No Man's Sky - Minecraft with Adderall

[robobobo]

It shouldn't be at all overlooked that they said things about the game that weren't just untrue, but basically impossible. Things like the planetary mechanics and orbits, those weren't things that could have been true if they had a few more months to work, they weren't mostly-done features that had to get cut for time constraints. The demo footage they showed wasn't just a hand-picked planet that looked nice, it was all fake.

Yes, they did go above and beyond to fix their busted-ass game, they did eventually add many of the promised features, years later. Credit where credit's due, it's impressive that they stuck with it. But they weren't gee-whiz oops we accidentally sort of gave people the wrong idea, they were flatly lying about the state of the game, and they deserved the drubbing they got for it. They didn't deserve a bunch of aspies sending them bomb threats, but they deserved the criticism and poor reviews.

 

[Burning Fanatic]

It shouldn't be at all overlooked that they said things about the game that weren't just untrue, but basically impossible. Things like the planetary mechanics and orbits, those weren't things that could have been true if they had a few more months to work, they weren't mostly-done features that had to get cut for time constraints. The demo footage they showed wasn't just a hand-picked planet that looked nice, it was all fake.

Yes, they did go above and beyond to fix their busted-ass game, they did eventually add many of the promised features, years later. Credit where credit's due, it's impressive that they stuck with it. But they weren't gee-whiz oops we accidentally sort of gave people the wrong idea, they were flatly lying about the state of the game, and they deserved the drubbing they got for it. They didn't deserve a bunch of aspies sending them bomb threats, but they deserved the criticism and poor reviews.

Oh absolutely, they deserve all the criticism they had coming. There’s no arguing that. I just don’t see them as being a perfect example for future devs to take inspiration from, as far as intentionally lying to your customers and then slowly fixing up their product down the line. It’s simply not viable and highly likely to fail miserably along the way.

 

[ZMOT]

probably making future job opportunities much harder

you underestimate how fucking incestuous the industry is. setting up a new studio might be difficult, but not impossible. individually they would've easily found shelter somewhere else. and of course they also could've just taken the money (considering they made fucking millions) and chill somewhere for the rest of their lives. outside sean murray you probably don't even know who worked on it and would immediately buy their next game if it looks good.

Regardless of their intents, reasoning and such, in the end it still sends a message: YES you can lie to us, YES you can tell us in interviews mechanics and features are in the game despite not being there, YES you can release a buggy piece of shit, collect the money up front and then slowly fix it over time and there is a solid chance we will forgive you. It's basically the most scummy way to do "Early access".

oh fuck off. publishers didn't just decide one day to operate like that and the enlightened consumers were totally tricked and are poor victims. if they had even an inch of a spine EA and it's ilk would've been out of business a long time ago. I also like that you conveniently forget bethesda which has pulled that shit for years, but I guess that's ok because todd is le funny maymay XD.

also, context matters. EA pulling a stunt like that is on a completely different level than some blokes in the middle of bumfuck uk. which, as I said before, indicated to anyone with half a brain what the final game will look like, no matter what sean murray said. at a certain point it stops being MUH FRAUD and turns into an reminder how fucking stupid a lot of people are.

The key to a healthy industry and hobby is to be responsible consumers, and allowing companies to lie to their customers/potential customers is as irresponsible as it gets.

and that's why you buy the game for 20 quid years later when it's fixed. but I guess that's a crime too because if you don't deliver a 110% game at launch you're literally scum and never ever deserve to make another game or even breathe, context or circumstances be damned.

EDIT

Oh absolutely, they deserve all the criticism they had coming. There’s no arguing that. I just don’t see them as being a perfect example for future devs to take inspiration from, as far as intentionally lying to your customers and then slowly fixing up their product down the line. It’s simply not viable and highly likely to fail miserably along the way.

don't forget the effects it has on the person itself. it's not like every one who produced a bad game is connivingly grinning rushing off to the next ATM.

 

[Tad Loaf]

you underestimate how fucking incestuous the industry is. setting up a new studio might be difficult, but not impossible. individually they would've easily found shelter somewhere else. and of course they also could've just taken the money (considering they made fucking millions) and chill somewhere for the rest of their lives. outside sean murray you probably don't even know who worked on it and would immediately buy their next game if it looks good.

