🔎 If you see an alert for analytics.usips.org, this is a self-hosted system I am running as a test. It is GDPR compliant and collects no invasive information.
Want to keep track of this thread?
Accounts can bookmark posts, watch threads for updates, and jump back to where you stopped reading. Create account
CK2, 1066, Irish Count, Simple As
You will know if it's >for you within 30 minutes, stop faffing about and play the damn game and post your mutated abominations already.
Seconded CK2, it's the easiest to get a grasp of mechanically and get a feel for how you're going to gel. Put a few hours into, if you don't like one start just go back to main menu and try another as something different (different religion, different rank, different culture, different gov, different character, etc.), as the difficulties and challenges faced can be very variable both in terms of starting position, your character's rank, culture and religion, your government type and just pure rng of what is going on around you.
I'm already planning on getting CK2, if only because it's free and has an active modding community. I am looking for something more modern to play afterwards, I have no clue what a "modern paradox game" looks like and there seems to be a lot of overlap between them so they all look the same. I need to know which newer games are the best for a beginner/easiest to pick up.
I'm already planning on getting CK2, if only because it's free and has an active modding community. I am looking for something more modern to play afterwards, I have no clue what a "modern paradox game" looks like and there seems to be a lot of overlap between them so they all look the same. I need to know which newer games are the best for a beginner/easiest to pick up.
CK2 is a modern Paradox game - it is, arguably, the first modern Paradox game because it's runaway success served as the basis for so many of Paradox's design decisions going forward (many of which have failed to trump CK2, such as GUI).
The easiest modern game outside of CK2 to pick up/be a beginner in is HoI4, but that's not praise since the game can play itself and, again, is functionally a platform for visual novels. If you're fine with that go with it, it's very popular for good reasons.
EU4 is pretty casual but has a lot of moving parts that can be intimidating at a glance. Imperator (modded) is EU4 but less casual with better integration between its mechanics.
EU5 and Victoria 2 are not casual games. Only consider them if you enjoyed entry-level Paradox titles or really love the time periods.
CK2 is a modern Paradox game - it is, arguably, the first modern Paradox game because it's runaway success served as the basis for so many of Paradox's design decisions going forward (many of which have failed to trump CK2, such as GUI).
The easiest modern game outside of CK2 to pick up/be a beginner in is HoI4, but that's not praise since the game can play itself and, again, is functionally a platform for visual novels. If you're fine with that go with it, it's very popular for good reasons.
EU4 is pretty casual but has a lot of moving parts that can be intimidating at a glance. Imperator (modded) is EU4 but less casual with better integration between its mechanics.
EU5 and Victoria 2 are not casual games. Only consider them if you enjoyed entry-level Paradox titles or really love the time periods.
What about Stellaris, I heard a lot of both positive and negative things about it. Likewise, are there any smaller titles worth playing outside the big ones? What about EU3, I've heard that one is actually better than EU4 in some aspects but I have no frame of reference. Thanks for letting me know about EU5 and Victoria 2, I will try those later if I enjoy the other titles. With CK3 and HOI4 I already did my research so at least I know what to expect, I only did a little bit on Victoria 3 and /vst/ seems to hate it, unlike with /v/ or /vg/ they seem to have somewhat good taste so I it's good I trusted them on this.
One thing you definitely should try after getting familiar with any Paradox title is modding. Each modern Paradox title has at least one total conversion mod worth playing (CK2 has one based on Game of Thrones, for example), and they're free too. There are also many quality of life mods out there if all you want is a better vanilla experience.
What about Stellaris, I heard a lot of both positive and negative things about it. Likewise, are there any smaller titles worth playing outside the big ones? What about EU3, I've heard that one is actually better than EU4 in some aspects but I have no frame of reference. Thanks for letting me know about EU5 and Victoria 2, I will try those later if I enjoy the other titles. With CK3 and HOI4 I already did my research so at least I know what to expect, I only did a little bit on Victoria 3 and /vst/ seems to hate it, unlike with /v/ or /vg/ they seem to have somewhat good taste so I it's good I trusted them on this.
