Paper Mario Series

[The Lawgiver]

It also needs to have the voice chirps replaced with something that doesn't make me want to gouge my ears out.

it's trying to do the kinda shit undertale did with it's speech mumble somehow without understanding why that sounded good in that game. Paper Mario ALREADY had it's version of that with the text scroll noises that have become an iconic staple of the series so changing it to something that's aping something that's aping nintendo makes it really feel off on top of it being a more annoying variant of it.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

It's not just Vivian that needs to be modded, the entire script needs a do-over since it's overly sanitized compared to the original.

Yep, Vivian is the big one but there's quite a few bad changes being overshadowed by the tranny shit.

 

[Colon capital V]

The vivian localization mod got reuploaded! let's look at this true and honest reaction from the gamebanana community. View attachment 6039016View attachment 6039017View attachment 6039018View attachment 6039019
Jesus, it's just a game. Anyway. I've downloaded the mod before it eventually gets scrapped again. It's in the attachments.

>Upload de-troon mod, Gamebanana jannies clitty leak, upload it again, more clitty leaking.
You love to see it.
Now the more interesting question is will they do the same once the full 2004 restored script comes? Because the average modder wouldn't really care if some mod changed 1 part of a script in a game, however modders of the localizationfag variety are a VERY vocal and much more over-reaching group. It's one thing for a mod to pin-point a single change that's there to probably cause controversy, it's another when a complete overhaul of a script STILL gets trashed because a stinkditch eunuch tranny janny is still clitty leaking because their heckkin valid troon ghost icon got rightly corrected. And if it gets trashed because of that, you can definitely expect a small uproar around anime/localizationfag Xitter because of it.

 

[Human Institute Director]

Has anyone tried getting into the Mario & Luigi games? I've been making an attempt recently and I just can't do it. There's no real story or character development outside of the jokes and the jokes imo aren't very funny at all. Then there's the obsessive tutorials.


Currently stuck on the carrot mini game in Bowsers Inside Story. I'll probably just give up and replay Paper Mario N64 again.

Superstar Saga is great I think. It hits a different niche than Paper Mario, but it's still satisfying in a lot of similar ways... but not all. Like you said, M&L is more focused on jokes and is generally more high-octane. It reflects in its gameplay too with more real-time commands and frantic things happening, while Paper Mario is the slower more calculated RPG, with less commands and smaller numbers so you can calculate your moves and be as efficient as possible (it goes for the story and writing as well).

I like the Paper Mario formula more but some M&L is great as well. For me Superstar Saga is memorable for some of its episodes and the midpoint twist, but because it's more about fast paced comedy a lot of the rest just "blends in" my memory and I don't remember a lot of it, unlike Paper Mario.

I really wanna disagree with you, but considering how hard the early games (including the SNES RPG) rely on the "collect 7 stars to save the world"? Yeah...

That said, the characters absolutely made you forget you're playing the same basic plot yet again.

Collecting McGuffins as a story structure is fine. It's an episodic way of doing things. The reason people remember TTYD so much (and more than 64) isn't because unlike 64 you can press B to superguard. It's because it has so many interesting and charming self-contained scenarios. The fight mechanics are the cherry on top.
If TTYD was just your average "Bowser kidnaps Peach - beat up the Koopalings and save her" with fire world ice world jungle world bullshit, nobody would remember it.
Do the RPG mechanics contribute to this? Absolutely, but more in the sense that it makes you engaged in the adventure in a meta sense. Your characters get stronger, everything you do has a purpose.

You might argue that SPM isn't as well-remembered and that it could be because of the gameplay, but I think being 2D and looking like this hurt SPM more than not having RPG mechanics:

It's a bit too far from the Mario universe and the pixel looking characters don't help. You go from 2D level to 2D level rather than exploring a single 3D inhabited world.

 

[The Lawgiver]

It's a bit too far from the Mario universe and the pixel looking characters don't help. You go from 2D level to 2D level rather than exploring a single 3D inhabited world.

The 2d levels were kind of a mix of levels but also fast travel to different locations, kind of a mix up of the Super Mario Bros. Formula and the Paper Mario formula. The visuals in some of the areas are really striking and IMO still fall in line with the established Paper mario vibe, albeit in 2d with occasional 3d segments. The 2d/3d flip mechanic is so baked into the game that i don't think it could have worked as a 3d one.

I've never seen people forget about it, just say it's bad because it's not TTYD without ever even touching it or playing it. it's weird to me because I remember back in the day when it first dropped it was popular to the point you had weird shit like kinda popular Mario fan forum sites named after shit mentioned ONE TIME in the game but then a few years later opinion flipped so ridiculously severely the other way around to a cartoonish degree you could probably compare it to the game's flip mechanic. Gameplay wise I never really stopped finding it neat how the rpg mechanics got turned into a real time affair. Maybe it's because I knew it wasn't going to be every game afterwards that'd be like that?
Also agree about mario and luigi being great. They'd never pull something like what they did with the little shitbean fucker with big teeth speaking in broken english in the eternal current year, let alone make him a guy that goes through a character arc in the course of 3 games where he becomes the man villan of the 3rd one.

