Plummeting Birthrates Watch Thread - The horrifying implications of living in a Children of Men situation.

  • Want to keep track of this thread?
    Accounts can bookmark posts, watch threads for updates, and jump back to where you stopped reading.
    Create account
The opening of Idiocracy is running in my mind. At what point does a competency crisis become irrecoverable for societies like 1st world?
I dont think thats where were headed, not entirely. Theres 2 groups of people having lots of kids: stupid poor people who cant wrap it up or just want extra gibs and conservative, religious family oriented people who want kids regardless of the consequences. Theres lots of smart people in this group, half the congregation of my church are engineers and they all have kids. This group will be the educated elite of the future.
 
even if you do everything right like getting a STEM degree right out of highschool and a good job it still takes until your early to mid 30s to reach the milestones needed to properly provide for a family

You actually don't need each kid to be in multiple travel sports clubs and have a new iPad every six months in order for them to grow up without emotional trauma or nutrition deficits. Entry level engineer salary in the USA is about $70K, and if you can't feed a small child on that income, you're so retarded with money that not procreating is better for humanity, really.
 
You actually don't need each kid to be in multiple travel sports clubs and have a new iPad every six months in order for them to grow up without emotional trauma or nutrition deficits. Entry level engineer salary in the USA is about $70K, and if you can't feed a small child on that income, you're so retarded with money that not procreating is better for humanity, really.
I dont disagree but most people feel entitled to live that lifestyle and will avoid having kids and take on debt to afford it.
 
I dont disagree but most people feel entitled to live that lifestyle and will avoid having kids and take on debt to afford it.
Well, I would argue that is one of the core problems that people don't want to admit to: money has nothing to do with having kids. The fact is, the people lying about a lack of finances are just trying to hide the fact that they are hedonists who do not want to sacrifice their luxuries in order to have kids. I don't respect that viewpoint at all, but I could at least tolerate it if people were honest, but instead they pretend that they need welfare to provide those luxuries in order for them to have children. However, the "gibs me dats foh free right now" tactic works well with various flavors of neo-marxists, so the prevailing excuse is that the wealthiest peoples in the wealthiest nations "somehow" can't afford children without more gibs.

It also helps people ignore the actual root causes and instead warp the situation into some retarded pseudo socialist screed. Why discuss the anti male laws and courts, or hypergamy, or birth control, or abortion, or feminism, when you can instead demand free shit? Much easier and more socially palatable.
 
Well, I would argue that is one of the core problems that people don't want to admit to: money has nothing to do with having kids. The fact is, the people lying about a lack of finances are just trying to hide the fact that they are hedonists who do not want to sacrifice their luxuries in order to have kids. I don't respect that viewpoint at all, but I could at least tolerate it if people were honest, but instead they pretend that they need welfare to provide those luxuries in order for them to have children. However, the "gibs me dats foh free right now" tactic works well with various flavors of neo-marxists, so the prevailing excuse is that the wealthiest peoples in the wealthiest nations "somehow" can't afford children without more gibs.

It also helps people ignore the actual root causes and instead warp the situation into some retarded pseudo socialist screed. Why discuss the anti male laws and courts, or hypergamy, or birth control, or abortion, or feminism, when you can instead demand free shit? Much easier and more socially palatable.
The real question is, how heritable/genetic is being family oriented? Natural selection is working hard at weeding hedonists out.
 
I dont disagree but most people feel entitled to live that lifestyle and will avoid having kids and take on debt to afford it.
You said you need far more than this to "properly provide" for a family. I and every other Farmer with a family can confidently say that's bullshit. You ever notice they only tell white people you need a $500K house and three cars and travel sports and all this shit to be good parents? There's a reason for that.
 
You actually don't need each kid to be in multiple travel sports clubs and have a new iPad every six months in order for them to grow up without emotional trauma or nutrition deficits. Entry level engineer salary in the USA is about $70K, and if you can't feed a small child on that income, you're so retarded with money that not procreating is better for humanity, really.
That 70K single income has a habit of turning into 200k. Two incomes have a lot harder time growing. Of course how much of the cost of raising children comes from retarded face spending?
 
