Piracy General

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Depends on the people.

The Cutting Room Floor is an example of bad gatekeeping
True, but 'good' gatekeeping could have prevented it by attempting to keep retards like that out of the project space. Although I think TCRF was his project from the start (the website/wiki itself rather than the content obviously)? Hard to gatekeep someone from ruining their own shit I guess.
 
There's your first problem -- attempting to monetize copyright infringement. That's never an indicator of "quality." That's a danger sign in big neon letters saying "endless bullshit trap ahead, oh and it wants your money."

I won't try to claim some high and mighty "moral" position since copyright infringement is already a "gray" area even for people who openly reject it as a "criminal" act -- you are still obtaining something for free that's not intended by its owners to be available for free -- but I will absolutely moralize on trying to make money off of other people trying to distribute something no one involved owns, didn't create and has no "legal" claim to.
 
I have to ask: Why are IPT torrents so damned big? Most IPT torrents are at least 10x the size of their YIFY counterparts and I rarely use IPT as a result.
Because many IPTorrents use the raw files ripped from DVDs or Blu Ray while other trackers remux and transcode the files to make them more accesible. 4K Blu Rays can exceed 80 Gbps for example.
 
TorrentFreak: AI-Built Torrent Site Looks Inside Downloads to Catch Fakes and Malware (archive) (ghost) (mega)
In recent years, AI has made it much easier to create new websites and tools. That also applies to pirate sites, including TorrentClaw, a torrent search engine that’s largely built with AI. The site's TrueSpec feature, for example, checks what’s inside torrents. The results reveal a recurring malware trick, where a genuine VLC player is used as a decoy to load a malicious file.
 
There's your first problem -- attempting to monetize copyright infringement. That's never an indicator of "quality." That's a danger sign in big neon letters saying "endless bullshit trap ahead, oh and it wants your money."

I won't try to claim some high and mighty "moral" position since copyright infringement is already a "gray" area even for people who openly reject it as a "criminal" act -- you are still obtaining something for free that's not intended by its owners to be available for free -- but I will absolutely moralize on trying to make money off of other people trying to distribute something no one involved owns, didn't create and has no "legal" claim to.
I agree with this, but the original comment was about needing to maintain a ratio or even barely participate in the private tracker space no? Just keeping your torrents seeding for extended periods of time is enough to keep access.
Gatekeeping people who want the benefits (however much you or I might think they are worth the hassle sometimes) of a private tracker without putting in the slightest effort to follow basic rules like 'seed your downloaded files' will never be a bad thing.
 
I still tagged it "Winner," but refer to my previous post about the dangers of people monetizing piracy.

ETA:
Gatekeeping people who want the benefits (however much you or I might think they are worth the hassle sometimes) of a private tracker without putting in the slightest effort to follow basic rules like 'seed your downloaded files' will never be a bad thing.
The user was banned for literally not doing anything, as in "not consuming resources, not logging in, not downloading, not seeding." Not being punished for "leeching," but for "not using the service," which is an absolutely bizarre reason to periodically alter a database record from "enabled=true" to "enabled=false." It's not like a record sitting in a database is "consuming resources just by being there" in any significant way.

If you were actually leeching, or constantly browsing and never downloading to such an extent you were actually impacting server performance (though that indicates other server-side problems, since routine browsing/querying shouldn't kill a service), that'd be one thing. But just "you didn't download anything for three months so you're BANNED!" is autistic and retarded.
 
The user was banned for literally not doing anything, as in "not consuming resources, not logging in, not downloading, not seeding." Not being punished for "leeching," but for "not using the service," which is an absolutely bizarre reason to periodically alter a database record from "enabled=true" to "enabled=false." It's not like a record sitting in a database is "consuming resources just by being there" in any significant way.
Fair, an inactive account is by definition not consuming many resources, beyond the overhead caused when they iterate over their torrents and count seeds/peers/leeches which would be tiny, not worth considering.
Private trackers do enforce user limits though, either for the resource limits mentioned or more likely to cull the inactive/non-participating users and try to make sure everyone in the community is doing something. Removing a dead/inactive account opens it up for someone to join and do more than that at least.
 
an inactive account is by definition not consuming many resources
No, an inactive account is by definition not using any resources.

