🐱 NRA in financial trouble

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CatParty
https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/04/us/nra-new-york-lawsuit/index.html


A lawsuit filed by the National Rifle Association says the gun advocacy organization will have to close its headquarters, shut down its online media presence and stop holding rallies and conventions if it is stymied by New York state from doing business with banks and insurers.

The NRA suit, filed in May and amended in July, says New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo is trying illegally to coerce financial companies into halting business relations with the group.
"Far from protected government speech, defendants' actions constitute an 'implied threat to employ coercive state power' against entities doing business with the NRA," the lawsuit says, employing a quote from a 2003 free speech case.
The NRA lost its insurance coverage from its provider in February when an entity of Lockton Companies dropped the organization.
"Lockton Affinity has notified the NRA that it will discontinue providing brokerage services for NRA-endorsed insurance programs under the terms of its contract," the insurance giant tweeted on February 26.
The NRA said it had spoken to other insurers to get corporate coverage, but said "nearly every carrier has indicated that it fears transacting with the NRA" in light of actions by New York authorities.
The organization is suing Cuomo, the state Department of Financial Services, and DFS Superintendent Maria Vullo.
"New York, we will not be intimidated by the NRA's frivolous lawsuit to advance its dangerous gun-peddling agenda," Cuomo has said.
Friday, he announced the state had filed a motion to dismiss the case. A hearing is scheduled for September 10.
In commenting about the NRA's financial claims in the updated version of the lawsuit, the governor said: "If I could have put the NRA out of business, I would have done it 20 years ago."
A lawyer for the NRA said Friday that New York officials are unfairly targeting First Amendment rights.
"We believe the filing is a misguided attempt to deflect from the fact that defendants overstepped their legal and regulatory authority -- to the detriment of the Constitution and New York insurance consumers," William A. Brewer III said.
The NRA alleges in its claim that it has incurred tens of millions of dollars in damages because of the defendants' actions. It says that the organization's access to banking services are "imperiled."
Lawsuit followed insurers being fined
The lawsuit, when it was originally filed in the US District Court for Northern New York, came days after the Department of Financial Services fined several insurance companies hundreds of thousands of dollars for participating in an NRA-backed liability insurance program for gun owners.
The state also secured agreements from those companies not to offer such insurance again.

The suit contends that what the state has done "prevents, or at a minimum, chills," the First Amendment rights of the NRA and its members to free speech -- including their right to speak freely about gun-related issues.
The suit alleges this amounts to a "blacklisting campaign (that) will continue to damage the NRA and its members" if the court doesn't act.
The Fairfax, Virginia-based NRA says it will not be able to function without access to banking services, which it needs to process gifts and other revenues as well as make payments.
"If the NRA is unable to collect donations from its members, safeguard the assets endowed to it, apply its funds to cover media buys and other expenses integral to its political speech, and obtain basic corporate insurance coverage, it will be unable to exist as a not-for-profit or pursue its advocacy mission," the court document says.
State urged banks, insurers to review NRA relationships
The claim also points to an April news release in which Cuomo called on the DFS to urge insurers and banks in New York "to review any relationships they may have with the National Rifle Association."
The release noted that a number of companies were ending relationships with the NRA -- including by ending special discounts or other special services for NRA members -- after February's shooting at a high school in Parkland, Florida, that left 17 dead.

In that same release, Vullo urged "all insurance companies and banks doing business in New York to join the companies that have already discontinued their arrangements with the NRA."
Vullo also sent letters to banks and insurers asking them to review any relationships with the gun lobby organization.
Focus on 'Carry Guard' insurance program
The lawsuit partly focuses on the state's crackdown on the NRA-branded "Carry Guard" program, which provides liability insurance for policyholders involved in shooting incidents.
The DFS has said the program violated state insurance law. It has argued the NRA publicized the program as something it created -- and the DFS asserts the NRA doesn't have a license to conduct insurance business in New York.
In early May, the DFS fined two insurers involved in the Carry Guard program.
The DFS said insurer Lockton Caos. LLC and its affiliate, Lockton Affinity LLC, agreed to pay a $7 million fine for administering the program.
Five days later, the DFS said insurer Chubb Ltd. and its subsidiary, Illinois Union Insurance Co., agreed to pay $1.3 million for underwriting the program.
Lockton also agreed to refrain from entering into any program "with the NRA to underwrite or participate in any affinity-type insurance program involving any line of insurance to be issued or delivered in New York state," with the exception of helping the NRA be insured for its own corporate operations.
Chubb and Illinois Union agreed to a similar prohibition.
 