 

[Human Institute Director]

The visuals in some of the areas are really striking and IMO still fall in line with the established Paper mario vibe

I agree in the sense that I don't think what I said applies to all areas. But the Mario Bros like levels really disappear in your memory.

it's weird to me because I remember back in the day when it first dropped it was popular to the point you had weird shit like kinda popular Mario fan forum sites named after shit mentioned ONE TIME in the game

I'd say SPM spawned the more "really serious story driven Mario" trend with its more elaborate plot points and concepts, super serious lore in the forefront and so on. I'm fine with it but in moderation. My point isn't that SPM is bad or something, it's obviously far better than the slop we've gotten since, but the arcade gameplay wasn't really in line with the kind of story it tried to tell.

 

[The Fatriarchy]

it's trying to do the kinda shit undertale did with it's speech mumble somehow without understanding why that sounded good in that game. Paper Mario ALREADY had it's version of that with the text scroll noises that have become an iconic staple of the series so changing it to something that's aping something that's aping nintendo makes it really feel off on top of it being a more annoying variant of it.

Undertale didn't really invent that, though. In a way, I think even Nintendo's been doing that all along since Mario 64, but that's a weak argument considering it was just a single clip and not constant noise. Paper Mario was definitely always about the scribbly sounding beeps, but I wouldn't call it equivalent to voice noises either.

 

[0 0]

You might argue that SPM isn't as well-remembered and that it could be because of the gameplay, but I think being 2D and looking like this hurt SPM more than not having RPG mechanics:

Super Paper Mario has a lot of flaws relating to its worldbuilding, which I think causes it to be forgettable. The poor visual design plays into this. Honestly speaking, I mostly only remember the blatant padding the game has, a handful of decent jokes, and then the twist ending.

To me, the varying settings in SPM don't seem congruent with each other. A big thing is that it feels more like a random game with Mario slapped onto it, so it feels strange when you have vicious stick figures attacking you alongside a goomba. I know the criticism there's too many Toad characters in the modern games, but I think there's only one Toad in the entirety of SPM, and he exists for just one scene. Characters change design on a per-world basis, there's no interaction between characters from one world to the next, and it's extremely difficult to imagine anyone even living in the setting due to the fact the 2D presentation is written as an element of this universe. Cap it off with absolutely zero connection to the previous games and the bleak design of the entire world in the game as a whole, and it feels isolated and lonely. This could be a good thing, but it's clearly not the intent given the writing's general themes.

The setting just doesn't feel alive. PM64 had characters at least thanking you for helping them, with dialogue changing every new chapter. TTYD had you become progressively more famous among the NPCs as the game went on. But I don't think half the characters in SPM act like they're aware you exist.

 

[The Lawgiver]

there's no interaction between characters from one world to the next

I could have sworn Flint Cragley was a recurring guy as well as some other characters aside from the main bad guys, but I could be misremembering.

I don't think half the characters in SPM act like they're aware you exist.

Probably because they're supposed to be different isolated "worlds" with their own shit going on Mario stumbles into rather than places that'd be aware of him. Some characters are aware of your shit but a lot are just like "who is this plumber man?"
Still could have used a bit more interconnectivity, I agree on that.
Also what the hell are you talking about characters not thanking you for helping them that 100% happens in the game, haven't played it in years but still remember a decent amount of instances of that.

I agree in the sense that I don't think what I said applies to all areas. But the Mario Bros like levels really disappear in your memory.

For some people they do, yeah. I don't know why but thought the layouts aren't fully memorized 1 to 1 I could draw a decent approximation of the shit from memory probably.

Kind of wish the flipping stuff was a bit more than a puzzle/fight mechanic. Would have been really neat to have some areas in 3d as the default that swapped to 2d as well. The game's a sequel to 2 Paper Mario games that had 3d movement and the outdoor shot of Bowsers castle and some other places in the game tied to puzzles or level intros are still 3d-ish in that specific paper mario way. With the latter you need to do the flip mechanic that gradually hurts you after a period of time to see it though which kind of sucks.

 

[LiquidKid]

It's not just Vivian that needs to be modded, the entire script needs a do-over since it's overly sanitized compared to the original.

None of the other stuff bothered me. I didn’t consider it sanitized, just different choice of wordings, and they were lines I didn’t like in the original either

It also needs to have the voice chirps replaced with something that doesn't make me want to gouge my ears out.

Those grew on me, but they’re certainly annoying

 

[0 0]

Also what the hell are you talking about characters not thanking you for helping them that 100% happens in the game, haven't played it in years but still remember a decent amount of instances of that.

