Pokémon (Not-So) Griefing Thread - Scarlet and Violet Released with 10 Million Copies in First 3 Days in Buggy States

[The Ultimate Ramotith]

Then you get to Gen 3... new region, clearly an island seperated from Kanto'n'Johto. 135 new Pokemon in total, while not as big as the 151 in Gen 1, is still an impressive list. Hoenn could have definitely held it's own without the addition of Kanto/Johto pokemon. Azurill and Wynaut could have been post-game Pokemon and moved at the end of the pokedex (like in Gen 4 where all the past pokemon evolutions got their own section).

Back during Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire, there was quite a bit of outcry due to a lot of Pokémon from past generations no longer being in the game. Someone even called one of his fire-type Pokémon 'Houndoom' in tribute to the Houndoom stuck in his old games. Then came Pokémon Colosseum and Pokémon FireRed and LeafGreen, which let others ge the rest of the Pokédex (including Houndoom).

 

[Rotollo 2]

Back during Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire, there was quite a bit of outcry due to a lot of Pokémon from past generations no longer being in the game. Someone even called one of his old fire-type Pokémon 'Houndoom' in tribute to the Houndoom stuck in his old games. Then came Pokémon Colosseum and Pokémon FireRed and LeafGreen, which let others ge the rest of the Pokédex (including Houndoom).

TFW all these years later now they actually made a GB game transfer tool for pokemon bank
wonder if anyone ever injected their old gameboy saves for the virtual console releases

 

[Nauseated Courgi]

He's got a point. The fact that Gen 5 had the balls to go "no past gen pokemon until post-game" was one of the best things that could have happened. The new Pokemon should be able to hold their own with each new generation and not rely on past Pokemon to pick up the slack. It made sense in Gold/Silver/Crystal because those games were direct sequels to Red/Blue/Yellow, especially since both regions are literal next door neighbors. So having older pokemon gain new baby/evolutions was a good idea, and if they hadn't axed the ideas they were going for in the beta, we would have had a fuck-ton more.

Then you get to Gen 3... new region, clearly an island seperated from Kanto'n'Johto. 135 new Pokemon in total, while not as big as the 151 in Gen 1, is still an impressive list. Hoenn could have definitely held it's own without the addition of Kanto/Johto pokemon. Azurill and Wynaut could have been post-game Pokemon and moved at the end of the pokedex (like in Gen 4 where all the past pokemon evolutions got their own section).

Speaking of Gen 4, they seem to have went all out on the new features (The Underground and the special/physical split being the big ones) but skipped out on the Pokemon themselves. This time only 107, including the previously mentioned newer evolutions. Not counting Magmortar (and the later added Heat Rotom), you only have Infernape, and Heatran as the sole fire types for this gen, which considering Fire is one of the common types in all gens, that's pretty pathetic. Even worse, you have 386 past Pokemon to pick up the slack, so now those new Pokemon become an afterthought unless your name is Garchomp or Lucario, which are both used competitively.

And then... Gen 5. With a whopping 156 new pokemon in the first Black and White games, not once resorting to using past Pokemon, never creating new baby/evolutions for them either (although Alomomola not being related to Luvdisc is kinda an obvious wtf), every single pokemon type has multiple pokemon to choose from, and only allowing you to play with the old toys in post-game. And then they fucked that all up with B2/W2 by adding 493 past pokemon in the UnovaDex because people bitched, moaned, and complained about it. And ever since then, from X/Y to Sw/Sh, it's been the same shit over and over again, only worse thanks to Mega Evolutions and "Region Variants"

I don't know about you, but when I'm going into a new region, my first thought isn't "GOLLY GEE WHIZ, I SURE HOPE PIKACHU IS BACK IN THIS GAME FOR THE 238462384672348672TH TIME!!!", I'm going "O.K., let's see what these new pokemon have to offer and if i can build a team solely on this gen". I can absolutely do that with Gen 5 and then some. Say what you want about the pokemon designs (and a lot of people have), but in my honest opinion, Black and White are the games in which they actually made some fucking effort to build from the ground up and give fans a completely different experience while keeping the basics the same without relying on nostalgia pandering.