I don't totally disagree, but I think that's also not taking into consideration how much they put into the company already, and how much different being just another cog in a machine is compared to being one of a dozen in a smaller company, not to mention that there would absolutely be people keeping track of at least Sean if he tried to get into another gig.

oh fuck off. publishers didn't just decide one day to operate like that and the enlightened consumers were totally tricked and are poor victims.

I never said that, in fact that is the opposite of what I said, so I think we're in agreement? I said EA didn't start out a monster, they slowly became it over time because enough customers allowed them to get away with it.

if they had even an inch of a spine EA and it's ilk would've been out of business a long time ago. I also like that you conveniently forget bethesda which has pulled that shit for years, but I guess that's ok because todd is le funny maymay XD.

I'm not sure why you think I forgot about Bethesda, I also do not support them and recommend others don't as well. I'm not going to list every single shitty company when I only needed one for an example to make a point.

also, context matters. EA pulling a stunt like that is on a completely different level than some blokes in the middle of bumfuck uk. which, as I said before, indicated to anyone with half a brain what the final game will look like, no matter what sean murray said. at a certain point it stops being MUH FRAUD and turns into an reminder how fucking stupid a lot of people are.

I wasn't directly comparing EA and Hello Games, I was using EA as an example on how allowing bad business practices leads to companies growing more scummy.
None of that lessens the blow of a head dev lying about his game, multiple times in promo interviews. Yes customers should do their due diligents, I am someone who firmly believes it's the customers, not the companies, that decide the health of an industry. But companies lying is simply unacceptable and can not be allowed.

and that's why you buy the game for 20 quid years later when it's fixed. but I guess that's a crime too because if you don't deliver a 110% game at launch you're literally scum and never ever deserve to make another game or even breathe, context or circumstances be damned.

If you want to release a game in early access, then do it. If you want to release a game that won't have multiplayer for a year, then do it. The primary issue is the LYING.
If they said "Hey, the game is coming out next month, but it won't have multiplayer for a year" I wouldn't even be in this thread right now because I wouldn't care.
It is not hard to not lie about your product.

Also a friendly tip if you REALLY wanna buy something from a shitty company: Pirate it or buy it used. You won't support them and you can get whatever enjoyment from the product.

 

[Sanshain]

If you want to release a game in early access, then do it. If you want to release a game that won't have multiplayer for a year, then do it. The primary issue is the LYING.
If they said "Hey, the game is coming out next month, but it won't have multiplayer for a year" I wouldn't even be in this thread right now because I wouldn't care.
It is not hard to not lie about your product.

You are completely ignoring the role of marketing and publishers in this incident. We've seen first-hand just how heavily moderated and controlled developers are during their public appearances by their publishers. Just look at the mess that was Sword & Shield, with Nintendo execs sitting just off-camera and carefully monitoring every word that came out the employee's mouth.

Besides, as has been pointed out numerous times, the 'lying' is pretty highly debatable. 'Promising far too much' has a much better case, but saying they 'lied' is a bit absurd in context.

 

[Tad Loaf]

You are completely ignoring the role of marketing and publishers in this incident. We've seen first-hand just how heavily moderated and controlled developers are during their public appearances by their publishers. Just look at the mess that was Sword & Shield, with Nintendo execs sitting just off-camera and carefully monitoring every word that came out the employee's mouth.

So Sean isn't responsible for his own words during interviews? I'm not really sure where you're going with this, either way that simply isn't a valid excuse. It's not like he had some PR team twitting on his behalf being retarded, THEN you might have a leg to stand on.

Besides, as has been pointed out numerous times, the 'lying' is pretty highly debatable. 'Promising far too much' has a much better case, but saying they 'lied' is a bit absurd in context.

(Timestamped)

How is this anything other than flat out lying?

He even went so far as to lie post release, about two people meeting each other despite that never happening.
Where's the grey to this? What's to debate? That he has schizophrenia and genuinely believed it?