Removing a dead/inactive account opens it up for someone to join and do more than that at least.
"Opens it up"? As in "frees space"? How so? The resource was already not being consumed. The "expired" user isn't deleted entirely (which would eventually "save space" via reclamation/database vacuum), just disabled, so if anything, it's a record that's now an unusable "lump," taking up space with no hope of ever contributing more.

In fact, that's wasting capacity since if the user tries to come back, they'll try to log in, hit an error, then maybe do the password reset flow thinking their account is "locked" for some security-related reason, only to eventually find out "oh, I'm just banned for inactivity." All those requests served, pages rendered, network traffic used, etc., all in service of a user who cannot possibly ever meaningfully contribute again but doesn't know it yet. And if they contact the site admins to politely inquire? More time wasted. Probably a snarky, attitude-laden dismissal from an admin (who no doubt complains about being "overworked," the poor thing) too. Even if it's polite in both directions, it's still time wasted for no reason.

It just doesn't make any actual sense when you take the time to unpack it. It superficially "sounds good," but, well, computers don't really work that way. You know the best way to encourage your users to actually use your service? Send 'em an email once a month or so. It's free, easy, can be unsubscribed/turned off, and doesn't send the utterly hostile "fuck you" tone that "if you don't use your account in X days we'll just turn it off, fuck you for having a life or not being greedy!" so obviously does.

It's pointless to debate anyway. They're going to do whatever autistic control-freak shit they want to do. It's theirs to lord over as they please, after all. It's just silly and arbitrary, with no real point, but you'll never convince them (or their sycophants) of that.

It's about as dumb as people bitching about "thread necro" on a discussion forum (y'know, where people go to "talk" about things), that weird notion that once a topic hasn't been talked about for awhile, it can never be talked about ever again under penalty of permaban, either in that thread or a new one. Go ahead and try to "renew" a topic in a "dead" thread on a forum where "necro'ing" is a punishable offense by posting a new thread about it -- you'll just be pointed to the dead thread (and your new thread will be locked) and when you try to discuss it there, you'll get banned for "necro'ing."

It's like people are too stupid to understand what things are meant for in the first place. "We made this thing, BUT BY GOD DON'T YOU DARE USE IT!" (or, as in this torrent site's case, "you're not consuming our resources enough so you're banned now! Also hey guys we're running another donation drive because we're having capacity problems!" ... and no, I don't know that this site in particular actually does the latter, but it absolutely wouldn't shock me; clearly "good decision making and clear reasoning" isn't in their repertoire if they're banning people who don't download "often enough").
 
No, an inactive account is by definition not using any resources.
Without knowing how the underlying tracker technology functions, I cannot say that it uses literally none. I doubt you can either. They measure peers/seeders/leechers per torrent. This requires polling, this is not free.
"Opens it up"? As in "frees space"? How so? The resource was already not being consumed. The "expired" user isn't deleted entirely (which would eventually "save space" via reclamation/database vacuum), just disabled, so if anything, it's a record that's now an unusable "lump," taking up space with no hope of ever contributing more.
'Opens it up' as in makes room for someone who would (hopefully) utilize the tracker. As in, download, contribute, seed etc. If they got to the point of inactivity that got them disabled, what expectation is there that they will have a change of heart and come back and be 'productive' in any case? At that point, keeping their id/username/etc on hand to block them is the gatekeeping.
It's pointless to debate anyway. They're going to do whatever autistic control-freak shit they want to do. It's theirs to lord over as they please, after all. It's just silly and arbitrary, with no real point, but you'll never convince them (or their sycophants) of that.
This I agree with. If you do not like the rules of the super secret tracker club, just do not participate. You have to go out of your way to even get in after all, anything else sounds like sour grapes.
It's like people are too stupid to understand what things are meant for in the first place. "We made this thing, BUT BY GOD DON'T YOU DARE USE IT!" (or, as in this torrent site's case, "you're not consuming our resources enough so you're banned now! Also hey guys we're running another donation drive because we're having capacity problems!" ... and no, I don't know that this site in particular actually does the latter, but it absolutely wouldn't shock me; clearly "good decision making and clear reasoning" isn't in their repertoire if they're banning people who don't download "often enough").
I see it as removing the digital equivalent of loiterers. If you are not going to participate, fuck off and make way for someone who might. 'Paying customers only' where by downloading/seeding you pay your way as it were.
 