I won't argue against the good Generation 5 brought for the series and its unfortunate fate. The buyers' remorse from the fanbase is on them, but that goes without saying.

But to argue in favor of the pokemon distribution afterwards, as cool of an idea gen 5's was, it did lead to a good chunk of its mons being copy-pasted versions of pokemon in earlier generations (Roggenrola line, Timburr line, Munna line, Sawk and Throh, etc).

It wouldn't have been sustainable in the long term either I'd bet. Gens 3-5 had to add in over a hundred new pokemon because what good is a monster catching game if there isn't a wide selection of monsters to choose from? From gen 6 and onwards, there was already hundreds of pokemon that either shared typings, movesets or both and along with the new pokemon they would have to have the pokemon from prior generations be obtainable somewhere. Add in the transition to 3D and them trying release a new game on a yearly basis and Dexit would have happened sooner rather than later, so the number of new pokemon each gen was likely being lowered to delay the inevitable.

I also disagree with regional variants being a part of the problem with modern pokemon. While it's true that aren't a completely new pokemon, they still bring a new take on the classic mons. Especially for the one's that didn't see much use prior to its new form as opposed to Mega evolution and gigantomaxing just giving certain Pokémon a "super form" that can be activated during battle.

Edit: Grammer

 

[CrippleThreat]

He was total lolcow material.

Was, you say? He still looks to be quite a humorous heifer, especially in this current gen.

 

[Hff201]

I also disagree with regional variants being a part of the problem with modern pokemon. While it's true that aren't a completely new pokemon, they still bring a new take on the classic mons. Especially for the one's that didn't see much use prior to its new form as opposed to Mega evolution and gigantomaxing just giving certain Pokémon a "super form" that can be activated during battle.

Regional variants are one of the best additions in recent generations and honestly my only problem with the concept is there aren't more of them each time. It fleshes out the Pokémon world as a setting a bit more (it makes sense Pokémon would adapt to their surroundings), plus it's just neat to see different takes on established designs.

Given a lot of the new designs each generation are just expies of existing Pokémon anyway they might as well officially relate them and make that part of the lore.

 

[Celebrate Nite]

I also disagree with regional variants being a part of the problem with modern pokemon. While it's true that aren't a completely new pokemon, they still bring a new take on the classic mons. Especially for the one's that didn't see much use prior to its new form as opposed to Mega evolution and gigantomaxing just giving certain Pokémon a "super form" that can be activated during battle.

Pokemon that don't see much use is more of a Competitive/Userbase problem rather than a general Pokemon problem, and it stems from people not thinking outside the box. Like it or not, the Smogon mindset has seeped into the actual games to where online you almost always see the same sets on the same group of pokemon in the same tiers, not once being original. In fact last time i saw any sort of originality was a X/Y Triples "Round" team in which a user whom used a Blissy, Sylveon, and Jolteon (I forgot what the other three were) completely fucked my team up only using that move. It's gimmicky, sure, but at the time, and even now, shit like that was/is rarely ever seen.

Just look at Delcatty. BOTH Smogon and Serebii shit all over the poor thing calling it one of the worst Pokemon ever. I don't believe it deserves that label, as it has gotten little bumps here and there to make it useable.

• It gained Wonder Skin as a hidden ability in Gen 5, which is better than Normalize and Cute Charm. You can either combine it with a accuracy-lowering held item (Bright Powder/Lax Incense) or use a boosting move to take advantage of the opponent's Toxic/WillOWisp/ThunderWave not working, or both
• It gained Cosmic Power as an egg move in Gen 6, which combined with a HP recovery held item (Leftover/Berries) can keep it's longevity.
• Adding to the two points above, if it DOES get statused, It's a normal type that knows Facade, so you can fuck shit up and not worry about going down in one-two hits thanks to Cosmic Power (or even the attack loss from burn)
• In Gen 7, it gained 20 points in the speed stat, and can learn Stomping Tantrum, so Rock/Steel is not a huge issue anymore (it's only other options were Wake-Up Slap and Rock Smash). So that leaves you with one other move slot for either Ghosts (Sucker Punch), or Fighting types (Zen Headbutt/Play Rough)

Instead you see things like Normalize Thunder Wave because Electrics and Grounds can't immune anymore (which was fine in past gens when 1. Ghosts weren't as common as they are now and 2. you didn't have too many options back then), or special focused Calm Mind movesets... even though the special attack stat is the WORST stat on this thing.