I would not recommend Stellaris in its current state. The game is in a constant state of rework where it has, functionally, been five or six different games over the course of its lifespan, and each time the ai becomes more braindead, and every faction in its is totally fungible because of the way that customization works. If you have a fix for a space 4x that's doesn't have an insane barrier to entry, get Endless Space 2.
EU3, modded, may be worth it - there's a lot less content overall than EU4, but it's also less driven by mana and has more coherent dlc/expansion content. Don't know if I could recommend it over EU4 at this point though beyond anything aside from cost factor.
I would not recommend Stellaris in its current state. The game is in a constant state of rework where it has, functionally, been five or six different games over the course of its lifespan, and each time the ai becomes more braindead, and every faction in its is totally fungible because of the way that customization works. If you have a fix for a space 4x that's doesn't have an insane barrier to entry, get Endless Space 2.
EU3, modded, may be worth it - there's a lot less content overall than EU4, but it's also less driven by mana and has more coherent dlc/expansion content. Don't know if I could recommend it over EU4 at this point though beyond anything aside from cost factor.
I was told that ES2 is just a better Stellaris. Speaking of which, is there any way to play older versions of the game, and if so which one is usually considered "the best"? I assume it's trivial to just pirate the right version of the game or buy it and roll back updates, but you never know.
That's also how I came to understand EU3, less content overall but base game is better than EU4 and despite having less DLCs, there is more substance to them vs the micro DLCs that Paradox is known for now.
I was told that ES2 is just a better Stellaris. Speaking of which, is there any way to play older versions of the game, and if so which one is usually considered "the best"? I assume it's trivial to just pirate the right version of the game or buy it and roll back updates, but you never know.
That's also how I came to understand EU3, less content overall but base game is better than EU4 and despite having less DLCs, there is more substance to them vs the micro DLCs that Paradox is known for now.
ES2 is heads and shoulders above Stellaris, especially in its current state, but is also more of a Civ-like than a Paradox-like.
Best version of Stellaris is highly up to debate depending on who you ask, I personally think the 3.0-3.3. patch range after Nemesis offered the best balance for Stellaris content, where the game had been expanded enough to have a solid gsg element but wasn't so reworked that it was falling apart at the seams like it is now.
I had to move up and try the 869 start. At least in this one, you start holding a duchy and all its counties + can immediately break free as a tributary to the Tang. The 769 Chinaman experience is just too frustrating.
I looked away for a second and the protectorate seems to have disappeared. I'm assuming its because China is in civil war and it will reappear later. It says the protector general is just residing in my capital, but I can't find him anywhere except for in the China interaction window.
It didn't sit right with me, moving to an easier time period like that. I'm doing this for the sake of the challenge after all. So its back to 769 Chinaman I go. It only took me 60 God damn years of playing as a count, but I've finally managed to create a duchy (and some ugly borders). Hvamna became independant from Tibet and was warring with 2 other neighbours, leaving me just enough time to siege and 100% them before they could react to my attack. Those 2 little yellow counties above The Taklamakan desert, they now allowed me to form the duchy of Yanqi (doodle dixie)
For this attempt, I went in with the idea that I just need to be more patient. Do not get excited and attack a neighbour the moment they have a civil war, remember any loss of my troops will result in immediate nomad rape of every holding in my demesne. Keep upgrading holdings and farming 5000 grace so i can request for China to nuke Tibet and let me pick up some of the pieces. Keeping the "build war chest" ambition, yet never letting my wealth go above the threshold for fulfilling the ambition (300 gold for a count) meant I was able to repeatedly extort my vassals for all their money, just to put it right back in to building up the holdings within my demesne counties. That was my entire strategy, along with waiting for business focus events to fire. Almost every vassal and courtier hated me due to -140 Tyrant opinion on account of extortion being my sole income, but it also seems they can't do jack shit about it at such insignificant rank, being vassals to a count. It also really helped this time that my first heir had 10 learning, so upon succession I could finally join the only society available to Taoists in this part of the world: The Hermetic Society.