1777714408582.png

Just dropping this off here so that y'all get an idea of what a "good" income is now. That's the 90th percentile that I want you to concentrate on. Frankly, if you're making $85k by age 30, you're beating out 90% of the country. Zoomers whining about not making $100k first job are faggots. Yes, you see it correctly. A 25 year old fresh engineer making $75k is actually top 90 percentile. Very few people can afford a middle class family all by themselves. You're either on welfare or you're married with two incomes. But realize, if you have two incomes, you can bring in $70k with fairly little effort at age 30.

What you'd call the "middle class" of the US is shrinking quite rapidly and becoming descriptive of far fewer persons. And yet, I still play babysitter to semi-retarded college students who can't read a damn fucking set of instructions. These fuckers graduate and quickly end up making $60k+. What the hell is going on? Is most of the "middle class" actually pursuing disney fairytale dream jobs with no actual jobs waiting for them? It's the only way I can parse 90 percentile income being so low and being surrounded by idiot undergraduates who keep insisting they're worth $100k while being incapable of making a plot correctly. It's not hard.

Anyways, reddit argument aside, there's actually no particular connection between income and TFR. This is just an excuse hedonists make to justify pleasure seeking behavior. If you won't have a kid with $50k, you won't have one with $200k. You'll just get a dog and treat it like a child.
 
Nearly everyone who says $100K is too little to feed a munchkin is single. You're not too poor to have a family; you're too socially inept.

This is just an excuse hedonists make to justify pleasure seeking behavior.
Bingo.

You'll just get a dog and treat it like a child.
Do women realize how stupid and pathetic they look when they are pushing a dog around in a baby stroller?
 
Well, I would argue that is one of the core problems that people don't want to admit to: money has nothing to do with having kids. The fact is, the people lying about a lack of finances are just trying to hide the fact that they are hedonists who do not want to sacrifice their luxuries in order to have kids. I don't respect that viewpoint at all, but I could at least tolerate it if people were honest, but instead they pretend that they need welfare to provide those luxuries in order for them to have children
I bolded the part where your argument breaks down.

Welfare and people having no money are the opposite. When people complain about the lack of money meaning no family, what they mean is they're working a full time job, maybe a "side hustle" or two just to get rent and groceries. Even if they make good money, a lot of women won't touch them, or are so obviously gold digging as to be repugnant.
 
Nearly everyone who says $100K is too little to feed a munchkin is single. You're not too poor to have a family; you're too socially inept.
"Whaaaat I can't give up my heckin'fancy restaurants and vacations to pay for diapers and clothes and doctor visits! Conspicious consumption is a virtue, and being thrifty for the sake of my children is too much to ask!" --people who shouldn't reproduce anyway.
 
View attachment 8944966

Just dropping this off here so that y'all get an idea of what a "good" income is now. That's the 90th percentile that I want you to concentrate on. Frankly, if you're making $85k by age 30, you're beating out 90% of the country. Zoomers whining about not making $100k first job are faggots. Yes, you see it correctly. A 25 year old fresh engineer making $75k is actually top 90 percentile. Very few people can afford a middle class family all by themselves. You're either on welfare or you're married with two incomes. But realize, if you have two incomes, you can bring in $70k with fairly little effort at age 30.

What you'd call the "middle class" of the US is shrinking quite rapidly and becoming descriptive of far fewer persons. And yet, I still play babysitter to semi-retarded college students who can't read a damn fucking set of instructions. These fuckers graduate and quickly end up making $60k+. What the hell is going on? Is most of the "middle class" actually pursuing disney fairytale dream jobs with no actual jobs waiting for them? It's the only way I can parse 90 percentile income being so low and being surrounded by idiot undergraduates who keep insisting they're worth $100k while being incapable of making a plot correctly. It's not hard.

Anyways, reddit argument aside, there's actually no particular connection between income and TFR. This is just an excuse hedonists make to justify pleasure seeking behavior. If you won't have a kid with $50k, you won't have one with $200k. You'll just get a dog and treat it like a child.
You also need to remember how fucking stupid the typical American is. 60% of Americans read below a 6th grade level and 20% are functionally illiterate. Of course theyre poor, what kind of job can somebody who cant fucking read perform? Even getting a meme degree in general studies or communications and becoming a useless office drone who does nothing in the DMV or something would be a pretty serious accomplishment for them. As for the people in school youre talking about theyre not gonna be using 90% of the stuff theyre forced to learn anyway and they know it. I dont invest much effort into the fluff classes Im taking for my engineering degree either.
 