Without knowing how the underlying tracker technology functions, I cannot say that it uses literally none. I doubt you can either. They measure peers/seeders/leechers per torrent. This requires polling, this is not free.
I can. Welcome to my wheelhouse. A user who is not connected to a tracker does not consume any of its resources, because that user is not connected to the tracker. The tracker tracks connected users. There is no reason to track anything else. It is not concerned with anything not talking to it (it can't be; its purview is "active clients in the swam," which, by definition, an inactive client cannot be). In fact the tracker doesn't actually care about "users" in the first place; private trackers use authentication tokens which they validate (once or periodically) against a backend (which talks to an underlying database separately, usually PostgreSQL (on a sane system) or MariaDB/MySQL (on a less-sane system)). The token gets correlated to a user ID (which is as far as the tracker takes it) when it reports its metrics.

Those statistics (active torrents, bytes sent/received, total connected peers/seeds, etc.) are accumulated over time, not via database queries, but via the tracker itself. The tracker knows how many users (and which ones) are connected to it at any given time (it has to because of what it's doing). The tracker either makes those metrics available via an API (that a separate process periodically polls -- this is the "prometheus" model of "exporter+polling") or pushes them to a separate service itself (this is the "grafana alloy" model of "gather+push"). In either case, the tracker doesn't write anything to any database anywhere directly; whatever element concerns itself with those statistics fetches (or receives) them, accumulates them itself, and periodically writes them to a database somewhere.

On high-efficiency systems (which I do not allege this site is, since they're concerning themselves with this kind of resource consumption as if it's an actual problem, even though it still isn't and I'll get to that), that kind of data is stored in a TSDB (time-series database). The "classic" example of this is Toby Oetiker's RRDtool, still used in production in countless installations today, but more modern implementations are Prometheus, Clickhouse, InfluxDB, etc. They're optimized for large-scale numeric metric aggregation, querying and reporting. None of that goes into the SQL database that's servicing the user-facing web site or even the admin stuff or back-end handling the tracker and the torrents it serves. A bittorrent tracker knows nothing about these engines.

You say "this requires polling, this is not free," which is not true. The tracker does not conduct a periodic sweep of "who was connected before that is no longer connected now?" That's not how it works. There is no "polling"; bittorrent trackers do not query clients. Bittorrent clients don't actually stay connected to the tracker under normal operation; they periodically check in (or "announce") to provide updated information on a per-torrent basis and request current peer information from the tracker (this is why if you're seeding hundreds of torrents and you restart your client, if it's a good one it won't "flood" the tracker with hundreds of "hey I'm here and seeding now!" requests all at once because it's rude and can result in throttling). Each client "check-in" is a single request, received by the tracker (and processed, or not), and ideally replied to. Clients will continue to operate as best they can in the last-known state provided by the trackers for each torrent, even if an attempt to talk to a tracker results in a timeout or even an error (this is why "unregistered torrent" errors aren't fatal -- if even one known client, reachable by any method, whether it's another tracker, or DHT, or just the cache, has a full copy of the data, other clients can still retrieve it and the swarm can survive).

Bittorrent is an event-driven peer-to-peer protocol. The tracker sits in an endless loop, waiting for requests on its configured network port. Those requests are all "announcements" from clients. One-shots. The low-level action is "connect to port, transmit request payload, await response [until timeout is reached], disconnect upon reply or timeout". The announcement includes the torrent information, currently known peers, chunks currently available to the announcing client, and bytes transferred (in both directions) since the last successful announcement. The response to the announcement is expected to include currently-known peers and seeds (on success) or an explanatory error message ("invalid authentication token," "torrent not registered," etc.) on failure. A client trying to permanently leave a connection to the tracker open is a malfunction; the protocol allows the tracker to close such connections itself without warning or notice.