 

[ZehnBoat]

I see it more as an attempt to save their own asses,

and they did it the right way
they started to fix the game
FOR FREE

no taking the money and running
no WELL HERES ANOTHER GAME
no WELL HERES DLC THAT COSTS MONEY

they are fixing the game

the lesson you can take away here isn't "you can lie and run off"
that's how it USED to be, back when a game shipped and that was it
now it's "if your game is broken, you can fix it for free and get a shit ton of money and respect"

 

[Tad Loaf]

and they did it the right way
they started to fix the game
FOR FREE

They started to bring the game to the state they advertised it as from the start "for free" (and by for free you actually mean after millions of people gave them 60$)
What saints.

no taking the money and running
no WELL HERES ANOTHER GAME
no WELL HERES DLC THAT COSTS MONEY

Just because they didn't do literally the worst thing possible doesn't mean they aren't still scumbags.
"Well yeah he broke into my house and kicked my dog, but hey he didn't kill anyone! What a swell guy! Some other people would have committed murder!"

they are fixing the game

Yes, months/years after they collected millions in dollars from customers they lied to.

the lesson you can take away here isn't "you can lie and run off"
that's how it USED to be, back when a game shipped and that was it
now it's "if your game is broken, you can fix it for free and get a shit ton of money and respect"

That is not how it "used" to be, sure shit games were made in the past, but the average game was not released a broken mess you just had to deal with.
Why should you get money and respect for fixing a mess you created in the first place? How about we praise people who don't create messes to begin with?

Take CDP for example with Witcher 3: Great game with tons of content on release AND it got tons of free updates and DLC post launch. Those are the developers we should be giving money and respect to, not the people who skip the first part. Because...why? Why as a consumer would you be happy with someone shoveling shit on your plate because they'll add some spices to it later on? Shouldn't you get quality the same moment you give them your money?

In the end Sean lied, they released an unfinished game and you need to stop looking at companies as a charity, they don't care about you.

 

[Irrational Exuberance]

So Sean isn't responsible for his own words during interviews? I'm not really sure where you're going with this, either way that simply isn't a valid excuse. It's not like he had some PR team twitting on his behalf being exceptional, THEN you might have a leg to stand on.



https://youtube.com/watch?v=O5BJVO3PDeQ:964(Timestamped)

Since you've watched the video, I'm sure you're aware that Sean here has social anxiety disorder, so any interview is going to feel - at least partly - like an ambush that he wants to get out of as soon as possible. This includes agreeing with any damn thing that's being asked of him, without being able to calmly rationalize if the team can do it or not.

He's lying, obviously. He's also not acting rationally with regards to the situation being presented. Should this be an excuse for his actions? No, because other people's expectations were riding on the answers he provided, and he obviously let them down.

Rather, his mental condition should be taken into account in retrospect to what motivated him to lie so often - it wasn't meant to deceive, but to escape. He really needed someone to tell him to just shut the fuck up and write out an expected timeline of where the project was at currently and what could reasonably be expected within the timeframe he gave for himself, and then stick to it, no matter what else anyone asked or suggested.

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

It shouldn't be at all overlooked that they said things about the game that weren't just untrue, but basically impossible. Things like the planetary mechanics and orbits, those weren't things that could have been true if they had a few more months to work, they weren't mostly-done features that had to get cut for time constraints. The demo footage they showed wasn't just a hand-picked planet that looked nice, it was all fake.

Yes, they did go above and beyond to fix their busted-ass game, they did eventually add many of the promised features, years later. Credit where credit's due, it's impressive that they stuck with it. But they weren't gee-whiz oops we accidentally sort of gave people the wrong idea, they were flatly lying about the state of the game, and they deserved the drubbing they got for it. They didn't deserve a bunch of aspies sending them bomb threats, but they deserved the criticism and poor reviews.

Their company should have been shut down and their assets confiscated for their blatant fraud. Anybody stupid enough to defend them ought to get the guillotine.

Edit: "Mad at the Internet" = "I, the reader, am mad at you, the post-writer"

 

[melty]

So I started playing this game without any idea of the past drama. I've probably put in 10-12 hours, and it's mostly just been frustrating.
The game has a lot of glitches and I can't figure out when something is a glitch or I'm doing something wrong.
It's really slow to go anywhere. I land on a planet and it looks cool for about five minutes, but to go to anything interesting on the planet takes forever because everything on every planet is really far apart. I upgraded my running ability a bit, but it doesn't make much difference. Taking the spaceship around is a little clunky and it constantly needs launch fuel. I haven't gotten to building land vehicles yet, but from my understanding I'd need to build new ones on every planet anyway which isn't practical. I also tried riding creatures, which was clunky and still not too fast.
I'm constantly running out of either inventory or resources for critical things, which is usually connected because I delete things that don't seem important to make inventory space only to need them later. I've gotten some of the suit upgrades and a small amount of inventory slots, but it's not enough. Also the Galaxy map sucks.
I realize I'm about 4 years late here, but wanted to vent. I want to like the game because it seems cool and it's what my friends are currently playing. I didn't really have any expectations for this game, but it's largely been a frustrating experience.