There's even a blatant bias against certain other pokemon. Someone wins VGC 2014 with a Pachirisu, which IMO is the biggest inspiration ever in regards to "low-tier" Pokemon can dominate just as well as anything in OU, and Serebii still shits on it in it's PotW segment, basically boiling down to "yea, I guess it did good... but you STILL shouldn't use this thing seriously at all!"

Region variants and mega evolutions are nothing more than a "band-aid" that only covers up a problem that GameFreak didn't even create themselves. Alola Raticate??? "Oh hey, now he's FAT, and has better defenses and can take half damage on ice and fire attacks" yea ok but he's normal/dark now, which means double fighting weakness (4x instead of the 2x from the original), so all of that is moot if he can go down with one hit. You essentially made a WORSE Raticate considering there was literally nothing wrong with the original one. Flame Orb Guts Raticate with Protect/Facade/SuckerPunch/Stomping Tantrum with 252 Attack/Speed fucking owns a lot of shit.

 

[Nauseated Courgi]

Pokemon that don't see much use is more of a Competitive/Userbase problem rather than a general Pokemon problem, and it stems from people not thinking outside the box. Like it or not, the Smogon mindset has seeped into the actual games to where online you almost always see the same sets on the same group of pokemon in the same tiers, not once being original. In fact last time i saw any sort of originality was a X/Y Triples "Round" team in which a user whom used a Blissy, Sylveon, and Jolteon (I forgot what the other three were) completely fucked my team up only using that move. It's gimmicky, sure, but at the time, and even now, shit like that was/is rarely ever seen.

Just look at Delcatty. BOTH Smogon and Serebii shit all over the poor thing calling it one of the worst Pokemon ever. I don't believe it deserves that label, as it has gotten little bumps here and there to make it useable.

• It gained Wonder Skin as a hidden ability in Gen 5, which is better than Normalize and Cute Charm. You can either combine it with a accuracy-lowering held item (Bright Powder/Lax Incense) or use a boosting move to take advantage of the opponent's Toxic/WillOWisp/ThunderWave not working, or both
• It gained Cosmic Power as an egg move in Gen 6, which combined with a HP recovery held item (Leftover/Berries) can keep it's longevity.
• Adding to the two points above, if it DOES get statused, It's a normal type that knows Facade, so you can fuck shit up and not worry about going down in one-two hits thanks to Cosmic Power (or even the attack loss from burn)
• In Gen 7, it gained 20 points in the speed stat, and can learn Stomping Tantrum, so Rock/Steel is not a huge issue anymore (it's only other options were Wake-Up Slap and Rock Smash). So that leaves you with one other move slot for either Ghosts (Sucker Punch), or Fighting types (Zen Headbutt/Play Rough)

Instead you see things like Normalize Thunder Wave because Electrics and Grounds can't immune anymore (which was fine in past gens when 1. Ghosts weren't as common as they are now and 2. you didn't have too many options back then), or special focused Calm Mind movesets... even though the special attack stat is the WORST stat on this thing.

There's even a blatant bias against certain other pokemon. Someone wins VGC 2014 with a Pachirisu, which IMO is the biggest inspiration ever in regards to "low-tier" Pokemon can dominate just as well as anything in OU, and Serebii still shits on it in it's PotW segment, basically boiling down to "yea, I guess it did good... but you STILL shouldn't use this thing seriously at all!"