Literally none of this involves inactive users. A client that is not participating in a torrent swarm is simply not talking to the tracker. The tracker maintains a cache of known clients, yes, but eventually (after a configurable period of time, ranging from hours to days) a client that hasn't announced for awhile just naturally times out of the cache and isn't mentioned again to other clients as an available/valid peer until/unless it comes back and announces again.

Now ... on the subject of performance optimization, there are "naive" ways to implement a bittorrent tracker, and I've no doubt there are low-traffic sites that do so. They are always low-traffic sites because without a bit of consideration and forethought, such trackers can never serve a high-traffic site (they will experience performance problems before they can reach "high-traffic" numbers). A naive tracker implementation will actually connect to a backend SQL database and query it regularly for torrent information (rather than relying on a REST request to some kind of middleware for it), which makes it brittle for several reasons (not the least of which being the direct dependency on the underlying database engine, its exact schema and syntax, etc. instead of abstracting it and letting a middleware handle the minutia as it should do), and an especially naive one might actually try to write raw performance metrics to an SQL database and then present them dynamically on-demand using straight SQL queries that do full table scans to gather those numbers up because they tend to not know how to use things like "indexes" and "views with aggregate functions."

I do not know exactly which tracker (home-brewed or off-the-shelf) this particular site uses, and I don't really care because it doesn't matter. What I can be sure of is nothing they're doing, no matter how they're doing it, involves their tracker actively checking for "inactive" users on a periodic polling basis. There is no reason to do so, no mechanism to do so, and nothing to "poll." You have a list of known clients and their last announce time. That's your source of truth. Nothing else is relevant (or available).

'Opens it up' as in makes room for someone who would (hopefully) utilize the tracker. As in, download, contribute, seed etc. If they got to the point of inactivity that got them disabled, what expectation is there that they will have a change of heart and come back and be 'productive' in any case? At that point, keeping their id/username/etc on hand to block them is the gatekeeping.
Again, the inactive account consumes no resources whatsoever. A few bytes in a table at most, at rest. There is nothing in flight for an inactive user. No active mechanism concerns itself with them. Like, at all. They are not "taking up a slot" someone else could be using instead. There is no "slot" to take in that sense of the word. "Slots" are created on-demand. Many bittorrent clients also operate on that metaphor, in fact. Go look at qBitTorrent's queue manager for an example. They call it "slots" there too -- max simultaneous uploads and downloads -- but again, those are all active connections. Inactive connections just get timed out and reused elsewhere.

As for "what expectation is there they will have a change of heart?" How about sending an email? "Hey, we haven't seen you in awhile. Come on back and check out what's new!" How hard is that, exactly? Why would you automatically assume a recipient of such an email would think "oh man fuck those guys what a bunch of assholes!" and not "oh shit, I totally forgot about that site, yeah, I should go check that out tonight after work!"

I see it as removing the digital equivalent of loiterers. If you are not going to participate, fuck off and make way for someone who might. 'Paying customers only' where by downloading/seeding you pay your way as it were.
The difference is an "inactive" user is not "loitering." They are not "taking up space someone else could be using" like a car parked for a week at a convenience store with only three parking spaces in the lot. An "inactive" user is simply not currently consuming your resources or using your service. I have a Minecraft account (Mojang/pre-Microsoft). But I'm not playing Minecraft right now, and haven't played for about a month. Am I "loitering" on Mojang's/Microsoft's authentication servers because I haven't cranked it up for a month? No, not really. I'm just not using their resources right now to authenticate a local client. I am not occupying a "slot" someone else could be using on their authentication server. No such "slot" exists.

You could make this argument for something like a hosted email service, where if you haven't logged into your web mail account (or IMAP/POP3 client) for, like, a year, you could make the argument that the mailbox is "abandoned" and can be safely closed/disabled. But that's a meaningful distinction, since even if the user hasn't logged in for a year, if the mailbox is active you still have to accept mail sent to it and you still have to store their email even if they haven't read it for a year. That's resource consumption even in the user's absence -- you're actively receiving email and routing it to that user's mailbox in their absence and storing it on their behalf. An inactive user still consumes resources on an email service.

