anime portrayed futuristic stuff like (at the time) video calling, it was done in a very grounded manner in which Ash basically just used a computer to do it and all he could do was see the other person through the screen. In more modern pokemon, I'm pretty sure something like that would be portrayed with a hologram showing an entire body and facial movements instead. Why am I so sure of this? Because XY already did it with the Holocaster!
Why must adequately describing changes in style without sounding like an ineloquent schizo be so hard for no good reason...
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Its so weird to me how Pokemon feels like its constantly made for new players and has been continuously losing good faith from its current fans in the past years, yet this one demographic from over two decades ago is the one that they're trying to appease and keep around so much. I know Pokemania and all but still.
I think they've just been having a marketing mid-life crisis since Gen 5. I'm pretty sure those games convinced them that all anybody cared about was Kanto (due to the aforementioned complaining about a lack of old Pokémon), and GO blowing up amongst normal people while including exclusively Kanto (alongside XY selling much better than BW while having far more explicit Kanto pandering (yes I realize that's a buzzword, it still applies here)) only solidified that perception.
They know that the Kanto crowd have more disposable income and are a big market of theirs, but are simultaneously trying to rope in new fans to try and keep the brand alive instead of coasting off the money of nostalgia-addled 30 year olds who waste all their money on TCG sets.
 
21 Pokemon who are queer
It's not the technology level that's the problem, it's the way it's presented. It's hard to really clarify without sounding like i'm beating around the bush: I just mean the shift in aesthetics, I guess.
Bro, they barely knew what they were doing with the franchise, back then. They actually included the GBA games within the anime as part of an massive hint for the viewers, along with referencing levels and movesets.

The technological advancements is just the writers chasing new trends instead of just sticking to the original setting
 
While I do get the issue of the tech aesthetic changing, this is mainly because the definition of "futuristic" tech has also changed over the years.

Ace Attorney is riddled with the same problem, in a different style. They constantly used rl modern-day tech for their near-future series and evidence, which results in things like nokia-esque cell-phones and old hokey-style radios being used in 2018 by literally everyone. Then on the other extreme you have pretty much sentient robots only a few years later and everything about Great Ace Attorney.

And the less said about Digimon, the better.

This is less some huge aesthetic failure and more the result of wanting your tech to feel just a little bit futuristic at all times. Over time, the definition of futuristic will change.

Do you think people today wouldn't find it jarring that computers that look like they're several decades old in design would have functionality that modern computers are far, far from having?

Also: re: the timeline thing, we do know the Gen 7 games are sometime past the Gen 1 games, because the protags of gen 1 are in gen 7 as adults, or at least late teens. So there'd at least be enough modernisation to bring it up to our level today.

And to throw them one more bone, there's the whole multiverse thing. Y'know, where every Pokémon game is stated to be their own universe in a multiverse, which is why, for example, you can have some hoenn adventures with Mega Evolution and some hoenn adventures without them.
 
This is less some huge aesthetic failure and more the result of wanting your tech to feel just a little bit futuristic at all times. Over time, the definition of futuristic will change.
I understand that, though the fact that all the games are typically treated as separate entities in the same universe will hurt cohesion and the large clash between the Pokémon that blew up among kids in the 90s and the Pokémon of today is a large part of why the whole "new Pokémon suck" thing exists. It also really doesn't help that the names for these things never change (ie the PCs I referenced before are both PCs, despite one looking completely different to the other). Because of the shift in aesthetics in the world, alongside the shifts in art style and Pokémon design, people no longer recognize the franchise as what it once was, which creates confusion and irritation among the people the brand is trying to pander to with the excessive kowtowing to Kanto. It also irritates the fans by reminding them of how much the series has changed as the games continue to degrade, and creates the identity crisis I was talking about because of them trying to appeal to every single group.
They're trying to market to most people by shoving Kanto into everything because they know that's what's recognizable, while simultaneously being proud of making "bold strides" with their newer games that greatly remove the setting from what it once was to catch the praise of journalists and fans who criticized the series for not changing in the past (they've been pulling this since Alola, with the Trials, and are only being louder about it considering SV's marketing), alongside attempting to appeal to younger kids to keep the brand alive at all with greatly simplified gameplay and a lot more focus on kids through their multimedia endeavors (especially every mobile app that isn't Masters or arguably GO).

Ace Attorney is at least stuck in a courtroom setting for the most part (correct me if I'm wrong? the most I've played of it was the first two cases of the first game on DS) so very little changes outside of the occasional show of tech. Digimon is unfortunately a victim of being based on technology while also being from the fucking 90s, so it was doomed from the start lol. Pokémon is (or was) a series focused on exploring its world and raising creatures, in which you very regularly interact with tech to do so. PC boxes are called the same thing despite Kanto and Paldea having completely different-looking ones. Healers at Pokémon Centers are also deemed identical despite the newer ones having outright holographic displays while the old ones were obviously clunky boxes with very little flair to them. Pokedexes used to look encyclopedias or game consoles- they now look like or outright are mobile phones.

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These aesthetic differences don't come with any differentiation in naming, they're not given model numbers or anything, and the universe is treated the exact same.
Pokémon designs are also having the weird reverse of this problem with Paradox Pokémon being near-identical to existing Pokémon in visual aesthetic (Violet's exclusives especially) but completely different in function, while still being deemed different from their older design counterparts, which is only making the situation even more confusing.

Do you think people today wouldn't find it jarring that computers that look like they're several decades old in design would have functionality that modern computers are far, far from having?
They wouldn't, because it'd just be how they work in Pokémon. Kids probably wouldn't know that these are old computers (and if they were i'm certain they wouldn't care), older people can chuckle at the fact that they are- they certainly wouldn't think it's "jarring". Both groups would easily get used to the iconography and just take it as a given part of the setting. By your logic, people in the 90s would've been jarred by the fact that computers in Pokémon were used for storing living creatures and video-calling (in a genuine and distracting sense, not the facetious webcomic way where "oh em gee you're digitally storing creatures in a computer isn't that weird and Totally Not Digimon Guys").

Also: re: the timeline thing, we do know the Gen 7 games are sometime past the Gen 1 games, because the protags of gen 1 are in gen 7 as adults, or at least late teens. So there'd at least be enough modernisation to bring it up to our level today.
And to throw them one more bone, there's the whole multiverse thing. Y'know, where every Pokémon game is stated to be their own universe in a multiverse, which is why, for example, you can have some hoenn adventures with Mega Evolution and some hoenn adventures without them.
That's fair enough, I forgot about that. That only applies to the Mega timeline, though, which doesn't take into account all the changes that gens 3-5 made to their own presentation that can also be blamed for this (if less-so).
Supposedly there's also a Gigantamax timeline now, too, or whatever? I haven't followed the multiversal bullshit since USUM, I just think it's really dumb and doesn't warrant being focused on ever.
None of this really matters because the games never ever mention it, outside of like two mentions of 'Fallers' in that unfinished Anabel sideplot. All these differences are never explained or acknowledged in the games, they're just taken as read.
 
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