Well, I'm open to compromise.

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I love guns more than the average person and I have given money to the NRA in the past but... I don't understand what they think the state actually did against them other than 1. suggest some companies reevaluate their relationship with the NRA (a lot of companies did this recently without government interference) and 2. End an insurance program protecting people involved in shooting incidents because they say it violates the law (how many people actually had this insurance? Can't be too many.)

As much as I love guns, I'm sick of the NRA. I wish there was another firearm advocacy group that wasn't them. They're so fucking soulless.

The NRA-ILA is actually a pretty important lobby group, not because of the money because you can almost bet with certainty somebody against guns (in a competitive race) will get more from larger anti-gun groups, but because it represents the desire of a large section of the population (if a little too softly most of the time). Maybe you live in a place where gun laws aren't under threat and don't see them at work, but overall if you like guns you probably should be part (not to mention it nearly pays for itself with the range discounts I get).

If you really hate the NRA, then the GOA has a bit more soul and is more of a Rand Paul kind of place. I agree with the GOA more strongly, but unfortunately they have less power.
 
I am reminded of this analogy.
Let's say I have this cake. It is a very nice cake, with "GUN RIGHTS" written across the top in lovely floral icing. Along you come and say, "Give me that cake the supreme court recently compelled a bakery in Colorado to make this cake for a pro-2A gay couple who demanded their right to bear arms not be curtailed by an anti-gun baker who is probably just a dirty homophobe guys."


I updated that for Current Year for you.
 
As much as I dislike some of the NRAs bullshit, I hate the idiot gun-grabbers more.

And honestly, looking at the lawsuit, the shit Cuomo is pulling is INCREDIBLY shady at best and some of it looks outright illegal.

He hasn't been "Suggesting" companies distance themselves from the NRA, he's been overtly threatening to target them with legislation if they don't.

It's government corruption and over-reach at its finest.
 
Another aspect is the 'no surrender' view now espoused by many gun owners and pro-2A types. They're not interested in any more compromises. They don't give a damn what the other side thinks. This is why 'reasonable background checks', whether they're reasonable or not, get tossed in the bin as well.
I'd be willing to compromise on universal background checks if the NFA is repealed. That and national constitutional carry.

The reason for the no surrender attitude is because we've been burnt by the Democrats before like the Hughes amendment and the awb. Diane Frankenstein has said if she had the votes for an outright ban on guns she'd have done it.

 
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I'd be willing to compromise on universal background checks if the NFA is repealed. That and national constitutional carry.

The reason for the no surrender attitude is because we've been burnt by the Democrats before like the Hughes amendment and the awb. Diane Frankenstein has said if she had the votes for an outright ban on guns she'd have done it.

The ironic, and more accurately, hypocritical thing about the gun control playbook is that its the exact same strategy that Democrats decry as evil and wicked, with a simple Replace All function run to replace "abortion" with "guns". They want to scream and tear their hair out about ever-increasing restrictions on abortion clinics, on ever more onerous requirements that all clinic closets have solid gold fittings, that this or that is a de facto ban on abortion for poor women that have to travel across the state and spend all this extra money and yadd yadda yadda. Then, without a single pause for breath they will spin around and try to explain away that putting additional fees and waiting periods and restrictions don't infringe on your second amendment right at all. I don't give a shit what your opinion on abortion is and it doesn't matter because you'd need to be blind not to see the rampant double standards.

Both of these incremental 'ratchet' strategies have the same end goal: the banning of legal abortion/gun ownership in a practical or de facto sense even if not de jure. You can already see the end of the tunnel in states like Hawaii or California where it is nigh impossible to obtain, keep, and bear firearms even in your own home. The politicians, the courts, and the police there will stop at nothing to contort, twist, and outright lie to advance their cause of complete civilian disarmament. Every year more restrictions are advanced, without even pretending to evaluation what previous laws did because the point is to keep restricting your rights, not achieving any legislative goal. Until, one glorious day in the future only the elite and privileged will benefit from arms thanks to their cadres of armed guards paid for and equipped with your tax dollars.