There is no equivalent in bittorrent. Either you've announced to the tracker recently or you haven't. Either you're a peer (seeding or leeching) on a tracked torrent or you're not. If you're not, you're invisible, and consuming no resources at all.
 
There's your first problem -- attempting to monetize copyright infringement. That's never an indicator of "quality." That's a danger sign in big neon letters saying "endless bullshit trap ahead, oh and it wants your money."
I think the point @Civilian 18 was making is that there are some retards out there who'll sell pirated content to other retards.
Otherwise you end up with situations like Myrient where tiktok retards create 'tools' that overload the services and fuck it up for everyone by selling it to retards or just for 'clout'.
If you're paying for pirated content, you're doing it wrong.
I will absolutely moralize on trying to make money off of other people trying to distribute something no one involved owns, didn't create and has no "legal" claim to.
I agree. I'd go as far as to say I find it both morally and ethically repugnant to hand money / crypto to someone who does nothing more than selling content they don't own.

One large tin of small invertebrates I can't help opening up is where to draw the line. Obviously I'm not going to fork out money for a hacked Android box to access pirated streaming services or buy a pirated physical copy of something I could download for free.

However I wouldn't have a problem with paying for a Usenet provider, even if the only thing I use it for is pirating content from alt.binaries.* groups. The pirates aren't getting any money from me, and technically speaking a paid Usenet provider would replace a service that my ISP used to give me for free once upon a time.

However. I understand why some people would strongly disagree with this statement, as the only reason I'd have said Usenet service in the first place is for piracy ergo I'm paying money to pirate, even if it's not for the benefit of a specific pirate or piracy group.

I couldn't see myself donating funds to keep a tracker online unless it's a tracker that I find highly valuable, as that sits right on my boundary of ethics in piracy. Again, the money doesn't go a particular pirate, but it's definitely one step closer than the Usenet example above.
 
I can. Welcome to my wheelhouse
Sincerely, thanks for the explanation, I learned shit today.
The difference is an "inactive" user is not "loitering." They are not "taking up space someone else could be using" like a car parked for a week at a convenience store with only three parking spaces in the lot. An "inactive" user is simply not currently consuming your resources or using your service. I have a Minecraft account (Mojang/pre-Microsoft). But I'm not playing Minecraft right now, and haven't played for about a month. Am I "loitering" on Mojang's/Microsoft's authentication servers because I haven't cranked it up for a month? No, not really. I'm just not using their resources right now to authenticate a local client. I am not occupying a "slot" someone else could be using on their authentication server. No such "slot" exists.
The distinction here though is that a tracker with 10,000 members slots has that limit arbitrarily. If they find themselves at 11,000 members, they will look to cull the users not participating. Just because there is no actual 'real' limit to the number of users, they want to keep it 'exclusive' or incentivize actually using it.
The 'resource' they are actually using is a 'slot' for a user who seeds (and in shitty trackers, milked for donations etc)
 
Sincerely, thanks for the explanation, I learned shit today.
Based as fuck :story:.

And for the record, I'm not "mad" or anything, just in case it seemed like it. This shit's fun to analyze in depth and bittorrent is a surprisingly efficient protocol for moving huge amounts of data around very inexpensively, so it's a great example of an efficient system that only slows down when people try to over-engineer it. You can host large-scale trackers on minimal hardware. For example, OpenTrackr is serving on the order of millions of torrents and tens of millions of peers/clients, peaking at hundreds of thousands of connections per second, using OpenTracker on a single Ryzen 9 machine with 32 GB of RAM and a 10 Gbps NIC.

The distinction here though is that a tracker with 10,000 members slots has that limit arbitrarily. If they find themselves at 11,000 members, they will look to cull the users not participating. Just because there is no actual 'real' limit to the number of users, they want to keep it 'exclusive' or incentivize actually using it.
...yeah, over-engineering it like this :)

There's no actual reason to set an arbitrary limit like this. Grok estimates OpenTracker could handle about 100k announcements per second (sustained), hundreds of thousands (to low millions) of simultaneous peers while serving hundreds of thousands of torrents on a literal Raspberry Pi 5. Expressed as a "rough order-of-magnitude estimate, extrapolating from published x86 numbers, known ARM efficiency and OpenTracker's known behavior." The network is usually the first major bottleneck; just going from the built-in gigabit ethernet to a USB 2.5 gigabit adapter will let it scale further with no other changes.