 

[Guts Gets Some]

So I started playing this game without any idea of the past drama. I've probably put in 10-12 hours, and it's mostly just been frustrating.
The game has a lot of glitches and I can't figure out when something is a glitch or I'm doing something wrong.
It's really slow to go anywhere. I land on a planet and it looks cool for about five minutes, but to go to anything interesting on the planet takes forever because everything on every planet is really far apart. I upgraded my running ability a bit, but it doesn't make much difference. Taking the spaceship around is a little clunky and it constantly needs launch fuel. I haven't gotten to building land vehicles yet, but from my understanding I'd need to build new ones on every planet anyway which isn't practical. I also tried riding creatures, which was clunky and still not too fast.
I'm constantly running out of either inventory or resources for critical things, which is usually connected because I delete things that don't seem important to make inventory space only to need them later. I've gotten some of the suit upgrades and a small amount of inventory slots, but it's not enough. Also the Galaxy map sucks.
I realize I'm about 4 years late here, but wanted to vent. I want to like the game because it seems cool and it's what my friends are currently playing. I didn't really have any expectations for this game, but it's largely been a frustrating experience.

Interesting. I've heard all about how bad it was at launch, but now people say it's fixed and good now, but.... yeah, apparently not. Even if even after 4 years, it's not fun, then it's simply not fun. You're wasting time.

 

[Drain Todger]

NMS ran like shit on my old rigs, but on my new rig with the 3090 and with the newfangled DLSS support, it runs great!

I have some legacy items from a 4-year-old save that no longer exist, like an A-Class Fighter with 48/14 possible general/tech slots. I've also become quite addicted to the base-building. I have all the Exocraft and have even built a hangar for them. The Minotaur is fantastic for mining.

 

[Mooger Meng]

The Feb. 16 Sentinels update has some interesting changes. The three that have stood out the most so far:

- More Sentinel units. The basic drones still patrol the planets, but now when you raise the alarm (or attack secure facilities) there are several different models that spawn: repair drones, heavy(er) weapons drones with mortars or shotguns, and summoner assholes that will constantly replace destroyed units. There are also smaller walker units (hardsuits) modeled after the Minotaur that serve as a step between the Quads and the Walkers, which have motherfucking flamethrowers in addition to their machinegun lasers and mortars. Target prioritization is finally A Thing you need to worry about, and at high levels of alert, fighting Sentinels can get hectic a lot faster than you might think. Robots get flamethrowers before we get them back as multitool guns, Hello Games pls. I just wanna burn the universe down.

- Speaking of the Minotaur, there's a fancy new gubbin that gives it an autopilot, allowing it to follow you around if it's your current Exocraft. With the proper tools installed, it can assist you while you're mining and, more importantly, support you in combat. That's right, you can finally call in your big stompy robot like some budget Titanfall shit, and it's pretty cool, ngl. There's a small questline that's been added that will give you blueprints to slowly turn your Minotaur into a friendly Sentinel Hardsuit itself, with all of the guns that implies, and it's fucking neat and quite useful in the larger, more chaotic fights that happen now.

- But the best thing? It's now possible to punch the Sentinels in the robodick so hard that you temporarily deactivate them on the current planet. The hard way is to fight up to a level 5 alert and kill the Walker that spawns, or you can take the slightly easier route and find a Sentinel nest on the planet, either by random exploration or by a chart that can drop from Sentinels of all stripes. Once the nest is shut down, you can raid the node for some more of No Man's Sky's wonderfully fucked-up worldbuilding and a shot at a fancy new multi-tool (which you still have to pay for because Reasons™).