Welfare and people having no money are the opposite. When people complain about the lack of money meaning no family, what they mean is they're working a full time job, maybe a "side hustle" or two just to get rent and groceries. Even if they make good money, a lot of women won't touch them, or are so obviously gold digging as to be repugnant.
Interesting little trend. Marital infidelity and single mother rates are inversely related to income. Part of this is stupid people tend to be poor and stupid people tend to have poor impulse control (this is perfectly mirrored in racial statistics as well when you sort by IQ). Ergo, stupid -> single mom plus infidelity. So, this ends up in a situation where disproportionately lower class men remain single because their women are far more likely to be single moms and cheating hos. The intelligence of men for the low income bracket, ironically, has almost no meaningful correlation with single mother rates because it only takes a very small fraction of men to sire all of the bastards in an area. So, the traits selected for in their areas is increased thugishness and low impulse control amongst the men too because the most sexually aggressive men are selected for (yes, I am describing niggers). It's only once intelligence can improve the desirability of men to monogamous women that you see a change in selection criteria. But that's a trait specific to educated or religious demographics.

So, the dominant breeding strategy in welfare states varies drastically by income level (and IQ). Lower class idiots just breed randomly like animals, have low rates of marriage, and any lack of income is made up by welfare and tolerance for low living standards. This gets mucked up for middle class midwits. They're smart enough not to breed randomly and don't qualify for welfare benefits that would make up for a lack of income when they do have kids. You need to recall that welfare benefits can end up being 5 figures per year and frequently include free daycare services. So, at the lower end of the middle class, they trend toward hedonism when it becomes available and cling to it. You have to reach extremely high levels of wealth to out earn hedonism and revert to desiring children, who will thereafter be taken care of by nannies so they don't interfere with your hedonism.

Bear in mind, hedonism takes many forms. There's an interesting trend in China now. Childless, unwed business women in their late 30's that can't find a husband. They dedicated the first 20 years of their adult life to education and work. Now, they expect a prize at the other end of it all. However, the desirable men they want don't desire them. Work became a hedonistic goal to these women and it became preferable to gain social status through a career than through marriage and motherhood. Work is deemed largely acceptable as a male hedonistic goal because males have longer before becoming sterile and it can be used to pay for the expenses of a family, and ideally a stay-at-home wife.

What's the moral of the story here? Welfare probably raises the TFR but only for retards whose kids would otherwise starve to death. The only form of welfare that "might" raise the TFR for non-retards would be extended maternity leave, and even that hasn't had a great deal of success in countries like Sweden, because work is a goal in and of itself. Be it doggo, travel, or work, hedonism rules the middle class. This demographic is being squeezed on every side by the globalization of the modern attention and financial economy that makes the competition to excel too stiff to be easily achievable by most. Killing the internet and international trade might actually be the silver bullet to make humans breed. Good luck pushing total phone and chinkslop death though.
 
Im surprised the elites were so short sighted they didnt try to stop the internet from existing like they did with books and the printing press back in the middle ages.
 
Im surprised the elites were so short sighted they didnt try to stop the internet from existing like they did with books and the printing press back in the middle ages.
They built the damn thing. internet came from DARPAnet. The internet also created a massive productivity increase that let them take on more public debt. They would be able to resist the internet as much as bossmanjack could resist crack
 
Im surprised the elites were so short sighted they didnt try to stop the internet from existing like they did with books and the printing press back in the middle ages.
They are.

Early internet was dismissed as a novelty for nerds and perverts. Once it went mainstream around 2006 or so, that's when normies got involved. It was just the thing people used to pirate movies and share family photos and memes. By the time 2010 or so was when the elite started to take it seriously, and by then the cat was out of the bag.
 
Early internet was dismissed as a novelty for nerds and perverts.
Early internet was massive for academics, government, and businesses. Replacing fax machines with emails and hosting data at centralized servers was revolutionary for productivity. It just wasn't remotely fast enough to deliver entertainment for the masses and until DSL became mainstream it ate up your phone line. DSL was the real starting point for the internet ruining the world. Globohomo didn't need to care about the internet until the 2010's because, for all practical purposes, the average person would rather watch cable television than surf the web. Now, they surf netflix. The more things change the more they stay the same.
 
Back
Top Bottom