As @Dante Alighieri points out, that's a feigned "prestige" or "vanity" thing more than anything else. There's no technical reason to silently ban "inactive" users. They're a fleck of dust in a sandstorm (so to speak).
 
...yeah, over-engineering it like this :)

There's no actual reason to set an arbitrary limit like this. Grok estimates OpenTracker could handle about 100k announcements per second (sustained), hundreds of thousands (to low millions) of simultaneous peers while serving hundreds of thousands of torrents on a literal Raspberry Pi 5. Expressed as a "rough order-of-magnitude estimate, extrapolating from published x86 numbers, known ARM efficiency and OpenTracker's known behavior." The network is usually the first major bottleneck; just going from the built-in gigabit ethernet to a USB 2.5 gigabit adapter will let it scale further with no other changes.

As @Dante Alighieri points out, that's a feigned "prestige" or "vanity" thing more than anything else. There's no technical reason to silently ban "inactive" users. They're a fleck of dust in a sandstorm (so to speak).
I agree there is no technical reason to do so, it is purely to maintain or cultivate a group of people who are willing to do at least the bare minimum of the secret cool kids club of using the service. Which is gatekeeping, and I still think it is good :story:
 
Remind me again why using an open-source 2FA authenticator like KeePass is a bad thing?
Because just like with my school account, I don’t give enough of a single shit about a piracy account to want to bother with 2FA. Or in the opposite direction, if I have to log into the account one too many times it just becomes infuriating to use. While still being technically 1FA, OTPs are also fucking annoying.

There's your first problem
Selling fringe benefits to maintaining a site is fine for my part. Having torrents locked behind paywalls is another. Most torrenting sites opt for the former. - Piracy sites aiming to have some quality control and standards, I can only root for.

Because many IPTorrents use the raw files ripped from DVDs or Blu Ray while other trackers remux and transcode the files to make them more accesible. 4K Blu Rays can exceed 80 Gbps for example.
Which results in better quality. I kind of fucking hate remux, to the nearest .1%, 100% of remuxed content removes the originals quality dramatically. I have multiple versions of The Ring, and only the non remuxed one looks amazing at 4K.
 
Which is gatekeeping, and I still think it is good :story:
...no, it really isn't. It's just arbitrary and pointless. Someone could just reappear 1 day prior to their 90-day timeout, perform the requisite minimal activity, then disappear again for 89 more days and chew up that slot. Gate bypassed, gatekeeping failed. While wasting resources, btw.

sigh... all that progress lost.

ETA:
Because just like with my school account, I don’t give enough of a single shit about a piracy account to want to bother with 2FA. Or in the opposite direction, if I have to log into the account one too many times it just becomes infuriating to use. While still being technically 1FA, OTPs are also fucking annoying.
It can be automated/trivialized to such an extent as to be irrelevant to your "convenience" triggers. Browser extensions exist for Keepass-compatible programs, for example, that can punch that 2FA code right in there for you without so much as reaching for your phone when challenged.

But I digress. Laziness is the surest and purest mark of a right and proper pirate and I cannot (and will not) besmirch that fine tradition :story:
 
...no, it really isn't. It's just arbitrary and pointless. Someone could just reappear 1 day prior to their 90-day timeout, perform the requisite minimal activity, then disappear again for 89 more days and chew up that slot. Gate bypassed, gatekeeping failed. While wasting resources, btw.
This theoretical person (besides being a dick) does exactly what the inactivity clause is supposed to prevent. They joined the tracker, and participated. They would simply find themselves on the second rung of users to be culled, if required. The idea is to distill the userbase into those that participate no? I feel the guy doing this to hold a place in the super secret private tracker club defeats their own purpose by participating and I feel that is a problem that will solve itself eventually.
 
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