(unfortunately I have had no luck converting to a more war-like religion this time, though I honestly might have rejected an early conversion this run, seeing as being Taoist gives more passive grace)
(I reached the highest rank in the hermetics and wrote a magnum opus only for it to be stolen by horse niggers)
By the time I got 4000 grace, China entered a period of isolationism and civil unrest, thus disallowing me to even use the grace I hoarded. It is now in a civil war and it looks like the Tang are about to fall, wiping my grace back to zero. Fuck my nigger life.
Really wish I just settled for requesting some commanders and a mail order Chinese super wife via Arrange Imperial Marriage.
Lucked out with a Grey Eminence, Genius, Arbitrary, Ambitious, Diligent, Gregarious and Kind grandson, who I've married to an Attractive lady for even more genetic superiority. He is now a sole heir (after his father). I've had to give his uncle a temple and castrate his baby brother to make it so, but you gotta do what you gotta do. I'm not exhaggerating when I say that forming a duchy as 769 Chinaman is one of the hardest things I've done in CK. This start has also really taught me the importance of switching from Agnatic to Agnatic-Cognatic to avoid game over. Trying to maintain a sole heir for successions sake fucked me more than once. Having daughters to fall back on as successors might have resulted in continuation of some very promising runs earlier, if I had prioritised changing to agnatic-cognatic before extorting my vassals in to despising me, thus disallowing changes to succession law.
The realm as it stands: Blue region just broke away as a tributary to the Protectorate and is giving tribute to Kirghiz now. Tibet is still holding strong despite at one point being ruled by a 1 year old girl (who is now still in charge at 30 years old). I own all counties within the Protectorate's realm (yellow), save for one county belonging to the Protector General. I'm still not entirely sure how the independence war works when he has tributaries, but I'm going to err on the side of caution and become a king before trying to rebel. I think the only way to break free as a vassal to the Protectorate is war, unlike a tributaries ability to simply decide they are no longer a tributary when China is in civil war.
Hit or miss, it's serviceable and lots of shit to do but said shit is surface level and mediocre. Jack of all trades, master of none. The game constantly gets reworked so you're constantly relearning parts of the game that may be significantly worse than before, new content is usually buggy and may cause unholy lag (on top of being overpriced) which is unsurprising since I'm 99% sure they're using endless jeets and AI generation, the economy is dogshit, the combat is meh, both are very easily abused or will trigger an endless downward spiral, I could go on.
What "good" there is in the game comes from the fact that barely anyone is filling the niche that Paradox has claimed for years now, it's pretty much the only reason I can really think of for why it has tens of thousands of players despite all the issues and blatant disregard and disrespect of its player base. There's nothing else. Honestly this Steam review sums many of my issues up nicely.
TL;DR Standard Paradox game, get on sale and pirate the DLC, genocide billions just so it can run smoothly, quit midway because it barely has anything going for it.
Except for that one DLC (assuming you're talking about Endless Space 2), they outsourced to another company and they immediately fucked it up with broken, annoying mechanics (mostly the Academy) and arguably one of the most boring factions in the game lead by a WE WUZ.
Except for that one DLC (assuming you're talking about Endless Space 2), they outsourced to another company and they immediately fucked it up with broken, annoying mechanics (mostly the Academy) and arguably one of the most boring factions in the game lead by a WE WUZ.
Sseth's review is a bit out of date, Awakening is fine now since they added in settings to control Isyander's expansion (meaning you can just prevent the Academy from expanding via map settings and it's on by default) and tweaked the ai to not be aggressive against passing scout ships. I've been playing multi with some friends for the past few weeks and none of us have had issues with the Academy thanks to it.
Isyander's motives are actually the opposite of WE WUZ - he wants to bring back the Lost to atone for both the sins of the Endless and the Vodyani (the faction he was initially a part of). That said he does awaken the Nakalim, who are literally WE WUZers.
Stellaris is more of an exploration and diplomacy game.
Endless Space 2 is more of a conquest game. You start off in ES in a cold war where you can fight eachother for new colonies and are more likely to have actual wars right from the start forced on you. Regardless of what victory type you go for you are probably going to be fighting and conquering.