Region variants and mega evolutions are nothing more than a "band-aid" that only covers up a problem that GameFreak didn't even create themselves. Alola Raticate??? "Oh hey, now he's FAT, and has better defenses and can take half damage on ice and fire attacks" yea ok but he's normal/dark now, which means double fighting weakness (4x instead of the 2x from the original), so all of that is moot if he can go down with one hit. You essentially made a WORSE Raticate considering there was literally nothing wrong with the original one. Flame Orb Guts Raticate with Protect/Facade/SuckerPunch/Stomping Tantrum with 252 Attack/Speed fucking owns a lot of shit.

Yeah, you make a good point. However, for every "Alolan Raticate" we get an "Alolan Ninetales" that completely changes up what the original does in typing, moveset and abilities.

That's what I've always liked about them. It's like you're working with a new pokemon.

 

[Some Badger]

While we’re still airing out grievances about Smogonfags worming their standards into an official competitive capacity, I’m gonna go out on a limb and say too many people sleep on the viability Zangoose. Not only is its movepool diverse enough that you have options for coverage with Aerial Ace and punch attacks, but Toxic Boost will allow it to hit like a truck, and if paired with Facade, Zangoose hits like a nuke.

I’ve run Zangoose on a couple UU and RU sets and I struggle to to comprehend why it’s stuck in PU. Sure, its defense isn’t great but a speed-based nature like Jolly or Hasty allows it to keep up with most sweepers. Its fragility mostly stems from the fact that the best sets require a toxic orb and switching is incredibly risky, but the latter is applicable to most non-sashed sweepers anyway.

 

[Leaf Wage Slave]

Competitive Pokémon is arguably one of the most autistic things I’ve ever seen, and I play Yugioh so that’s a pretty high bar. Smogon has basically ruined any chance for a lot of Pokémon to be “viable”, and despite there being something like 900 of the fuckers at this point, maybe less than a tenth of the Pokémon pool is ever used.

Makes it hilarious when I see Pokémon Showdown videos of meme builds wrecking face and the salt that comes from it though. If nothing else, playing your favourites over playing whatever Smogon wants to felatiate means against anyone who follows those rules religiously, they’ll generally be baffled and not know what to do…

 

[What the shit]

Competitive Pokémon is arguably one of the most autistic things I’ve ever seen, and I play Yugioh so that’s a pretty high bar. Smogon has basically ruined any chance for a lot of Pokémon to be “viable”, and despite there being something like 900 of the fuckers at this point, maybe less than a tenth of the Pokémon pool is ever used.

Makes it hilarious when I see Pokémon Showdown videos of meme builds wrecking face and the salt that comes from it though. If nothing else, playing your favourites over playing whatever Smogon wants to felatiate means against anyone who follows those rules religiously, they’ll generally be baffled and not know what to do…

Smogon is by definition nerdy as fuck. You go there for anything competitive Pokémon related with every calculation with base stats and nature with the items too. It's very complicated to understand.
Let me play Pokémon god dammit.

And with the remake, I have a somewhat small feeling they'll do a Let's go Johto.

 

[Leaf Wage Slave]

Smogon is by definition nerdy as fuck. You go there for anything competitive Pokémon related with every calculation with base stats and nature with the items too. It's very complicated to understand.
Let me play Pokémon god dammit.

And with the remake, I have a somewhat small feeling they'll do a Let's go Johto.

I’ve admittedly gone into Smogon a couple times with meme teams, mostly because it’s Pokémon who gives a fuck.

I got bodied every time - what a shock, autistic nerds can outpace meme teams - but they’ll never being able to take away my managing to Skill Swap Filter onto Slaking. Leftovers, Rest, and being able to get rid of Truant makes Slaking much better than he has any right being - who’s bright idea was it to have his Base Attack equal to Regigigas?

 

[The Ultimate Ramotith]

How much of an influence doe Smogon have over the general population that plays mainstream Pokémon games?

 

[Leaf Wage Slave]

How much of an influence doe Smogon have over the general population that plays mainstream Pokémon games?