Maybe I don't remember because I don't think there's ever any reason to ever go back to a previous level. What stands out the most to me is a moment where a world gets outright obliterated and I don't think any inhabitants care when you restore it later.

 

[Human Institute Director]

None of the other stuff bothered me. I didn’t consider it sanitized, just different choice of wordings, and they were lines I didn’t like in the original either

It's absolutely sanitized, though.
You've got the standard nuts -> wild/whatever automatic replacement. It leads to some really awkward sentences like the second and third screen of:

You've got shit that doesn't make a lick of sense:

You've got sanitization of anything that involves women:

This latter one is pretty egregious, because the "skirt" line sells you on Don Pianta's personality much more than the "safe" version that replaced it.

For me this is way worse than the trans Vivian shit. The Vivian stuff is worrying because it shows the troons have a hold in Nintendo from Japan, enough to make these script changes for modern sensibilities. But it's only 2 or 3 lines. Meanwhile you've got dozens, hundreds (?) of these small changes and they add up.

 

[LiquidKid]

It's absolutely sanitized, though.
You've got the standard nuts -> wild/whatever automatic replacement. It leads to some really awkward sentences like the second and third screen of:

View attachment 6040137

You've got shit that doesn't make a lick of sense:

View attachment 6040144

You've got sanitization of anything that involves women:

View attachment 6040140

View attachment 6040145

This latter one is pretty egregious, because the "skirt" line sells you on Don Pianta's personality much more than the "safe" version that replaced it.

For me this is way worse than the trans Vivian shit. The Vivian stuff is worrying because it shows the troons have a hold in Nintendo from Japan, enough to make these script changes for modern sensibilities. But it's only 2 or 3 lines. Meanwhile you've got dozens, hundreds (?) of these small changes and they add up.

Eh, for me it’s all the same stuff anyway. I don’t consider any of it to be any different in tone than the original script. It was a pretty awkwardly worded game even back in the GameCube.
But to each their own

 

[The Lawgiver]

Maybe I don't remember because I don't think there's ever any reason to ever go back to a previous level. What stands out the most to me is a moment where a world gets outright obliterated and I don't think any inhabitants care when you restore it later.

After you restore that one they hold the tournament that got interrupted and you fight in it for real I think that's pretty cool.

 

[Human Institute Director]

Eh, for me it’s all the same stuff anyway. I don’t consider any of it to be any different in tone than the original script. It was a pretty awkwardly worded game even back in the GameCube.
But to each their own

I mean you can enjoy it, but it's objectively a sanitization procedure to make the dialogues corporate-safe, remove any "mean" word (fat, crazy...).

 

[Chin of Campbell]

Super Paper Mario's much-lauded story goes way too far into melodrama and puddle-deep emotional manipulation for my tastes, especially for a Mario game. The gameplay is basically nonexistent and the character design is genuinely awful.

The moment-to-moment dialogue still has that OG charm though, the music is good, and while the lack of real partners sucks, being able to play most of the game as the best Mario character not named Wario is a big win.

I think it's appropriate that Super is the game where Paper Mario flew too close to the sun and got burned. It absolutely deserves that assessment and the flak it catches.

 

[The Lawgiver]

the character design is genuinely awful

The character design is the same as the other paper Marios but it's a bit weirder looking in a 2d environment. Unless you're talking about the over use of the geometry and accordion rectangle arm thing going on in which case yeah I can see it, but I wouldn't say it's awful. it's just lacking in certain variety aspects that'd only get worse in later games when they responded to the criticism of the game with making every NPC a generic toad. At least Super Paper mario was going for some kind of style and had some interesting looking characters that actually use the geometry shit well like the recurring scottish wrestler joke boss.

EDIT: Come to think of it, the big "wii era" mario games have a weird amount of melodrama in them compared to stuff that came before and after.

 

[Gingervitis]

like the recurring scottish wrestler joke boss.

Hot take- I like the villains of Super Paper Mario more than Thousand Year Door. They might not be the most developed (save Bleck), but god damn it, they’re such an entertaining bunch

 

[Dynamite Bean]

Super Paper Mario is a game I want to like because it does ooze charm and Mimi is wife but my god is the gameplay aspect of the game so fucking awful, boring, not interesting, and it deliberately feels like it pads itself out for no reason other than to be a dick
i got to the last level of chapter 4 and haven't touched it then since I hear it doesn't get any better in the gameplay nor level design department and no story no matter how supposedly great is worth that kind of annoyance

 

[Human Institute Director]

Hot take- I like the villains of Super Paper Mario more than Thousand Year Door. They might not be the most developed (save Bleck), but god damn it, they’re such an entertaining bunch

Mimi is nice, I like that she's creepy.
I think my favorite chapter is the slavery one and the final one.