The first Endless Space is also worth trying. I kinda wish ES2 kept the darker tone and insanity of the first game. In ES1 there were plagues that would wipe entire systems down to a single pop and intentionally spreading the plague to other players was the optimal strat to dealing with that. Having a more efficient economy meant terraforming planets into miserable gas giant worlds propped up by drug/luxury consumption. ES2 is still cutthroat and a little cynical, but not in the same way.
Sseth's review is a bit out of date, Awakening is fine now since they added in settings to control Isyander's expansion (meaning you can just prevent the Academy from expanding via map settings and it's on by default) and tweaked the ai to not be aggressive against passing scout ships. I've been playing multi with some friends for the past few weeks and none of us have had issues with the Academy thanks to it.
I played Awakening about a day after release, hated it and forgot it existed. At least they tweaked it to be less shit but I still think it's overall shit after replaying it.
"Can you tell me how to do this thing?"
"You should start off by identifying the problem — That should help!"
I don't think we can Jugaad our way out of this, bhai.
Expands on content for the True Cross Christian heresy in After the End, only the cucked Californian-influenced version of Christianity has any of the flavor, so I just gave TC some more flavor and added a True Cross ruler with huge martial to Nevada.
It is a strange combination of Civ and Crusader Kings. The difference is that the tile combat is actually good and the character decisions are meaningful game mechanics instead of gimmicky roleplay. It is also not in space or fantasy like Stellaris or Endless Space.
The best contrast to Stellaris is probably Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri (not that I played it).
Stellaris tried to be, exactly like you said, all things to all people. Here's a toybox of moving parts of science fiction tropes so you can have any science fiction scenario you want. Except then it's nothing to anybody, generic sludge.
Alpha Centauri was ALSO procedurally generated and still managed to burrow in people's minds (I know it entirely from watching YouTube videos as a kid of the projects, the quotes, reading TV Tropes embarassingly) because it had a specific vision for its setting and took itself seriously.
Better point of contrast: Slaves to Armok, both Dwarf Fortress and the one nobody plays, since they are also random genre world generators with a cosmicist metaplot about an endless cycle of creation.
The first one was an insubstantial mess of whatever the Adams brothers thought cool. Toady said a noteworthy simile about the project which I forgot, to the effect that he was working on anything but the core of the RPG. Dwarf Fortress was a reset that rectified this error, laser focusing on everything that was relevant to simulating the inhabitants of a Moria scenario with some special treats for the villains of your story. And even though it was designed for a grounded fantasy world, the chassis was strong enough that modders rebuilt it to be about Tolkien, Sergals, Fallout Vaults, My Little Pony, Ponies in Fallout, cybernetic vampire wizards, and so on.
If Yandere Simulator was correctly managed, you'd be seeing dozens of people building their own closed murder simulations inside of its mechanics, rebranding it as a magic school, specific anime franchises, outer space, completely non-school scenarios, all taking advantage of this theoretical good game's NPC customization and event flags. The fact that it never had its own Brony subculture proves that it's just a tangled net of unity scripts.
Stellaris is meanwhile the only Paradox GSG to have no total conversion mods to speak of, because it's a bubble. It is not deep enough that people try building custom scenarios running according to its core game mechanics, which have no permanence or substance to speak of. They just promise new gizmos to distract you from the total unimportance of its simulation. The case of the multiple choice FTL drives, and their removal, illustrates this. Paradox promised something they couldn't figure out, just because it meant more TV Tropes articles, and squatted every poppy above the hyperlane grass when they realized that it was a project above their grade. While I did miss it when the change came and canonically exterminating everybody who picked the 'wrong' option didn't help, I also find the whole situation a perfect example of their fanservice-driven game design and its weakness.
What? New Dawn (Star Wars), New Horizons (Star Trek), Mass Effect: A new Destiny, Astra Invicta (named after Terra Invicta probably), Warhammer M41, various other mods that have came and gone that are a mix of the aforementioned TCs and more.