Over the General Population, probably not much, considering how much of the Fanbase is probably children. Sure, there’s probably some autists out there that probably try to plow through the main story exclusively using Smogon approved teams, but it’s not like most Pokémon games have any real form of difficulty at this point so they’re just retards.

In my experience it’s once you start stepping into Online Battling - Ranked Modes in particular- that the Smogon mindset starts to make itself more and more known.

 

[Kari Kamiya]

And with the remake, I have a somewhat small feeling they'll do a Let's go Johto.

I can see this happen (I'm a Johto fag, I'd be all over this), but I don't know what versions they'd do for it. Best I can think of is a Let's Go, Espeon/Umbreon in which the day/night cycle is enforced, but I otherwise am not sure how they'd go about it.

But if they do do it, given how much they made the rival in LGP/E such a "nice guy", I fear what they'll do to Silver to make him "nice".

 

[Nauseated Courgi]

I can see this happen (I'm a Johto fag, I'd be all over this), but I don't know what versions they'd do for it. Best I can think of is a Let's Go, Espeon/Umbreon in which the day/night cycle is enforced, but I otherwise am not sure how they'd go about it.

But if they do do it, given how much they made the rival in LGP/E such a "nice guy", I fear what they'll do to Silver to make him "nice".

They'll just replace him with someone that's almost him but not really and have the actual Silver make an appearance at some point like they did in LGPE.

 

[Bunny Tracks]

Hell, I'd take a Gen 5 remake just so I can see Zoomers be as freaked out over N's room as I was. Man, I'm still not over how fucking creepy this is.

Remember when GameFreak could give more character development in just a single room than all of XY, SM, and SwSh did in their entire games?

 

[Down_the_stars]

Region variants and mega evolutions are nothing more than a "band-aid" that only covers up a problem that GameFreak didn't even create themselves. Alola Raticate??? "Oh hey, now he's FAT, and has better defenses and can take half damage on ice and fire attacks" yea ok but he's normal/dark now, which means double fighting weakness (4x instead of the 2x from the original), so all of that is moot if he can go down with one hit. You essentially made a WORSE Raticate considering there was literally nothing wrong with the original one. Flame Orb Guts Raticate with Protect/Facade/SuckerPunch/Stomping Tantrum with 252 Attack/Speed fucking owns a lot of shit.

Actually A-Raticate is the better one due of being a dual type yeah it might have quad weak to fighting but in exchange it got dark type resistance and immunity also if you want to compare the original and regional forms where the regional one is worst go look at A-Dugtrio since Dugtrio main use is its ability Arena Trap the regional form doesn't have one so its the worst.
Also almost all regional forms have there own niche that are different from the original (Sandslash being a ground type wall from A-Sandslash being a hail sweeper) while some are better than the original due of type being add or change (A-Muk is better than Muk due of adding dark type).

 

[Rotollo 2]

Hell, I'd take a Gen 5 remake just so I can see Zoomers be as freaked out over N's room as I was. Man, I'm still not over how fucking creepy this is.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=SLcOFCpcJ-w
Remember when GameFreak could give more character development in just a single room than all of XY, SM, and SwSh did in their entire games?

But bro, Dialog filled hallway corridors is totally character development, thanks Omori

 

[Agent Abe Caprine]

Hell, I'd take a Gen 5 remake just so I can see Zoomers be as freaked out over N's room as I was. Man, I'm still not over how fucking creepy this is.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=SLcOFCpcJ-w
Remember when GameFreak could give more character development in just a single room than all of XY, SM, and SwSh did in their entire games?

The sequels made it worse.

 

[Dunsparce]

Just look at Delcatty. BOTH Smogon and Serebii shit all over the poor thing calling it one of the worst Pokemon ever. I don't believe it deserves that label, as it has gotten little bumps here and there to make it useable.