Some new gun stuff has been added or changed with the update's emphasis on combat, like the Pulse Splitter being affected by gravity now and having a mod to light shit on fire, the Plasma Launcher getting its self-damage reduced to like 10% so you don't accidentally blow yourself the fuck up if the grenade bounces wrong, stun grenades, and a new gun with a less stringent charge mechanic than the Blaze Javelin that performs like the Mega Buster in practice. Incidentally, playing some Wily Castle stage music in a big fight is 100% appropriate now while you're killing all the robots. Abandoned Memory from 10 is a good choice.
The core of NMS hasn't really changed, and probably never will, but it's still a little crazy to think about how much effort these dudes are putting in to turn around a spaceman shootman digman game that's nearly 6 years old.

 

[robobobo]

Yeah, it's a very good change since previously once you pissed off a sentinel they would come forever until you fucked off, there was no way to deal with them. Now you have access to a cloaking device to just hide until they get bored or you can facetank your way through a few waves to get them to stop, which also exposes some special sentinel loot. It's improvements across the board. Better weapons is also a strong positive, I don't know if even the buffs make the others compete against the supremacy of the scatter blaster, but the other weapons definitely needed a buff.

 

[Mooger Meng]

Yeah, it's a very good change since previously once you pissed off a sentinel they would come forever until you fucked off, there was no way to deal with them. Now you have access to a cloaking device to just hide until they get bored or you can facetank your way through a few waves to get them to stop, which also exposes some special sentinel loot. It's improvements across the board. Better weapons is also a strong positive, I don't know if even the buffs make the others compete against the supremacy of the scatter blaster, but the other weapons definitely needed a buff.

Haven't played with the improved Pulse Splitter yet, Blaze Javelin still isn't my jam, Scatter Blaster is probably still strong as shit since I don't think it got touched at all, Boltcaster is much like it was in the previous update (surprisingly decent in most cases), still no legit Incinerator. The new Neutron Cannon is an odd hybrid that fires single shots with a click or can charge for a shotgun-style blast that has gravity but seems to have a tighter spread at range than the Scatter Blaster; single shots are kind of piss weak but the burst is good with all S-rank mods, kills the larval horrors what good but doesn't seem as good vs. Sentinels as a souped-up Boltcaster, probably due to the spread. It might outperform Scatter Blaster at longer ranges thanks to the tighter shot pattern, the projectile arc isn't very steep.
Haven't done anything with the Cloaking Device, but I probably should at some point to see how it works. I've been having way too much fun calling in my Hardsuit Minotaur and punching Sentinels in the USB dongle until they leave me alone.

 

[ZMOT]

Yeah, it's a very good change since previously once you pissed off a sentinel they would come forever until you fucked off, there was no way to deal with them. Now you have access to a cloaking device to just hide until they get bored or you can facetank your way through a few waves to get them to stop, which also exposes some special sentinel loot. It's improvements across the board. Better weapons is also a strong positive, I don't know if even the buffs make the others compete against the supremacy of the scatter blaster, but the other weapons definitely needed a buff.

you just had to run into a building or dig a whole and wait up to a minute - which they also fixed apparently. I wonder if that also means monstrosities will now attack you underground too, so no more easy larval core farming.

also something to bookmark just in case: https://www.nomanssky.com/release-log/ since hello games still can't put patch notes on steam after 5 years.

 

[Mooger Meng]

you just had to run into a building or dig a whole and wait up to a minute - which they also fixed apparently. I wonder if that also means monstrosities will no attack you underground too, so no more easy larval core farming.

also something to bookmark just in case: https://www.nomanssky.com/release-log/ since hello games still can't put patch notes on steam after 5 years.

Dunno about the monstrosities, but the Sentinel hide-and-seek is still a little buggy, as one might expect. Usually if you're on a story or Nexus mission they'll follow you into a building and float around being stupid and not seeing you, but if you're just fucking around then they chase you inside and stay on alert.

 

[4090 Chad]

Is anyone still playing this game? I bought this recently after seeing the newest big update they released and I have been having a lot of fun exploring and grinding while slowly progressing the main story.

 

[The Ugly One]

I am. 50 hours in, I've barely unlocked anything for base-building and just have a freighter, a squadron with two fighters, and three frigates. You can really do nothing for hours and hours and hours in this game if you put your mind to it.