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Good, the NRA gives a bad name to gun owners and should be shut down

NRA TV is a riot though (for the wrong reasons)
 
The ironic, and more accurately, hypocritical thing about the gun control playbook is that its the exact same strategy that Democrats decry as evil and wicked, with a simple Replace All function run to replace "abortion" with "guns". They want to scream and tear their hair out about ever-increasing restrictions on abortion clinics, on ever more onerous requirements that all clinic closets have solid gold fittings, that this or that is a de facto ban on abortion for poor women that have to travel across the state and spend all this extra money and yadd yadda yadda. Then, without a single pause for breath they will spin around and try to explain away that putting additional fees and waiting periods and restrictions don't infringe on your second amendment right at all. I don't give a shit what your opinion on abortion is and it doesn't matter because you'd need to be blind not to see the rampant double standards.

Both of these incremental 'ratchet' strategies have the same end goal: the banning of legal abortion/gun ownership in a practical or de facto sense even if not de jure. You can already see the end of the tunnel in states like Hawaii or California where it is nigh impossible to obtain, keep, and bear firearms even in your own home. The politicians, the courts, and the police there will stop at nothing to contort, twist, and outright lie to advance their cause of complete civilian disarmament. Every year more restrictions are advanced, without even pretending to evaluation what previous laws did because the point is to keep restricting your rights, not achieving any legislative goal. Until, one glorious day in the future only the elite and privileged will benefit from arms thanks to their cadres of armed guards paid for and equipped with your tax dollars.

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Ironically the constitution never mentions abortion being protected yet weapons are clearly noted in the 2nd Amendment. Now I know our rights are natural and the constitution merely lists those natural rights.

Either way I support letting people abort their kids. We need less libtards walking around.
 
I'd be willing to compromise on universal background checks if the NFA is repealed. That and national constitutional carry.

We very nearly have universal background checks anyway unless you buy a gun from a friend or off craigslist in state
 
We very nearly have universal background checks anyway unless you buy a gun from a friend or off craigslist in state
I know. The art of the deal is that we give them something they think is a big thing in return for something that is a YUGE thing for us. Laugh all you want but the Donald knows his negotiating.
 
I know. The art of the deal is that we give them something they think is a big thing in return for something that is a YUGE thing for us. Laugh all you want but the Donald knows his negotiating.
Yes, and in normal circumstances that would work.

The problem is that gun owners have gotten jack and shit out of these compromises before, so now there's really no interest in talking. The response is typically 'Fuck you. No.'
 
This is likely a fundraising tactic, yes?

No, it's a legitimate complaint about the thuggish abuse of power being perpetrated by Cuomo and the state of New York and it should terrify the shit out of you even if you hate the NRA.

Why? Well, ask yourself-if this works, who is next? What business or organization or person will be extorted through extrajudicial means?
 
No, it's a legitimate complaint about the thuggish abuse of power being perpetrated by Cuomo and the state of New York and it should terrify the shit out of you even if you hate the NRA.

Why? Well, ask yourself-if this works, who is next? What business or organization or person will be extorted through extrajudicial means?
I agree about the threat but am wondering if it's a fundraising tactic anyway.

People who advocate thuggery like this rarely consider that it may be used against something they like one day. This despite seeing that very thing happen over and over.
 
Ironically, if the MSM would stop with the "NRA end near due to lack of funds!" virtue signalling every time they had a down quarter for donations, it might actually cease to exist on it's own, but by hilighting the problem, they just ensure it gets fixed....

Remember all those "NRA loses all its' sponsors!" after Parkland? How they drummed them up as proof gun control was right around the corner? And if you looked deeper, what they were really talking about was, like one airline discontinuing use of member perks, and someone else removing a donate button from a website? It's just like the anti-Trump nonsense, the constant cries from your opponents of "EBIL PEEPLES FINISEH!" are the best advertising you don't have to buy when they don't come true.

It's also telling how much certain politicians hate the NRA when taking millions from lobbyist groups that DON'T enjoy anywhere near as widespread public support doesn't upset them. When was the last time your average citizen donated to a banking lobby, or had a drug company lobby bumper sticker? It's the grassroots populist element of the NRA that other lobbys don't have that the likes of a California or New York Democrat absolutely despise as it's resisted all efforts to turn off the spigot by only opening wider....
 
I swear, after a few minutes this board turns into /pol/ light whenever guns or Trump are mentioned.
 
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