• It gained Wonder Skin as a hidden ability in Gen 5, which is better than Normalize and Cute Charm. You can either combine it with a accuracy-lowering held item (Bright Powder/Lax Incense) or use a boosting move to take advantage of the opponent's Toxic/WillOWisp/ThunderWave not working, or both
• It gained Cosmic Power as an egg move in Gen 6, which combined with a HP recovery held item (Leftover/Berries) can keep it's longevity.
• Adding to the two points above, if it DOES get statused, It's a normal type that knows Facade, so you can fuck shit up and not worry about going down in one-two hits thanks to Cosmic Power (or even the attack loss from burn)
• In Gen 7, it gained 20 points in the speed stat, and can learn Stomping Tantrum, so Rock/Steel is not a huge issue anymore (it's only other options were Wake-Up Slap and Rock Smash). So that leaves you with one other move slot for either Ghosts (Sucker Punch), or Fighting types (Zen Headbutt/Play Rough)

Instead you see things like Normalize Thunder Wave because Electrics and Grounds can't immune anymore (which was fine in past gens when 1. Ghosts weren't as common as they are now and 2. you didn't have too many options back then), or special focused Calm Mind movesets... even though the special attack stat is the WORST stat on this thing.

There's even a blatant bias against certain other pokemon. Someone wins VGC 2014 with a Pachirisu, which IMO is the biggest inspiration ever in regards to "low-tier" Pokemon can dominate just as well as anything in OU, and Serebii still shits on it in it's PotW segment, basically boiling down to "yea, I guess it did good... but you STILL shouldn't use this thing seriously at all!"

The thing with Delcatty is that all of its stats are awful, even its improved Speed stat. You make it sound like people would only use status moves on it where even a Pokemon with average-ish offenses can take out most of its health before it gets a single cosmic power up, and it can barely do anything back to them in terms of Direct damage There are multiple normal types out there with a similar but completley superior stat spread, like Linoone(which debuted in the same game) and being a worse Linoone is pretty bad. There are numerous middle-staged Pokemon(that never were fully evolved Pokemon, so I don't mean stuff like Chansey and Rhydon) with higher stat totals than Delcatty. Also for special Delcatty, its stats are so bad that it's special attack isn't THAT much lower than its attack, so a single Calm Mind(and now with BDSP, Nasty Plot) made its special moves outdamage its physical moves. People seem to forget that before Gen VII gave Farfetch'd a big boost to Attack, that it also occasionally used Special moves for the same reasons(mostly Air Cutter to combine with Stick/Leek)

For Pachirisu, the 2014 VGC was pretty much the only competitive setting it could possibly have anything resembling a niche in. It was Kalos-dex only, which meant many Pokemon that could do it's job but better were unavailable, Movepools were restricted due to all of the fancy tutor moves not coming out until Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire, and finally the only legendary Pokemon that were allowed were Articuno, Zapdos, and Moltres. What the guy needed was a redirector to protect his Gyarados. Most people went with Amoongus for such a task, since it resisted electric and was very bulky, but its redirection move, Rage Powder, recently got nerfed in Gen VI where Grass types became immune to Powder and Spore moves. Mow Rotom in particular stopped it cold, since it was both immune to Rage Powder and could hit Gyarados with STAB electric moves(In the finals his opponent had one, funnily enough). Pachirisu's redirection move, Follow Me, does not have this limitation and it has Volt Absorb, which allows it to be healed by electric moves redirected to it. It had Nuzzle to use a Taunt-proof and more accurate Thunder Wave, and Super Fang to do something resembling Damage. The main reason why it was so successful, from what I have seen in the videos, its that his foes kept ignoring it even in situations where it could easily have been one-shot. In other words, it was a trick that only worked for one tournament season. People soon tried to copy the strat in both wifi battles and showdown battles, but because everyone and their grandma already knew how it worked, it became completely ineffectual.

tl;dr the power level between Pokemon is horribly unbalanced and everyone needs to face the fact that some are better than others, and some of those others are completely outclassed even by other trashmons. If you like a Pokemon that sucks, just use it for an in-game run, just don't expect it to win much in PVP, especially ranked PVP. Also Smogon is retarded as hell for even attempting to balance that mess.